What's wrong with English ?

[jthirt]

This should really be called "What's wrong with the English language for communication with others ?".

Before I dive into the matter, I'd like to point out that I have not yet researched this topic thoroughly as I feel it deserves it, but one needs a starting point and that's mine in this case.

- A few years back, probably less than two centuries ago, the scientific community communicated using the Latin language.

- Today the scientific community generally communicates locally in their own native language and then in English across borders and to publish their work/discoveries.

You might think : "What's that to do with ubuntu, linux and this forum ?".

Well, we are an international community therefore we communicate and that in English for the 'main' ubuntu forum, then in a 'local' or 'selected' language in the other forums.

Fine, where's the issue then ?

The issue probably isn't so obvious if you are a native English speaker and that's part of the problem.

When engaged in communicating with an international community, furthermore 'scientific' or at least 'technical' matters, using the same language as for 'chatting with your mates' or ordering a pizza is not enough. What I mean here is that when scientists communicated in Latin, they had to make a conscious effort to use the right words so their counterparts would understand them.

To be fair, I'm not sure that's what happens when native English speakers speak or write in their own language.

In written English the issue is somewhat less than spoken English as at least the accent doesn't come into the picture to further confuse or disturb both foreign and native English speakers.

I've seen Americans from New York and Virginia having trouble understanding each other and both were educated ! Not to mention English people struggling with people from Scotland or Ireland. So what would it be if I mentioned New Zealand, Australia or South Africa ? I speak from experience as I many of these guys when I was sailing many years ago.

The fact that on one hand you have people who use their native language, on the other people who must use a foreign language they often do not master very well generates something like :

[Difference of quantity or degree]: inequality, disparity, odds, difference, unevenness, tipping of the scale, partiality, bias, prejudice, weight, shortcoming, superiority, inferiority disparate, partial, unbalanced, imbalanced, overbalanced, top-heavy, lopsided, biased, skewed, prejudiced, slanted.
<--- StarDict - English Thesaurus --->

I am French and have been lucky to be involved in international activities from an early age and therefore realized the benefits of mastering the English language as it enables me to communicate with many others and learn from them.

So I would like to promote the usage of English for all nationals as it represents our best opportunity to exchange on many subjects, but I'd like to encourage English native speakers to try and learn another language, if only to realize that it requires an effort tobe understood by others.

The first step to 'ubuntu' should be a good level of communication as I feel there can't be humanity without understanding each other at least to a degree.

[firenewt]

I've always had a high interest in learning foreign languages, but when you don't have the opportunity, it's unlikely. If you never use a language often with native speakers or the equivalent, you aren't going to really learn a thing about it anytime soon. And yet with the internet, television and other global communication available today, I think people pick up expressions from many places around the world.

But either way, I am usually mindful of who I'm talking to and I try to be as clear as possible.

[aysiu]

Slightly related, here's a little poll I made a while ago:
What's your main reason for using an English-speaking forum? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=268703)

[slimdog360]

I know a little german and japanese. Well at least I used to know a little.

[hesee]

So are you suggesting that we should speak Esperanto here? ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto

[chaosgeisterchen]

An interesting topic to talk about the significance of English as a main language of communication nowadays. It has doubtlessly become the number one technical language in the world, regardless of which native lanuage one may speak and write, these persons will be forced to use English in order to talk about technical issues on Linux or other operating systems.

I regard English as a beautiful language which is in possession of gigantic wordpower because of a huge amount of vocabulary. The way one may express hisself is stunningly easy to learn and quite hard to be mastered. Aysiu is seemingly not affected by any problems with language as an ex-teacher. I am not on his level but I can still advance. As long as someone loves the language and shows the will to improve, he/she will surely reach his/her target.

[mips]

I'll be quite happy if we revived latin. Only problem is who still reads/writes latin these days, never mind being able to speak it (Vatican?). Our legal system is based on roman-dutch law & english common law. It used to be a requirement to have Latin as a subject when studying law, this is no longer the case, how this is possible I don't know, it also took you 5yrs instead of the current4. Btw, I quit law after 1yr. The French, Italians, Spaniards, Portugese & Romanians should find it easy to learn latin ;) For the rest of us it requires a bit of a mind-shift and might even be easier to learn than english if you weren't exposed to english so much.

I'm all for english being the international language of communication. I'm fluent in English/Afrikaans, can speak Zulu to a degree, can read Dutch pretty well and understand it if you don't speak to fast.

I've never really had a problem understanding the English, Irish, Scottish, Aussies, Kiwis, Canucks & Yanks unless the accent is laid on really heavy. The hardest is probably the Scotts when it gets a bit thick. I can see accents being a problem if you are not a native english speaker.

Apparently English is a hard language to learn for someone coming from a non-germanic language. So maybe we should find ways of making it easier to learn & understand for people.

[nUllSkillZ]

Not all people of one country speak or understand english.
So the national forums can help these people.
I think that's the a good reason.

[Bigbluecat]

Well. To answer the subject title nothing is wrong with English. It just is.

Native English speakers are both lucky and unlucky in my view.

Lucky because their native language has become the international sceintific and business lanuguage. Unlucky because there is little motivation for them to learn and understand other languages to improve communications.

There is a complicating factor here. English is in some ways a unifying language for international business.

For perspective I find it relatively easy to learn a few words of most European languages, understand some of what is being said and read a few lines.

It is more difficult with Japanese. With some effort words can be picked out but reading is another matter.

Chinese is, to me, a little easier. That is Mandarin to be more precise and not Shanghainese. Although reading is again tough.

Korean is almost impossible for me to understand when spoken (no offence). I find it hard to pick out syllables and words.

Learning a language takes time and practice. For this to be effective it requires focus and opportunity. A fragmented international language will not work so well.

[jthirt]

Great stuff ! :D

I was hoping it would trigger some sort of interest and I'm delighted to see it does.

Of course nothing is wrong with English. ;)

As most of you gathered, I wanted to point out what many take for granted, that english is THE language of communication these days, but this should be clearly accepted with some related obligations, if I may say : Use it as well as you can.

