Is this the end of Debian?

[oddabe19]

With the release of Ubuntu there has been constant friction between debian and ubuntu...

like this article http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=10474

my question is, do you think ubuntu has run debian to the end? Most of Debian developers work for ubuntu, and ubuntu puts out a stable release every 6 months versus the 3 years for debian.

What do you guys think?

[Stormy Eyes]

What do you guys think?

I think that if Ubuntu can provide a better Debian than Debian while still remaining true to Debian's ideals, then why should Debian continue to exist? As it stands, it's hard to tell which will come out first: Debian Sarge, Enlightenment DR17, or Duke Nukem Forever.

Maybe it's time for Debian to pass the torch to Ubuntu and disband.

[TravisNewman]

I'm worried that Debian will be upset over Ubuntu and NOT take all the patches that Ubuntu sends back to Debian. THEN we'll have major segmentation.

[KiwiNZ]

I wonder where the true source of this FUD is .
It plays into the hands of our competitors. Divide and conquer .

[Leif]

I think it is important that Debian continue to exist. Ubuntu is committed to the desktop, and great as it is, it can't be everything to everyone, no matter how many developers work on it. The way Ubuntu started off, as a version of Debian with enhancements, working in harmony with debian, is exactly how it should stay.

[s0c0]

Debians release cycle is horrible, but I am a fan of the debian way of doing things. I think we will all have to wait and see Debians next release before we can answer the question.

[23meg]

Most of Debian developers work for ubuntu,

is this true? i know some of them do, but if that's most then it's a different story.

[poofyhairguy]

my question is, do you think ubuntu has run debian to the end?

No. What is happening is that Debian is being marginalized in the minds of OSS users because of Ubuntu and Debian devs are mad about that. But the only fix for their problem is to release a product.

Debian is too popular to die off. But it is having an image problem because Ubuntu is doing the "Debian way" better than Debian.

Once Sarge is released this sort of negativity will go away.

[im_ka]

With the release of Ubuntu there has been constant friction between debian and ubuntu...

like this article http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=10474

my question is, do you think ubuntu has run debian to the end? Most of Debian developers work for ubuntu, and ubuntu puts out a stable release every 6 months versus the 3 years for debian.

What do you guys think?

no, no, no! please everyone stop this kind of talk. i know it's a fashion to bash debian for delaying sarge again and again - sure, it _is_ a problem but debian is huge. but there would be no ubuntu without debian. or how about not using universe?

some wannabe whizkids not knowing what debian means to the linux community started this kinda talk that ubuntu will over take debian and stuff like that, and ian murdock made a point (not bashing) about his concerns that ubuntu and its packages become not compatible with debian. so everyone thinks it's debian vs. ubuntu now.

people should rather learn programming, find and report bugs in breezy (or in any other distro), write/translate howtos or do something useful and not fuel this pointless debate. ubuntu will never overtake debian, and i'm pretty sure that the ubuntu devs don't want it to happen either.

if there was only one distro to survive, i'd say it should be debian. for the record, i use ubuntu (since the pre-release of warty), love it, and recommend it to anyone interested in *nix. i use it because i'm lazy to set up debian on my laptop ;)

sorry for the rant and sorry for taking part in this debate.

[az]

Ubuntu does not do debian better than debian.

Debian is a general usage distribution while Ubuntu is a desktop distribution. Debian is free (libre) and makes a clear division between non-free software and the rest of the software they distribute. Ubuntu ships both free and non-free stuff.

Debian is so huge that what one or two developers say does not reflect the opinion of the distribution. That is a job for the Project leader - currently Branden Robinson. He speaks for debian and he likes to think of Ubuntu as a positive thing for Debian.

[XDevHald]

Ubuntu does not do debian better than debian.

Debian is a general usage distribution while Ubuntu is a desktop distribution. Debian is free (libre) and makes a clear division between non-free software and the rest of the software they distribute. Ubuntu ships both free and non-free stuff.

Debian is so huge that what one or two developers say does not reflect the opinion of the distribution. That is a job for the Project leader - currently Branden Robinson. He speaks for debian and he likes to think of Ubuntu as a positive thing for Debian.
I'm not a huge fan of Debian by any means, but, Ubuntu is publishing soft development with debians packages so it is fine as a backend runner.

[poofyhairguy]

Ubuntu does not do debian better than debian.

