UCLA Police Using Stun Gun On Student

[weatherman]

man I think this is really really scary
news: http://www.nbc4.tv/news/10325914/detail.html
youtube: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ucla+taser&search=Search
any comments on this?

[adam.tropics]

Seems a bit over the top doesn't it.

[mips]

Moral of the story, never forget your ID card...

Way overboard from what I've read. Have not seen the video though.

[fuscia]

kind of hard to tell what's going on from the back of people's heads. from what i could tell, from the video and various descriptions of what occurred, it seems like the guy was trying to be problematic. also, i know a lot of people i've already talked to about this are upset, but look at the way the cops were treating the rest of the somewhat vocal crowd.

[23meg]

The officers could just as well have grabbed him by the arms and thrown him out of the door instead of giving him multiple electricity shocks and instructing him to stand up a hundred times, when he probably can't. The way the case is handled is horribly wrong.

[d3v1ant_0n3]

At my GF's daughter's highschool, the police guy has a taser. As of yet (AFAIK) It's not been used on a student. But it can be if needed. This isn't a bad neighbourhood. It's just the 21st century, unfortunately. Kids are the lil angels they used to be, and their arsenal has escalated. The bad kids used to carry knives. Now they carry guns. Kinda scares me, personally. But then I'm english, therefore inherently afraid of firearms:p

[fuscia]

The officers could just as well have grabbed him by the arms and thrown him out of the door instead of giving him multiple electricity shocks and instructing him to stand up a hundred times, when he probably can't. The way the case is handled is horribly wrong.

i think there is more of a risk of physical harm to both police and the person being arrested when physical force is being used. a cop on another forum i belong to listed off the order of force to be used and tazing came before getting physical ('hard hand' he called it). he also mentioned that cops are required to be tazed themselves in training for the use of tazers.

[23meg]

Tasers can cause significiant harm in certain cases as well. The cases in which they are to be resorted to have to be delineated very clearly. If they come before getting physical in all cases, that's very bad.

Two strong policemen could have grabbed this definitely unarmed student and thrown him out, but since they're given the taser, it's perhaps more convenient to use it than not use it. I wonder if it's part of their instruction to tell a suspect to "stand up" after giving him the shock. Common sense says after incapacitating him with the shock (which was wrong in the first place), they should have grabbed him from the floor and thrown him out.

[fuscia]

I wonder if it's part of their instruction to tell a suspect to "stand up" after giving him the shock. Common sense says after incapaciating him with the shock (which was wrong in the first place), they should have grabbed him from the floor and thrown him out.

i guess it depends on how long the effect of the taser lasts. do you know?

[23meg]

Perhaps it varies, according to the gun, how much current is transferred (through clothes of different thickness for example) and duration of contact. In any case, the aim of giving the shock should be incapacitating for arrest, which is more than achieved here with the first shock, not making the suspect comply through torture.

[Macintosh Sauce]

It sickens me to no end at what the police will do to some people.

[BLTicklemonster]

They should have just split his head open with a night stick and got it over with. A lot easier to chunk a slab of beef out the door than a freaking idiot who doesn't have the sense to show the law some respect.

Note to self: Cops - be nice to them at all times.

[Macintosh Sauce]

They should have just split his head open with a night stick and got it over with. A lot easier to chunk a slab of beef out the door than a freaking idiot who doesn't have the sense to show the law some respect.

Note to self: Cops - be nice to them at all times.
I respect authority, because my mother taught me to do respect all people. Otherwise, she would have beaten my ***. LOL

I would not mouth off to a police officer unless I felt that the officer was overstepping his/her bounds in some way. That is the problem today - give a police officer a gun or tazer and they feel empowered to do whatever the hell he/she wishes. I have met many wonderful people that serve as police officers. There are always bad apples in every crowd though.

[AlphaMack]

It's old news now but here is the gist of what happened:

1. A CSO asked for his ID at random. The student later, through his lawyer, stated that he refused to cooperate because he believed that he was being racially profiled.

2. CSO called for backup.

3. The student was already leaving when two officers stopped him and grabbed him (thus where the video begins).

IMO at this point the officers should have just watched him leave or escorted him out.