For example, I am convinced that the best way to defend or protect the French language that many people see as being in danger of being corrupted by foreign (mostly english) influence, is precisely to learn english and possibly other language.

If you know english, you don't mix it with your own language that easily, do you ? It's one or the other.

I don't think Esperanto is the answer, although it probably has it's virtues, but I can't comment as I didn't invest enough time evaluating the topic. :-k

[chaosgeisterchen]

I do try not to mix it up with my native language (German, beautiful expressions, complex but I do like English a bit more. In fact I am clearly more literate in German as I use it for 18 years now as main language and am keen on improving further and further).

@Esperanto:

I haven't yet touched it. Would it be really capable of becoming a worldwide unificated language?

Well.. language unification as a whole is a bad thing. I do not want to see the world speaking all the same way. Would be very boring. Cultural mixture is an important heritage which has to be protected.

[moma]

Yes
Let's speak Finnish or Esperanto.

There is a project to translate Debian (Main page) to Esperanto. Why not Ubuntu?
http://www.debian.org/international/Esperanto
+
See: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-eo:mrgreen:

[chaosgeisterchen]

How many persons in the whole wide world are capable of speaking Esperanto fluently?

[jthirt]

Cultural mixture is an important heritage which has to be protected.

I can't agree more. Being European, I feel cultural diversity is one of Europes strength.

The same applies to ubuntu and that's one of the aspects that I find most exciting about it. It is an incredible challenge, but one that is so powerful.

Don't get me wrong! I love English as it enables me to reach others and be reached too.

[steven8]

The thing is, that the U.S. is so dang big, we can travel hundreds to a couple thousand miles and not have the need to speak another language, just dialects. Unless one has the dollars and desire to go world travelling, that is why there is no incentive to learn another language, on the 'off chance' you may meet someone someday that you'll have to communicate with.

Add to that, projects such as Ubuntu provide us with a wonderful forum such as this, so this is where we come.

[chaosgeisterchen]

I can't agree more. Being European, I feel cultural diversity is one of Europes strength.

The same applies to ubuntu and that's one of the aspects that I find most exciting about it. It is an incredible challenge, but one that is so powerful.

Don't get me wrong! I love English as it enables me to reach others and be reached too.

Huh? You feel diversity as strength? You simply second my sentence, I hope I did not express it in a wrong way.

The huge number of cultures that exist are an important heritage to correct my statement.

[fuscia]

When engaged in communicating with an international community, furthermore 'scientific' or at least 'technical' matters, using the same language as for 'chatting with your mates' or ordering a pizza is not enough. What I mean here is that when scientists communicated in Latin, they had to make a conscious effort to use the right words so their counterparts would understand them.

it is far easier for someone to become more exacting in their native language than it is for them to become more exacting in a second language. one has more choice of expression, more immediately at hand, in one's native tongue than in a second language and it is that choice that allows succinct expression.


In written English the issue is somewhat less than spoken English as at least the accent doesn't come into the picture to further confuse or disturb both foreign and native English speakers.

this is true of all languages, including latin. in fact, in latin, the problem of accent would be greater as there is no 'official' model accent. maybe we could all just hold up signs in latin, when conversing. just imagine the peace and quiet.

[argie]

If you know english, you don't mix it with your own language that easily, do you ? It's one or the other.

Oh yeah? Come over to India once.

[frup]

English is my second language although its all I am able to speak fluently :S. I was born in Switzerland but have lived in New Zealand since I was 5. I am aware of the troubles with English to some some degree, talking to people from other countries with New Zealand slang, often draws a blank face. Recently a childhood friend of mine stayed in New Zealand for a while to improve his English, On his tours through New Zealand he met some English (As in British) tourists and picked up their slang. It was very funny to me. I also used to work with a lot of Indians and Fijians, I got very good at understanding different accents in English through them, I believe, In New Zealand at least, they are one sub culture which tends to retain its own grammatical syntax. This proves to be very interesting. A common complaint I have heard from Swiss friends is that while they, and I assume most Europeans, tend to learn English and other languages at school, most English speakers never do, or take French for one year. This to the people who brought up this point seemed very arrogant. Personally I am trying to improve my German.

[jthirt]

Oh yeah? Come over to India once.

Ok, right, I see what you mean. We have the same in northen africa where many people mix French words with dialectal Arab.

That's a different thing. I hope !

[jthirt]

Huh? You feel diversity as strength?

If you don't then it's good ! ;)

I seriously believe that European products are often better (than American products for example) because the market is culturally diversified and therefore more demanding. Look at our washing machines and compare them to those offered in the USA. Not to mention cars ...

Uniformity is death !

That's why we're all here, aren't we ?

[mips]

English is my second language although its all I am able to speak fluently :S. I was born in Switzerland but have lived in New Zealand since I was 5. I am aware of the troubles with English to some some degree, talking to people from other countries with New Zealand slang, often draws a blank face. Recently a childhood friend of mine stayed in New Zealand for a while to improve his English, On his tours through New Zealand he met some English (As in British) tourists and picked up their slang. It was very funny to me. I also used to work with a lot of Indians and Fijians, I got very good at understanding different accents in English through them, I believe, In New Zealand at least, they are one sub culture which tends to retain its own grammatical syntax. This proves to be very interesting. A common complaint I have heard from Swiss friends is that while they, and I assume most Europeans, tend to learn English and other languages at school, most English speakers never do, or take French for one year. This to the people who brought up this point seemed very arrogant. Personally I am trying to improve my German.

No offence but just work on your sentence/paragraph structure as it is currently hell to read and makes my eyes burn ;)

[TheWizzard]

This should really be called "What's wrong with the English language for communication with others ?".

english is fine for 'global communication' in my opinion. but i do notice i encounter often more difficulties to understand native speakers. especially people from the usa. in my country english lessons at school are focussed on brittish english rather than american english.

as for english in science, i'd like to mention that scientific english is extremely straightforeward and easy to understand. so if we want to use english for international communication analogous to the scientific community, the english in the forums should be written with the specific focus to make yourself clear, also for non-native speakers.

