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View Full Version : IS Koffice going to be default in feisty or not?



user1397
November 26th, 2006, 12:48 AM
i've heard rumors here and there that this could potentially happen, which to me kinda makes sense, since Koffice is native to KDE, rather than OpenOffice.

the thing is, i forgot where i heard these rumors, so i can't really provide any links to them.

so does anyone know for sure?

Dual Cortex
November 26th, 2006, 12:53 AM
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-koffice-by-default
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuKofficeByDefault

ComplexNumber
November 26th, 2006, 01:01 AM
i've heard rumors here and there that this could potentially happen, which to me kinda makes sense, since Koffice is native to KDE, rather than OpenOffice.

the thing is, i forgot where i heard these rumors, so i can't really provide any links to them.

so does anyone know for sure?
if i were a kubuntu user, i would dearly hope that it was nothing more than a rumour (and stays a rumour). open office is light years ahead and light years superior to koffice in all aspects other than speed.

user1397
November 26th, 2006, 01:07 AM
AH, ok, got it.

weatherman
November 26th, 2006, 02:41 AM
if i were a kubuntu user, i would dearly hope that it was nothing more than a rumour (and stays a rumour). open office is light years ahead and light years superior to koffice in all aspects other than speed.
I wonder if you've ever used koffice at all: just to make an example kexi is way better than open office base, kformula scored a 70% on the w3c mathml test vs the 20% or so by ooformula. Nevertheless there are still some rough edges, but it would be great to see koffice 2.0 in kubuntu by default when it comes out. And after all koffice is just way faster and better integrated for a kde user.

ComplexNumber
November 26th, 2006, 02:44 AM
I wonder if you've ever used koffice at all: just to make an example kexi is way better than open office base, kformula scored a 70% on the w3c mathml test vs the 20% or so by ooformula. Nevertheless there are still some rough edges, but it would be great to see koffice 2.0 in kubuntu by default when it comes out. And after all koffice is just way faster and better integrated for a kde user.
oh, i've used it all right. well, tried to. and tried. and tried. and tried. you're certainly right about the rough edges.
maybe you should have a look at the reviews given by such respected magazines as Linux Format who gave many of the applications between 4 and 5 out of 10 with the conclusion "a disaster area waiting to happen". read them for yourself.
then maybe you should (try to) start using it yourself.
i find it extremely difficult to believe how dire they are given the sheer length of time that they've been in development.

qalimas
November 26th, 2006, 03:56 AM
I use KOffice, and only KOffice.. I have no problems =/ I don't use any of the fancy features of suites that MS Office and OOo have, so I'm fine with it not having many features at all, in fact I kinda like that. I'm also a fan of ABIWord. KOffice is faster and does what I want it to do, I'm happy with it.

luca.b
November 27th, 2006, 05:13 PM
As I find the GIMP's UI absolutely horrid, I use krita whenever I have the chance.

Terracotta
November 27th, 2006, 06:03 PM
Krita is not worse than Gimp
Kexi is better than OObase
Karbon14 has no OO.org equivalent
OpenOffice.org word and spread are going to stay in the beginning, don't know about the presenter programs. Kpresenter looks nice to me, but than again Kword and Kspread suffice for me as well :mrgreen:

Just to say: there's more to Koffice than Kword, Kspread and Kpresenter.

jleemc44
November 27th, 2006, 06:07 PM
OpenOffice makes it easier to convert people over to Ubuntu as a primary os. Open Office is already widely used on window systems and many people are already used to using it.

user1397
November 27th, 2006, 09:09 PM
OpenOffice makes it easier to convert people over to Ubuntu as a primary os. Open Office is already widely used on window systems and many people are already used to using it.ahah, very good point! you could argue, however, that since kubuntu would be the only thing carrying koffice, and not ubuntu the primary one that most beginners first install/use/experiment with, that including koffice with kubuntu wouldn't really impact much. (cause most ubuntu users use the gnome-based ubuntu.)

jleemc44
November 27th, 2006, 09:27 PM
A very good point. Being from a home user/windows background I find it helpful when application's are more or less uniform across the board. Thats why I like Open Office so much. In the window world, if you spread sheet - you use excel, if you web publish - you use dreamweaver (more or less) ect ect. In linux there's 1001 options for both.

Open Office is one of the few that I use the same weather in Linux or Windows.



ahah, very good point! you could argue, however, that since kubuntu would be the only thing carrying koffice, and not ubuntu the primary one that most beginners first install/use/experiment with, that including koffice with kubuntu wouldn't really impact much. (cause most ubuntu users use the gnome-based ubuntu.)

chaosgeisterchen
November 27th, 2006, 10:36 PM
Well, first we will have to see how KOffice 2 will perform once it will be released. With releasing KDE Version 4, the KDE application universe really becomes renewed right from the Core and the KOffice 2 approach seems very promising.

