I would really like to see as a default application...

[n3rdism]

In the next release I would really love to see LMMS and Kino as default applications with the operating system. I think it will attract some new types of people to the linux world. Especially when they see the price of Kino vs. other DV editters.. say, final cut?

What is everyone else' thoughts and opinions on these 2 programs and my idea?
And where might we make a proposal for this to devs?

[taurus]

Move to Cafe.

[23meg]

LMMS is more suited to being in Ubuntu Studio (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=128). I disagree about Kino as well; it's already in the repositories and easily installable.

Especially when they see the price of Kino vs. other DV editters.. say, final cut?Kino is a very simple editor intended for a different audience, and is nowhere close to Final Cut in terms of features.

[TheWizzard]

firefox & freemind, i would say.
but it's no big deal because of the repo's. keeping everything on one cd is far more important.

[lyceum]

I would love to see Aptana added.

[KoRnholio]

I don't think any video editor will ever be a default application, except for in Ubuntu Studio.

It just takes up too much space, for the % of Ubuntu users that need it. They want to continue releasing Ubuntu as ISOs that fit on one cd, and they don't really have a bunch of free space as it is.

They could use some more video apps in the repositories, though. That'll come with time. Plus, with all the work the Ubuntu Studio people are doing, it should be easier to get a lot of these more obscure video editors into mainline repos.

[M7S]

iirc, kino is a default application in edubuntu.

[dbbolton]

I would love to see Aptana added.
second that

[dbbolton]

ooh also, i prefer thunderbird to the default evolution.

is wine default ?

[23meg]

I would love to see Aptana added.Adding a 70mb binary which is only of use to a very small percentage of the Ubuntu user base, to the disk image whose maximum size would be 700mb? Think again.

Just because you use something often doesn't mean it should be in the default Ubuntu installation; sane defaults have to be considered taking a massive range of use cases into account, not just yours. If you want a distro that fits your exact use cases with its defaults, with little or no post-install configuration, make it yourself. Reconstructor is easy to use. Forcing changes for your particular use cases into Ubuntu's defaults makes no sense.

This isn't addressed to you personally; I see this kind of comment coming up very often (the original post is another example) and people have to understand that Ubuntu, just like every other "major" distro, is trying to cater for a very broad audience, and you can only please part of any such audience with any set of defaults.

[lyceum]

Adding a 70mb binary which is only of use to a very small percentage of the Ubuntu user base, to the disk image whose maximım size would be 700mb? Think again.

Just because you use something often doesn't mean it should be in the default Ubuntu installation; sane defaults have to be considered taking a massive range of use cases into account, not just yours. If you want a distro that fits your exact use cases with its defaults, with little or no post-install configuration, make it yourself. Reconstructor is easy to use. Forcing changes for your particular use cases into Ubuntu's defaults makes no sense.

This isn't addressed to you personally; I see this kind of comment coming up very often (the original post is another example) and people have to understand that Ubuntu, just like every other "major" distro, is trying to cater for a very broad audience, and you can only please part of any such audience with any set of defaults.

Yeah, but if those that do want it never speak up, we will never see it. There are how many programs available that I don't use, and I am sure that everyone that uses Ubuntu doesn't use EVERYTHING that comes default on their PC. And I guess I don't really want it default, I want it in add/remove. For default, I just want to take off things I don't use with add/remove. I am sure that Ubuntu would still work if I took a few of the games off that come default. Anyhow, if Ubuntu were to add a default web editor Aptana would be a good choice, unless it should be a WYSIWYG, then I guess it would have to be Nvu.

Just FYI... Aptana was introduced to my class this past quarter and a lot of my classmates switched from Dreamweaver to Aptana, including the professor, an avid Windows user that thinks FOSS is a waist of time. He used Linux and Bluefish in the past, and had nothing good to say. He felt that FOSS was always on step behind the rest of the world. I guess part of the reason I like Aptana is because it proved him wrong and intoduced the class to a new world of software. It is currently still in beta, so if it is that good, why not add it in? But I am sure the are others with similar stories about other programs...

[23meg]

You don't seem to be getting the essence of what I'm saying at all.

Yeah, but if those that do want it never speak up, we will never see it.Please, let's never see it as a default app. Let that time never come. The time that something like Aptana ships as a default app with Ubuntu will be the time Ubuntu will be governed by people who have no idea how to put together a distro, or a time when it's completely turned into a specialist distro. I don't want either happening; most likely neither do you.

There are how many programs available that I don't use, and I am sure that everyone that uses Ubuntu doesn't use EVERYTHING that comes default on their PC.True, that's why default apps are always a compromise. As I said, you can never please the whole audience with ANY set of default apps. People will always add and remove. We all have different needs, habits, preferences and will customize the OS to our liking, and this will be valid with ANY given set of defaults. What matters in a distro with a heterogenous audience like Ubuntu is to find the most reasonable balance that will provide somehow sane (not completely suitable) defaults to the greatest amount of people possible, and that's always going to be a compromise.

Any set of defaults is a compromise, by definition.