[daynah]

The reason northerners and southerners in America have a hard time understanding each other is because we speak at a different pace, with different emphasis, and with different expressions.

If this process is left to its own devices, without free and easy exchange of information (internet, telephone) you get... China with Mandarin and Cantonese. That is exactly what would have happened to southern American English vs. northern American English.

And England, an ocean apart? Again, if we were in a world where we weren't forced to understand each other with telephones and internet and allowed our dialects to seperate, they would be the equivalent of the Japanese language or Korean.

It's nothing wrong with the language, it's just geography and history. Many other languages are close knit. French in france is much more similar than the variances amoung Americans, as you pointed out. But what about the other countries that speak French? They speak it very differently.

So... I don't think there's anything wrong with English... it's just how languages develop.



The most interesting thing I've noticed about immigrants learning english naturally in America is that they... platue. They get to a level that people can understand them... but often putting the wrong prepositions or congugating the verbs incorrectly (not as horrible of a sin in English as, say, spanish). But, since native speakers can still understand them, we just go with it. It's polite, it gets the conversation moving, but it also gives the non-native speaker a pavolian responce to his incorrect speaking so he just... doesn't learn anymore.

Borat comes to mind. HA!

[mostwanted]

Self-confessed Esperanto lover here :)

I'm learning Esperanto at the moment. Why? Because it's a beautiful language and the people who speak it (estimated 1-2 million) and the culture around it is very international and sans frontières. Its official name is after all La Lingvo Internacia ("The International Language").

The thing about Esperanto is that it has no irregularities, it has a simple model for creating new words, it "absorbs" the grammar of wildly different languages so that newcomers can use the grammatical structure of their native language for creating sentences and still understand and be understood by other Esperanto speakers and the Esperanto vocabulary is familiar to Europeans as it is derived from common roots in the European languages.

And the best reason: it takes just a fraction of the time to learn it that it would take to learn a traditional national language. I'm not kidding! I've studied French for 5 years and after studying Esperanto for a few weeks (using this fantastic resource (http://en.lernu.net/index.php), available in like 20 different languages) I felt like I had almost caught up with my knowledge of French. Obviously, my vocabulary is still comparably small, but it is rapidly expanding.

[Reshin]

What the heck is Esperanto?

[mostwanted]

What the heck is Esperanto?

This has already been posted, but for the sake of you not having to re-read the topic or search for it, here it is again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto


Esperanto is the most widely spoken constructed international language. The name derives from Doktoro Esperanto, the pseudonym under which L. L. Zamenhof first published the Unua Libro in 1887. The word itself means 'one who hopes'. Zamenhof's goal was to create an easy and flexible language as a universal second language to foster peace and international understanding.

[sanderella]

I like the variety of accents and usage of English. I love to hear people from central Africa, they have a beautiful accent, and I love the Kentucky accent from the USA. We all have different syntax, too.

Like Alistair Cooke said, "We all sing English to different tunes." Vive la difference!:)

I was not taught a foreign language at school: many of us English children were not, and I think we all really regret that. As an adult I learned to read Hebrew, but I can't speak it. I wish I could speak French and German. Maybe I should go to night school.

[EdThaSlayer]

Me, not a native english speaker, prefers english because its a "international" language. Knowing dutch, i cant go to a place such as Bangkok,Thailand and speak dutch to them. They wont understand me, but they will understand me if i speak in english. Also its english simplicity(its easy to learn compared to other languages) and large vocabulary that is one reason its used in the forums and in international business.

[bailout]

Interesting topic. Being English I am a native English speaker and unfortunately, like many English people, I don't know any other languages.

I wish there was an international language that wasn't anyone's native language, such as esperanto or a dead language such as Latin. It makes obvious sense to have one international language that everyone can learn but using a living language, whether English or any other, leads to resentment.

I do feel guilty about not knowing another language when I see so many non-native people on the internet using English so well. However, the British education system has always been bad at teaching foreign languages. I didn't start learning a foreign language until I was over 11 and most research now shows that it is much more effective to start younger. It also wasn't seen as very important at school compared to subjects like maths, English, sciences.

I have thought about learning a language but which one :D For a non-English speaker English is the obvious choice but for an English speaker there needs to be a particular reason to choose a second language. Also other languages are so complicated :D There is all that masculine, feminine, neuter nonsense and evrything changes depending on whether you are using formal or familiar language (tu/vous etc). The English invented a simple language because we are too stupid to cope with complex grammer unlike the French and Germans which is why we struggle with learning other languages ;) Although our spelling is a bit illogical :D

[doobit]

The thing is, that the U.S. is so dang big, we can travel hundreds to a couple thousand miles and not have the need to speak another language, just dialects. Unless one has the dollars and desire to go world travelling, that is why there is no incentive to learn another language, on the 'off chance' you may meet someone someday that you'll have to communicate with.

Add to that, projects such as Ubuntu provide us with a wonderful forum such as this, so this is where we come.

I live near Miami. If you don't speak Spanish, then you can have trouble getting around.

[nbound]

From my dabbling in a few European languages... I find grammatical gender extremely hard to remember, I also cant do trilled r's, which basically killed off an impulse i had at one point to learn spanish.

I can read most Western European languages (to the point where i have an idea of whats goin on, or at least the subject), but speak/write no more than the tiniest bit of a few.

Offtopic: I can speak fluent Pig Latin, does that count? :p;)

[qalimas]

I am a native English speaker, I know no other languages. I know a few Spanish words, some of the verb-charts, but that's about all. I don't have time to learn another language right now, and I've always had problems trying before (Spanish, French, and Japanese).

However, I hear German is a lot like English, and I can navigate my way around German websites, so when I get some time I do hope to learn it :D

[mips]

... I also cant do trilled r's, which basically killed off an impulse i had at one point to learn spanish.


