Freespire Talk

[Rackerz]

http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Download_Freespire

Anybody going to try it? Has anybody had a go already?

[hobieone]

i'cve been following freespire but is basically a linux distro for dummys like linspire. esentually the open beta for linspire 6.0. besiside you can't use anyt other repository but cnr acoording to freespire forums those who had tried pointing apt get elsewher broke broke apt-get. plus your stuck with kde interface. it doesn't have have the flexa bility the ubuntu has. i wused linspire watching free spire. but switched last month to ubuntu due to the freedom a flexability ubuntu offers:-D

[tseliot]

I've tried the livecd yesterday and it's nice. Everything (the nvidia driver, codecs, plugins) worked out of the box for me.

The apps are a bit obsolete and will remain so on Freespire 1.0.

Freespire 1.1 will be more up-to-date (and more of a community project).

It's very nice for users coming from Windows

[rattlerviper]

Well, I'm intrested to know what everyone thinks of the new Freespire beta. For my part I have heard and seen many people right or say that Freespire is the perfect distro for those who are just switching from windows. I will concede it is a pretty desktop (but cluttered!), and it seems great that everything can be CNR. I must say that after installing on my hard drive the day it came out it is now GONE! I could never get my printer to work a Lexmark z816, which I was able to get to work on Ubuntu. It also made me feel "confined" with everything spoonfed to me, which is a major reason I switched from Windows XP the ability to make my own choices.
Clearly the Ubuntu forum community is more mature and able to quickly deal with far more problems than the Freespire forum(nothing against freespire Ubuntu does it better than everyone else, and we don't eat our young!) I personally feel this is a distro searching for users rather than users searching out the proper distro. Who is drawn to this? Most likely people that are unwilling to make the changes to deal with an occasional sudo command. We call them (gasp) Windows users. Honestly Freespire looked to me to be a advertisment for CNR. Look you get the OS free, just pay us 20 buck (or more if you wanna) a year and use our "free" software. Ubuntu is pretty darn close to 1 click with synaptic, and if you can't handle synaptic you probably are stuck with windows(if you can handle that.

All that being said Kudos to Freespire on a very nice looking beta. I hope we see many great improvements in thier distro in the next year or two, as it shows much potential. It's just not mature yet in the ways that I would like to see from a debian based distro(having to do a fresh install on every upgrade)](*,) ). Anyways Viva la Freespire, for it is competition, as all open scource supporters know, that fosters improvements. Lack of competition is what leads to lack of developments (look at Micro$soft), so thank god for Suse, Redhat, Mandriva, Debian, Ubuntu, Freespire and everyother distro for the competition for we shall all improve to the point where the big one crumbles:twisted:

[Rhapsody]

I don't see much point in dual booting another Debian-based Linux distro. The main reason I would have for keeping more than one OS around would be run applications made for other OSes (I'm thinking of triple booting with ReactOS and Haiku to do just that). But Ubuntu and Freespire? Wouldn't you be better picking the one you like best and going with that?

[rattlerviper]

I dual boot Dapper and Edgy just for testing purposes. I could have made an even more pointless choice available. Dual booting Linspire and Freespire.

[Adamant1988]

Freespire's main purpose is to speed up the development of Linspire. As for what you saw, you pretty much got a stock version of Linspire 5.1 with different art and sound.

But yes Linspire is notorius for spoon feeding you your computers functionality, but the distro isn't bad by all means. It's been the only one that configured the touch pad on my laptop so that I could turn off tapping. (edgy eft anyone?)

Anywho, after playing with Suse and Ubuntu, the only thing I can say is that Linspire is a very nice party trick with legal dvd playback and an interesting name, but I personally won't be using it until it's much more up to date.

[FredB]

Linspire is too playskool like for me.

And why the f*ck renaming Firefox into LBrowser ?
Renaming Thunderbird to LMail ?

It is pathetic.

mv freespire.iso /dev/null

[tseliot]

And why the f*ck renaming Firefox into LBrowser ?
Renaming Thunderbird to LMail ?
Here is their explanation:

Different versions of applications you have seen before. For example, we make hundreds of changes, enhancements and improvements to Firefox and Thunderbird, so many we can't call it "Firefox" anymore. (Trademark law, and as mandated by Mozilla, prohibits us from calling it "Firefox" because we've changed it so much. Please don't yell at us and say we're trying to re-brand or take all the credit from Firefox. We're just playing by trademark law.) The fact that we change these programs is a good thing, as you'll more than likely come to appreciate and enjoy the bug fixes and enhancements we make to these programs.

The rest of the article is here:
http://forum.freespire.org/showthread.php?t=326

[rattlerviper]

mv freespire.iso /dev/null

:-k LMFAO

[sb73542]

The most important thing is that Freespire provides free, LEGAL multimedia software of all sorts. On other distros, such as Ubuntu, you can install extra software to work with the same media formats, but in the USA, it's technically illegal.

I'm waiting for the next major release of Linspire (2.0 ?), which will include updated KDE and kernel. I think it will be quite a nice OS.

[Adamant1988]

I expect that Linspire (6.0) will be a lot better off than 5.1 is.

Linspire has always had a lot going for it, amazing hardware detection, CNR, legal multimedia playback of all forms (although DVD you have to buy).

But foss people are always going to hate linspire on moral and ethical grounds... it 'charges for free software', it includes non-free software, etc. the list goes on.

Personally, Linspire is my next favorite distro behind Ubuntu. As a user, I just want a system that works for me.

Freespire's role in all of this is to help make Linspire more bleeding edge, and with less bugs et cetera. and I think that freespire is supposedly going to help speed up the development of Linspire as well... Time will tell.

[rattlerviper]

The most important thing is that Freespire provides free, LEGAL multimedia software of all sorts. On other distros, such as Ubuntu, you can install extra software to work with the same media formats, but in the USA, it's technically illegal.

I'm waiting for the next major release of Linspire (2.0 ?), which will include updated KDE and kernel. I think it will be quite a nice OS.

Would it be possible legally to add thier repositories to Ubuntu, and apt-get the required codecs? I know that it is possible to add thier repositories:cool: , just asking if that would mean someones codecs were legal if they were downloaded through the "legal" scource?

As for the DVD playback you have the choice of CNR gold membership@ $49.95+ 9.95 for the player, or $19.95 for the CNR membership plus $49.95 for the player. That's pretty exspensive for "free".

[kripkenstein]

I just tried out Freespire in VMWare, so I don't know about hardware recognition, all of that stuff always works inside virtualization. Otherwise, I would never use such a distro - too much catering to Windows users.

But, I guess it isn't intended for normal Linux users. What it might be, is an actual possibility for people to switch away from Windows to. I wouldn't use Freespire, but I would be very happy to see them advertise and sell lots of cheap Windows-free PCs with it.

[darthchaosofrspw]

I expect that Linspire (6.0) will be a lot better off than 5.1 is.

If I understand it correctly, the first full edition of Freespire (1.0) will still be based on the Marlin build (Marlin = Linspire Five-0), while Freespire 1.1 will be based on the Skipjack build (Skipjack = Linspire 6.0).

[rattlerviper]

If I understand it correctly, the first full edition of Freespire (1.0) will still be based on the Marlin build (Marlin = Linspire Five-0), while Freespire 1.1 will be based on the Skipjack build (Skipjack = Linspire 6.0).

Don't get upset at me if I am wrong, but I saw it somewhere over there on the freespire site that Linspire 6.0 was to be based on the Freespire 1.1 release. I just can't find it right now to post it here:-k . Maybe I shall be able to find it sometime tonight.