And I guess I don't really want it default, I want it in add/remove. But this thread is about default applications. Adding something as a default app, only adding it to Main and adding it to Universe would be whole different things to ask for. You have to be specific about what you're asking for; when you say "I'd like Aptana added" in a thread about default applications, what's to be understood is that you want Aptana included on the CD, installed by default, made part of Main and thus supported with security fixes for the length of the distro's support period.

Supporting something as early in development and as sophisticated as Aptana would be quite a burden, the 70mb size would bring a huge disk space problem, and yet the benefits are very little for the user base. Plus, since it depends on Mozilla and libswt3.1-gtk-java, both of which are in Universe, they'd have to be installed by default and supported as well, adding another 12mb of required disk space and more maintenance burden. Not to mention that shipping both Mozilla and Firefox is very much against Ubuntu's one app per task principle.

For default, I just want to take off things I don't use with add/remove. I am sure that Ubuntu would still work if I took a few of the games off that come default.You can do that; you can even use Reconstructor to make your own Ubuntu with your custom set of packages.

Anyhow, if Ubuntu were to add a default web editor Aptana would be a good choice, unless it should be a WYSIWYG, then I guess it would have to be Nvu.No no no. Aptana is far beyond a simple web editor; it's a whole IDE. Even if Ubuntu were to include a default web editor, and I don't think it ever will, Aptana still wouldn't be the ideal choice. A simpler editor with far less features, that's more stable and takes up less space would be the ideal choice.

Just FYI... Aptana was introduced to my class this past quarter and a lot of my classmates switched from Dreamweaver to Aptana, including the professor, an avid Windows user that thinks FOSS is a waist of time. He used Linux and Bluefish in the past, and had nothing good to say. He felt that FOSS was always on step behind the rest of the world. I guess part of the reason I like Aptana is because it proved him wrong and intoduced the class to a new world of software. It is currently still in beta, so if it is that good, why not add it in?Again, how good you may think or some professor may think Aptana is is completely beside the point. I too prefer Aptana to Dreamweaver and just about anything else out there, but this has nothing to do with Aptana being a default app. For Aptana to be a default app, a considerable part of Ubuntu users would have to be doing web development (note that I'm not saying web design). This is simply not the case, and won't be in the forseeable future.

A distro in which Aptana would make more sense would be the recently suggested Ubuntu deveoper edition (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=304662). It's a specialist distro intended for a specialized audience. Face it: the amount of people that rip CDs, browse web pages and send email is thousands of times greater than the number of people who develop websites.

[lyceum]

You don't seem to be getting the essence of what I'm saying at all.
Please, let's never see it as a default app. Let that time never come. The time that something like Aptana ships as a default app with Ubuntu will be the time Ubuntu will be governed by people who have no idea how to put together a distro, or a time when it's completely turned into a specialist distro. I don't want either happening; most likely neither do you.
True, that's why default apps are always a compromise. As I said, you can never please the whole audience with ANY set of default apps. People will always add and remove. We all have different needs, habits, preferences and will customize the OS to our liking, and this will be valid with ANY given set of defaults. What matters in a distro with a heterogenous audience like Ubuntu is to find the most reasonable balance that will provide somehow sane (not completely suitable) defaults to the greatest amount of people possible, and that's always going to be a compromise.

Any set of defaults is a compromise, by definition.
But this thread is about default applications. Adding something as a default app, only adding it to Main and adding it to Universe would be whole different things to ask for. You have to be specific about what you're asking for; when you say "I'd like Aptana added" in a thread about default applications, what's to be understood is that you want Aptana included on the CD, installed by default, made part of Main and thus supported with security fixes for the length of the distro's support period.

Supporting something as early in development and as sophisticated as Aptana would be quite a burden, the 70mb size would bring a huge disk space problem, and yet the benefits are very little for the user base. Plus, since it depends on Mozilla and libswt3.1-gtk-java, both of which are in Universe, they'd have to be installed by default and supported as well, adding another 12mb of required disk space and more maintenance burden. Not to mention that shipping both Mozilla and Firefox is very much against Ubuntu's one app per task principle.
You can do that; you can even use Reconstructor to make your own Ubuntu with your custom set of packages.
No no no. Aptana is far beyond a simple web editor; it's a whole IDE. Even if Ubuntu were to include a default web editor, and I don't think it ever will, Aptana still wouldn't be the ideal choice. A simpler editor with far less features, that's more stable and takes up less space would be the ideal choice.
Again, how good you may think or some professor may think Aptana is is completely beside the point. I too prefer Aptana to Dreamweaver and just about anything else out there, but this has nothing to do with Aptana being a default app. For Aptana to be a default app, a considerable part of Ubuntu users would have to be doing web development (note that I'm not saying web design). This is simply not the case, and won't be in the forseeable future.

A distro in which Aptana would make more sense would be the recently suggested Ubuntu deveoper edition (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=304662). It's a specialist distro intended for a specialized audience. Face it: the amount of people that rip CDs, browse web pages and send email is thousands of times greater than the number of people who develop websites.