In that case never try afrikaans as the r's can be rolled very dramatically :)

[nbound]

In that case never try afrikaans as the r's can be rolled very dramatically :)
hehe... i honestly dont know how people can do them... it sounds like their tongue is moving like a set of ripples... or a mexican wave... :p

Though theres probably sounds in Australian English that others couldnt approximate... just depends on what uve been brought up with really... :)

[mostwanted]

The English invented a simple language because we are too stupid to cope with complex grammer unlike the French and Germans which is why we struggle with learning other languages ;) Although our spelling is a bit illogical :D

The main fault of English is the fact that has so many irregularities. Maybe you don't think about it when you speak it natively, but it does. French can be more complex, but at least most of it is regular and can be said to follow some basic rules.

If you want to learn a simple but not artificial language, learn one of the Scandinavian languages. They only have one form in each verb tense like Esperanto.

Example:

"To be" in English is:

I am
You are
He/she/it is
We are
You are
They are

While in French (which you deem to be more complex and rightly so) it's:

Je suis
Tu es
Il est
Nous sommes
Vous etez
Ils sont

But! In Danish it's:

Jeg er
Du er
Han/hun/den er
Vi er
I er
De er

Or in lovely Esperanto it's:

Mi estas
Vi estas
Li/ŝi/ĝi estas
Ni estas
Vi estas
Ili estas

Notice how simple verb conjugation is in the two last examples?

[Lord Illidan]

I happen to know English, Maltese, Italian and German. Maltese is my native language, and if I knew only Maltese I wouldn't be able to communicate on this forum, except with myself and a few others..

English is the language of the web, imho..

[marianom]

Hey, that Esperanto looks a lot like castilian (or spanish as some people call it).

[mips]

hehe... i honestly dont know how people can do them... it sounds like their tongue is moving like a set of ripples... or a mexican wave... :p

Though theres probably sounds in Australian English that others couldnt approximate... just depends on what uve been brought up with really... :)

I, on the other hand wonder what's so hard about it as it seems like an easy thing to do but you can see people battle with it.

BUT, I recall when i was very small i could NOT pronounce my own name because it starts with a rolling 'R'. How's that for wicked :)

If you want to try something really hard try Khoisan, which is basically a language of 'clicks'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khoisan_languages

[Reshin]

The main fault of English is the fact that has so many irregularities. Maybe you don't think about it when you speak it natively, but it does. French can be more complex, but at least most of it is regular and can be said to follow some basic rules.

If you want to learn a simple but not artificial language, learn one of the Scandinavian languages. They only have one form in each verb tense like Esperanto.

Example:

"To be" in English is:

I am
You are
He/she/it is
We are
You are
They are

While in French (which you deem to be more complex and rightly so) it's:

Je suis
Tu es
Il est
Nous sommes
Vous etez
Ils sont

But! In Danish it's:

Jeg er
Du er
Han/hun/den er
Vi er
I er
De er

Or in lovely Esperanto it's:

Mi estas
Vi estas
Li/ŝi/ĝi estas
Ni estas
Vi estas
Ili estas

Notice how simple verb conjugation is in the two last examples?

Let's try some "simple" scandinavian language, Finnish:

Minä olen
Sinä olet
Hän on
Me olemme
Te olette
He ovat

Gotta love one thing about Finnish: no matter how you arrange the words, it's pretty much correct :p

[zvezdogled]

OK, why not.

jaz sem
ti si
on/ona/ono je

midva sva
vidva sta
onadva sta

mi smo
vi ste
oni so

In slovene it is different if you talk about two people (the middle part) like when you are talking in plural.

[mostwanted]

Let's try some "simple" scandinavian language, Finnish:

Minä olen
Sinä olet
Hän on
Me olemme
Te olette
He ovat

Gotta love one thing about Finnish: no matter how you arrange the words, it's pretty much correct :p

Finnish isn't a Scandinavian language, though.

[Reshin]

Finnish isn't a Scandinavian language, though.

One of us fails at geometry...













](*,) D'oh!

[mostwanted]

One of us fails at geometry...


Geometry???

Anyway, I'm right and seeing as I'm Scandinavian I ought to know. The Scandinavian languages are Danish, Swedish and Norwegian. Finnish is entirely unrelated (which you ought to know as well, seeing as you live in Finland).

Finnish, Icelandic, Faroese and the three Scandinavian languages are altogether called Nordic languages (the languages of the Nordic region), not Scandinavian languages. To further clarify, the 3 Scandinavian countries are Denmark, Sweden and Norway. To include Finland is wrong usage of the term.

[steven8]

I live near Miami. If you don't speak Spanish, then you can have trouble getting around.

Isn't Florida just a colony of Cuba? :-)

[TheWizzard]

Geometry???

Anyway, I'm right and seeing as I'm Scandinavian I ought to know. The Scandinavian languages are Danish, Swedish and Norwegian. Finnish is entirely unrelated (which you ought to know as well, seeing as you live in Finland).

Finnish, Icelandic, Faroese and the three Scandinavian languages are altogether called Nordic languages (the languages of the Nordic region), not Scandinavian languages. To further clarify, the 3 Scandinavian countries are Denmark, Sweden and Norway. To include Finland is wrong usage of the term.

not really, finland is often included in scandinavia (see below). the finnish language is totally different, though. it is related to hungarian, whereas swedish, etc are related to german.



In Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden: The term "Scandinavia" usually refers to Denmark, Norway and Sweden, but Finland and even Iceland are sometimes included. The five countries and their associated territories are collectively referred to as the Nordic Countries. Some North Europeans could even take offence to being or not being classified as Scandinavians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia

[Reshin]

Yes, I made a mistake there, s-o-r-r-y!

Can we please just move on?

[mostwanted]

not really, finland is often included in scandinavia (see below). the finnish language is totally different, though. it is related to hungarian, whereas swedish, etc are related to german.

