Hydrogen HHO Gas

[Patrick K.]

TechSonic Network News Post
http://www.techsonic.net/home/comment.php?comment.news.5

Discuss post here or there.

FYI, old news post, just posting it here.

[mips]

I'm not big on conspiracy theories but when it comes to alternative fuels i find it hard to believe we have not progressed much further. I kinda believe oil companies have a hand in this.

[Patrick K.]

I'm not big on conspiracy theories but when it comes to alternative fuels i find it hard to believe we have not progressed much further. I kinda believe oil companies have a hand in this.

It's been proven that oil companies have had a hand in it. They have actually bought out just about every person who has come up with hydrogen technology up till now.

The guy featured in the videos was confronted by several oil companies to sell his patent on it, several times. They have even gone as far as threating him. Now that he is working for the government, they can't do anything to him or else they would be discovered.

[atlien]

The hydrogen angle seems a bit silly to me because, although clean, you still need lots of energy to even get the hydrogen.

More significant is the fact that the Model T, as in the year 1908, got 25 miles per gallon. Better than many cars in 2007.

It doesn't take rocket scientist to know that a conspiracy must be at work to keep fuel economy stagnant for an entire century while simultaneously having the most technological advance in the history of the human species.

It's difficult to believe we fall for the gas conspiracy. It's pretty obvious.

[DrainBead]

I run my car on biodiesel only, it costs me less in a year than gasoline would cost me a week, it is renewable and it releases less co2 into the atmosphere than an etanol engine.

Biodiesel is excellent if you have a car industry that likes to produce diesel cars, you don't, one of the greatest crops for it is corn, you have a lot but you don't like diesel so you use more energy than you can get out of it to make ethanol.

How about this... Get with the program, it's biodiesel and electric that is the answer in the near future.

[seijuro]

Ethanol can be produced effeciently from a weed that grows easily with little to no tending, however the US gov forces us to use corn and the cheaper ethanol made from the weed that is imported from friendly south american countries gets a 100% tarif on it while petrol from hostile countries has 0 tarif. So just because the guy is working for the gov doesn't mean the oil companies can't touch him they are being bought out too.

[DrainBead]

Ethanol can be produced effeciently from a weed that grows easily with little to no tending, however the US gov forces us to use corn and the cheaper ethanol made from the weed that is imported from friendly south american countries gets a 100% tarif on it while petrol from hostile countries has 0 tarif. So just because the guy is working for the gov doesn't mean the oil companies can't touch him they are being bought out too.

It could but it would it would still be less efficiant than using the corn already grown on the land for biodiesel.

The Ethanol you import is made from sugar canes, grown and harvested by men making less a week than you make in an hour.

Biodiesel is reality, people are actually getting togheter to grow it in the EU (where their farmers, just as your farmers are paid NOT to grow crops on their land) and you can take your regular turbodiesel Saab or Mercedes or VW and drive on it without anything else changed (the chip will adjust the combustion).

You could fry your fries, filter the oil through a regular paper filter and pour it into your diesel car and drive on it, THAT is how simple biodiesel is.

The car industry has a heckuvalot of say in this, more than you think.

[0815-neuling]

I am very sceptical about alternative fuels:

First of all: Hydrogen is not really a fuel - just because it is no source of energy as it does not occur naturally (at least not on earth). To produce it you need more energy than if you directly used that energy to power your engine. Second great problem with hydrogen: it slippes through any material unless it isn't cooled down until it get's liquid. That is also very energy-drawing. So it is no good storage of energy either (up to now).

Bio-fuel is an alternative to oil, but you shoud notice, that it burns much more dirty than gas and oil, so the environment would take serious damage if we burned it the way we do with our gasoline. Also the argument, that bio-fuel is co2-neutral is untrue. Burning grown gasoline produces just the same amount of carbon dioxide like burning oil and the underlying plant erases not more or less co2 while growing if you burn it or not. The only way to limit co2 emissions that way would be to use them as the only source of energy (then you coud not poduce more co2 than is beeing used). But that would seriously be the very end of every rainforest on earth (just watch south america)

[RAV TUX]

It appears HHO gas may be a hoax:

HHO Gas...hoax? (http://cafelinux.org/forum/index.php/topic,76.0.html)

[3rdalbum]

HHO - isn't that dihydrogen oxide, or H2O?

