[Proposal] Deleting user accounts

[wieman01]

Hello Ubuntu Team,

Not that I intend to have my own account removed, however, I think it is absolutely crucial for a professional forum as this one to grant users the RIGHT (freedom, liberty, you name it) to have their user accounts deleted if they ask for it. Not that you have to remove every single post, that's not the point. But deleting their userid and related information should be possible.

As a consequence their user name should disappear from all posts/thread & replace with a generic user name such as "DELETED" or similar. With regard to protection of personal data, this should be a MUST. I know the forum staff has a different view in this respect but I consider this absolutely crucial & an area that you should improve. Other forums offer this option as well.

A right to CREATE an account should also entail the liberty to have it removed as required. Please think about it & evaluate this option with your team. Technically this is not a big issue. If it is, please contact me... I can give you some advice perhaps (being an ex-developer).

[Zdravko]

Why would you want to have your account removed?

[matthew]

We're actually looking into a way for users to be able to delete their own accounts if they so desire. It may be a while before it is implemented, but what you are saying is something that is being given thought. Thanks for the constructive input!

[wieman01]

We're actually looking into a way for users to be able to delete their own accounts if they so desire. It may be a while before it is implemented, but what you are saying is something that is being given thought. Thanks for the constructive input!
Hello Matthew,

Glad to hear that is in progress. I understand that it's definitely more complicated than it looks at a first glance, but it's worthwhile nonetheless. Thank you for your reply.

[po0f]

... With regard to protection of personal data ...
The user obviously felt no need to hide this information while they used the forums, why should the admins have to hide it for them when they leave? And it is a simple matter to just edit your own profile, delete anything that you made publicly available in the first place, and just never come back.

And if this measure ever comes to pass, please leave the username on their posts. A generic "deleted" username would get old very quick. Maybe do something similar to when mailing list posts get posted to the forums? (Just a name, and no bean count shown.)

[wieman01]

Data that is no more relevant to a user should disappear. I am not referring to the contents of a user's posts for it is obvious that you cannot delete those. Plus this bit is controlled by the user himself... If he/she does not want to expose personal information, he/she simply won't. As for the username, I think that's clearly part of information/data which should be protected & erased when the users asks for it. This is a question of principle & as highlighted, the forum admins are discussing the matter as a consequence.

[matthew]

The user obviously felt no need to hide this information while they used the forums, why should the admins have to hide it for them when they leave? And it is a simple matter to just edit your own profile, delete anything that you made publicly available in the first place, and just never come back.

And if this measure ever comes to pass, please leave the username on their posts. A generic "deleted" username would get old very quick. Maybe do something similar to when mailing list posts get posted to the forums? (Just a name, and no bean count shown.)Yeah, these are the details that have to be thought through in making any feature like this available and why at the moment we are no longer deleting user accounts. There are a lot of facets to consider and it just takes time when we all have jobs and responsibilities in the "real world."

[dvarsam]

...I think it is absolutely crucial for a professional forum as this one to grant users the RIGHT (freedom, liberty, you name it) to have their user accounts deleted if they ask for it.

Not that you have to remove every single post, that's not the point.

But deleting their userid and related information should be possible.

As a consequence their user name should disappear from all posts/thread & replace with a generic user name such as "DELETED" or similar.

Very good Proposal!

I agree with you totally!

This should be implemented!

The crucial User's Posts/contribution remains in the Forums...

...and only the User's personal data (i.e. User Name, Profile, etc etc...) are removed from the Forums!

The Forum can keep the knowledge & the User who contributed can disappear through eternity...


With regard to protection of personal data, this should be a MUST.

I know the forum staff has a different view in this respect but I consider this absolutely crucial & an area that you should improve.
Other forums offer this option as well.

Why do you say, the Forum Staff have a different view in this?

On the contrary, this is an even better approach compared to deleting all the Threads/Posts a specific Users has contributed to this community...


A right to CREATE an account should also entail the liberty to have it removed as required. Please think about it & evaluate this option with your team. Technically this is not a big issue. If it is, please contact me... I can give you some advice perhaps (being an ex-developer).

A user wishing to be removed from the Forums should be given the following two options:

1. Remove User Name, Profile & all Personal Info, but keep the Posts with a user name notation "Deleted".

2. Remove User Name & every post he ever created...

Question:
I wonder what would happen in the case a User has created a Thread compared to a Post?

Example:
I (as a User), make a starting Question...
If you erase the Question, how can you keep all the answers/replies to this question?

Thanks.

[wieman01]

Deleting all posts & threads will pose a problem. I don't think that is a good solution at all, because valuable knowledge may get lost. Apart from this I reckon we're on the same page.

[matthew]

...and only the User's personal data (i.e. User Name, Profile, etc etc...) are removed from the Forums!

The Forum can keep the knowledge & the User who contributed can disappear through eternity... I think that is the only thing we would ever consider anyway. Anything different would wreak havoc with the database.

Why would the Forum Staff have a different view in this? I don't recall any of us ever saying we did.

We have simply maintained that this is not a simple process...at the moment user deletion (and keeping their threads, etc.) is a pain in the hindquarters to do and fouls up the database. We're looking for a solution that doesn't involve an ugly hack.


On the contrary, this is an even better approach compared to deleting all the Threads/Posts a specific Users has contributed to this community... That has never happened and will not happen. It would cause a HUGE mess if we tried to delete all of a person's posts/threads. I have no clue where this thought even came from. On our end it has never been a consideration.


