Novell & Microsoft, how is Ubuntu affected?

[lyceum]

http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/community_open_letter.html

The link above is for anyone interesting Novell's stand on what they are doing with Microsoft. I don't think they made the best move, but if people are going to talk about it, the facts should come from the horse's mouth. I thought I would start a post for discution, and if you have other links on the topic, from Novell, they could be added.

My take:
I would not have made this move, but the damage is done. At this point we should figure out ways to use it to our advantage. One being Ubuntu on the server & on the desktop for those that no longer want to deal with Novell. Another being Linux in the news. People thast don't talk about PC maybe more willing to learn about Linux if they hear about it in the news. This is one think to keep in mind about all this that MS may not be thinking of. Getting Linux in the news is a VERY good thing. We should grab all the positive we can and use this as a opportunity to sell Linux/Ubuntu. MS & FOSS don't mix well, says MS? Using the two together may be illegal says MS? Then just use FOSS, as MS must not work very well. Played right, this could be as big of a nail in MS's coffin as they are trying to put in ours. Look what happened when the world realized that Mac was still around and that they were now cool! Everyone knows that MS does not play well with others. We should exploit this weakness.

I am not sure if this is the right place for this, but I keep seeing the topic. I thought it might be a good idea to make a place to gather information as to what is going on and ideas on how to use this to an advantage to help bring Ubuntu to the masses.

[cantormath]

Possible advantages:

I think the biggest advantage of the microsoft involvement with linux, assuming they do not screw us, is software companies would then be inspired to write code for linux. This would, I believe, force many hardware companies to support linux.

IE) Macromedia, adobe, visual studio, any many more products compiled for linux.

I hate this idea for two reasons.
1) it would probably hurt Macintosh. I would rather have mac then microsoft any day of the week.
2) I would not want microsoft to influence linux software. They have all the money need to make the best products in computing, and yet, they never do. Why should we let them influence linux?

[lyceum]

Possible advantages:

I think the biggest advantage of the microsoft involvement with linux, assuming they do not screw us, is software companies would then be inspired to write code for linux. This would, I believe, force many hardware companies to support linux.

IE) Macromedia, adobe, visual studio, any many more products compiled for linux.

It would seem, with the relice of Flash 9 beta, that Macromedia is already realizing the Linux is a platform they need to respect.

I think you are right about the hardware. I didn't think of that, but it should make companies realize that the FOSS world is not a hobby, it is a fully functional system that rivals the MS or Mac world and really is competing in the market place.


I hate this idea for two reasons.
1) it would probably hurt Macintosh. I would rather have mac then microsoft any day of the week.

Microsoft is a copy cat with no real drive to make anything new. I really can't see Mac being hurt here. The damage to them in the business world has already been done. They are just too expensive for businesses to by as a standard desktop. I really would like to see Mac try to jump into that market. At the same time, I don't want to see them make cheep machines. I fthey do, they will loose their nich as the "super computer" that is so much better than the PC. They are already moving closer and closer with their Intel chip in side now.



2) I would not want microsoft to influence linux software. They have all the money need to make the best products in computing, and yet, they never do. Why should we let them influence linux?

There are two sides to this, in one aspect, they already do. Look at how some FOSS programs copy MS programs. If they add code that is crappy, at least someone can fix it.

[neowolf]

Its all FUD on both sides IMO.
Take a look at Pascal Bleser's blog entry on the subject, over here (http://dev-loki.blogspot.com/2006/11/call-to-dump-suse-linux-wtf.html#comments)
- MS Pay Novell $500m for SLED/SLES licenses to support Novell's product
- Novell pays $40m to Microsoft for indemification which creates inroads into Microsoft shops and many businesses.
- Redhat gets a boost because people start taking Enterprise Linux more seriously now it is almost MS approved
- Ubuntu is top of Distrowatch so publicity about Linux certainly benefits it :)

If there really were patents on FOSS from MS they would take legal action, not indemify Novell and try to with Redhat; and in case of future action IBM is on the Linux side with its hude patent portfolio and the anti-trust regulators are still after MS in the EU.

[dca]

Indeed, thank God for big blue...

