English~ English~ -0-

[Se7EnNi9E]

I am Korean.

I have been studying English since 1992.

But I am not good at English.

Most of Korean has a common problem.

They studied English over 10 years,but they can't speak English well.

In my country,to get a job,they must study the TOEIC.

There are many people that have the result over 900 points.

But they can't do well.

The reason is that they don't know English well ,however they know to solve the problems very well.

I want to be good at English. But it is very hard.

Why? Why? Why?

Please tell me how to do English well.

[Leif]

I have plenty of friends who've studied in English for 10+ years without actually learning it properly too. They were generally taught by non-native speakers, and only learned enough to pass tests.

The best thing you could do would be to practice with a native speaker. Failing that, read English newspapers and books, and if you can get the channels, watch CNN, BBC etc. Only by immersing yourself in the language will you be comfortable with it.

[bored2k]

I'm from Dominican Republic. My main language is spanish. My mom started me in english when I was like 4 or 5, but soon enough I noticed I was in class with like 15 yr old students and I got tired and quit like a year after. For me the key to learning english is to get involved with the language. Watch a LOT of subbed english movies, so that you could learn new words right away just by looking at the text on screen. Try to read, watch and talk english for at least 10 minutes a day. This is coming from a guy that learned his english by watching subbed HBO, a lot of english movies and visiting USA every year. I basically immersed myself in the culture. I'm 18 and I can maintain a conversation with anyone. I'm finishing my french studies [6 months left] and It's still the same formula. Watch 10 minutes minimum a day, get into conv. with someone, don't be afraid to make mistakes --you learn from them.

[sonny]

If you can't get a conversation with an english native-speaker, you'd probably have to read at loud, buy yourself some light english literature and read it at loud, and get an english-english dictionary; because in most of them there's the way you pronounce the word, and the way you should use it, and of course your vocabulary will grow. The advise on the CNN, BBC and HBO channel is quite good, I've also learn quite a few new word in english. But to be REALLY good, you should probably be thinking of going to UK or USA a year or so, in an exchange travel; I went to UK for a year and got my english improved, there's a school for foreing students where they teach them how to write, speak, and read english. And of course you get to know many peaople from VERY diferent cultures. If you¿re interested in it here (http://www.relsa.com/angloeuro.htm) is the link. Keep trying that's the only way.

[mangar]

i'm from israel, and english isn't my native language as well.
the most important factor for having good understanding of english,
was, in my case, by reading lots of books (in english).

in my case it was easy, as my favorite authors: terry pratchett, douglas adams,
etc, where not translated to hebrew at the time i was in elementry school, so i
had an early head start.

my accent still suck, though. (hebrew uses hard vowels, english uses softer ones.
when i speak english it's something like "i wen't to' de ru'm" for "i went to the room" -
hard stops after every vowel)

my english was, thereafter, good enough for allow excemption from scientific english
courses at the university.

in short: read books.


(oh, yes: mangar isn't a proper name in hebrew)

[oddabe19]

English is one of the hardest languages to learn.... quite honestly it sucks for people that don't grow up with it as a primary language....
I was fortunate enough to be born in the United States... where english is the primary language...

I can't even speak it right after 22 years and living here.... I can't imagine how hard it is for others....

[Thomas Schneller]

English is one of the hardest languages to learn.... quite honestly it sucks for people that don't grow up with it as a primary language....
I was fortunate enough to be born in the United States... where english is the primary language...

I can't even speak it right after 22 years and living here.... I can't imagine how hard it is for others....
Please tell me how to do English well.

Practice. Read, hear, write, speak. I didn't do well in English before joining an international company with English as the language used in the working enviroment.

English is one of the hardest languages to learn....