What energy does that have?

[ljpm]

The energy requirement for converting H2O into H2 and 1/2 O2 is the same as the energy obtained when H2 and 1/2 O2 is converted into H2O. If one was able to utilize 100% of the energy produced in the conversion of hydrogen and oxygen into water you would only be able recover the energy you put in to separate the water into H2 and 1/2 O2. (In a real life situation you can only hope for about 35% conversion of the energy obtain by burning hydrogen fuel)


Jim, PhD Chemistry

[RAV TUX]

The difference I believe is more on how they are derived(the process).

(unfortunately this may be a hoax)

[ljpm]

HHO - isn't that dihydrogen oxide, or H2O?

What energy does that have?

Everything (generalization, so please don't go getting esoteric) has energy. The trick is being able to extract the energy. To do this you must convert the substance to a substance of lower energy. This can be difficult for water but not imposible. For instance, ground water is used to heat houses in the summer and cool them in the winter but heat (energy) transfer. This however works by converting the latent heat energy an not chemically.

To use H2O or water as an energy source in a car you will have to convert it to something else with a lower energy. This is not practical.

[ljpm]

The difference I believe is more on how they are derived(the process).

HHO and H2O are the same. The process in which they are derived are meaningless. It is like saying a chemical isolated from a natural source is different from the one synthesized chemically.

[Erik Trybom]

I'm getting a bit fed up with the argument that Ethanol is "energy negative" or that alternative fuel "takes more energy to produce than you can get out of it".

Of course it takes more energy to produce than the energy it delivers. Everything does. Ever heard of the first law of thermodynamics?

Compare the fuel to a battery. When loading the battery, you put energy into it. When using the battery, you draw energy from it - but you won't get out 100% of the energy you put in, because of inefficiency. That's OK however since a battery is nothing but a device to bring the energy along with you. If you're close to a power cable you don't need a battery.

It's the same thing with hydrogen fuel. Yes, it takes a lot of energy to produce, but once you have it you can use it to power a car. Would it have been more efficient to use the energy directly? Yes, it would - but then you'd have to have a cable attached to the car, and a special road to provide it. (Railroads and metros work this way.)

Fossil fuel is really not an exception but a special case. Oil is organic material that has been processed through thousands of years, and there has been a tremendous amount of energy put into it. When we pump it up we can get more energy out of it than WE put in, but not more than was EVER put into it. And while we're doing so, we are straining the world's resources. Anyone can see that if we consume the oil more rapidly than it builds anew - and we do, trust me - it will become more and more scarce.

Ethanol can be made out of several organic materials - wood, grain and so on. As an energy source it might be poor compared to any kind of power plant, but as a battery it's excellent. And that's why it really doesn't matter if it's "energy negative" or not. It's supposed to power our cars, not power our homes.

[happy-and-lost]

I think we're barking up the wrong tree with hydrogen; it takes more energy to obtain it than you can obtain from it.

Whilst not ideal, so called "biofuel" may be a better way forward. I read in a science journal (it was just lying around the common room, can't remember which one) that to obtain 100mJ of energy from "biofuels", only 35mJ needs to be put in, which is more efficient than most other forms of energy.

However, burning ethanol will not solve the problem of the increasing amounts of carbon dioxide being pumped into the atmosphere.

On a lighter note... a thousandth of a gram of antimatter could power a car for 10000 years (apparently)... :twisted:

[macogw]

Everything (generalization, so please don't go getting esoteric) has energy.

Actually, that's not a generalization that's almost always true but sometimes fails. No-energy-at-all would be 0 Kelvin, and that has never been found naturally nor synthesized. The lowest temperature found naturally is 1K in the Boomerang Nebula, 5000 miles from Earth. The lowest synthesized temperature is 450pK or 4.5x10^-10 K or 0.00000000045K (if I counted the 0's properly) at MIT.

