Are the bittorrent anime downloads legal?

[finferflu]

Hi, I was just wondering whether the anime episodes (usually in mkv format) available for download on bittorrent websites (bittorrent, isohunt, and so on) were legal for download. Is there anyone who knows?

[Sluipvoet]

They're only legal if the copyright owners allow it, so most of them are pretty illegal.

[finferflu]

And how do you know whether the copyright owners allow it?

[Sluipvoet]

If it's commericial media, than there's a 99% change it will not be allowed.
You really have to search for alternative artists who will allow such a thing(Creative Commons,...)

[finferflu]

whoops sorry, I've misread your previous post, I've read legal instead of illagal, that's why I asked, I wanted to be sure everything was ok, since I was very suspicious.

Thank you. I've asked this question since I've seen there's a very large use of them.

[darkninja]

Illegal but mostly unenforced.

Most fansub groups "drop" a series once it become licensed for US distribution, though nowadays less and less of them are opting to do that ;-)

[Engnome]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fansub#Legal_and_ethical_issues covers the issue pretty good.

[finferflu]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fansub#Legal_and_ethical_issues covers the issue pretty good.

Very useful, thanks!

[frodon]

I depends of the anime, most of japan animes don't have license or only in japan.

There's plenty of anime sites which will tell you if the anime have a license in your country or not.

So if you're talking about japan anime and if you're located in UK (from what i see in you profile) then most of the anime should be free to download in your country. If the team that makes the sub-titles give links to download the anime in their site then the anime is free to download.

[finferflu]

I see, that's very interesting. Could you point me out some useful link? I am not looking for any anime in particular, I am just curious about how this works. I'm asking you links because I don't want to end up in hentai, porn-related, commercial or illegal stuff.

Thank you!

[frodon]

Here is for example one of the biggest english fansub team but it's not the only one :
http://www.shinsen-subs.org/

Sorry for not providing you more links but i'm more used to french fansub teams because i'm french.

[pmj]

Just because something isn't licensed in your country doesn't mean it's legal to download it. It's still copyrighted, and copying it without having explicit permission to do so is copyright infringement and very much illegal.

[frodon]

Just because something isn't licensed in your country doesn't mean it's legal to download it. It's still copyrighted, and copying it without having explicit permission to do so is copyright infringement and very much illegal.Do you know what you're talking about ?

Japan anime is special case and just a very few of them aren't free to download in europe, the fansub-teams are really well known and always respect the laws otherwise the site get closed quickly and trust me they are watched.

[pmj]

Japanese anime isn't any different from Japanese books or Japanese live action films or Japanese music. It's covered by copyright and international treaties, and just because producers of anime generally turns a blind eye to copying of their works in the west doesn't make it OK to copy them, at least not in a legal sense. And that, I think, was the question the starter of the thread was asking, not if the FBI would haul him off to pirate jail by request of an anime studio.

[beefcurry]

This was covered ..in alot of detail, for alot of times. IT IS ABSOLUTELY ILLEGAL! But** distributors dont care (until it gets lisenced by a american company).

more info here on lisenceing: http://animesuki.com/doc.php/licensed/

[frodon]

This was covered ..in alot of detail, for alot of times. IT IS ABSOLUTELY ILLEGAL! But** distributors dont care (until it gets lisenced by a american company).

more info here on lisenceing: http://animesuki.com/doc.php/licensed/
Well, statements like this are useless if you're not a lawyer in your country.

What i can say you is that there's nothing in the law in my country and that big companies always try to get money where they can't. Maybe one day this will be put in details in the law of my country but for the moment it isn't and then even if some companies concider this as illegal the law of my country say nothing and thus there's no official illegal status on this topic.

However i can only speak for my country and i don't know the laws in yours so you may be right in your case, i honnestly don't know.