Ups. I dont see that. Was easy for me. My native language is German. Apart from that I speak some Italien, little Spanish and a good piece of French. English was the easiest one. And if I think of Asien languages, where I don't have any chance to read anything at all.... oh..... really, English wasn't that hard. But to mention that, speacially Amerikan English is easy in my opinion. If I speak with British people, I have more difficulties to understand them. Not to mention Irish or hardest Scottisch people. But might be the same for people listening to Bavarian acents while able to speak German. I live in Bavaria right now. I was not born in Bavaria, but live here now for 16 years. And depending on the region is still hard to understand this folks.

Anyhow, it's known from studies, that every language has it typicall frequency range. And the ears and brain need to adjust in ordere to understand the language. I was in Asia some time ago. And belive me, I did some self teaching to understand some basic words before. But I wasen't able to identifie them in the blurblurblur around me there. It was just nois for my ears and brain. So I think, most important is to listen to a language you want to learn. Reading is important as well. But only listening will teach you how to communicate in this language.

Thomas

(Who is a lazy guy but would like to understand and speak every language on this planet.)

[escuchamezz]

English is a screwed up language, just like Visual Basic :smile:

[kanem]

English should be easier to learn for a native German speaker. It's a Germanic language.

I (a native english speaker) can look at german and see how the structure is so similar that all one really has to do is translate the words. But going from english to a romantic language requires one to think differently to form the structure correctly.

[Thomas Schneller]

Just to mention it:

It's a Germanic language.

it's anglo-germanic. At least that the term the liguistic sience is using.

But going from english to a romantic language

I like romantic languages a lot.... (:

But I believe, you mean romanic, which is the root of Spanish an Italian for example. It's not that hard to understand this for native anglo-germanic root language speaker like English or German as well. Hard is slavic. I belive. But anyhow, it's much easier to learn and communicate with different languages here in Europe then going to something totaly different like Afican, Arabic, Hebrew or Asian languages, I believe. And I think, it's difficult the other way around as well.

By the way, I visited Korea during my asian trip. Was amazing. I had a walk around in Ankor Vat. Giant. Unbelivable. But ones for sure, I didn't hear any difference between Thai and Korean. Just was not able to identify it. Must be similar for people from the Asian continent visiting Europe as well?

[Brunellus]

English has a low initial threshold--it is not very difficult to express oneself in very basic English. It is not a tonal language (like, say, Thai or most Chinese languages). It has liquid, labial, dental, palatal, and aspirated sounds, but nothing that requires a great deal of effort, like nasal or gutteral sounds (to say nothing of tongue-clicking like Xhosa).

That said, English is a tricky language to speak *well.* Prepositions and prepositional expressions are tricky--since appending a preposition to a verb in English can drastically change the meaning of the verb. If you're in any doubt about that, consider the difference between being pissed OFF versus being pissed ON.

to the OP, I'd suggest watching as many movies and TV as possible, subtitled. Also, listening to pop music, and trying to practice speaking with fluent/native speakers as much as possible. Many schools teach language as a very peculiar game, which teaches students to solve intricate grammatical puzzles but makes them unable to speak the language to normal people.

I'm trying to pick up French by watching re-runs of Inspecteur Maigret, so it's possible, I guess.

[Thomas Schneller]

I'm trying to pick up French by watching re-runs of Inspecteur Maigret

You might end up speaking a somehow "ancient" French...... (:

But good way. I think also, listening is a major thing....

[Buffalo Soldier]

In Malaysia we're quite fortunate in being able to view a lot of English films, dramas, documentary and cartoons. When I was a kid, my dad kinda "thought" me how to see all those programs without consciously reading the subtitles. It's hard at first, but after a while I get the hand of it. That's one of way I learned English.

