My Little Opinion

[Naralas]

To be honest, I can use Windows XP. Infact its familiar and I enjoy it. I am glad my parents computer still runs it because using the official, and hitch-free MSN is nice (every aMSN skin alive is ugly, and so are all the fonts it uses), and using Starcraft on B.net and a few old games of mine are always refreshing.

I refuse to support it on my laptop and to contribute to Windows-based communities anymore because I hate capitalism. The idea that we can claim everyone is equal one moment and then give the freedom to earn wealth by putting others down. An example being every large company in the world. They don't drive the cars they drive (by the way: down with driving!) because they deliver a quality product at a fair price. They drive the cars they drive because they deliver the closest thing to quality they can get away with selling, in the most cost effective (and often exploitive) ways, without ever putting the price below what they can force you to pay for it for there own personal gain. Practically everyone in business does it, in USA its dubbed "The American Dream" and much like rape and murder, it undermines equality. However while rape and murder are illegal, being rich at the expense of others (and there is no other way, other than perhaps winning the Heart and Stroke lottery, which could put MORE of the money towards the actual patients if you ask me)

I hate excess profit of all kinds. Being "able" to exploit others (or as some call it "making money") does not mean you have earned any right to do so. The people you exploit are not either simply not as heartless, not as capable or not as ruthless as you (none of which you should be proud of, because its okay to be less capable and its commendable to be either or both of the others, no mater what hollywood anti-hero's and much music / MTV tell you) anyway, skipping over the part where a few people might blindly call me a communist (which seems to be the only rebuttal I have ever received on these grounds and it fails to disprove that I am simply supporting freedom, and seems to also misunderstand communism)

Anyway, off my explanatory rant and onto my problem. Google makes money. Lots of money.
But google has all the same pullfactors as Windows XP. Accept unfortunatly, Google is as stable as Linux and even RUNS ON UBUNTU SERVERS :(

Sooo what can I do?
I love Google Docs and Spreadsheets, I love GMail, I like there new webhosting, there new groups, there blog programs, there webbased Google Talk which sits on your e-mail (I dont use all of the above but they are well done and slick!) and I do not see an alternative to such a lovely all-in-one.

If I simply do not click the ads or buy anything from them, and stop advertising Google to other people is that enough to say I don't support them? Or must I boycott them? I am looking for ethical guidance, and please understand that you are to stubborn to change my mind in the idea that Google is unethical, so all I am asking is, do I need to stop using there services and find a new e-mail host? And if so, what runs nice and smooth? And what are alternatives to Google Dos and Spreadsheets? :-k

Sorry if I am a little opinionated. Sorry if my post is a little long. I understand to alot of people my opinions seem a little backwards but I hope I can count on a little understanding and reasonability, after all this is a linux community :)

[aysiu]

So your question is... you think using Google isn't ethical, so what are alternatives?

[Naralas]

Ah sorry, yes what are the alternatives, or do I have a moral leg to stand on if I simply suck it up and stay with them?

[~LoKe]

Google isn't unethical because you're in no way required to use their services, and they're free of cost.

[Naralas]

They are free of cost, which is a great thing and makes it hard for me to not like them.. But they have become an advertising company. This bothers me. I have dim hopes for them. Staying afloat and living a comfortable life would be not only right but noble of the owners. Instead I see laggy servers and rich guys hiding from the world.

I am going to bed now cuz I have to get to school and help the buisness teacher debug some student web pages so I won't be replying much tonight. However I will catch up with my thread tommorow! please dont burry me!

[~LoKe]

They are free of cost, which is a great thing and makes it hard for me to not like them.. But they have become an advertising company. This bothers me. I have dim hopes for them. Staying afloat and living a comfortable life would be not only right but noble of the owners. Instead I see laggy servers and rich guys hiding from the world.

They're making money at no ones expense. I don't see this as being a problem. With their great income they're able to expand on their services. Do you think giving 3GB's of storage to everybody who uses GMail is cheap?

I'm all for what they're doing.

[K.Mandla]

Ah sorry, yes what are the alternatives, or do I have a moral leg to stand on if I simply suck it up and stay with them?
I've wondered the same thing many times. I object to their censorship of material at the behest of the Chinese government (which I have to admit, I haven't followed as closely as I should have, if I'm going to make a point of it). I still use Google, regardless of my opinion.

However, from my perspective, they seem to have gotten the message on that topic, and so I'm crossing my fingers that they might change their policy on that issue. I think that's what keeps me from ditching Gmail and all Google derivatives -- the hope that their stance will change.

It is a difficult question: If you object to a certain precept, but can't find a viable alternative, how can you abstain? I suppose the alternative is to make your opinions known to Google, and hope your influence can swing the company's opinion in turn.

[23meg]

There are alternatives, but the way Google made themselves the de facto standard of their field in a similar way to how MS did keeps most people from pursuing them.