[beefcurry]

frodon, i may not be a lawyer, i might sound abit cocky but...

http://animesuki.com/doc.php/licensed/ clearly says:
"We have to admit it: the distribution of fansubs is technically a violation of copyright under the WTO TRIPS agreement."

its more indetail here: "http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=951"

and france is infact a signed member of the WTO TRIPS agreement, source here: http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/org6_e.htm

"France has been a WTO member since 1 January 1995. It is a member State of the European Union (more info). All 25 EU member States are WTO members, as is the EU (for legal reasons known as the European Communities in WTO matters) in its own right."

if you want a overview of the trips agreement: http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/trips_e/intel2_e.htm

arguing that much back in model united nations sure made me learn a thing or two about intellectual property rights :)

[frodon]

Honnestly this discussion don't interest me and i'm truelly not an expert, you stated it's illegal everywhere and i just answered you back that it isn't in my country (i mean anime without license) and thus your statement were not exact, that's all.

Now you can show me the theory, the fact is that this specific purpose don't have a clear illegal status in many countries.

[beefcurry]

basicly i said just then in my post above that it is illegal IF your country signed the WTO (world trade organization) TRIPS agreement. I see from your profile you come from France. and FRANCE is part of the WTO and signed the TRIPS agreement. There may not be a domestic law but under international law it is illegal to download (distribute copyright information) anime in france. Thus your country. My point was that it is illegal in your country if you didn't know.

And also, yes i may have been wrong, out of 192 countries in the world only 149 have signed the treaty, so yes not EVERYWHERE, (full list of countries: http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/org6_e.htm ). You are right not everywhere, but most places, that includes the WHOLE of EU, North America etc. If your country is NOT in the WTO list there is also a HIGH probability you have a domestic LAW that stops you from distributing copy right infomation. So yes, i may be exaggerating when i say EVERYWHERE.

[frodon]

basicly i said just then in my post above that it is illegal IF your country signed the WTO (world trade organization) TRIPS agreement. I see from your profile you come from France. and FRANCE is part of the WTO and signed the TRIPS agreement. There may not be a domestic law but under international law it is illegal to download (distribute copyright information) anime in france. Thus your country. My point was that it is illegal in your country if you didn't know.

And also, yes i may have been wrong, out of 192 countries in the world only 149 have signed the treaty, so yes not EVERYWHERE, (full list of countries: http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/org6_e.htm ). You are right not everywhere, but most places, that includes the WHOLE of EU, North America etc. If your country is NOT in the WTO list there is also a HIGH probability you have a domestic LAW that stops you from distributing copy right infomation. So yes, i may be exaggerating when i say EVERYWHERE.This is pure theory and i'm not going to argue on this.

The FACT is that there's no clear illegal status in my country, end of the story.

[beefcurry]

This is pure theory and i'm not going to argue on this.

The FACT is that there's no clear illegal status in my country, end of the story.

If you don't want to argue on this please read what i actually said, to prove its not theory i already included links to show why the actual LAW where it says its illegal. It is NOT legal in France. Im doing this so you won't be mislead into trouble.

It states its illegal in the WTO TRIPS agreement. If you want to see the law: http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/trips_e/intel2_e.htm#copyright

And FRANCE has signed the WTO TRIPS agreement meaning it is infact french law now! If you don't believe me you can see the "France" on the WTO members list: http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/org6_e.htm

That is the WTO official website, so in fact, it is not theory but fact. you might think its safe in your country because enforcement is weak, but it is not legal in france. Please actually read my posts because i have said all of this before. It is a serious matter and people maybe jailed because they do not know what is legal and what is not so please actually read to what people say.

edit -

you seem to not know english well. heres the french version of the law: http://www.wto.org/french/tratop_f/trips_f/intel2_f.htm

[frodon]

Ok, if you don't want to hear me when i say you it's a fact so i give up with you, maybe you know better my country than me :rolleyes:

[Wolki]

Ok, if you don't want to hear me when i say you it's a fact so i give up with you, maybe you know better my country than me :rolleyes:

Wikipedia seems to disagree with you. All quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_copyright_law


The criterion for protection of a work under French copyright law is that it be an œuvre d'esprit, a work of the mind (Art. L112-1). Hence there must be a human intellectual contribution to the work.