Wow! you seem to take this very personally. I am sorry that my 2 cents caused you so much pain and anguish. I will try to read better in the future and keep my thoughts to myself if they hurt you that much. I don't really see why a web design program by default would be such a bad thing, but if you say so, I guess you can give your two cents.

Also, sorry for going off topic.

In the end, I guess we have 2 different views. Just for the record, I really don't know very much about how much space and all that. I am still learning about how this stuff works. You may want to calm down a bit before posting in the future. Again, just my 2 cents. It's a free world and you are more than welcome to vent and rant if it helps you sleep better at night. Just try to keep in mind that not all of us know as much as you about PCs and Linux. :-D

[teet]

In the next release I would really love to see LMMS and Kino as default applications with the operating system. I think it will attract some new types of people to the linux world. Especially when they see the price of Kino vs. other DV editters.. say, final cut?

What is everyone else' thoughts and opinions on these 2 programs and my idea?
And where might we make a proposal for this to devs?

LMMS might be a bit of a stretch, but a simple video editor doesn't seem unreasonable to me. After all, even good old Windows XP comes with Windows Movie Maker by default (which, might I add, is actually a decent program).

With that said, I do really like the fact that the ubuntu fits on 1 CD. It was actually one of the things that attracted me.

Note: I had to google "LMMS" and "kino" because I had no idea what they were!

-teet

[23meg]

Wow! you seem to take this very personally. I am sorry that my 2 cents caused you so much pain and anguish. I will try to read better in the future and keep my thoughts to myself if they hurt you that much. I'm not hurt personally or whatever; why should I be? One just needs to have an essential understanding of sensible defaults when talking about them; you seemed to lack it and that's what I addressed.


I don't really see why a web design program by default would be such a bad thing, but if you say so, I guess you can give your two cents. You didn't seem to see why it would be bad to include Aptana, and I tried to make you see it. Please read better and you'll see that I wasn't against having a web design program by default but against having Aptana in particular.

To rephrase, Aptana isn't your average HTML editor, it's far richer in features; it's an IDE. If a general use distro such as Ubuntu were to have a simple web design (again, not web development) app for casual use largely by non-technical users, Aptana still wouldn't be the ideal choice.


In the end, I guess we have 2 different views. Just for the record, I really don't know very much about how much space and all that. I am still learning about how this stuff works.That's obvious, but it's not something bad; if you can't bear being corrected when you're wrong or don't want someone to go against your views on the basis of lack of information, you should think again about posting to forums, or even taking part in any public discussion. Being wrong, making mistakes is a great way to learn; it's not something to take offense at.


You may want to calm down a bit before posting in the future. Again, just my 2 cents. It's a free world and you are more than welcome to vent and rant if it helps you sleep better at night. I am quite calm. There are no offensive statements in any of my posts. I'm certainly not trying to vent; I'm addressing a point I often see missed, and as I said in my first post, none of this is meant personally for you. This kind of thing comes up often and I and others keep saying the same things.


Just try to keep in mind that not all of us know as much as you about PCs and Linux. :-DThat's all relative; I know far less than many people. It's certainly OK not to know every detail; if your assertions go off the track due to lack of information on a subject, and someone with more information corrects you, there's nothing wrong with that as long as there are no personal attacks and the like; that's just how discourse goes.

Anyway, I hope you read what I wrote again and see it for what it is.

(Note: If you're having a hard time installing Aptana on Edgy, check out this guide (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=315444).)

[lyceum]

I'm not hurt personally or whatever; why should I be? One just needs to have an essential understanding of sensible defaults when talking about them; you seemed to lack it and that's what I addressed.
You didn't seem to see why it would be bad to include Aptana, and I tried to make you see it. Please read better and you'll see that I wasn't against having a web design program by default but against having Aptana in particular.

To rephrase, Aptana isn't your average HTML editor, it's far richer in features; it's an IDE. If a general use distro such as Ubuntu were to have a simple web design (again, not web development) app for casual use largely by non-technical users, Aptana still wouldn't be the ideal choice.
That's obvious, but it's not something bad; if you can't bear being corrected when you're wrong or don't want someone to go against your views on the basis of lack of information, you should think again about posting to forums, or even taking part in any public discussion. Being wrong, making mistakes is a great way to learn; it's not something to take offense at.
I am quite calm. There are no offensive statements in any of my posts. I'm certainly not trying to vent; I'm addressing a point I often see missed, and as I said in my first post, none of this is meant personally for you. This kind of thing comes up often and I and others keep saying the same things.

That's all relative; I know far less than many people. It's certainly OK not to know every detail; if your assertions go off the track due to lack of information on a subject, and someone with more information corrects you, there's nothing wrong with that as long as there are no personal attacks and the like; that's just how discourse goes.

Anyway, I hope you read what I wrote again and see it for what it is.

(Note: If you're having a hard time installing Aptana on Edgy, check out this guide (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=315444).)

Thanks for the guide

[komputes]

I's like to see Thunderbird as default Mail client and VLC as default media player.