[paullinux]

Tried it and it looks good. But still commercial minded (CNR...) But it's beta. It's boot up was a bit strange and I guess not intended. It took a long time to finally get to the desktop. I dumped it however... It boots first before grub. So I couldn't get to my other (Ubuntu) distro's. The only way to get it dissapear is to delete the partition - on which Freespire was installed - completely...
:( :( :(

[rattlerviper]

Hmmm, I did not have that problem. On my Pc it played well with Ubuntu. Did you use The first Beta, or .76? From what I have read over there they are having a lot more problems with .76 than they had with the first one :)

[sb73542]

Would it be possible legally to add thier repositories to Ubuntu, and apt-get the required codecs? I know that it is possible to add thier repositories:cool: , just asking if that would mean someones codecs were legal if they were downloaded through the "legal" scource?

Yup, I was wondering the same thing. It would appear to me that this is very possibly a legal solution for Debian/Ubuntu users, but I'm no lawyer.

[rattlerviper]

Yup, I was wondering the same thing. It would appear to me that this is very possibly a legal solution for Debian/Ubuntu users, but I'm no lawyer.

Just remember you can't apt-get install the DVD player that has the codecs since they are charging for it. If you are intrested in getting the DVD codecs for free through a scource that has them legally I would check out DreamLinux. It too is based on Debian, an they have a codec installed in the DVD player by default:) Just not sure if that would make it legal on Ubuntu or not:confused: I guess in the long run I'll have 2 do more searching to find out. I guess if you want too make sure your legal you could hook up a REAL dvd player to your computer>:^o

[aysiu]

If you stole from Linspire's repositories without paying for CNR, then you might as well just install libdvdcss2 from the Ubuntu PLF repositories.

[rattlerviper]

If you stole from Linspire's repositories without paying for CNR, then you might as well just install libdvdcss2 from the Ubuntu PLF repositories.

But what if you used DreamLinux's repository, which is free? Or is it free because it is not U.S. based? Which if that is the reason you wouldn't be covered if you used DreamLinux as your OS either would you?

[Brynster]

deleted. Accidental double posting.

[Brynster]

Linspire's target audience by there own admittance is the Linux/computer novice.

Peple who either are sick and tired of windows and its flaws but cannot afford to buy a MAC and need a replacement OS.

It does this very well, excellent hardware detection, legal codecs for many windows formats, a legally purchasable dvd player. flash out of the box etc. It also it supplies CnR wharehouse which in the main makes for very easy 1 click installs of software. Now this is where thje main nub of the FOSS crowd issue is. They charge for this service. Now the charge is not for the software. Its for the time and effort involved in getting the software to work on the majority of machines the majority of the time ie no need to hack or configure to make it run, for this they have engineers working at fixing dependencies, bug squishing testing etc. Thats the service you pay for not the software, you paying to make life easy for yourself. The other issue is about Linspire making money on open source software can you all say Redhat or Suse 100 times please, after don't they do a chargable OS based on Linux also?

Now i am not a Linspire user but they did introduce me to Linux for that i am thankful.

Freespire should be seen tin the context of OpenSUSE or Fedora an ongoing development version used to test and tryout new things etc.

The current Firespire Release is an early beta and is based on 5.1 with all the branding removed and the other bits that cannot be issued out on various free licences removed. Its a good distro still though however the 2 things that sent me packing from Linspire are still preasent in Freespire those are the sluggishness of the disty and the classic KDE/Linspire dancing icons bug.

As fars as adding the wharehouse repo's to Ubuntu and getting the dvd player, everything with the CnR wharehouse is encrypted to prevent that happening

[aysiu]

But what if you used DreamLinux's repository, which is free? Or is it free because it is not U.S. based? Which if that is the reason you wouldn't be covered if you used DreamLinux as your OS either would you?
The Ubuntu PLF repositories are also free. libdvdcss2 is both cost-free and open source. Unfortunately, in the United States at least (if not other countries), it is illegal to use.

I'm sure installing it from DreamLinux repositories is no different to the movie companies than the Ubuntu PLF repositories.

[rattlerviper]

The Ubuntu PLF repositories are also free. libdvdcss2 is both cost-free and open source. Unfortunately, in the United States at least (if not other countries), it is illegal to use.

I'm sure installing it from DreamLinux repositories is no different to the movie companies than the Ubuntu PLF repositories.


Hmmmm, we really do have some screwed up laws:x I guess it's an issue I should study more. Right now I use my dvd player to watch movies, not my computer so I guess it's a moot point. I just think it is swrong if it is free and open scource that we can't LEGALLY install it. Truth be told I would bet using the ones from PLF would never get you in trouble?

[aysiu]

Unfortunately, such is life, at least in America. I'm sure there are other countries with such laws, too, but no other one that I've seen explicit documentation for.

DeCSS is illegal in the US, and that's what libdvdcss2 employs. It doesn't matter that's it's open source software. It doesn't matter that most people who install libdvdcss2 do so only to watch legitimately purchased DVDs on legitimately purchased DVD-ROM drives. It doesn't even matter if these people have legitimately purchased PowerDVD for Windows.

Now are you going to be prosecuted for using Synaptic to install a codec to view your DVDs at home? Probably not. But if you do want to know if it is illegal--it is if you're in America. It may be elsewhere, too.

[rattlerviper]

Unfortunately, such is life, at least in America. I'm sure there are other countries with such laws, too, but no other one that I've seen explicit documentation for.

DeCSS is illegal in the US, and that's what libdvdcss2 employs. It doesn't matter that's it's open source software. It doesn't matter that most people who install libdvdcss2 do so only to watch legitimately purchased DVDs on legitimately purchased DVD-ROM drives. It doesn't even matter if these people have legitimately purchased PowerDVD for Windows.

Now are you going to be prosecuted for using Synaptic to install a codec to view your DVDs at home? Probably not. But if you do want to know if it is illegal--it is if you're in America. It may be elsewhere, too.

Is there any way currently to legally obtian DeCSS in the us that you could intall in Ubuntu?

[richbarna]

The Ubuntu PLF repositories are also free. libdvdcss2 is both cost-free and open source. Unfortunately, in the United States at least (if not other countries), it is illegal to use.

I'm sure installing it from DreamLinux repositories is no different to the movie companies than the Ubuntu PLF repositories.

PLF Ubuntu repositories "shutting Down".
http://plf.zarb.org/

[rattlerviper]

PLF Ubuntu repositories "shutting Down".
http://plf.zarb.org/

That is not good news. I would guess with the community here though someone will step in and fill the need. I have to say it is not neccasarily Ubuntu the software that has moved me to Ubuntu, it is the Ubuntu of the people in this community. Always willing to help, friendly(well most of the time), and most importantly most people here seem to understand the Open Scource philosophy, rather than out to get some cheap software(not that there is anything wrong with that).

[wdo_will]

Personally, I liked Freespire for a beta, but not in a million years would I switch. On VMWare, it was incessently slow I thought the desktop at first boot as as cluttered as the first boot of a brand new Dell with OEM Windows XP Home.

[rattlerviper]

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE!!!
Freespire dorums are begining to take off, there seems to be more and more posts there everyday. Their beta seems to be setteling down now so that it is not quite so tempermental. If you want to test it I can recommend a test now. I will do an official review once the final is released, as I don't think it is where it should be(not breaking) yet.

[deanlinkous]

The Ubuntu PLF repositories are also free. libdvdcss2 is both cost-free and open source. Unfortunately, in the United States at least (if not other countries), it is illegal to use.

I'm sure installing it from DreamLinux repositories is no different to the movie companies than the Ubuntu PLF repositories.

Is it illegal period or only if you have not paid for a license or something? What specifically is illegal about it I wonder? So if I personally go to the entity resonsible for licensing css ability and get a license for myself can I then just grab libdvdcss and use it?

[aysiu]

http://www.lemuria.org/decss/

[deanlinkous]

http://www.lemuria.org/decss/

:confused: Was that suppose explain something for me because all I got from it is that libdvdcss is illegal to use PERIOD. That there is no legal way to use it. It is a illegal method period.