For these protected works, the author has some proprietary rights:


The proprietary rights of the author allow him or her to exploit the work for financial gain. The author has the right to authorize the reproduction of the work (droit de reproduction) and to allow its public performance (droit de représentation): he or she may also prevent the reproduction or public performance.

So unless the author has allowed reproduction by fansub groups, it's not allowed.

There are some exceptions:


1. Private family perfomances.
2. Copies for the private and personal use of the copier. This provision does not apply to works of art, computer programs (where a single safeguard copy is allowed, Art. L122-6-1-II) and databases.
3. In cases where the name of the author and the source are clearly indicated,

a) Analyses and short citations justified by the critical, polemical, scientific or pedagogical nature of the work.
b) Press reviews.
c) Diffusion of public speeches as current news.
d) Reproductions of works of art in catalogues for auctions in France (subject to regulatory restrictions).

4. Parody, pastiche and caricature, "taking into account the usage of the genre".
5. Acts necessary to access a database within the limits of the agreed use.

But "Animation works created in Japan not licensed for distribution in France" is not among them.

Obviously, wikipedia might be wrong, so if you're sure you might want to clarify it there?

Regardless, fansubbing tends to be tolerated in most countries since the japanese companies don't care enough about it to litigate internationally, and only the copyright holder can sue for violation. This does not mean it's legal, just de facto tolerated.

[beefcurry]

Ok, if you don't want to hear me when i say you it's a fact so i give up with you, maybe you know better my country than me :rolleyes:

Just maybe I do, Please if you can, provide me with the actual French Law that says I can download copyrighted anime legally without paying any royalties. If you do, i will immigrate to france happily.

Right now it seems to me i provided you with the law that says its not legal. (looks at posts above)

Fact or Fiction? France is part of the EU?

If you think it is, you may read the EU copyright laws: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_European_Union

and in it says
"No exceptions are specifically provided for under European Union law.". Which means for your fact* to exist France must not be part of the European Union!

Well i did do some research on french copyright law just now, it seems anime does fit under as what is copy righted


The criterion for protection of a work under French copyright law is that it be an œuvre d'esprit, a work of the mind (Art. L112-1). Hence there must be a human intellectual contribution to the work.

Well i suppose you CAN download legally according to this law


The general rule is that the proprietary rights of the author last for seventy (70) years after his or her death
But i have never seen an anime over 70 years yet. . . . (quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_copyright_law)

Just to clear some things up for you;)

[frodon]

Regardless, fansubbing tends to be tolerated in most countries since the japanese companies don't care enough about it to litigate internationally, and only the copyright holder can sue for violation. This does not mean it's legal, just de facto tolerated.That don't mean it's illegal which was just my point and that milions of guys use distribute, maintain official sites in my country which wouldn't be possible if it was fundamentally illegal.
What you said however is true, it's more tolerated than fully legal.

@beefcurry, if you're willing to concider what i say i may agree to answer your post but not if you take it that way.

[beefcurry]

Well i suppose its like smoking marijuana or taking drugs. As long as the government dosnt catch you, its legal :).


it's more tolerated than fully legal.

That sums it up nicely, as long as the Japs don't start sueing the Government wont start caring.

[frodon]

Well i suppose its like smoking marijuana or taking drugs. As long as the government dosnt catch you, its legal :).

That sums it up nicely, as long as the Japs don't start sueing the Government wont start caring.No don't say what i didn't say.

I said that it's neither legal nor illegal for the moment in my country, you can download without being conciderated as a pirate in regards to the law, it's what i mean.

Sorry if wasn't enough clear in my previous posts, after reading them again i think my purpose wasn't clear.

[John.Michael.Kane]

This thread only serves to start arguments on an issue that is based on the laws of ones country.

Thread closed