[Albi]

There's really no reason to use alternative fuels other than the emissions. Petroleum is rich in biological molecules and used in thousands of products, and before cars were invented, gasoline was just a by-product that was thrown away. Using alternative fuels may help slow down the demand for petroleum, but there is no way it is going to make a major difference considering the many other things it's used for.

[ljpm]

Actually, that's not a generalization that's almost always true but sometimes fails. No-energy-at-all would be 0 Kelvin, and that has never been found naturally nor synthesized. The lowest temperature found naturally is 1K in the Boomerang Nebula, 5000 miles from Earth. The lowest synthesized temperature is 450pK or 4.5x10^-10 K or 0.00000000045K (if I counted the 0's properly) at MIT.

:lolflag: Hence the "dont' get esoteric....:lolflag:

[ljpm]

However, burning ethanol will not solve the problem of the increasing amounts of carbon dioxide being pumped into the atmosphere.



Not true. When you grow the plant that the ethanol is going to be produced from you remove CO2 from the atmosphere. Burning said ethanol simply replaces the CO2 that was consumed, hence carbon neutral.

[bobbybobington]

HHO - isn't that dihydrogen oxide, or H2O?

What energy does that have?

Not Exactly. HHO gas is a mixture of hydrogen gas oxygen gas, not to be confused with gaseous water (steam). HHO gas can be ignited to form water. During this reaction energy is released in the form of heat and light. That energy can be used to power an internal combustion engine, much like gasoline.

HHO gas can be obtained from running electricity (oversimplification) through water. The electrical energy is converted to potential chemical energy of the HHO gas. This is similar to a battery, as electrical energy is converted to chemical energy. but the similarities end when the chemical energy is converted to another form. HHO could be useful for cars, because it would work much like a battery, except you could use it in existing internal combustion engines in almost all vehicles.

Assuming you get you electricity to make HHO gas comes from clean, renewable sources you could have a non-polluting, renewable fuel that would work in almost every gasoline vehicle without reliance on any oil companies. This is why oil companies are afraid, and they should be, because if it could work at an acceptable efficiency their entire business is screwed.

[ljpm]

Not Exactly. HHO gas is a mixture of hydrogen gas oxygen gas, not to be confused with gaseous water (steam). HHO gas can be ignited to form water. During this reaction energy is released in the form of heat and light. That energy can be used to power an internal combustion engine, much like gasoline.

HHO gas can be obtained from running electricity (oversimplification) through water. The electrical energy is converted to potential chemical energy of the HHO gas. This is similar to a battery, as electrical energy is converted to chemical energy. but the similarities end when the chemical energy is converted to another form. HHO could be useful for cars, because it would work much like a battery, except you could use it in existing internal combustion engines in almost all vehicles.

Assuming you get you electricity to make HHO gas comes from clean, renewable sources you could have a non-polluting, renewable fuel that would work in almost every gasoline vehicle without reliance on any oil companies. This is why oil companies are afraid, and they should be, because if it could work at an acceptable efficiency their entire business is screwed.

Sorry but that is crap.

If HHO is water with oxygen in it then what is burning (burning being oxidation)? You have no fuel. (ie nothing to burn). Additionally, where is the Oxygen coming from? If you are creating Oxygen then Hydrogen is also created and it is the hydrogen that is the fuel, the substance that is oxidized.

Even in an ideal situation you can only obtain the same amount of energy from the burning of hydrogen as you put into the water to separate H2O into hydrogen and oxygen. In fact you would be lucky to obtain a 40% return on the energy you put in.

H2O + energy ------------> H2 + 1/2 O2 (energy coming from electricity)

H2 + 1/2 O2 -------------> H2O + energy (energy obtained by burning H2)


If you start with water and the only biproduct is water, then where is the energy coming from.

[bobbybobington]

You misunderstood me. I said that HHO is a combination of hydrogen & oxygen gas, not water and oxygen. I also said that HHO is a means to transfer energy (like a battery). The energy would come from power plants and it could be an alternative to gasoline, if it the energy could be converted from one form to the other efficiently enough to be cost effective. You pretty much just said everything I did without realizing it, but i think you perhaps explained it more clearly.