[lyceum]

Its all FUD on both sides IMO.
Take a look at Pascal Bleser's blog entry on the subject, over here (http://dev-loki.blogspot.com/2006/11/call-to-dump-suse-linux-wtf.html#comments)
- MS Pay Novell $500m for SLED/SLES licenses to support Novell's product
- Novell pays $40m to Microsoft for indemification which creates inroads into Microsoft shops and many businesses.
- Redhat gets a boost because people start taking Enterprise Linux more seriously now it is almost MS approved
- Ubuntu is top of Distrowatch so publicity about Linux certainly benefits it :)

If there really were patents on FOSS from MS they would take legal action, not indemify Novell and try to with Redhat; and in case of future action IBM is on the Linux side with its hude patent portfolio and the anti-trust regulators are still after MS in the EU.

I would agree there is FUD on both sides. I guess I am wondering if we can get out of the mud and use this to promote Ubuntu or FOSS with this. Mark tried to get some open SuSE developers to switch, if it was Mark that posted this. I really don't have all the info.

http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7246655736.html

I would really like to see Ubuntu get a hold of the server market. If there is money in it, development goes faster. But how to switch from number one desktop to ranking in the server market?

[lyceum]

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/11/27/2113210

Just FYI for anyone wanting openSuSE's Q&A

[Sslaxx]

What a crock of steaming excrement, lyceum. They'd have just have well stayed silent.

[dca]

The only thing this solves (Novell going into bed w/ the Devil) is the issue of 'virtualization' on servers... Because of M$'s crappy 'EULAs' on all their software, if you run Fedora Core and virtualize Server2k in it, you can get gigged. The rest of Ballmer's rants are all FUD...


The funny thing is how M$ wanted it the other way around...

BALLMER: "Well, how come they can't virtualize through Server 2007?"

HOVESPIAN: "Well look Steve, they just can't!"


By the by, that Xen on Fedora Core is pretty neat! :-D

[lyceum]

I found this link that give 13 things that this deal would make better:

http://www.linfo.org/why_ms_novell_good.html

I am not sure that I agree with everything said here, but it is a good read. I think it is funny that they talk about MS opening XML, but I don't know anyone that uses XML. It seems like they opened the code just to keep it alive, like so many other projects in the past (not MS progects). So will you now switch to XML to keep the open MS alive? I don't see any reason to.

[dvarsam]

Hello!


...Mark tried to get some open SuSE developers to switch, if it was Mark that posted this:

http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7246655736.html



There has been a great deal of heat in open-source circles over the Novell/Microsoft patent deal, but Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth, took it to a whole new level when he went to the main openSUSE list to invite OpenSUSE's developers to abandon Novell SUSE for Ubuntu.

I don't understand why Mark Shuttleworth did this...
It reminds me of those days when the MacOS in 1993-4 started licensing hardware production to:

1. umax
2. powerpc

The result was that the sub-licensees instead of attracting windows users to join the linux OS, they were eating market share from the Parent Apple company!!!
How st*pid was that...!!!

It seems to me, Mark Shuttleworth is shooting in the wrong direction!!!
He should have said this to the Windows programmers!

Not to the Linux OpenSuse programmers (a "cousin" OS in relation to Ubuntu).

Why did he do that?
To repeat what happened to Apple back in 1993?

Thanks.

[lyceum]

Hello!

I don't understand why Mark Shuttleworth did this...
It reminds me of those days when the MacOS in 1993-4 started licensing hardware production to:

1. umax
2. powerpc

The result was that the sub-licensees instead of attracting windows users to join the linux OS, they were eating market share from the Parent Apple company!!!
How st*pid was that...!!!

It seems to me, Mark Shuttleworth is shooting in the wrong direction!!!
He should have said this to the Windows programmers!

Not to the Linux OpenSuse programmers (a "cousin" OS in relation to Ubuntu).

Why did he do that?
To repeat what happened to Apple back in 1993?

Thanks.

I am sure that it seemed like a good idea at the time. After all, people were upset about the deal and he probably just wanted to let those that wanted to leave (if any) know they were welcome here. Hindsight is always 20/20. When I heard about it I really didn't think much of it, until it became a big deal.