[aysiu]

:confused: Was that suppose explain something for me because all I got from it is that libdvdcss is illegal to use PERIOD. That there is no legal way to use it. It is a illegal method period.
Then you got it. At least in the US (though it may be true in other countries as well), it is illegal period. It doesn't matter if you already paid for PowerDVD or some other legal way to play your DVDs. It doesn't matter if you're only playing DVDs and not copying them. It's illegal in the United States.

If you outside the US, you may have to check your country's own laws regarding this matter.

[deanlinkous]

How does linspire use xine and libdvdcss (afaik) legally then? Seems that would still be illegal also?

[aysiu]

How does linspire use xine and libdvdcss (afaik) legally then? Seems that would still be illegal also?
I don't know if Linspire uses DeCSS. It definitely pays for the proper licenses, though.

[deanlinkous]

Well if it did then would that be legal since they have paid for the license? What keeps another distro from doing the same? What keeps me from doing the same? Every time I have seen Mr Carmony or Mr Robertson talk about the dvd playback they have mentioned a mpeg license. What does that have to do with everything, any ideas? :)

[rattlerviper]

The real deal is now out. Freespire has now released their "real" first release(not a beta). If someone was so inclined to test it I guess now would be the time, since it SHOULD now be stable.

[Steve1961]

Just installed the 1.0 version on a spare partition to see what it's like. Not much to say really. It looks very polished, apt-get seems to be working fine (I didnn't touch CNR), isntallation takes about 10 minutes, and the boot splash is very pretty. On the downside it's using an old version of KDE (3.3), at the moment it's not possible to install Gnome, and some of the people on the forum see absolutely nothing wrong with running as root all the time. Other than that...well that's it really. Nothing so special about it that would encourage me to use it instead of Dapper.

[rattlerviper]

Just installed the 1.0 version on a spare partition to see what it's like. Not much to say really. It looks very polished, apt-get seems to be working fine (I didnn't touch CNR), isntallation takes about 10 minutes, and the boot splash is very pretty. On the downside it's using an old version of KDE (3.3), at the moment it's not possible to install Gnome, and some of the people on the forum see absolutely nothing wrong with running as root all the time. Other than that...well that's it really. Nothing so special about it that would encourage me to use it instead of Dapper.

In a nutshell that's about it. I see the "draw" of Freespire to be those who are Just making the switch to Linux from Windows. Currently there is no reason I would switch. As the project develops(the community becomes more involved) and 1.1 and beyond come out there may be some interesting changes.

[forest_atq]

mv freespire.iso /dev/null

I suppose it's not important that this wouldn't actually work, unless you were root, in which case it would replace the /dev/null special device node with the contents of your freespire ISO, which is probably not what you want.

[rattlerviper]

Sorry folks but it's true! Last night I made a post in regards to Freespire now being my recomended Distro of choice for the newbies among us. I now fully recant my statement. One of the things that make Linux safer than windows is root and the fact that most of us do not run as root all the time like windows users do right?
Well I decided to install freespire last night on a secondary computer(bye bye Ubuntu from this pc) so that my kids could use Freespire.

Freespire runs as guess what? Root! Sudo apt-get install something and you do not have to type your password in. You can in fact make any change you want to the system without typing your password in! This is NOT good for a standard practice(hey I know there are some Ubuntu users who run as root all the time as a choice, but it is their choice) especially in a distro aimed at the complete Linux neophyte. If someone wants to run as root all the time let them edit the sudoers list! A newbie will not know the potential security risk that this is. Let the experienced user deal with making changes rather than the complete beginner!

If you choose to use Freespire just be aware of the potential downfalls of it's security setup.

[rattlerviper]

I suppose it's not important that this wouldn't actually work, unless you were root, in which case it would replace the /dev/null special device node with the contents of your freespire ISO, which is probably not what you want.

Oddly enough if you were using Freespire you are indeed root by default:rolleyes:

[Adamant1988]

rattleviper I normally enjoy your posts but this one is just misinformed.
Freespire does not run as root, the user much choose to run as root.

What I mean is that YES freespire has an account that has complete root privledges. While some people use this account for everything that's not recommended... you should create a user to do your daily work in (as with any distro as far as I know, except for Ubuntu and other sudo using systems)

So, tell me if you are setting up your grandmother on a linspire computer are you SERIOUSLY going to let them use the account labeled "administrator"? The regular user accounts are unable to take advantage of this root without password situation.

[djheadley]

Administrator by default? Sounds like XP to me. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!! I have seen too many XP users run as Administrator because "after all, I am the only user so I must be the administrator" or "It's too hard to set up an account". It shouldn't be done this way!

nuff said.

[rattlerviper]

rattleviper I normally enjoy your posts but this one is just misinformed.
Freespire does not run as root, the user much choose to run as root.

What I mean is that YES freespire has an account that has complete root privileges. While some people use this account for everything that's not recommended... you should create a user to do your daily work in (as with any distro as far as I know, except for Ubuntu and other sudo using systems)

So, tell me if you are setting up your grandmother on a linspire computer are you SERIOUSLY going to let them use the account labeled "administrator"? The regular user accounts are unable to take advantage of this root without password situation.

I'm sorry you feel my post is misinformed. I am posting this from Freespire...When I set up another user account it allowed me to sudo without entering a password...the only option that changes it is unchecking the admin box for the user, then I was unable to sudo or run synaptic at all(maybe cnr still works have not checked it). So the choices appear to be complete root privileges or none. Effectively it kills the security of sudo. I ended up editing the sudoers file to remedy this.
I can't comment on how I would set up a Linspire computer for my Grandmother...I have not used Linspire enough to tell what the differences are between Linspire and Freespire other than having no obvious terminal(I have only run Linspire live).
What must be considered is if someone fresh from windows sets up Freespire they are not going to know how to change the sudoers file OR that there is a potential problem in the first place. And yes it is a potentially LARGE security problem. Any program can run as root by using sudo. Surely someone else sees the potential for trouble with this?
So with a stock Freespire install a individual is faced with running in this state or creating a user without admin abilities and switching back and forth? That is one of the major flaws in windows. To avoid switching back and forth everyone just sets up their account as a admin account.
Clearly those of us advanced enough to edit the sudoers file would be advanced enough to edit it to allow us to run the way it is now. the question should be are the new to Linux people(let's face it that's who Freespire is squarely aimed at advanced enough to do the same?).

It's not a huge deal, it just means when someone says"I use windows Xp and would like to try Linux, what would you recommend?" My answer will simply be "PCLinuxOS" I don't have the privilege of helping everyone install Linux who asks a question like that.

[deanlinkous]

Oddly enough if you were using Freespire you are indeed root by default:rolleyes:

You are, how so?

[deanlinkous]

Well that isn't running as root IMO but YES I think they got the implementation wrong. :)

They didn't want to inconvenience the user but I say a little inconvenience in exchange for security is always good.

I wonder how long it will take them to correct this issue though?

[deanlinkous]

http://forum.freespire.org/showthread.php?t=1523

[Adamant1988]

actually, again, you are misinformed. The sudo 'security hole' has been tested in a REGULAR USER and does not work if the user is not the system administrator or in the the administrator group.

Which brings us back to the "don't run as administrator and you'll be fine" line of thinking...

[rattlerviper]

Well that isn't running as root IMO but YES I think they got the implementation wrong. :)

They didn't want to inconvenience the user but I say a little inconvenience in exchange for security is always good.

I wonder how long it will take them to correct this issue though?

Your probably right about the running as root thing;)

It took me about 3 minutes:D Not sure if they will fix it! was just searching on it over there and they don't consider it a problem. Oh well if it makes them happy so be it. I thought it might have been something they ovelooked and let through by accident but it does not appear to be so. On the contrary it apears they have purposly set it up this way. So if you don't like it edit it yourself. I just think they are mistaken to force the BEGINNERS to make the changes rather than the more experienced users.