Nope, nothing can. But I believe that Ubuntu is doing the "Debian way" -use of apt-get and .deb packages, inclusion of best free software, focus on community- better than Debian currently (if only because Debian hasn't had a release based on these principles for years.) That is just my opinion though, and is no reason for Debian to die or end or be hurt in some way. In fact, Ubuntu's use of the "Debian way" brings more people into the concept of OSes being like Debian- free and powerful-which helps legitimize these ideas through the force of popularity.

Its not a big deal, Sarge will be released soon and all those wonderful patches for Debian from Ubuntu will work to help make Etch great.

[nocturn]

no, no, no! please everyone stop this kind of talk. i know it's a fashion to bash debian for delaying sarge again and again - sure, it _is_ a problem but debian is huge. but there would be no ubuntu without debian. or how about not using universe?


I love Debian for what they gave the community. But I would not use it unless they changed their release cycles.
I said this before, Debian Unstable is not acceptable for use (neither desktop nor server) because it has no security updates and is a moving target.
Debian Stable is so outdated, I run several Linux workstations and a couple of servers. None of them could technically run Debian Stable because the features I use are not offered on it.

So, instead of bashing Ubuntu, Debian should either release sarge now and make sure there is one release per year, or just be happy that the solid base they provided is being put to a good use.

[nocturn]

Ubuntu does not do debian better than debian.

Debian is a general usage distribution while Ubuntu is a desktop distribution. Debian is free (libre) and makes a clear division between non-free software and the rest of the software they distribute. Ubuntu ships both free and non-free stuff.


Ubuntu is also intended to be a drop-in system for the datacenter.



Ubuntu for Internet servers

On the Ubuntu installation disk you will find specialised software for databases, web serving, email hosting and DNS name serving, internet cacheing and directory services. Ubuntu also includes Samba for Windows file sharing, FTP server software for large file repositories and NTP for network time services. Ubuntu can be installed in a minimal server configuration optimised for datacenter servers that will not be used as desktop machine

[Mike Douglas]

I'd like to see the Debian devs swallow there pride and follow Ubuntu's example of a 6 month-based time release. It forces stability and shoting for attainable goals. It's done wonders to shoot new life into GNOME and hopefully it would jumpstart Debian too. This would also end any compatibility fears.

[oracle2025]

I believe Debian is priceless, and without Debian Ubuntu would either look radically different, or might not exist at all.

Actually I appreciate debians long release cycles because I don't want to do a major update on my servers every year, but I still want to be up to date in terms of security.

Ubuntu is great, it does a lot of things right, and so does Debian. They are both perfect plugs, but for different holes.

[nocturn]

Actually I appreciate debians long release cycles because I don't want to do a major update on my servers every year, but I still want to be up to date in terms of security.
.

I agree with that, so the long life of a Debian release is not the problem.
The problem is that if I install a new server today, I want a much newer release.

And for many types of servers, Debian stable does not cut it (like mail, it does not have Amavis or clamav).

[rpm]

It's important to mantain strength relationship of friendness with Debian.

They do a great (and Free) job upon which ubuntu is based.

We should continue to help and collaborate with them and not continue with this frictions between us.

It's important to develop as soon as possible a "legacy layer" debian compatible in order to maintain interoperability with some debs package and let ubuntu explore new ways..

rpm

[defkewl]

No please I'm hoping that Ubuntu will not go any time sooner. I just love debian because it's quite stable as a server and it's free. I don't know any other free and stable server distribution that is as good as debian :)

[Stormy Eyes]

Ubuntu ships both free and non-free stuff.

Really? I thought you had to manually enable the restricted repository if you wanted non-free stuff.

[poofyhairguy]

Really? I thought you had to manually enable the restricted repository if you wanted non-free stuff.

Same thing kinda applies in plain debian right (as in the adding of the non-free tag to get that stuff)?

[23meg]

here's Branden Robinson's fresh "project leader report". good reading for those interested in the future of debian.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/04/msg00019.html

[Amarack]

Debian will not be going away, and if it did we would all be much worse off. Ubuntu is great, and it has done something that was definately more than welcome in the community. But without Debian it would have been much much harder for Ubuntu to have been created and done as well as it has. If Debian dies, Ubuntu will have a very hard time mainting its quality.

[poofyhairguy]

If Debian dies, Ubuntu will have a very hard time mainting its quality.


Or at least each release wouldn't brign as many changes....