[ljpm]

You misunderstood me. I said that HHO is a combination of hydrogen & oxygen gas, not water and oxygen. I also said that HHO is a means to transfer energy (like a battery). The energy would come from power plants and it could be an alternative to gasoline, if it the energy could be converted from one form to the other efficiently enough to be cost effective. You pretty much just said everything I did without realizing it, but i think you perhaps explained it more clearly.


My bad. I did misread you post. I thought you had said water and oxygen, but I still think HHO is a crock.

Hydrogen can and is being used to power cars. HHO is something different. The two should not be confused.

HHO always seems to be marketed to give the impression that you can fill your car up with water, a generator converts water into HHO and then this is used to fuel your car.

Problems:
You can't convert water into HHO with out putting in more energy then you are going to get out, therefore you cannot simply fill your car with water and have an onboard generator convert it to HHO for use by the car. You would require more "gas" to run the generator then you would need to run the car.
A mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is extremely explosive, much more explosive than hydrogen on its own. If you were to create the HHO and fill up the car how do you keep it from exploding?


Additionally, why call it HHO if it is simply hydrogen and oxygen?

HHO is a crock. It is simply a marketing tool that has convinced people they can fuel their cars with water and the oil companies are blocking the technology.
Hydrogen fuel may have its uses, provided a way can be found to safely transport it (keep in mind that it must be safe in collisions as well) and it can be produced in large scale in an environmentally way.
Ethanol and Biodiesel are both carbon neutral. The carbon produced by burning them replaces the carbon taken from the atmosphere as they were grown. But, and a big but, carbon neutrality is not the only source of pollution. There is also nitorgen oxides that are produced during combustion (ever wonder what that brown cloud hanging over major cities in the summer is).

[insane_alien]

HHO is a hoax. i've been in a debate about it a few years back and i found out that the guy was claiming that the molcule has a H-H-O chemical structure. this dosn't exist. moreover, this CANNOT exist. it would violate the pauli exclusion principle.

recreating his apparatus from general descriptions(the guy won't release proper plans or let people disassemble his kit) only produces normal hydrogen/oxygen mix. this is pretty explosive and unsafe. its a hoax, don't believe the crappy science and don't try it yourself unless you know how to handle explosive gases.

[RAV TUX]

HHO is a hoax. i've been in a debate about it a few years back and i found out that the guy was claiming that the molcule has a H-H-O chemical structure. this dosn't exist. moreover, this CANNOT exist. it would violate the pauli exclusion principle.

recreating his apparatus from general descriptions(the guy won't release proper plans or let people disassemble his kit) only produces normal hydrogen/oxygen mix. this is pretty explosive and unsafe. its a hoax, don't believe the crappy science and don't try it yourself unless you know how to handle explosive gases.

This is very important to know....can you please post some links &/or more information that expose this as a hoax.

Thanks for your valuable contribution.

[RAV TUX]

Actually a search on Wikipedia exposes you are correct:


Aquygen or HHO gas is an allegedly unique molecular arrangement of gas; the byproduct of a form of electrolysis a businessman named Denny Klein in Clearwater, Florida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearwater%2C_Florida) claims to have developed. James Randi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi) said it is little more than a combination of pseudoscience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience) and conventional electrolysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis), which has been known about for well over a century.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_note-0) The technology he espouses is claimed to electrolyze water for use as an "alternative to and enhancer of fossil fuels." According to a paper published by controversial physicist Ruggero Santilli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruggero_Santilli) in the International Journal of Hydrogen Energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Journal_of_Hydrogen_Energy), GC-MS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GC-MS) found unusual "clusters of individual atoms" in the mixture, which Santilli claims are held together by the "magnecular bonds" of his theories.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_note-1) This alleged technology was uncritically presented on several advertisement-like programs, including CNN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN) and Fox news (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_news)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_note-2), but has not undergone the scrutiny of peer reviewed scientific literature.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]
The claims made by Klein are similar to those of Stanley Meyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer),[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] who was convicted of fraud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud) in Ohio for an alleged water fuel cell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fuel_cell) design which would have theoretically violated the Law of Conservation of Energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Conservation_of_Energy).[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]
Due to the resemblance of these claims to previous hoaxes[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] and Denny Klein's failure to publish anything about his technology in recognized scientific peer-reviewed journals, or to submit his technologies to professional scrutiny, this phenomena has very little credibility in the realm of actual physics.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]
Contents