I don't need Wikipedia lectures from you. Finland is often WRONGLY included as part of Scandinavia, similar to how England is sometimes wrongly used as a designation for the UK in some countries.

The Scandinavian countries are Scandinavian because they share their common history as Vikings, their mutually intelligible languages, their similar political systems, their sibling rivalry, their 3 crowns and the fact that they recognise each other as "the Scandinavian countries". If we can't use the term Scandinavia for this we will just have to make up another term because it is necessary to have a term for those 3 countries/languages.

[denad]

I know a lot of Swedish people that also mix Scandinavia with the Nordic countries, I used to do it before too. The Nordic countries includes Finland, Scandinavia doesn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries


Danish:

Jeg er
Du er
Han/hun/den er
Vi er
I er
De er

Swedish:

Jag är
Du är
Han/hon/den är
Vi är
Ni är
De är

(And ä has a quite similar sound as e)

Written Danish is quite easy to understand, but as soon as you start talking, I'm lost ](*,) Where did the consonants go?!? :D

[MedivhX]

Ahhhh... When all languages would be like Serbian and Finnish everything would be sooooo easy... Write as you speak, and read as it is written... Every tone (voice, sound) is one letter...

[moma]

May I ask all Swedish, Danish and Norwegian people (Scandinavians) to visit http://republik.nu/

All those above mensioned countries are sc. "monarchies" meaning that they have kings and pricesses and all that crap!

Monarchy is highly UNDEMOCRATIC and disgusting form of state governance. Get rid of those puppet-people (kings, pricesses and their brainless lakeys etc.) and establish a DEMOCRATIC form of state (Republic).

LET PEOPLE ELECT THE HEAD OF STATE BY THEMSELVES. DEMAND DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS.
Begin with this page: http://republik.nu (=Republic now!)
You know what a "guillotine" is?

Take model of Finland, Iceland, Germany, Poland, Frence Revolution, ... and even USA.

[nbound]

May I ask all Swedish, Danish and Norwegian people (Scandinavians) to visit http://republik.nu/

All those above mensioned countries are sc. "monarchies" meaning that they have kings and pricesses and all that crap!

Monarchy is highly UNDEMOCRATIC and disgusting form of state governance. Get rid of those puppet-people (kings, pricesses and their brainless lakeys etc.) and establish a DEMOCRATIC form of state (Republic).

LET PEOPLE ELECT THE HEAD OF STATE BY THEMSELVES. DEMAND DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS.
Begin with this page: http://republik.nu (=Republic now!)
You know what a "guillotine" is?

Take model of Finland, Iceland, Germany, Poland, Frence Revolution, ... and even USA.
Ummm dude, the monarchy holds no real power in those countries, all power is in the parliament. The have democratic elections and all that stuff, they have their own presidents/prime ministers.

Many other countries are like this.. The United Kingdom (Britain), Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Belgium, Greenland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, The Netherlands (Holland), Papua New Guinea, Japan, Spain.

I'll say it again... The head of state (the monarch) holds no power in any of these countries. They are purely ceremonial.

[ice60]

i haven't read the whole of this thread, but i always thought English is the best language to communicate with - for getting your point across, and German based languages were best for scientific things.

you only have to think of some great English communicators and German logical thinkers to prove it!!

like i said, i haven't read the whole of this thread, so don't flame me too badly if i've misunderstood things :-k

[ice60]

All those above mensioned countries are sc. "monarchies" meaning that they have kings and pricesses and all that crap!

Monarchy is highly UNDEMOCRATIC and disgusting form of state governance. Get rid of those puppet-people (kings, pricesses and their brainless lakeys etc.) and establish a DEMOCRATIC form of state (Republic).

LET PEOPLE ELECT THE HEAD OF STATE BY THEMSELVES. DEMAND DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS.
Begin with this page: http://republik.nu (=Republic now!)
You know what a "guillotine" is?


i always thought England was the birth place of modern parliamentary democracy :confused: lots of democracies have copied it anyway.

EDIT actually forget it, you are an idiot and you don't have a clue

[denad]

moma is not an idiot, hes only writing like one. I can see your point, but I disagree. There has been some debates about this in Sweden, about abolishing monarchy. However today most people want to keep the monarchy. (according to a few polls in a newspapers, somewhere, sometime) If the people want to keep the dictator, is it truly a dictatorship then? :-k

And no, he doesn't have any power. Hes our little mascot ;)

[ice60]

i was just thinking of all the poor people who have died fighting to keep constitutional monarchies, only for someone to say such things about the system.

[nbound]

Hell im a supporter of an australian republic :D , but what moma spurted was crap :(

[steven8]

I'd say this has become more Backyard chatting than Cafe fare. . .

[henriquemaia]

This is about english and not so much about politics. Don't like monarchies? make a thread about it.

[steven8]

I've never lived in a monarchy (at least not one that admits that's what it is), so I have no frame of reference to criticize it. It seems to me that this thread has veered from language to political frameworks. Just an observation. Not a personal attack on individuals or their homelands. I wouldn't do that.

[Greevous]

In reference to the original topic, I think that it would be helpful to me, as a native English speaker, if people might translate their posts that deal with computer issues, questions, etc.

This way, I can learn your language and it might bring us together more as an international community. I tried taking French courses in high school but one was online and one was at a private school (not very well-taught). Just a suggestion.

[nbound]

In reference to the original topic, I think that it would be helpful to me, as a native English speaker, if people might translate their posts that deal with computer issues, questions, etc.

This way, I can learn your language and it might bring us together more as an international community. I tried taking French courses in high school but one was online and one was at a private school (not very well-taught). Just a suggestion.
That sounds like a great idea... it would also help if the persons english was not at an advanced level, as other may know their native language.

Whether Ubuntu Forums as a whole would support such as move... im not sure...

[Senak^2]

Personally I think English is good at being the 'international' language since it is popular BUT it is so painfully inconsistant! All those grammar rules you're taught as a kid will always have an exception. I think that Esperanto would be an asset for everyone--a universal language! However I think it is key to keep our traditional languages to preserve the culture and beauty of the language.

