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jbtito03
December 4th, 2006, 04:01 PM
Well... the last six months where somehow very exciting for me for a lot of reasons. But one of the most exiting things was the usage of ubuntu and reading all what is related to oss and free software: the history, why, what, where it is going, what impact it has, etc.

After this mass of data, which i discussed mostly on such forums as this one is i could dicuss these topics "only" here and not in the "real" or "windoze" world. I had problems getting people to get the idea what oss, gnu, linux, free software, drm, etc. is and what it stands for.

Now, i worked on my explanation and i can say that i am getting pretty gewd at it and actually people are starting to think. I even moved some 10 people to GNU/Linux (mostly ubunut). But okey, lets leave the software thing, they are really getting the point of collaboration, community, coexistence, freedom and the most important control. Some are even getting involved in the field of blocking DRM because they really dont want it.


My question to you folks is - Have you had any experiences porting the message from the virtual world into the real one and what the experiences where?

Maybe it would be a gewd think to build a wiki around this topic with a biiiig knowlege base about how to clearly bring your message into the real world?


Cheers


JB

Brunellus
December 4th, 2006, 04:11 PM
I have found that trying to talk to people about Free Software is largely an irrelevant concern. Those people most receptive to the concept of Software Freedom will be those people who seek it out to begin with.

If I'm pushed, I usually proceed from the vendor lock-in point of view, which is coupled to the idea of software "ownership," though.

atoponce
December 4th, 2006, 04:16 PM
Still trying to process the word "gewd". Not sure what that means.

At any event, I'm a big advocate of helping people move from Windows to Ubuntu. My success as been minimal, but when I find that I focus on features, and not philosophies, I have greater success. No one is really interested in Free Software, GNU, Linux, community, etc. They just want to know whether they can get something done, that will take minimal effort, and produce good results. So, telling them about features, again, rather that philosophies has gotten me greater success in freeing the bound.

As far as your two last questions, I assume you mean that the "virtual" world is Ubuntu and Free Software, and the "real" world is Windows? If that's the case, I have "converted" many, including my parents, some friends and a couple coworkers.

And, a wiki (http://wiki.ubuntu.com) is already in place, as well as many more tools (http://www.ubuntu.com/community) to help Spread Ubuntu. However, I personally am looking for more ideas to Flood the Earth with Ubuntu. If you have some, I would be very interested.

Brunellus
December 4th, 2006, 04:22 PM
Still trying to process the word "gewd". Not sure what that means.

At any event, I'm a big advocate of helping people move from Windows to Ubuntu. My success as been minimal, but when I find that I focus on features, and not philosophies, I have greater success. No one is really interested in Free Software, GNU, Linux, community, etc. They just want to know whether they can get something done, that will take minimal effort, and produce good results. So, telling them about features, again, rather that philosophies has gotten me greater success in freeing the bound.

As far as your two last questions, I assume you mean that the "virtual" world is Ubuntu and Free Software, and the "real" world is Windows? If that's the case, I have "converted" many, including my parents, some friends and a couple coworkers.

And, a wiki (http://wiki.ubuntu.com) is already in place, as well as many more tools (http://www.ubuntu.com/community) to help Spread Ubuntu. However, I personally am looking for more ideas to Flood the Earth with Ubuntu. If you have some, I would be very interested.
OP's point about the "virtual" world is valid though. Linux users/advocates often operate inside a comfortable "echo chamber," and we often fail to understand why the wider world simply doesn't care about the sorts of things that generate long threads here and in the various mailinglists and newsgroups we inhabit.

atoponce
December 4th, 2006, 04:27 PM
OP's point about the "virtual" world is valid though. Linux users/advocates often operate inside a comfortable "echo chamber," and we often fail to understand why the wider world simply doesn't care about the sorts of things that generate long threads here and in the various mailinglists and newsgroups we inhabit.

True enough. I know many in this "comfort zone", and I have been there myself, not caring one iota about where or how the outside computing world is getting along. Also, I find that many Linux users are also philosophers and politicians (in the loose sense of the term), and that's why GNU/Linux fits so well. Most Windows users that I have met, don't fit in this mold.

Rhubarb
December 4th, 2006, 04:29 PM
All the non-geeky people I've spoken to haven't a clue what DRM is.
They're your typical ipod stereotype user.

They usually follow the concept of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" with a little "Ignorance is bliss" and plenty of "I paid for it, so I have to use it". - Meaning if it can play music from their CDs, why opt for a less trendy (and often cheaper) solution.

I work for a very large company here in Ireland, I've proposed a few OSS models that could save the company an awful lot of money.
The simplest OSS solution was just to use OpenOffice instead of ms office.
The reply I got here was that the company had completely sold their sole to ms, and in a year from now they'll do a review.
Surely at the very least it would be good to consider OSS now (maybe an OOo trial too?) rather than in a year's time.