[DoctorMO]

In my mind it is not so much that capitalism is bad but that like anything the abuse of capitalism is very bad indeed.

capitalism is a basic system which makes people honest at the expense of efficiency. that is why it's easier to do someone a favour at the small scale because it's too inefficient to use capitalism.

When you abuse capitalism; you create a compounded resource warping where large amounts of your capitalistic currency exist within the control of a few people. so long as everyone believes in and needs that currency, you can control them, what they do, how they do things and how large amounts of people and resources are used.

What is supposed to happen is that government is supposed to not be capitalistic, it is supposed to be a neutral arbitrator and defender which creates laws to protect people, including protecting people from capitalistic abuse.

The more involved your government is with capitalism at an industry level (not just instigating and controlling it) the more corruption is possible and the more the laws can be warped by the very same system that it is supposed to control.

I compare it to the way supper massive bodies like black holes effect nuetrios.

[firenewt]

Just use a google scrapper if you're that worried. There's a few other search engines out there too. They don't all find the same things.

[Naralas]

I agree with your opinions on capitolism DoctorMO, however I simply like to say "i hate capitolism" because what you say it should be is not really what it is today.

So I hate what it has become.

[Brunellus]

I agree with your opinions on capitolism DoctorMO, however I simply like to say "i hate capitolism" because what you say it should be is not really what it is today.

So I hate what it has become.
Living in the Washington, DC area--and thus within striking distance of a federal and two state capitals, I know a thing or two about capitols. I hadn't noticed any -isms endemic to any of the capitols which are in any of the capitals (DC, Richmond, or Annapolis--take your pick).

Free Software is no more or less compatible with the system of capitalism and free markets than Free Speech or Free Assembly. Industrialization drove costs down and productivity up through a reorganization of the factors of production: as it was for cotton textiles, so let it be with software.

[meng]

Free Software is no more or less compatible with the system of capitalism and free markets than Free Speech or Free Assembly. Industrialization drove costs down and productivity up through a reorganization of the factors of production: as it was for cotton textiles, so let it be with software.
Hear hear. If hatred of capitalism drives you to use Linux, then I won't question your motives, but there are many other reasons that drive other people to use Linux. And ultimately it's difficult to escape reliance in some fashion on one of the bastions of capitalism in today's world.

[IYY]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making money. No matter what your ideals are, it is simply impossible to own a powerful and successful company and not have it make any money; success is measured with money in this society. Google makes money ethically, without harming anyone, and by providing a free service to the world.


Google is as stable as Linux and even RUNS ON UBUNTU SERVERS

As far as I know, Google does not run on Ubuntu servers. It does run on GNU/Linux servers, though I am not certain which distribution it is (possibly their own heavily customized Linux). What Google uses Ubuntu for is the desktop OS for their employees.

[DoctorMO]

No problem with making money, unfortunately there seems to be a corruption of what money really is at the end of the day.

Free and Open Source Software don't conflict with capitalism, because anyone can make money from what they do. FOSS is a system to keep programmers, companies and users honest and it does a pretty good job.

When someone invented the idea of owning ideas, we invented the idea of owning ideas and making sure that everyone can use them.

[Handssolow]

I suppose it's a question of balance. Does Bill Gates who stated that he wanted every PC to be running his Windows OS represent a balanced position or is he someone who then wants to exploit his company's dominant and controlling position in the market? Unfortunately Microsoft's market behaviour has demonstrated that they have wanted to eliminate any significant competitor.

The home computer is a complicated machine and most owners are easy meat for Bill's company.

I'm more like indigestible tough leather and my guess is that those on this Forum are just as tough.

[steven8]

There is nothing wrong with making money. I have to make money to survive. However, money can be like a drug for some. A drug addict will sell their loved ones for a fix if they get too deep. That is where capitalists get the evil eye. There are the 'money junkies', the general population believe will more than gladly 'f' you over to 'get their fix'. Some may gladly do that, some may not, but it's the ones who will that will stand out in the minds of others, and taint the image of those who won't.

The communist manifesto reads as one of the most sane ideas I've ever read, but do people see the word communist, and think, "There goes a fine fellow!" Very few see the word capitalist and thinks, "There goes a fine fellow!" Why is that? because the actions of the ones who use and abuse the ideas are the ones who stand out.

[ciscosurfer]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making money. No matter what your ideals are, it is simply impossible to own a powerful and successful company and not have it make any money; success is measured with money in this society. Google makes money ethically, without harming anyone, and by providing a free service to the world.

As far as I know, Google does not run on Ubuntu servers. It does run on GNU/Linux servers, though I am not certain which distribution it is (possibly their own heavily customized Linux). What Google uses Ubuntu for is the desktop OS for their employees.I have seen this many places (use of Ubuntu internally by Google employees). Here is a (very) quick summary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goobuntu).