[rattlerviper]

You are, how so?

Just type sudo...no password required. Maybe not "real" root but definantly root like:)

[deanlinkous]

Yes, I think they often get the security aspect bass ackwards. :)They have it unsecure by default and clueless users will never realize they are not secure and yet leave it to experienced users to secure the OS if they wish it. Very poor! I hope they correct it but it seems to me this would be a fifteen second fix and roll out a new point release. We will see.

[skymt]

You don't need to edit /etc/sudoers. Just run as a regular user and alias sudo to 'su -c'. There, done. Just as secure as Ubuntu.

[deanlinkous]

Yea, but that will KILL the normal *spire users since they hate the way ubuntu handles security with sudo. Most of them swore they would not even use freespire if it was configured that way. Most probably won't tolerate entering a password everytime or anything. I have no idea what they use their system for that they need constant root access but they make it sound like that is the case.

Hope they get it worked out but I think the constiuents are going to have to accept that security comes before convenience - at least a little bit.

[jISh]

Most distros run as root by default. All you have to do is create a user account. And you can install sudo as well.

[rattlerviper]

Yea, but that will KILL the normal *spire users since they hate the way ubuntu handles security with sudo. Most of them swore they would not even use freespire if it was configured that way. Most probably won't tolerate entering a password everytime or anything. I have no idea what they use their system for that they need constant root access but they make it sound like that is the case.

Hope they get it worked out but I think the constiuents are going to have to accept that security comes before convenience - at least a little bit.

They can always opt to run as root by choice...I repeat that I do not think newbies will keep it secure. The Linux community really doesn't need a black eye when it comes to security.

[SoundMachine]

Most distros run as root by default. All you have to do is create a user account. And you can install sudo as well.

Actually, most distros don't even allow you to log in as root via the gui after installation and no distro i am aware of won't prompt you to create a user account during installation.

Tell me, which distros run as root by default after installation?

[Adamant1988]

You're given the option right off the bat to set up a new user who doesn't have administrative priviledges and anyone who hasn't come into linux completely blind should know that running as root ALL of the time does present a security risk .

However, create a non administrative user and you are safe.

[rattlerviper]

You're given the option right off the bat to set up a new user who doesn't have administrative priviledges and anyone who hasn't come into linux completely blind should know that running as root ALL of the time does present a security risk .

However, create a non administrative user and you are safe.

Have they recently changed that? When I installed it gave me the option to add another user and I did, but I sure didn't see any way to change to a user rather than a admin. When I logged into the user account it had admin privs.

Can you sudo from a user account? If you can't then what is the point of having sudo if you have to use it from the admin account? Why not elimainate sudo all together and just go a root/user to stay safe?
So I ask again why are they relying on Newbies to be the one to know how to make changes and set the thing up. Freespire is squarely aimed at fresh from XP users. They will not know how to do it and even if they do they won't because most consider it the norm to run in a admin account in XP because they won't want to switch back and forth.
I'm not trying to be obnoxious or argue, merely to understand where everyone is coming from. Linux does not need a black eye due to security flaws in the software.

[beameup]

Yea, but that will KILL the normal *spire users since they hate the way ubuntu handles security with sudo. Most of them swore they would not even use freespire if it was configured that way. Most probably won't tolerate entering a password everytime or anything. I have no idea what they use their system for that they need constant root access but they make it sound like that is the case.

Hope they get it worked out but I think the constiuents are going to have to accept that security comes before convenience - at least a little bit.

Thanks for that. I don't understand the thinking but that is their choice.

Damn Deanlinkous you're all over the place! Got any sun lately? :p

[deanlinkous]

You're given the option right off the bat to set up a new user who doesn't have administrative priviledges and anyone who hasn't come into linux completely blind should know that running as root ALL of the time does present a security risk .

However, create a non administrative user and you are safe.

HUH? In freespire you create a user but it has no password AND it seems to have ultimate power which means it is (almost)root and has no password either. IIRC!

Yes you can setup security and undo what they have done. Is that really the direction things should be going in?

As stated previously, step one will be to get the *spire constituents to realize that a tiny bit of inconvenience is alright if it provides some security.

I think they probably should of went for setting up both root and regular user accounts with passwords. Disabling root login. Then prompting for password when doing anything that requires it. That is just one idea. I would love to see a secure AND convenient method but until it is achieved then we need to go for secure first and convenience second.

btw - i never get any sun! Well I have to go mow occasionally but that is it! I can point out some of my other IDs on other forums if you like. I think I like to talk WAY too much. Be sure to visit the xandros forums - they love me over there. :D

[Adamant1988]

*sigh* give me a minute I'll do it inthe live cd of beta 1 I have.

[Adamant1988]

Ok, I ran Freespire Live via the CD here is what I did during the startup configuration.

Set a password
Added a new user named adam and gave that user a password.
Logged into adam.

I'd like to note that I was, however, unable to test the sudo loophole from inside of the live disk.

Here are some screenshots of my foiled attempt to change things from user mode...


Screen1
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7627/freespireroot1yn7.th.png (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=freespireroot1yn7.png)

CURSES! It seems my 30 seconds of work has managed to stop me from doing something that requires root powers!

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9887/freespireroot2bg2.th.png (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=freespireroot2bg2.png)

BY THE GODS... ROOT ACTUALLY WANTS A PASSWORD FROM ME! HOW DARE IT INTERFERE WITH THE PRECONCEIVED NOTION THAT I HAVE TO BE VULNERABLE FOR RUNNING FREESPIRE.


It appears that your "all powerful user" isn't so all powerful...

[SoundMachine]

Ok, I ran Freespire Live via the CD here is what I did during the startup configuration.

Set a password
Added a new user named adam and gave that user a password.
Logged into adam.

I'd like to note that I was, however, unable to test the sudo loophole from inside of the live disk.

Here are some screenshots of my foiled attempt to change things from user mode...


Screen1
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7627/freespireroot1yn7.th.png (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=freespireroot1yn7.png)

CURSES! It seems my 30 seconds of work has managed to stop me from doing something that requires root powers!

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9887/freespireroot2bg2.th.png (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=freespireroot2bg2.png)

BY THE GODS... ROOT ACTUALLY WANTS A PASSWORD FROM ME! HOW DARE IT INTERFERE WITH THE PRECONCEIVED NOTION THAT I HAVE TO BE VULNERABLE FOR RUNNING FREESPIRE.


It appears that your "all powerful user" isn't so all powerful...


If sudo also requires a password on an installed copy then it has changed fairly recently.

I am looking for changelogs but i find very little information, since you are more knowledgable when it comes to this distro perhaps you could help me?

[Adamant1988]

my understanding of it is that when you set a password for the administrator you also set the sudo password along with root. But I could be mistake, as I haven't had the oppertunity to test it.

[deanlinkous]

http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Making_Admin_Accounts_More_Secure

[rattlerviper]

http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Making_Admin_Accounts_More_Secure

Oh my! looks like Freespire has just realized they have a problem. Looks like they just put the page up to me Modified Sept.1 and only been viewed 71 times.

AdamAnt, I was never looking to argue with anyone over this subject but it is one that is very close to my heart so I may get a little passionate at times. Be assured I like the freespire project, I think it is good for the community...I'm glad to see that they see a problem with the way they have set it up!

[Adamant1988]

Rattleviper... my understanding is that it is STILL not a threat to you if you're not running as root. So, while I hope they fix it for people who do run as root, it's not a major problem for people who run as user.

[deanlinkous]

The default installation of Freespire 1.0 may allow certain malware to run as root without your knowledge when you are running as a user in the admins group (i.e. an Admin account) due to the way Freespire has implemented sudoers. This creates a security hole since malware that you may download unintentionally can have easy access to your complete filesystem. The malware could erase your whole hard disk, modify any file, replace any file or do a number of other nasy things. ...