Here's a thought. A lot of programming/scripting languages are based on English. For example, in HTML the code to center an object is <center> object </center>. Also notice that it's spelt the American way (as opposed to centre). So my question is should new/existing computer languages be written in a universal language such as Esperanto?


In reference to the original topic, I think that it would be helpful to me, as a native English speaker, if people might translate their posts that deal with computer issues, questions, etc.

This way, I can learn your language and it might bring us together more as an international community. I tried taking French courses in high school but one was online and one was at a private school (not very well-taught). Just a suggestion.
I often do that when I'm writing a post/email/letter primarily in a language that is not my native language. Just in case I accidentally write something confusing someone may be able to determine what I mean by the other language I wrote in.


I live near Miami. If you don't speak Spanish, then you can have trouble getting around.
Yeah I've been to Miami and English is the second language. But in all the parts of the US I have been (about 25 states) Miami was the only place like that. I really wish we had more opportunity to learn other languages especially from a young age.

[nbound]

Here's a thought. A lot of programming/scripting languages are based on English. For example, in HTML the code to center an object is <center> object </center>. Also notice that it's spelt the American way (as opposed to centre). So my question is should new/existing computer languages be written in a universal language such as Esperanto?

Its hard enough remember to use American English :p


Humor Aside... it would be a good idea... or perhaps translating current languages to other languages...

ie. instead of



IF (variable == number)
{
cout << "C++ in english" << endl;
}


cout = console output
endl = end line

...as english would be

...in french we could have:


Si (variable == nombre)
{
rendec << "C++ en français" << lext;
}


rendec = rendement de console
lext = ligne d'extrémité

(both babelfish translations so excuse my French :p )


Maybe they do this already? Im not sure...

[Reshin]

You could say there's nothing wrong with english, just the people who use it :-k

[nbound]

You could say there's nothing wrong with english, just the people who use it :-k
What are you trying to say here? :evil:



Just kidding :p ;) :mrgreen:

[Senak^2]

Its hard enough remember to use American English

Humor Aside... it would be a good idea... or perhaps translating current languages to other languages...

Maybe they do this already? Im not sure...
Well according to Wikipedia it seems very limited: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages

[Circus-Killer]

personally, and this is just my own opinion, but i think this thread is a waste of time. granted i am english speaking. but the way i see it is, english is the current universal language, live with it. not just scientifically, but also politically and economically.

to change the way an entire world runs is impossible. here in south africa, we cant even get our own little country speaking the same language (we have 11 official languages). so if even the smallest countries cant get "universal" language going in their little country, how do you expect to do it around the whole world.

you can't change the world, you gotta just live with it. if you wanna do business internationally, you will need english. if you wanna take part in international events, projects, gatherings or whatever else, you will need english.

i am not saying its right, but you also cant accomadate everyone. no matter what language is decided to be "universal", there will always be a large amount of people left out. The only thing you can do is try to learn the "current universal language".

[nbound]

Well according to Wikipedia it seems very limited: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages
Hmm honestly, i think its more of a problem with different scripts (ie. non-roman characters). Most programming languages have a few dozen words that you need to learn, and as long as your using the same lettering system... its not too hard to remember these. (Hell even english speakers must remember "new" words - (usually abbreviations)). Though, say a Chinese person trying to learn a language would have to learn:


The Script (and how to spell stuff)
The Words (and what they mean)
The Programming Language


In that case a Chinese translation would be very beneficial.

A speaker of a roman-characterised language:

does not have to learn the script
does not have to learn as many words and meanings(there are many cognates between most European languages)
may also already know english (basic or advanced) - (many countries require english to be taught in schools, and besides most words used in programming languages are not too hard (eg. IF, OR, AND, Integer, Boolean, etc.)

Thats a significant advantage... over others... sure its not as easy as for a pure english speaker... but its not too hard.

[Reshin]

What are you trying to say here? :evil:



Just kidding :p ;) :mrgreen:

Sorry, didn't mean it like that :D

[jthirt]

personally, and this is just my own opinion, but i think this thread is a waste of time. granted i am english speaking. but the way i see it is, english is the current universal language, live with it. not just scientifically, but also politically and economically.

to change the way an entire world runs is impossible. here in south africa, we cant even get our own little country speaking the same language (we have 11 official languages). so if even the smallest countries cant get "universal" language going in their little country, how do you expect to do it around the whole world.

you can't change the world, you gotta just live with it. if you wanna do business internationally, you will need english. if you wanna take part in international events, projects, gatherings or whatever else, you will need english.

i am not saying its right, but you also cant accomadate everyone. no matter what language is decided to be "universal", there will always be a large amount of people left out. The only thing you can do is try to learn the "current universal language".

I don't like the tone of your post Circus-Killer!

You may have noticed that I do speak reasonable english and that is for a reason ... I have gathered quite a while ago that I needed english for many good reasons and I must say that I did the right thing ! So it is an accepted fact of life, not just by me but by many others who participate in this thread.

NOW, accepting things as they are doesn't exclude reflecting on them.

Why are you interested in linux when so many people have adopted MS windows ?

What would you say to someone who said : "MS-WINDOWS IS THE CURRENT UNIVERSAL OS. LIVE WITH IT !" ?

It is great that we are able to communicate using english, but it is also important to remenber there are other ways and we MUST take into consideration the fact that not everybody masters english and they shouldn't be excluded for that reason.

Great potential contributors to projects like ubuntu are probably excluded or handicaped by their limited english skills. That's a shame. But perhaps in the future as the local comunities grow, they will get a better opportunity at contributing.

I don't think this thread is a waste of time. I started it because the subject kept me awake the other night and I wanted to share my views/concerns or simply the fruit of my troubled mind. Not to put the world right !