4. The student was tasered at least 5 times. Students were gathering around the officers and pleading for them to stop.

5. At one point an officer threatened another student with the taser (toward the end of the video).

Though the student should have shown his ID, the incident hardly warranted what transpired. It was clearly an abuse of police power (if the amount of tasering and yelps of pain after having been jolted weren't obvious enough). To those who suggest much harsher punishment on the student, you people are sick.

[sgstarling]

The problem is, one should be feel just as able to 'mouth off' to a police officer as to a 'civilian'.

Tasing to get some one to do something is a form of torture.

"Papers please! Show me your papers, or else!" <shudders>

[coastdweller]

The problem is, one should be feel just as able to 'mouth off' to a police officer as to a 'civilian'.

Tasing to get some one to do something is a form of torture.

"Papers please! Show me your papers, or else!" <shudders>

Can you reword your post? It's unreadable lol

Ubuntu much?

[BLTicklemonster]

One must remember that mouthing off to officers is an art best practiced when one is not in a hostile situation.

oh, and if you feel the need to mouth off to a cop in the first place... you got some serious issues.

[teet]

I was quite shocked by this video.

However, I quickly realized that the video does not show the whole event...only the end when they started tasing him. I'm going to reserve judgment until they release an official report of what happened.

-teet

[NoTiG]

IMO he was baiting the officers. You can hear from the video he has some kind of condition where he starts getting verbally belligerent before any tasing begins. I also suspect that he was probably overreacting to the tasing but who knows.......

What is really interesting about this situation though is how hard it is these days to get away with anything. So many cellphones, everybody basically has a video camera in their pocket now and how its so easy to post on youtube to broadcast yourself... it just seems pretty cool.

[adam.tropics]

BTTicklemonster: Agreed, but at the end of all the debate, the response simply wasn't close to being in proportion to the threat.

[fuscia]

Perhaps it varies, according to the gun, how much current is transferred (through clothes of different thickness for example) and duration of contact. In any case, the aim of giving the shock should be incapacitating for arrest, which is more than achieved here with the first shock, not making the suspect comply through torture.

so, like me, you have no idea how much power was used and how incapacitating the shocks are. the shocks certainly didn't incapacitate him vocally. this guy could have been everything from being tortured to putting on a giant show.

[adam.tropics]

...but the guy was clearly outnumbered anyway and could just as well been escorted out. We are talking about a book wielding student, not a gun toting terrorist!

[fuscia]

...but the guy was clearly outnumbered anyway and could just as well been escorted out.

the video doesn't tell us if he were willing to be escorted out, or not. it seems unlikely that a bunch of cops brutalizing one student would show so much retraint in dealing with an encroaching larger number (the rest of the students in the video).


We are talking about a book wielding student, not a gun toting terrorist!

did he hit one of the cops with a book? i missed that.

[adam.tropics]

the video doesn't tell us if he were willing to be escorted out, or not. it seems unlikely that a bunch of cops brutalizing one student would show so much restraint in dealing with an encroaching larger number (the rest of the students in the video).
did he hit one of the cops with a book? i missed that.

a) Willing? Surely it's possible to escort someone out regardless, without either excessive force or taser (spelling?)? Nightclubs have been doing it for years!

b) Poor explanation on my part, the point being, there really doesn't seem to have been any real threat, just stubbornness.

[adam.tropics]

Also did they follow their own policy (http://www.ucpd.ucla.edu/ucpd/zippdf/2006/Taser_Policies.pdf). I don't really think they did, since they are meant to consider..


(d) The nature of the offense involved,
(e) The level of resistance of the individual(s) involved,
(f) The need for prompt resolution of the situation,
(g) If time permits (e.g. passive demonstrators), other reasonable alternatives.

[BLTicklemonster]

Half a life ago, I was a bouncer (drinking age was 18 then) and if I had had a taser back then, stock in the company that made the little wires would have skyrocketed. I talked my way out of a lot of situations, and would always had rather have done it that way, but there were some fellows... nothing you could do would make them understand that they were not getting their way, well, except for physical force, that is. Yeah, tasers, I was definitely born too soon.

[fuscia]

a) Willing? Surely it's possible to escort someone out regardless, without either excessive force or taser (spelling?)? Nightclubs have been doing it for years!

it's possible, if they are willing. if they are not willing, the measures needed exceed the boundaries of 'escorting'.


b) Poor explanation on my part, the point being, there really doesn't seem to have been any real threat, just stubbornness.

so, you think they just should have let him stay?