[SoundMachine]

my understanding of it is that when you set a password for the administrator you also set the sudo password along with root. But I could be mistake, as I haven't had the oppertunity to test it.

I got my testing box filled at the moment, but i will download it and get back to this thread.

Basically i am looking for a distro to replace 160+ windows installs, i pretty much had my heart set on Ubuntu but original install was flaky and even when installed correctly, somewhat buggy, then xorg broke, right now it's at the bottom of my list which doesn't mean much since i only have SuSE ahead of it. :)

[Adamant1988]

...
Deanlinkous I seriously don't know what's up with you.. but I've already said just be a regular user and your fine. (and yes I count being an administrator as being root, you get all the same powers)

[rattlerviper]

I got my testing box filled at the moment, but i will download it and get back to this thread.

Basically i am looking for a distro to replace 160+ windows installs, i pretty much had my heart set on Ubuntu but original install was flaky and even when installed correctly, somewhat buggy, then xorg broke, right now it's at the bottom of my list which doesn't mean much since i only have SuSE ahead of it. :)

160+ windows install? So 160+ computers? Are they older or newer? Do you they all need specialized setup? If they do and can handle it I would head over to Knoppix and make your own live cd that you could install from. Knoppix is nice and solid and it is very easy to create your own install disc.
If not look at PCLinuxOS very easy and very friendly(rock solid stable too). PCLinuxOS is also very up to date.
Freespire probably should not be on the tob of the list at least until 1.1 comes out. I would also hold off on Freespire until you can dist-upgrade instead of having to make a new install. Just a thought.

[deanlinkous]

Deanlinkous I seriously don't know what's up with you.. but I've already said just be a regular user and your fine. (and yes I count being an administrator as being root, you get all the same powers)

Nothing is up with me. I didn't really have anything to say - I thouht the quote from the wiki made it clear. The DEFAULT installation will leave you vulnerable. That is exactly the reason for changing the way installation method of linspire was so that by default you would be safe. The purpose of the changes were specifically to make sure that by default a clueless user would not end up as root. Well now they are not root but they are (by default) part of the admin group and can sudo anything without a password. Which for all malicious intents is as good as root or close at least. :mrgreen:

[SoundMachine]

160+ windows install? So 160+ computers? Are they older or newer? Do you they all need specialized setup? If they do and can handle it I would head over to Knoppix and make your own live cd that you could install from. Knoppix is nice and solid and it is very easy to create your own install disc.
If not look at PCLinuxOS very easy and very friendly(rock solid stable too). PCLinuxOS is also very up to date.
Freespire probably should not be on the tob of the list at least until 1.1 comes out. I would also hold off on Freespire until you can dist-upgrade instead of having to make a new install. Just a thought.

Heh, i don't really need advice more than for nice distro's, and one main thing here is support. Remember that i'm the responsible one, i don't want to get stuck between angry users and non-responding support.

SuSE is on the top right now and probably what i will go with but it's an open market so i'll continue to explore it.

PCLinuxOS isn't for me, don't ask me why or you'll get a rant so big that your head might explode. ;)

[rattlerviper]

Heh, i don't really need advice more than for nice distro's, and one main thing here is support. Remember that i'm the responsible one, i don't want to get stuck between angry users and non-responding support.

SuSE is on the top right now and probably what i will go with but it's an open market so i'll continue to explore it.

PCLinuxOS isn't for me, don't ask me why or you'll get a rant so big that your head might explode. ;)

It doesn't matter why...Open Source is about choice.:D

[SoundMachine]

It doesn't matter why...Open Source is about choice.:D

You got that right, and though ex windows users sit and det bored by simply having a choice and not exploring it... well that is someting that has to be done.

It's well worth the trip.

Thank you.

[darrensnospam]

This week I loaded Freespire onto one of my partitions and I wanted to share my experience with you.

Previously, I had 2 partitions: Ubuntu and Suse.

I booted my machine from CD and it gave me the option to Install, Run from CD, or do partition work. I selected partition work.

It loaded Gparted which I used to create a ext3 partition. I rebooted and selected install from the CD boot menu.

Install was painless. It asked me for my keyboard layout and time zone and maybe a few more things - can't remember. (Oh, the one thing I do remember is it asked me if I wanted it to write to them MBR. It did. Now, no boot menu for Ubuntu or Suse. Gotta fix that.)

After install, I rebooted and up came Freespire. Nice splash screen.

I prefer Gnome over KDE, however the KDE interface was setup nice and clean.

I checked fglrx info and found that the 3d acceleration drivers for my 9600 were installed by default. I thought that was impressive since I've always had to figure out how to get that working after an install of Ubuntu. (Anyone want to comment why Ubuntu doesn't automatically load fglrx as the default driver upon install? I think Ubuntu should load it upon install.)

It appears to me that the system was running a bit slow. I'm not sure if that's a KDE thing or a Freespire thing but websites loaded slowly and I noticed when I moved my mouse around on the screen the mouse icon left a trail.

I created a CNR account and tried click and run. Not bad. I installed a few applications: Frozen Bubble, Armegetron without problems. Click 'n Run works as advertised. But, the interface could use a little work. Again, the interface was a little slow.

I couldn't get Freespire to set my clock correctly.

Overall, I think it's a decent piece of work and I think it will only get better. For now, I like Ubuntu's polish. Again, I like Gnome better than KDE.

Now for my opinions.

I like the fact that Freespire gives users the options of having a completly open source system or one with proprietary software: Real Player, Adobe Reader and so forth. Allthough the Ubuntu repositories don't have proprietary software, the canonical repositories appear to be Mark Shuttleworth's way around that. Personally, I think a mix of proprietary and open source applications is just fine. In that respect, I like Kevin Carmony's philosopy about Freespire.

I also like the fact that I can purchase a legal DVD player for Linux for Freespire. I think for more mainstream adoption, a DVD player is essential. I think that if I had a legal DVD player for Ubuntu, I'd probably use it more than I do today.

I want a decent alternative to Windows. I want to be able to create movies on an OS other than Windows. Personally, I think Apple would put a real dent in Microsoft's iron grip on the desktop market if they would allow OSX to be installed on hardware other than their own. I don't understand why they only want to hold onto 5% market share. This void is what I hope Linux will become. However, based on my experience, I still think Linux has some ways to go.

I want to be able to install the Ubuntu OS and be able to edit movies out of the box. (I have to monkey around with 1394 permissions to get it to recognize my Camcorder.)

With all the folks working on Linux, I hoped that in the past 2 years of trying it, that it would be a bit further along. Or am I just being impatient? Personally, I feel that the Linux momentum has slowed. We had a lot of hype a few years ago about how Linux was going to be a viable alternative to Windows. Honestly, I think it's still too much work to get going - if the goal is to take marketshare away from Microsoft and/or have a desktop OS for the average user. If the goal is to have a tool box for folks that like to tinker, I think we've arrived with that one.

If I'm going to recruit people to use Linux, some of what I've mentioned above needs to be worked out.

Thanks for listening.

[The Noble]

Ubuntu is meant to be barebones for exactly what you need so it can fit on one CD, so that is why you won't get any extra video editing software right after the install; that is the point of the repositories(sorry to hear about the permissions issue, though). Also, Ubuntu does have philosophy: everything included with it is free and open source. Most drivers are not, sadly.

I can't really compare linux 2 years ago to now, but I do think linux is starting to prove real player in the desktop market and could really start to break out in a year in the savvy user market.

Sorry for not articulating this very well: I just woke up. Also, I'm glad you are giving constructive criticism!

[kornhead127]

I tried Freespire for about 2 weeks as well and the only thing I liked about it was the fact that it installed all my drivers withour a hitch. Everything worked as it should and I went to the end of the OS and back.

I'm not a fan of KDE but it seemed the 'buginess' of KDE was gone.