[ice60]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Var'aq

[TheWizzard]

personally, and this is just my own opinion, but i think this thread is a waste of time. granted i am english speaking. but the way i see it is, english is the current universal language, live with it. not just scientifically, but also politically and economically.

to change the way an entire world runs is impossible. here in south africa, we cant even get our own little country speaking the same language (we have 11 official languages). so if even the smallest countries cant get "universal" language going in their little country, how do you expect to do it around the whole world.

you can't change the world, you gotta just live with it. if you wanna do business internationally, you will need english. if you wanna take part in international events, projects, gatherings or whatever else, you will need english.

i am not saying its right, but you also cant accomadate everyone. no matter what language is decided to be "universal", there will always be a large amount of people left out. The only thing you can do is try to learn the "current universal language".

actually i think this tread is quite interesting.

even given the fact that at the moment english is "universal", communication can be improved. and improving communication is in the benefit for all ubuntu users!
my personal observation in ubuntu forums is that non-native speakers put a lot of efford in making themselves clear whilst native speakers seem to take less efford in making themselves clear by using plain, simple english without slang. but this is a very general observation.

[Reshin]

Heck, even aliens know english...

[.t.]

I love languages. I'd use a French forum if I could, but I'd find the idioms confusing. I've never spent a realistic amount of time in France. I spent three years growing up in Brussels, but FORGOT EVERYTHING (having learnt enough French to get through a foreign school and make friends and junk). So, I'm all for learning the language again. Yeah, I'm very keen. However, as I said above, I would get confused by the idioms, and computing terms I hadn't come across. Plus, I wouldn't want to be a burden on the community, constantly asking things.

I guess this is how aliens to the English language who aren't fluent feel when trying to use this forum.

[Reshin]

Anyone else find it easier to speak english when you're faking an accent?

[.t.]

I do try not to mix it up with my native language (German, beautiful expressions, complex but I do like English a bit more. In fact I am clearly more literate in German as I use it for 18 years now as main language and am keen on improving further and further).

@Esperanto:

I haven't yet touched it. Would it be really capable of becoming a worldwide unificated language?

Well.. language unification as a whole is a bad thing. I do not want to see the world speaking all the same way. Would be very boring. Cultural mixture is an important heritage which has to be protected.
You are very right.

[.t.]

Anyone else find it easier to speak english when you're faking an accent?
What do you mean?

[rattaro]

Ok, I have to put my opinion in here. What's wrong with English? EVERYTHING! English sucks. It's so hard to master that rarely do people use it correctly. Take, for example, "its" and "it's." Who really cares?

What's up with I am, he is, they are. IT'S THE SAME VERB! Do we really need to conjugate it? What's up with capital letters? is a sentence any less without any capitals? ok, minus the yelling on forums, they are meaningless. if we didn't have capitals, i would just use bolds.

Ok, I know most languages have the same problem, and I'm just picking on English. For a universal language, I would go with Esperanto as well. This way, everyone is on equal footing with an artificial language, and there aren't many nuances to **** off native speakers.

English is a .doc format. Almost universally used, but not because of its superiority. It's complicated, not always easy to translate without losing something, and documentation is of questionable quality.

[.t.]

It's complicated through its long history. And what a great, subtle, deep, fulfilling language that makes it.

"It's" = "It is"
"Its" = something belonging to it

Really not that hard.

Most languages have more conjugations, declentions, cases, and tenses than English.

[rattaro]

It's complicated through its long history. And what a great, subtle, deep, fulfilling language that makes it.

"It's" = "It is"
"Its" = something belonging to it

Really not that hard.

Most languages have more conjugations, declentions, cases, and tenses than English.

Being complicated is usually bad. The history of a language may be nice, but that doesn't make the language great; it just makes it confusing. Language is meant to allow people to communicate clearly. Subtlety is a human quality, not a language one.

"Really not that hard."

I wish millions of people who misuse it everyday felt the same way. Again, as I said in my original post, "Ok, I know most languages have the same problem, and I'm just picking on English."

[jthirt]

Humm, I like the trend of this thread now ... it confirms what I feel, that english is often being misused by native speakers.

The trouble being that it makes it sometimes difficult for US, non native speakers, to understand. Spelling is not considered as important in english as it is in other languages, like French, but it remains important too.

I am appalled when I read 'here' instead of 'hear' and that kind of error is rather frequent.

[nbound]

Humm, I like the trend of this thread now ... it confirms what I feel, that english is often being misused by native speakers.

The trouble being that it makes it sometimes difficult for US, non native speakers, to understand. Spelling is not considered as important in english as it is in other languages, like French, but it remains important too.

I am appalled when I read 'here' instead of 'hear' and that kind of error is rather frequent.
Unless its for something formal, most people do not put too much thought into their spelling/speech, because everyone is aware of the variations from the "official" use of english... its just part of the evolution of the language really... in 150 years time... perhaps some of the things we find "stupid", "backward" or "annoying"... will be the norm :)

[.t.]

I always try to make sure my English is intelligible. I do that by using correct spelling and grammar. This is why spelling and grammar evolved: so people who said things differently (accents, dialects, and idioms resulting) could communicate with ease.


Being complicated is usually bad. The history of a language may be nice, but that doesn't make the language great; it just makes it confusing. Language is meant to allow people to communicate clearly. Subtlety is a human quality, not a language one.

It does make the language great. It allows for people to express their feelings in so many different ways, with so many subtle differences. The complexity of English has allowed for the works of Shakespeare, whose devious and often sly use of language is often like "doublethink". It allows me to write exactly how I feel, how I want to; and it lets others feel my joy, my sadness. These emotions, including subtlely, are indeed very human, and language is used best to convey emotion. Language is a tool by humans, for humans, and it could not be better any other way.

[.t.]

Humm, I like the trend of this thread now ... it confirms what I feel, that english is often being misused by native speakers.

The trouble being that it makes it sometimes difficult for US, non native speakers, to understand. Spelling is not considered as important in english as it is in other languages, like French, but it remains important too.