It's a well-known fact that KOffice is the faster of which, as it is emphased on C++ rather than on Java. By using Qt4.2, Windows users will also be able to use it natively on their desktops, so the OpenOffice advantage concerning that isn't going to be the USP for further including it into any distribution. We will see, I hope that KOffice will not disappoint those who take all the announcments conerning it for full. I believe that KOffice is rapidly getting better and better and I hope that at the beginning of 2007, the K Desktop will get the boost which makes it popular at last.

The possibility to use K-Apps natively under Windows lets the Free Desktop trespass borders which were unpassable before that. I am looking forward to that, using amaroK under Windows will be great. And if KOffice 2 is great, why not using it with Feisty Fawn? Isn't Java as consuming as loading the K-Libs?

ComplexNumber
November 27th, 2006, 11:50 PM
koffice devs desperately need to sort out their core components (ie kword, spread, etc) before they think about anything els. otherwise, its worthless as an office suite. they are not even up to the same standard as their open office equivelents when open office was first released.

GameManK
November 27th, 2006, 11:56 PM
koffice devs desperately need to sort out their core components (ie kword, spread, etc) before they think about anything els. otherwise, its worthless as an office suite. they are not even up to the same standard as their open office equivelents when open office was first released.
What version are you using?

ComplexNumber
November 27th, 2006, 11:59 PM
What version are you using?
open office 2.0.4. the last koffice i used was 11:1.6.0

curuxz
November 28th, 2006, 01:10 AM
Krita is not worse than Gimp
Kexi is better than OObase
Karbon14 has no OO.org equivalent
OpenOffice.org word and spread are going to stay in the beginning, don't know about the presenter programs. Kpresenter looks nice to me, but than again Kword and Kspread suffice for me as well :mrgreen:

Just to say: there's more to Koffice than Kword, Kspread and Kpresenter.

Erm just to point out Krita is a piece of $%%^&$^%&*%&*(^&&^%$$%^&*&^%$$%^&*^%$$$$$%^&^%%% its patheticaly bad on its own, but compared to gimp?! its no comparison.


In my view Koffice should be scrapped and openoffice made the default its a waste of development resources to carry on with these programs when none of them have any significant advantage over Oo. The development time could be better spent increasing the speed of Oo in KDE

Kristen Lucas
November 28th, 2006, 01:19 AM
koffice devs desperately need to sort out their core components (ie kword, spread, etc) before they think about anything els. otherwise, its worthless as an office suite. they are not even up to the same standard as their open office equivelents when open office was first released.

Hi Complex,

Being a Koffice dev i would really like to know what it is you are talking about because what you are saying makes no sense.

Thank you.

Kristen Lucas
November 28th, 2006, 01:22 AM
Erm just to point out Krita is a piece of $%%^&$^%&*%&*(^&&^%$$%^&*&^%$$%^&*^%$$$$$%^&^%%% its patheticaly bad on its own, but compared to gimp?! its no comparison.


In my view Koffice should be scrapped and openoffice made the default its a waste of development resources to carry on with these programs when none of them have any significant advantage over Oo. The development time could be better spent increasing the speed of Oo in KDE

Yeah, competition is real bad for software progress in FLOSS, let's all run FreeBSD.

Koffice flies where OO doesn't even start up in a couple of minutes, OO is anything but lightweight, Koffice on the other hand is.

Honeestly, you haven't even ONCE used Koffice, have you?

Johnsie
November 28th, 2006, 01:22 AM
Everyone has different tastes. I thought "by default" was a method used by microsoft to force software on people. IE by default, WMP, MSN etc. I'm all for choice because I know people like different applications. So what default would I prefer? A chooser which allows me to select my main office suite depending my tastes. I'd also love it if I had a tool to make my own installer cd's which only installed packages I choose. I think there might be one available already.

Kristen Lucas
November 28th, 2006, 01:25 AM
Everyone has different tastes. I thought "by default" was a method used by microsoft to force software on people. IE by default, WMP, MSN etc. I'm all for choice because I know people like different applications. So what default would I prefer? A chooser which allows me to select my main office suite depending my tastes.

Oh I have no problems with the OO devs, i think that choice is good and there is more than one, Abiword and others are all great applications, Goffice is really the future for Gnome i think, the more the merrier. :o)

ComplexNumber
November 28th, 2006, 01:32 AM
Hi Complex,

Being a Koffice dev i would really like to know what it is you are talking about because what you are saying makes no sense.

Thank you.
you make me believe that you haven't used either kspread or kwrite for more than 1/2 hour. did you not read Linux Formats dismal review (issue 80) of its core components where none of them scored more than 5 out of 10?
even gnome office significantly outperformed koffice. both abiword and gnumeric slaughtered kword and kspread by at least 3 points.

Kristen Lucas
November 28th, 2006, 01:54 AM
you make me believe that you haven't used either kspread or kwrite for more than 1/2 hour. did you not read Linux Formats dismal review (issue 80) of its core components where none of them scored more than 5 out of 10?
even gnome office significantly outperformed koffice. both abiword and gnumeric slaughtered kword and kspread by at least 3 points.

No, i'm sorry but i was busy developing whish is why none of the mentioned bugs are currrnt, us devs do that you know, fix bugs.

I'm not going to say much about Abiword or Gnumeric except that i think they are excellent applications.