1 Alleged variation of electrolysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#Alleged_variation_of_electrolysis)
1.1 Claimed practical applications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#Claimed_practical_applications)
1.1.1 Welding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#Welding)
1.1.2 As a fuel or fuel additive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#As_a_fuel_or_fuel_additive)
1.2 Criticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#Criticism)
2 See also (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#See_also)
Alleged variation of electrolysis

According to Klein, the electrolyzer is "common ducted", which he claims produces a hydrogen and oxygen mixture that is molecularly different from the oxyhydrogen mixture produced in typical independently ducted electrolyzers;[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] according to the promotional website oxyhydrogen contains a 2:1 ratio of diatomic hydrogen and oxygen, whereas the result of common ducting produces additional molecular configurations other than purely H2 and O2. [4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_note-3)
This gas is given a variety of names, such as HHO gas (Hybrid Hydrogen Oxygen), Brown's Gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brown%27s_Gas&action=edit) (for Yull Brown), Rhodes Gas, or Green Gas.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_note-4) It is claimed to contain a variety of hydrogen and oxygen allotropes in accordance with the "magnecule" theory[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] proposed by controversial physicist Ruggero Santilli; for example, according to chromatography there are large quantities of 5 atom hydrogen allotropes, and large quantities of monatomic oxygen.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]
He reports finding H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen)2 and O (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen)2 in the mixture's chromatography results, as expected, but also claims significant peaks at the following atomic weights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_weight): 2, 5, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 24, 25, 26, 27, 33, 34, and 40, formed during the electrolysis process.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_note-Santilli_2006)

Claimed practical applications


Welding

The allegedly unique variant of the electrolysis process was originally claimed to be useful for welding/soldering torches, able to weld glass, copper, aluminum, and carbon steel.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] During the demonstration on CNN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN) this was the only process seen. Though, a welding torch utilizing electrolysis is certainly a valid idea, what was seen on air did not necessarily match the claims of the broadcast.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] For instance, a ball made of steel which was heated and seen to turn bright red was not seen to melt, yet the journalist stated it had turned to liquid steel when it was still clearly solid and structurally resilient. The type of torch used would not have a hot tip under ordinary circumstances of use even though the flame a short distance from the tip would be extremely hot,[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] yet Klein states only a torch using his unique form of gas would behave this way, which is not an accurate statement to say the least.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] The fact that the gas is ignited a distance away from the tip is why many forms of blow torches do not melt themselves.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]

As a fuel or fuel additive

Klein's website claimed that the gas was useful as a "primary fuel source or a fuel additive" for water-fueled cars, and proclaims, "Imagine cutting steel or running a car with ordinary water." Klein has been featured in local news programs, videos of which are shown on the company website and have been passed around the Internet.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] The videos claim that the gas can be used by itself to fuel cars and electrical generators.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] They are far from explicit. [7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_note-5)
The only demonstration of the technology in a car, however, is a hybrid vehicle that allegedly uses the electrolyzed gas as a fuel additive in combination with gasoline.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] News reports claim that this improves engine efficiency by 50%,[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] but no substantiation has been offered by Klein beyond that.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] Klein says, "On a hundred mile trip, we use about 4 ounces of water".[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] These designs and claims were not subjected to any sort of rigorous scientific scrutiny.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] Aside from the outrageous fuel efficiency Klein claims, the performance and design of his vehicle could be explained by battery powered design that utilizes, possibly ostensibly, some conventional form of electrolysis.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]

Criticism

The radical claims of Klein's alleged technology remain unscrutinized by any sort of peer reviewed scientific literature.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] James Randi has censured this alleged technology as fraud. Though such novel molecular arrangements have been hypothesized by physicists in peer reviewed literature dating back to the seventies,[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)] and electrolysis is certainly a valid process, neither Klein's claim to produce a novel molecular arrangement nor the outrageous claims of his alleged invention's applications have been subject to such scrutiny.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]