The typical theme I see around me is lock-in.
People start off with "I paid for it, so I have to use it"
Then when they have to upgrade they either get locked into the vendor, or they try a different vendor and realise nothing is compatible.

So my (somewhat poor) strategy is to tell the person when they're having lock-in problems exactly that, then tell them there's an alternative. They don't seem to listen or to grasp the whole situation ("Ignorance is bliss").

I have however installed Ubuntu on several friend's PCs, as ms caused them far too many problems. And you know what? They're all much more happy.
- Yes they do have the odd problem, but those problems are few and far between and are far less important (like the Gnome bar "mysteriously" moved to the left-hand side of the screen!).

If you've got any recommendations how I can spread the Open Source word let it be known here in this tread :)

Brunellus
December 4th, 2006, 04:37 PM
True enough. I know many in this "comfort zone", and I have been there myself, not caring one iota about where or how the outside computing world is getting along. Also, I find that many Linux users are also philosophers and politicians (in the loose sense of the term), and that's why GNU/Linux fits so well. Most Windows users that I have met, don't fit in this mold.
I'm not a philosopher, nor a politician...I'm just a user whose WinME box imploded one day, and was thus hurled into the Linux scene more or less out of desperation.

I think the community might be better-served if more users like me got up and got active--supporting, bug-reporting, bug-fixing, and advocating. I'm frankly not satisfied to leave the direction of my OS of choice to the sole discretion of the Great Bearded Ones.

IYY
December 4th, 2006, 04:39 PM
All the non-geeky people I've spoken to haven't a clue what DRM is.
They're your typical ipod stereotype user.

Same here, but then I tell them that this means they may not be able to listen to the songs they purchased legally after a few years pass, or a new player is purchased. It might also mean that the photos of their children, saved in some proprietary format, may become forever lost to them.

atoponce
December 4th, 2006, 04:46 PM
I'm not a philosopher, nor a politician...I'm just a user whose WinME box imploded one day, and was thus hurled into the Linux scene more or less out of desperation.

Many also come from this direction. I didn't mean to categorize all Linux users into a single entity. I know that they come from all sorts of situations and scenarios.


I think the community might be better-served if more users like me got up and got active--supporting, bug-reporting, bug-fixing, and advocating. I'm frankly not satisfied to leave the direction of my OS of choice to the sole discretion of the Great Bearded Ones.

I completely agree. We need users becoming more active in the Linux scene, especially with Ubuntu. We have so many tools at our disposal to make this distribution shine, especially with the Ubuntu community. Why more people aren't stepping up to the plate, I don't know. I too don't want to leave the fate of my distribution in the hands of others. I CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!

jbtito03
December 5th, 2006, 02:47 AM
Well spoken...

Every single person makes a difference and can make a change!

As for advocation - for DRM i am using the "the cold-electrical-boxes want to control what you are listening to and if they will feel that you should not listen to it, they wont play it back :P"

For microsoft and windoze i dont have to say anything but "... again? Arent you tired of this insecurity and instability?" - then the discussion begins and after i have showed them a live CD or even my desktop (or some videos of the beryl/copiz desktops) they mostly consider it for dual boot and some even for a single clean system. Actually my friend has only basic knowlege about OS or even less. And she had problems with XP cause she could not handle the security right. I had to fix the laptop every 3 days cause she installed again some stuff that she should have not (avast was a terrible choice). So after some hesitation - Kubuntu on her laptop. First i was sceptical, as she did not know how to change the wallpaper on XP but i was amazed how quickly she learned - she is now managing the network for herself (WIFI, LAN, PPP) as she had to go thru the documentation. Really impressed. And she is more then happy.


About freedom and GNU/Linux - it is best to go to that topic thru CC and the story about RIAA and MPAA coming with DRM and then about how FSF started GPL and then come to GNU/linux and the community and freedom. Leave the technical specs out as most people dont understand anything (actually a friend asked me if a core duo processor that runs at 1.8Mhz runs at 3.6 when both cores are up?!?!?)

The hardest people to break and make them to listen are mostly (i call them) "the followers" - people, who really really really like to immitate the masses and really really really like to do what the masses are doing. So for them it has to be sead by an authority of their choice taht it is cool or good to use linux. That is my experience in that field.

The Administrators are always sceptical and i can understand them - if it does not work they may loose their jobs :P But at least they all consider it as an option.

For the companys and the "boards of directors" i use the only thing they hear "It is better, it is safer, it is more stable and it costs nothing if you do it by yourself - if you want it done properly you have to pay support!" And they get it sometimes, but sometimes they dont - especially when they do not even know what the internet exactly is and that not every country has its own internet like if there where borders and you have to have a passport :P)

Thats for tonight... have to go to spleep...

Cheers

JB