I like dthe CNR. It was easy to use, I actually didn't mind the interface, but I'm a quick learner.

One of the biggest pains of Freespire was It had that inevitable slowdown after the first two sessions, reminding me of WinD0ze!:evil:

I dumped it after those two weeks. It just wasn't quick enough. Nevermind my siggy I was using my other comp which is damn fast compared to my current one.

[darrensnospam]

Good feedback.

I guess I meant to say that I want Linux to be ready to go to do video editing out of the box. I suppose I don't mind downloading cinelerra, for example after I have it installed.

[kornhead127]

I don't think Linux will ever break into mainstream use. There are a lot of distro's and imagine this:

You walking down the aisles of Best Buy. You're buying a new OS because you feel $300 is way too much for any OS. You get to the Linux section and see 50 Different choices ont he shelf. You smile turns to a frown as you try and decide which one to go with. You spend 3 hours in the store reading the backs of boxes, determining the uses for each distro.

Flash back to reality.

You see, any new user would be completely overwhelmed by the choices they would have to make.

Maybe a unified Linux distro? CollaboLinux :)

[darrensnospam]

kornhead127,

yeah. that's the main reason why I use Ubuntu because it's closest to being the standard and I would suppose that if 3rd parties are going to write software for linux, they'll build it for Ubuntu first.

[darrensnospam]

I was trying Freespire again this evening and I was wondering what would happen if I loaded a non-encrypted DVD into my DVD player. I popped one in and started Kplayer and the DVD was playing.

I tried this yesterday with Dapper and it would not play.

Based on these few things I've discussed, I would say that Freespire is a bit more ready to go than Dapper. With all the folks that are involved in the Ubuntu project, it just seems so strange to me that I can't do what seems like simple tasks.

- darrensnospam

[yman]

I was trying Freespire again this evening and I was wondering what would happen if I loaded a non-encrypted DVD into my DVD player. I popped one in and started Kplayer and the DVD was playing.

I tried this yesterday with Dapper and it would not play.

Based on these few things I've discussed, I would say that Freespire is a bit more ready to go than Dapper. With all the folks that are involved in the Ubuntu project, it just seems so strange to me that I can't do what seems like simple tasks.

- darrensnospam

but the DVD format isn't free open source, so providing support for it out of the box is againsed the Ubuntu philosophy.

[RAV TUX]

moving to the Other OS forum

[mrgnash]

With all the folks working on Linux, I hoped that in the past 2 years of trying it, that it would be a bit further along. Or am I just being impatient? Personally, I feel that the Linux momentum has slowed. We had a lot of hype a few years ago about how Linux was going to be a viable alternative to Windows. Honestly, I think it's still too much work to get going - if the goal is to take marketshare away from Microsoft and/or have a desktop OS for the average user. If the goal is to have a tool box for folks that like to tinker, I think we've arrived with that one.

I don't think the goal is to 'take away market share' from anyone -- that's essentially a negative goal. The goal is to provide an alternative, which it does.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading your comments and thank you for bringing this distro to my attention; I quite like the philosophy behind it as well, and I'll be keeping a close eye on it's development :-k

[3rdalbum]

You get to the Linux section and see 50 Different choices ont he shelf. You smile turns to a frown as you try and decide which one to go with. You spend 3 hours in the store reading the backs of boxes, determining the uses for each distro.

This post raises so many rhetorical questions...

What retailer would carry so many?
Don't you think that a store would only carry the ones intended for normal desktop work, and therefore there would be no "wrong answers"?
In my line of business, if someone is spending time comparing products, we ask them if they would like help. Aren't there any salespeople around?
Wouldn't a user be as confused when comparing internet security packages?

When people choose Linux, they first go online to seek out information about distributions. They can then download one. If they want a boxed-set, THEN they go to retailers or even just order over the Internet.

The scenario is ridiculous, and I'm sure the "unified Linux" was an attempt at trolling.

[kornhead127]

lol, you got me all wrong.
I'm all for keeping Linux right where it is. No mainstream ****. The reason I made that little remark was to prove the point that Linux should never go mainstream. Being open source there would be too many distro's on the shelf. Who's to the sales people know what the distro's do anyway. Internet security has like 3 or 4 options if you don't include the damn spyware software. whatever.

[neighborlee]

This post raises so many rhetorical questions...

What retailer would carry so many?
Don't you think that a store would only carry the ones intended for normal desktop work, and therefore there would be no "wrong answers"?
In my line of business, if someone is spending time comparing products, we ask them if they would like help. Aren't there any salespeople around?
Wouldn't a user be as confused when comparing internet security packages?

When people choose Linux, they first go online to seek out information about distributions. They can then download one. If they want a boxed-set, THEN they go to retailers or even just order over the Internet.

The scenario is ridiculous, and I'm sure the "unified Linux" was an attempt at trolling.

The "unified" linux was not an attempt at trolling..if this is the prevalent 'attitude' of ubuntu users then Im darn glad I switched over to freespire when I did. Does no one understand how support works , then again does anyone really care ?

People need alternatives to costly and buggy and virus ridden OS's and if linux never achieves a unified approach, we will never get there.

I see nothing in any distro that atm offers a one best appraoch to making peoples computing lives easier than windows except Freespire. No, this is not a 'troll' but my personal opinion. Too often I find that debian users have this 'hacker' mentality that if you can't hack or can't RTFM then you surely aren't kewl or capable or desireable to be using linux.


Well guess what freespire makes NONE of those assumption which is why it deserves the backing of every single linux wannabe out there and why with freespire linux has a shot at mainstream acceptance, whether or not you think it should ( Ill take better hardware/software support any day of the week over being ignored as uninteresting and egotistical hackers ).

[galvatron1983]

Its a new distro thats been around for a couple of months, its made by the Linspire folks, but its free. I havnt downloaded it or tried the LiveCD yet but I hear its very easy to use and comes with all of the closed sourced plug ins (flash, java, mp3, divx, wma etc) built in straight away. Has anybody here given it a go? Is it any good?

[R3linquish3r]

Ive gone as far as installed it on my spare box. Yes it is simple. Infact I felt like I was 4 years old/using a mac the whole time I installed it. It would be good for someone just switching to linux though.

[galvatron1983]

Did it come with all the closed source plug ins installed? Trying to get my dad to switch to linux as hassle free as poss! Freespire seems like a good bet :)

[R3linquish3r]

I really cant tell you. Like I said I installed it :P

[rocknrolf77]

I love glossy as a photographer, but freespire is so glossy it makes me think it's to much. But to newbs their click'n run is exellent. Just click install from the c'n r warehouse the program or game is installed. For some people it is super like the Ipod is so simple, but for me it is too simple it just makes it harder for me. I have to learn the hard way, if it's too easy I don't understand anything. Give me a challenge please. Maybe someone will shoot me when I say this but, freespire is maybe the osx of linux. It's all about the design and simple solutions. :)

[rocknrolf77]

Did it come with all the closed source plug ins installed? Trying to get my dad to switch to linux as hassle free as poss! Freespire seems like a good bet :)

Try too set up linux mint for him (a new distro based of ubuntu with mp3 and flash and those things from start) or maybe dreamlinux (a osx lookalike with xfce) :)

[DJ_Peng]

I actually tried the latest build of Freespire for a couple of weeks before turning to Ubuntu. It was okay, but I've been working with computers as more than a basic user for several years and I was rather unhappy with how much it seemed to be geared toward more novice users. I also had problems getting my Sound Blaster Live 5.1 card working in it.

I don't know if it's because I've gotten more comfortable with working in Linux after using Windows since version 3.1 or if it's just easier to do things in Ubuntu, but I've managed to get Firefox 2 and Thunderbird 2.0b1pre working from downloads from Mozilla as well as getting Dreamweaver and Fireworks running under Wine, things I didn't accomplish in a couple of weeks running Freespire. The only thing I still need to do on this box is getting Spacial Audio's SAM Broadcaster running under Wine so I can do an Internet radio show from this comp rather than using a Windows box like I do now.