[wondering_jew]

when i was 17 i spent 6 weeks of my summer in spain, my host sister who had been studying english in school (was a required course) for probably about 10 years knew far less english than I knew spanish after only 3 years (no one else in my host family knew any english at all)... It seemed to me that the emphasis of their english class was more on being able to read and write, lots of vocab translation exercises etc, whereas the emphasis of my spanish classes were more on conversational spanish and being able to function among spanish speakers you do of course have to learn grammar and how to write but I think the increased focus on conversation made all the difference.
Thats my $0.02 anyway

[Stormy Eyes]

English is a screwed up language, just like Visual Basic :smile:

That's an unfair comparison. It's possible to express oneself in English, to say nothing of creating literature that will endure for centuries (like Milton's Paradise Lost and the poems of William Blake), but good luck doing anything in Visual Basic that will survive more than ten years.

English is a mongrel language, a mix of the tongues of several conquering peoples. Visual Basic is nothing but a cluster****.

[minio]

I've learned english with these four steps:
1. watching english movies with subtitles
2. watching english movies with english subtitles
3. reading internet forums and scientific articles in english
4. getting drunk with some canadians/americans :)

Anyway may english isn't too good but i am sometimes able to express myself :)

to comparison of laguages ) Does anyone knows some word in english where is "ch" pronounced the same way like in slavic languages ("x" for those using cyrillic like "хлеб" ) or in german "ich" ?

[oddabe19]

In a due respects... i meant english was the hardest to learn because:

1. Like German and russian, it's so harsh so you have to get the accents right.
2. all the different dialects... in britian a car cover is a bonnet, in the US it's a hood....
3. all the different meanings for the same word... in some languages, the same word can mean 3 different things... in english there ARE 3 different words.
4. all the 'small' words are hard to get in the right area... in spanish 'Me llammo es Abel' is the same as 'Me llammo Abel'... in english it's 'My name is abel' if you take out the is (like you do in spanish) it just sounds so wrong....
5. Dialects of english according to the area of the country... in the United States... Soda is called pop or soda or fizzly depending where you are....


it really is tough.... the basics are easy, but the small innerworks are hard as hell even for native speakers.... why do you think we take english from Kindergaden through College... it sucks. :-P

[Brunellus]

4. all the 'small' words are hard to get in the right area... in spanish 'Me llammo es Abel' is the same as 'Me llammo Abel'... in english it's 'My name is abel' if you take out the is (like you do in spanish) it just sounds so wrong....

You might have a decent grasp of English, but your Spanish could use a bit of help. "Me llamo es Abel" is nonsense--you've just said "I'm called is Abel," which is probably not what you meant at all.

You're right, of course. Syntax is tricky in English--even native speakers struggle with it. President Bush the Elder had notoriously shaky syntax, and his son seems to have affected the same manner of speech.


why do you think we take english from Kindergaden through College... it sucks. :-P

We're expected to learn to express increasingly complex ideas through language; thus, we have to keep learning new ways of speaking to express new ways of seeing and thinking. My first language is Tagalog, but since we left the Philippines when I was very small, I never really learned to express myself in that language to the same degree that I can in English or Spanish--my linguistic development was, as it were, arrested, and when I try to speak it now, I find myself struggling to climb out of the very small world that a four-year-old child might inhabit, linguistically.

[Thomas Schneller]

2. watching english movies with english subtitles

Uh? What is that good for? Deaf people? German TV uses sign language in this case.

My first language is Tagalog

Never heared about that one. Is it nativ Philippines? By the way, did you know, that there is an Spanish whistle language? I was totally fascinated seeing a report about that. Showed how creative humans are to find ways to communicate. But in case of a internet forum, English seems more helpful then whistleing..... (:

Anyhow, like it or not, English helps a lot to inter-communicate between different kind of tongues. With a basic stock of words you are able to express a lot. I think, that's why it is used so widely around the world by people not being able to understand each other directly using their native language.

Just see this thread. Sooo many people from different countries speaking (writing) to each other. I like it a lot...... (:

King regards and a nice Sunday

Thomas

[sas]

2. watching english movies with english subtitles

Uh? What is that good for? Deaf people? German TV uses sign language in this case.