See also

Water-fuelled car (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car)
Water fuel cell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fuel_cell) References

^ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_ref-0) Fire water (http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-05/052606action.html#i3). Swift: Online Newsletter of the JREF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation) (May 26, 2006). Retrieved on 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007)-03-01 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1).
^ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_ref-1) Santilli, Ruggero Maria (2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006)-02-17 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_17)). "The Novel 'Controlled Intermediate Nuclear Fusion' and its Possible Industrial Realization as Predicted by Hadronic Mechanics and Chemistry". arXiv (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArXiv):physics/0602125 (http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0602125). Retrieved on 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007)-03-01 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1).
DEFINITION: Santilli’s magnecules are stable clusters consisting of individual atoms (H, C, O, etc.), dimers (OH, CH, etc.) and ordinary molecules (CO, H2O, etc.) bonded together by opposing magnetic polarities originating from toroidal polarizations of the orbitals of atomic electrons. Numerous new substances with magnecular structures have been identified experimentally to date, among which we indicate MagneGas, MagneHydrogen, HHO, and others under industrial development.

^ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_ref-2) http://hytechapps.com/company/press
^ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_ref-3) Aquygen website
^ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_ref-4) That HHO iddea isn't new (http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-06/060906just.html#i3). Swift: Online Newsletter of the JREF (June 9, 2006). Retrieved on 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007)-03-01 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1).
^ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_ref-Santilli_2006_0) Santilli, Ruggero Maria (August 2006). "A new gaseous and combustible form of water". International Journal of Hydrogen Energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Journal_of_Hydrogen_Energy) 31 (9): pp. 1113-1128. DOI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_object_identifier):10.1016/j.ijhydene.2005.11.006 (http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.ijhydene.2005.11.006). Retrieved on 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007)-02-20 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_20). (Excerpt (http://www.waterfuelconverters.com/WhatisBrownsGas.html#Chromatography))
^ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#_ref-5) YouTube search for "Denny Klein"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas

insane_alien http://ubuntuforums.org/images/uf/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2259945#post2259945) Thank you for your valuable input.

[insane_alien]

This is very important to know....can you please post some links &/or more information that expose this as a hoax.

Thanks for your valuable contribution.

i'll see if i can find the debate on the forum it was held on.

EDIT: http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20763&highlight=water+fuel This is the only one i could find, its not the origional one but its just as good, if not better.

[stan2]

There are some things missing or dead wrong in these answers
Firstly it takes a great deal of energy to Crack Gasoline
just lucky the material cracked has more H in it that the H energy used to extract it.
Secondly while the almighty engines are called heat engines
they are much closer to explosion engines. also missing in these answers, is the question can HHO increase the Explosion, the hho mix does add H and does add pure O. As our current engines are
so inefficient, a boost may help the explosion, Further some car
manufactures are looking to build their higher MPG engines with this hho mix. Finally in not one answer have I seen an answer of
someone trying it??? As such I am going to build one for a small
generator and see what really happens. Recall adding acetone
does work....bigger bang of the existing fuel. HHO may be doing the same thing. Finally it now cheaper to make Hydrogen from
domestic electrical costs in many parts of the world and that is
at the retail price. . In our country the base cost of Kw is
2 cents......sold for 6.015 cents 2008. Using 54 kw to make
Hydrogen is now presently priced right compared to the Hydrogen
we have extracting from the ground wells.
Gas is C8H12, oil is C12,H22 or near abouts.

a better answer would read here are my results

Food for fuel when the in fracture is built alcohol will be
replaced with butunol. which has a higher H content it can produce 80% per gallon rather than 60% for ethanol compared to gas. It has a bigger bang.

[macogw]

:lolflag: Hence the "dont' get esoteric....:lolflag:
I took it as him not wanting anyone to argue "it is *totally* possible for something to not have energy! your generalization is wrong, and here's the science to prove you wrong!" I just gave the science to prove him right.

[aheathr]

I have made my cells but they are not bubbling like they should. What could i be doing wrong? any help would be great. thanks

[phrostbyte]

I am personally very skeptical of anything that violates the second law of thermodynamics.