You have still not said anything about your specific problems (which for som reason always seem KDE related)

If you are prepared to take a magazines worth i don't think this is even worth discussing withou you, I was looking for ersonal experiences, not "he said she said".

If someone has some more serious input that would be great. Like what is lacking, what is your experience and so on.

ComplexNumber
November 28th, 2006, 02:01 AM
If you are prepared to take a magazines worth i don't think this is even worth discussing withou you, I was looking for ersonal experiences, not "he said she said".it is personal experience. i was just giving you something concrete and a detailed review to look into. i don't know if you have access to the magazine, but their review was partly a summery of my experience with them. the main concerns(IMO) are stability and the interface.

Kristen Lucas
November 28th, 2006, 02:26 AM
it is personal experience. i was just giving you something concrete and a detailed review to look into. i don't know if you have access to the magazine, but their review was partly a summery of my experience with them. the main concerns(IMO) are stability and the interface.

That is great, KDE did not work for you so you found another solution, i don't have a problem with other solutions, if you have a current problem with anything in Koffice, tell me about it, if all you have to say is "it sucks" then keep it to yourself as it is not construcutive nor informative.

From what i read of your problems with KDE though i'd say it is a PEBKAK thing.

maniacmusician
November 28th, 2006, 02:37 AM
for what it's worth, I find KOffice to be fairly usable. I had a bit of a problem with getting columns to work properly a while back, though. I couldn't find an easy way to adjust the spacing in between the columns that it created. Other than that, I find myself using it often, as it's a quicker solution than OpenOffice. As long as I don't have to use that file outside of my computer, I usually use KOffice

Kristen Lucas
November 28th, 2006, 02:53 AM
for what it's worth, I find KOffice to be fairly usable. I had a bit of a problem with getting columns to work properly a while back, though. I couldn't find an easy way to adjust the spacing in between the columns that it created. Other than that, I find myself using it often, as it's a quicker solution than OpenOffice. As long as I don't have to use that file outside of my computer, I usually use KOffice

If you could give me the version number you used and an exact description it would be much appreciated.

You could mark and use the ruler or use any of the spacing keys while it's marked and you hold down CTRL. But if you tried that and it did not work. I just tried it and am not able to reproduce the problem you describe.

Kristen Lucas
November 28th, 2006, 03:07 AM
I really hope you don't take that as arrogance madmusician, I realized that I was lecturing you, that was not my intention at all. :o(

maniacmusician
November 28th, 2006, 03:19 AM
No, not at all, don't sweat it.

I can't reproduce the problem either. It was only a month or so ago, but I don't remember exactly what I was trying to do that wasn't working, sorry. I was using KWord, btw, sorry I forgot to specify that.

Anyways, It seems that the "column spacing" option does the job nicely, though I havn't fiddled with it TOO much today, just took a glance. If I come across the problem again, I'll be sure to report it. Thanks for your work on this program though, I hope development continues at an accelerated rate. kudos to you.

edit: however, I would recommend that you guys improve the "page preview" thing in the column tab of page layout. Though it changes to reflect the number of columns, it does not reflect the spacing between the columns. I think it would be a safe bet to make the replica of the page a little bigger so that you can accurately portray Column spacing, as that is one of the options listed on that tab.

ComplexNumber
November 28th, 2006, 04:01 AM
That is great, KDE did not work for you so you found another solution, i don't have a problem with other solutions, if you have a current problem with anything in Koffice, tell me about it, if all you have to say is "it sucks" then keep it to yourself as it is not construcutive nor informative.

From what i read of your problems with KDE though i'd say it is a PEBKAK thing.
i've given you a detailed range of the problems. as i've already said, the experiences of the reviewers were largely similar to mine and other peoples. read the magazine and find out for yourself.
if anything, it would be a lot easier and quicker to comment on the positive points. you've definitely got your work cut out.

maniacmusician
November 28th, 2006, 04:22 AM
i've given you a detailed range of the problems. as i've already said, the experiences of the reviewers were largely similar to mine and other peoples. read the magazine and find out for yourself.
if anything, it would be a lot easier and quicker to comment on the positive points. you've definitely got your work cut out.
....at what point in this thread did you post a detailed range of problems? Unless I really did miss it, all I saw was "It doesn't match up to OO's core components" and "_____ magazine gave it this score whereas so&so got this score".

After progressively watching you post over the past couple of months, I have to conclude that you're just a Gnome fanboy that bashes anything KDE related whenever the chance presents itself. The irritation I feel grows exponentially everytime I see you do it.

user1397
November 28th, 2006, 04:36 AM
"Hey, I don't like your tone. Say it again, and I'll stab you in the face with a soldering iron" - Joe Dirt quip

unless you guys want to have this thread locked or moved elsewhere, let's get rid of our silly emotions and keep things civil.

maniacmusician
November 28th, 2006, 04:44 AM
hey, i'm all for that. I got a little agressive in the second part of my post, but the first part is very valid. Where is this "detailed range of the problems"? Does it exist?

and just for clarification's sake, I'm not a KDE advocate or anything.