If you're not comfortable rolling up your sleeves and digging into teh settings, or prefer KDE over Gnome, I'd say give Freespire a try. If you prefer Gnome or you're comfortable with working from a command prompt and digging around in a text editor I'd say stick with Ubuntu.

[deanlinkous]

I would wait until the stable v2 is out! Even then, I have never been impressed.

[Darrious]

For some reason Freespire/Linspire does not get a lot of respect from the Linux community.

The first distro I ever used was Linspire and, at the time, it looked great. There were just a couple of problems with it.

One, I never really used the command line. I just used click n' run. The only problem was that not every application came with click n' run, and when something did not work I just sort of left it there. With Ubuntu, I was able to fix my problems using the command line.

Two, at the time I did not know the difference between KDE and Gnome. I just liked the glossy look. Now I hate the glossy look. I just like everything clean and simple.

To a novice user Linspire is great. The only reason I do not like it is that it reminds me of Windows.

[hobieone]

i installed it it s not bad for beginner but it does have some issues detecting vid cards correctly and has no xgl. if any thing i'd wait till the release of fresspire 2.0 that will correct those its supposed to be release sometime in december. but it goos for some just transitioning over from windows tho and get hier feet wet

[NikoC]

I tried it a few days a go and I have to agree with most of you guys... for me it's a bit too polished: more like a playskool computer or 'my first Sony' ;) It shutted down my lappy without any problems though which is not the case for Ubuntu.

[justin whitaker]

Funny, I just saw this thread.

I installed Frespire 1.0.13 (or whatever) on the PC I gave to my mother in law last night. She's not technically savvy...but XP did not see her DSL line, where Kanotix found it no problem. The thing is, she needs the sort of "here is the web browser" sort of handholding that Lin/Freespire does.

Within 15 minutes, Freespire was installed, and she was on the web. All the hardware was found, ran like a champ....very very impressive.

Honestly, I think the reason that Freespire doesn't get any respect is because they make it that simple. To me, that smacks of elitism. We aren't going to move Linux forward if we leave anyone behind.

Now to see if she realizes it's not windows. That's the test. :mrgreen:

Overall, I'm looking forward to the 2.0 version.

[steven8]

I tried the Freespire OSS LiveCD last night. The OSS version comes with NO proprietary stuff at all, just like gNewSense. I liked it very much. It is now only the 3rd distro I've found, along with Dapper and gNewSense which works with my usb cable modem ootb. I didn't have much time to fiddle with it, but it is very clean.

I know my people in the Linux community don't 'really' like it, though. And I don't think it has anything to do with it being 'too simple'. It's because that great big LAUNCH button reminds people too much of the XP Start button. :-)

[deanlinkous]

just like gNewSense
Uh not quite gNewSense goes a bit further than that.

*spire getting no respect has little to nothing to do with elitism or being 'liked' :D

[steven8]

gNewSense goes a bit further than that

No offense intended, Dean I felt it was a compliment.


*spire getting no respect has little to nothing to do with elitism or being 'liked'

Heck, I was just cracking wise about the Launch button. So, why doesn't 'spire get respect?

[deanlinkous]

I didn't say anything about being offended. :D

I don't want to go on a long tirade about the things they have done but any respect or lack thereof can be directly attributed to them!

But part of it could be that launch button ----- YUCK!

[Kernel Sanders]

I've been keeping tabs on the Freespire project, and I have to say i'm very impressed. Its the Mac OS of the Linux world, in terms of everything "just works". Although, those that like to tinker with your systems wont like it.

The 2.0 release out early next year looks amazing. *ROADMAP* (http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Freespire_Roadmap)

CNR is now free, but for 2.0, they have big plans for it!


# An new, open sourced CNR client, accompanied by a new and improved repository system which will allow for much quicker, safer and timely syncing with other Debian-based repositories. This will allow us to keep the CNR Warehouse extremely current and pull in new software much more quickly with less man hours and work.

# New CNR Warehouse design with improved look and feel, chart and search results filtering (popular applications, console applications, etc.), and individual wiki/forum functionality for each product in the Warehouse.

[Kernel Sanders]

Oddly enough if you were using Freespire you are indeed root by default:rolleyes:

Way to spread FUD :rolleyes:

The Linspire root fiasco was solved several versions of Linspire ago. :rolleyes:

[Kernel Sanders]

I like the launch button, it has character :cool:

[aysiu]

Way to spread FUD :rolleyes:

The Linspire root fiasco was solved several versions of Linspire ago. :rolleyes:
It wasn't solved as of 5.0 when I installed it. What version is it on now?

Edit: Nope. I double-checked their website, and the latest version is 5.0, so it's not FUD at all. The installer does, in fact, default the first user to be root. You can, during installation, as an Advanced Setting add non-root users, but the first user you create is still the root user... and that's the default.

[Kernel Sanders]

Spend a few mins on google, and you will pull up several articles which will explain why that is complete rubbish.

Its nothing but FUD that has grown over the years, despite it never being an issue because it was fixed very quickly.

[aysiu]

I don't need to spend a few minutes on Google. I actually used and installed Linspire 5.0. It defaults to root and allows you the option (as part of "Advanced Settings") to add other users. See the screenshot in my last post for more details.

Please find these articles explaining the security model, or explain it yourself. If it doesn't default to root, what do you think it does? Default to user and have a separate root password? Have an admin user with limited privileges that temporarily gains root privileges with sudo?

Edit: Okay, I did my Google searches, and I haven't seen anything indicating that the first user created during installation in Linspire (apparently Freespire is slightly different) is not essentially root. It may not be called root, but it is root if it can do all the things root can do without a password prompt.

From Editor's Note: Does Freespire Inspire? (http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2006-09-08-020-26-RV-DB) (emphasis added):
This whole thing about the default user being root is an old myth that Linspire has tried to kill for years. And, admittedly, the default user is not root. But it is an administrative account, which means it has more power than a normal user. You can tell this by going into the command line in the default account and typing sudo... You won't get a password prompt. Ever. Try to run the same command without sudo, and you will be blocked for not having root access--which proves that this account is not root. This is a very fine legalistic distinction, and one that shouts security problems to me. Freespire does warn new users during the installation to create a general user account for themselves, but I wonder if their warnings could be more strongly made. This could be fixed, for example, by adding a new login screen that says, okay, you've made your administrator account, now please make one for everyday use." It's not a very fine legalistic distinction at all. If you can do anything you want without a password prompt, you are, for all practical purposes, root.

From Carmony dispels Linspire Linux myths (http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4429877679.html):
As for requiring you to run as root, that was, Carmony said, only the case with an early alpha release that was never put in the public's hands. Right, so it doesn't require you to run as root. It still defaults to it.

From Linspire Five-O (http://www.ffnn.nl/pages/reviews/linux/linspire-five-o.php):
With the installation and upgrade trouble out of the way I had to fill in a computer name and password. There's a very clear warning about losing the password: you don't need to fill in one, but if you do you're really supposed to remember it. As I later found out, this password is the root password, so losing it would equate to a total disaster for the user. As you can see from the details given and the screenshots, this person (like me) has actually installed and used Linspire. It's not just hearsay.

[wdo_will]

I'm not a big fan of Freespire myself. It has a washed out KDE interface that reminds me too much of Vi$ta, and is not nearly as fast as Ubuntu, which is hard for a Debian-based distro. And the desktop is waayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too cluttered for my tastes at the first bootup. Reminds me of a new Dell Computer running XP Home... scary.

Personally, I'm not that much of a fan of what they did with Firefox, either.

However, the installer is quite nice. Personally I prefer load a livecd to install (ubuntu) or anaconda (rhel, centos, fedora) better.