A user wishing to be removed from the Forums should be given the following two options:

1. Remove User Name, Profile & all Personal Info, but keep the Posts with a user name notation "Deleted".

2. Remove User Name & every post he ever created...
If/when we can come up with something it will be option #1. Option #2 will not happen. Period.

[DavidTangye]

I think it is absolutely crucial for a professional forum as this one to grant users the RIGHT (freedom, liberty, you name it) to have their user accounts deleted if they ask for it.
I agree.


Not that you have to remove every single post, that's not the point. But deleting their userid and related information should be possible.
I disagree with this bit. Who said what should be able to stand the test of time, and be able to be referred back to. People/userids should remain accountable for what they have said.


As a consequence their user name should disappear from all posts/thread & replace with a generic user name such as "DELETED" or similar.
I disagree: see above.


With regard to protection of personal data, this should be a MUST. I know the forum staff has a different view in this respect but I consider this absolutely crucial
Well, a name and what has been said on a public forum becomes public, so no privacy issues are relevant for this information. I expect that info that is marked/advised as private on an account screen would remain private, or be deleted when an account is closed, but the public info, eg username/nickname etc publicly attached to public messages would remain, as opined above.


A right to CREATE an account should also entail the liberty to have it removed as required.
I agree: as per the first point.

[wieman01]

Well, a name and what has been said on a public forum becomes public, so no privacy issues are relevant for this information. I expect that info that is marked/advised as private on an account screen would remain private, or be deleted when an account is closed, but the public info, eg username/nickname etc publicly attached to public messages would remain, as opined above.
Ok, that's the fundamental difference in our positions. I consider a username quite public, but only as long as a person decides to stay public & participate in a forum.

A person should equally be accountable for his/her posts, I second that. A forum member can receive "infrictions", may lose her/his status in the forums, and may eventually be banned ("burnt beans"). So accountability is there in the first place, others evaluate posts & have sufficient time to respond. However, if somebody decides to leave the community, this accountability stops. There is no point holding somebody accountable for something in which he does not even participate any longer. What's the point? The username does not create any kind of accountability or traceability. For me it merely constitutes a risk... The risk of having permanently exposed personal information (such as views, opinions, etc.) that can be exploited by others at some point in time. This may sound a bit paranoid, but that's my view.

Good discussion. All that said, of course I see your point.

[omns]

.

[az]

The risk of having permanently exposed personal information (such as views, opinions, etc.) that can be exploited by others at some point in time. This may sound a bit paranoid, but that's my view.


But those are the realities of any form of media.

Would it be fair for a news network to edit footage they filmed years ago to rewrite history? Even so at the subject's request?

If asked, I would not support the deletion of the individual's messages, but maybe just confounding their identity.

This is a young community. Perhaps in several years, someone who has been present on the forums may find themself running for the leadership of the Ubuntu project. What kind of integrity can they have if their entire past can have been "cleaned up"?

[KiwiNZ]

An interesting debate.

If these Forums were incorporated in my Country then ours laws would require us to delete the information at the owners request.

[matthew]

An interesting debate.

If these Forums were incorporated in my Country then ours laws would require us to delete the information at the owners request.Interesting. Would that include all the contents of the user's posts or just their personally identifying data and account info?

[handy]

An account holder can edit all but their username (in User CP ) at the moment can't they?

Unless they used their real name I wouldn't have thought there would be any problem?

[Edit:] As far as the database is concerned if someone wanted to delete their account their name would have to be replaced with one unique to the forum.

If all the posts had to go too, would the easiest way be to use the unique name & replace the post with an appropriate word or phrase so as to keep the db intact?

[wieman01]

A simple solution would be for the delete mechanism to change the user account to a common default. The members identity is removed but the community keeps valuable data.
That's the whole point of my discussion. Keeping the data but assigning a generic username.

If these Forums were incorporated in my Country then ours laws would require us to delete the information at the owners request.
Same here. Europe has very stringent rules in this respect. I have sent a request to a forum just recently, and they responded immediately removing all my personal data including the username. Most of the forums I know of have the function.


An account holder can edit all but their username at the moment can't they? Unless they used their real name I wouldn't have thought there would be any problem?
That's the point. Some users tend to make up userID that contain at least parts of their real name. You may say it's then their fault, they should not do so in the first place, but that would be a weak argument.

Again to make my point clear: Userids be deleted upon request. Posts & threads should be retained, the posters' identity be confounded as indicated by Azz.

Not sure how you guys deal with "quotes" that expose usernames (see above) from a technical perspective, because quotes are stored as text - I presume - and don't have a reference (foreign key) to the table that contains the userids & passwords. But that is a technical discussion which should follow this one.

[handy]

Again to make my point clear: Posts & threads should be retained, userids should be deleted upon request.

Not sure how you guys deal with "quotes" that expose usernames (see above) from a technical perspective, because quotes are stored as text - I presume - and don't have a reference (foreign key) to the table that contains the userids & passwords. But that is a technical discussion which should follow this one.

Hi Wieman01, Please see belated edit above?

The quotes can be handled but it sure is a pain...

[az]

An interesting debate.

If these Forums were incorporated in my Country then ours laws would require us to delete the information at the owners request.

What NZ statute says that?

[megamania]

If these Forums were incorporated in my Country then ours laws would require us to delete the information at the owners request.
Just for info, we have the same law here in Italy (protection of personal information and right to have personal information queried/edited/deleted).