My first language is Tagalog

Never heared about that one. Is it nativ Philippines? By the way, did you know, that there is an Spanish whistle language? I was totally fascinated seeing a report about that. Showed how creative humans are to find ways to communicate. But in case of a internet forum, English seems more helpful then whistleing..... (:

Anyhow, like it or not, English helps a lot to inter-communicate between different kind of tongues. With a basic stock of words you are able to express a lot. I think, that's why it is used so widely around the world by people not being able to understand each other directly using their native language.

Just see this thread. Sooo many people from different countries speaking (writing) to each other. I like it a lot...... (:

King regards and a nice Sunday

Thomas
It's used for deaf people, but also deaf people do get signed programmes - though not many...It's useful for the hard of hearing, who haven't learnt sign language too.

[Brunellus]

2. watching english movies with english subtitles

Uh? What is that good for? Deaf people? German TV uses sign language in this case.



I prefer subtitles to dubbed movies, if the movie is in a language that I don't speak fluently. With overdubbing, we are deprived of the original actors' performances and given an often inferior performance by voiceover actors who have not prepared for their roles appropriately. It also bugs me to see that the sound of an actor's voice is out of sync with the movements of his lips.



My first language is Tagalog

Never heared about that one. Is it nativ Philippines?


Yes. It's one of many (nine? I could never count properly) languages in that country. It is the language of the capital, and of government, and the mass media, and has the most number of speakers (English is also an official language. Spanish also was, at one time (it may still be, I'm not sure)--even though Spanish-speakers have always been historically in the minority, and, anyway, these days, there aren't very many left there). I think it's quite a beautiful language, with an interesting grammar, and pretty words. Certain concepts have always made more sense to me in Tagalog than in any other way: frogs, for instance, say kokak, kokak, lightning and thunder are kidlat at kulog, and so on. Tagalog, like English, easily absorbs and assimilates foreign words, and because of its structure, it is very easy and often amusing to play with words. I try to keep my Tagalog up as much as I can by listening to music. The more new songs that I learn that my father and mother don't know, the more it becomes my language and not just their language.


By the way, did you know, that there is an Spanish whistle language? I was totally fascinated seeing a report about that. Showed how creative humans are to find ways to communicate. But in case of a internet forum, English seems more helpful then whistleing..... (:

Linguists have recently documented the emergence of a new language among Nicaraguan deaf children--a fully-formed language, with its own grammar, syntax, etc. Turns out that when the government there decided to concentrate deaf children into special schools, the children needed some way of communicating with each other. Since they knew no standard sign-language, they began finding ways to express themselves to each other and be understood, and pretty soon a language had been created. Neat stuff.



Anyhow, like it or not, English helps a lot to inter-communicate between different kind of tongues. With a basic stock of words you are able to express a lot. I think, that's why it is used so widely around the world by people not being able to understand each other directly using their native language.

Just see this thread. Sooo many people from different countries speaking (writing) to each other. I like it a lot...... (:

In past centuries, in Europe, at least, that function as filled by Latin. Latin is a terrific language: it has a very precise grammar, and it is possible to specify exactly what you mean with as few (or as many!) ambiguities as you like. It also had the advantage of being a conveniently dead language and, since no one nation could really claim ownership of it any more, was mutually-acceptable to all parties (no one would have to demean himself by speaking "someone else's language"). A Swiss lawyer I met once told me that for many years, the Law in Switzerland was administered in Latin, precisely because it belonged to none of the distinct linguistic communities in the confederation. It has also intrigued me that the present extent of the European Union largely coincides with that of (Latin-speaking, at least at the elite level) Western Christendom at around the 12th Century AD....

[Buffalo Soldier]

2. watching english movies with english subtitles

Uh? What is that good for? Deaf people? German TV uses sign language in this case.It helps in learning the spelling.

[Se7EnNi9E]

I want to speak English with native-speaker well.

But I want to speak my major objects in English.

I think it is more important.

If I can't explain my thought for them in English,it isn't neccessary to study.

I hope I try to do it.