[lyceum]

Going back to the origianal topic, I tryed Linspire recently after reading a bad review from Linux Format. I found that it was a nice system. If you were new to computers, it would be a walk in the park compared to some other distros. The only problem I had with it was that it was just a Windows clone. If I knew nothing about PC and bought on with Freespire (or Linspire) I would think it was Windows and get upset when MS programs did not work. Other than that, if you are looking for a Linux for people that don't want to learn how to use computers and they understand it is not MS, this is a good one. I would still say stick with Ubuntu myself.

[Kernel Sanders]

The thing about freespire/linspire, is that they are the "apple" of the Linux world, minus all the DRM.

If you want to install a CD and have everything "just work" out of the box, and have everything you need right there, then Linsire/Freespire does just that!

If you like to tinker and play around with things, and if you like the terminal, Linspire/Freespire is not for you, and you should go with some other distro.

Linspire/Freespire is an excellent and polished product, but its not designed with power users in mind, and that is not a bad thing IMO.

[justin whitaker]

The thing about freespire/linspire, is that they are the "apple" of the Linux world, minus all the DRM.

If you want to install a CD and have everything "just work" out of the box, and have everything you need right there, then Linsire/Freespire does just that!

If you like to tinker and play around with things, and if you like the terminal, Linspire/Freespire is not for you, and you should go with some other distro.

Linspire/Freespire is an excellent and polished product, but its not designed with power users in mind, and that is not a bad thing IMO.

Agreed. I installed this on my Mother-in-laws' PC (one of my hand me downs), and it is pretty slick. Polished, just works, it's exactly as advertised.

The problem is that power users look at it and go "meh" because it's very easy to break when you start playing around with stuff. If you just leave it alone, use CNR, and use it for day to day stuff like surfing the web, balancing your checkbook, listening to a CD, it's perfect.

[Kernel Sanders]

Agreed. I installed this on my Mother-in-laws' PC (one of my hand me downs), and it is pretty slick. Polished, just works, it's exactly as advertised.

The problem is that power users look at it and go "meh" because it's very easy to break when you start playing around with stuff. If you just leave it alone, use CNR, and use it for day to day stuff like surfing the web, balancing your checkbook, listening to a CD, it's perfect.

Exactly!

Btw, apparently Freespire 2.0 is getting a brand new free and open source CNR, with a new repo management initiative which makes the repo's easier to manage and more up to date. For a noob, they should not need anything else :)

Excellent starter distro, or a distro for people who just want to use rather than play around with their computer IMO :)

[4KvRMU7Nnv]

ive seen it before...just don't like it that much...

[seth24]

OT? - hey guys i need some comments to see what you guys think of linspire / freespire.

i need to go online but all i have is netzero. since i havent been able to make it work, i wanna know if the netzero.deb file works fine in linspire/freespire

btw - im using my wii to type all this out

[aysiu]

Moved to Other OS Talk.

[RAV TUX]

merged here.

[jesus5511]

I was looking at screenshots of Freespire (I know, that's not what you're supposed to base an operating system on,) but I don't really use Linux that much, just when I'm temporarily fedup of using Windows, so I was just wondering, is Freespire a good choice? Or is it ******?

[Quillz]

Well, to me, the biggest draw of Freespire was Click 'N Run, although that is now becoming a cross-distro service, and is even being built into Ubuntu 7.04, IIRC.

Beyond that, I don't care much for it. I don't like how you run as a root user by default. I've always felt that it tries to make your Linux experience exactly like your Windows experience. There's nothing wrong with an easy to use desktop distro, but it should still run like Linux, and not like Windows.

[igknighted]

If you have used linux and like linux it is worthless and you will hate it. If you are trying to find an alternative to windows that will be easier to adapt to and have no strong love of linux and what it stands for or how it is supposed to work, then freespire might be for you. I'm probably in the minority, but I think CNR is the opposite of how software should be installed. It tries to make it windows like, and I think that is very flawed thinking. Packages and dependencies are different than windows, but in the end are far better. I actually prefer ebuilds and compiling programs I want to install, so CNR abhors me personally.

[jrusso2]

Well, to me, the biggest draw of Freespire was Click 'N Run, although that is now becoming a cross-distro service, and is even being built into Ubuntu 7.04, IIRC.

Beyond that, I don't care much for it. I don't like how you run as a root user by default. I've always felt that it tries to make your Linux experience exactly like your Windows experience. There's nothing wrong with an easy to use desktop distro, but it should still run like Linux, and not like Windows.

You don't run as root by default in freespire. You still need to use su just like ubuntu.

Linspire is the one that runs as root.

I have run both Freespire and Ubuntu.

Right now Ubuntu is better because Freespire is an old junky broken piece of junk.

But once they start basing it on Ubuntu they might have something good.

If you want the best of both try Linux Mint. Ubuntu with the non free stuff in it already.

Jeanette

[RAV TUX]

merging with the very long existing Freespire thread

[karellen]

I've tryed freespire 1.0....didn't like it...so no need to go back again, ubuntu it's much better suited for my needs

[DoeRayMe]

Has anyone here tested Freespire?

What are you opinions on the Distro?

Also if i download the Alpha release can i upgrade, to keep up with Development?

Thanks in advance

[crispy_420]

Freespire is decent. I tried it once when it first came out. It is alot like Ubuntu as both are based on Debian. And now that Linspire/Freespire have opened up click-and-run for multiple OS's, I see no reason to switch to Freespire. Don't get me wrong, it is decent just not great. And the company's CEO is active in the forums, he seems like a good guy there and in person.

As far as upgrading later, should be the same as Ubuntu and Debian. Recently that has been hit and miss. Look at the fiasco that was 6.06 to 6.10.

[DoeRayMe]

the reason i would like to install are the reasons:

1. Out-of-the-box support for multimedia codecs, flash etc.
2. needs to be debian based, so can upgrade to new releases

I am currently using Kubuntu Feisty, but prefer Ubuntu Feisty, except it installs alot of packages that i dont want, even with server install, with basic gnome stuff

any ideas?

[RAV TUX]

merging with the Freespire thread

[Eddie Wilson]

Just asking. When or why a poll get closed?
Eddie

[az_s_za]

Freespire 1.0 was the first Linux distro I tried. It was good for a newbie coming straight from Windows, but the CNR had so many broken and/or out-of-date packages that I very quickly learned how to use apt-get.

It was nice having all the codecs out of the box, but it had no support for multiple languages (I need Japanese) and was unable to read my SD cards.

So I switched to Ubuntu. Now I have all my hardware going, and write Japanese whenever I please.

I'll probably have a look at Freespire 2.0, which should, hopefully, be better now that it is based on Ubuntu.

However, I have one remaining question... will Freespire now be updated twice yearly like Ubuntu, or will the developers continue to struggle in this area?
There will be no point in using it if you have to wait ages between releases, and in the meantime have to put up with very out-dated packages with broken dependancies!

If Freespire can get their act together, it might become a distro worth recommending to newbies who will be scared off if they can't plug their new system in and watch their favorite movies straight away!

[neodarksaver]

I really liked the RC version of freespire 2, which is 1.9.0.

all my hardware drivers are installed automatically.

[Frak]

I like Freespire, its not a bad distribution. I would actually recommend it over ubuntu for beginners to use.
Though, I do NOT like Linspire, Freespire I have found actually works better in the long run. Plus you can use apt in Freespire, unlike Linspire.

[YRU12]

I downloaded the freespire iso 2.0.8. K3B did a great job of burning the iso to dvd. Config file did not work right. Freespire logo came up with the bootloaders. GUI loader was blue instead of orange like Ubuntu. Then got a lot of error messages of hda1 where it couldn't load Freespire to the computer. It sure tried though. Running Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon. I must say though I did like K3B. First time I got the iso to burn. I came away with respect for K3B because I really liked it.