I am appalled when I read 'here' instead of 'hear' and that kind of error is rather frequent.I agree. I am meticulous, as I posted above, in my use of language. Note that I am often confused by American idioms and euphemisms. Two that always get me, for instance, are "public school" and "football". When I say "public school", as a Briton, I mean what the Americans mean when they say "private school" (I think). When I say "football", I mean the American "soccer".

[rado_london]

I agree. I am meticulous, as I posted above, in my use of language. Note that I am often confused by American idioms and euphemisms. Two that always get me, for instance, are "public school" and "football". When I say "public school", as a Briton, I mean what the Americans mean when they say "private school" (I think). When I say "football", I mean the American "soccer".

There is one thing wrong with English - It isn't my native language and I have to use it 24/7 as I live in UK. But it is definately better to communicate with all of you here.
But please learn Bulgarian so I won't give a **** about spelling:):p

[nbound]

I agree. I am meticulous, as I posted above, in my use of language. Note that I am often confused by American idioms and euphemisms. Two that always get me, for instance, are "public school" and "football". When I say "public school", as a Briton, I mean what the Americans mean when they say "private school" (I think). When I say "football", I mean the American "soccer".


I hate the endings of american words...

"er" for meter, center, etc. when it should be "re" (metre, centre)
"or" for humor, color, etc. when it should be "our" (humour, colour)

The amount of times ive screwed up a program/webpage because i havent used the american spelling for colour or center, ARG! ](*,)


Another one that i am guilty of using sometimes is:
z as a replacement for s.

American:
Civilization, Improvize, etc.
Commonwealth English:
Civilisation, Improvise, etc.

I have a tendency to switch between the two without thinking (even within the same sentence) :(

[rattaro]

It does make the language great. . .

Ok, on second thought, I guess you're right, and I'll have to agree with you there. But I think there is a difference between language as an art, and language as simply a means of communication. A universal language should never replace native languages, only complement them. Keep your native language with its artistic value and beauty, but if you need to communicate with others who speak a different language, then an artificial universal language like esperanto, in my strong opinion only, is the way to go. It will never happen, but that doesn't mean I can't dream.

And btw, English sucks, and so does everyone who disagrees with me! :twisted:

[mssever]

I agree. I am meticulous, as I posted above, in my use of language. Note that I am often confused by American idioms and euphemisms. Two that always get me, for instance, are "public school" and "football". When I say "public school", as a Briton, I mean what the Americans mean when they say "private school" (I think). When I say "football", I mean the American "soccer".
In the US, a public school is one run by a government entity, as opposed to a private entity. What's the meaning in the UK?

I hate the endings of american words...

"er" for meter, center, etc. when it should be "re" (metre, centre)
"or" for humor, color, etc. when it should be "our" (humour, colour)
But how do you pronounce centre? cen-truh or cen-ter? We spell those words like we say them. (Of course, in some dialects, the /r/ is just decoration, anyway. :mrgreen:) My complaint is that you sometimes see /theatre/ instead of /theater/ here in the US.

Another one that i am guilty of using sometimes is:
z as a replacement for s.

American:
Civilization, Improvize, etc.
Commonwealth English:
Civilisation, Improvise, etc.

I have a tendency to switch between the two without thinking (even within the same sentence) :(

So do I--the other way around (internationalisation instead of internationization, for instance).

[apres]

English is the lingua-franca, thus it is the most practical language to use in an international forum. That's not to say other languages can't be part of it, but there's a reason kids on European and Asian countries learn English in school. There's a reason one can get paid $100,000 a year to "teach" conversational English to Japanese students.

[nbound]

But how do you pronounce centre? cen-truh or cen-ter? We spell those words like we say them. (Of course, in some dialects, the /r/ is just decoration, anyway. :mrgreen:) My complaint is that you sometimes see /theatre/ instead of /theater/ here in the US.

Well to me the /re/ and /er/ are synonymous phonemes...

Over here we use /er/ for measuring devices:

Thermometer, Odometer, etc.

and /re/ elsewhere.

though strangely we spell diameter with an /er/ and ive never seen it spelt otherwise.

[.t.]

In the US, a public school is one run by a government entity, as opposed to a private entity. What's the meaning in the UK?In the UK, you can call a school run by "a private entity" a public school, a private school and an independent school (in chronological order of first usage).
Ok, on second thought, I guess you're right, and I'll have to agree with you there. But I think there is a difference between language as an art, and language as simply a means of communication. A universal language should never replace native languages, only complement them. Keep your native language with its artistic value and beauty, but if you need to communicate with others who speak a different language, then an artificial universal language like esperanto, in my strong opinion only, is the way to go. It will never happen, but that doesn't mean I can't dream.It shouldn't replace native languages, no. I love learning new languages, and when I go abroad, I find it disheartening when I have to speak English, or I am spoken to in English. I'd much rather have a hard time in Hungarian (which is a language not like any I've ever come across), for instance.
We spell those words like we say them.But surely this is a bad thing? The whole point of standardised spelling is that it combats this. What do you do if there's someone who pronounces something differently? Moreover, why should one man change the spellings of ancient words, that have evolved as they have for reasons (yeah, Webster, I'm looking at you...)?
So do I--the other way around (internationalisation instead of internationization, for instance).I always try to use "s", not "z" (unless there's reason to: "zebra" could never be "sebra"). I always, also, spell licence with a c! Very few people in Britain it seems spell it the correct way.
There is one thing wrong with English - It isn't my native language and I have to use it 24/7 as I live in UK. But it is definately better to communicate with all of you here.
But please learn Bulgarian so I won't give a **** about spellingI'm sorry that you've been over-ruled by the majority. I'd take time to learn your language if I lived in Bulgaria, I promise. It might be hard, but I'd enjoy it!

[TheWizzard]

I hate the endings of american words...

"er" for meter, center, etc. when it should be "re" (metre, centre)
"or" for humor, color, etc. when it should be "our" (humour, colour)

The amount of times ive screwed up a program/webpage because i havent used the american spelling for colour or center, ARG! ](*,)


Another one that i am guilty of using sometimes is:
z as a replacement for s.

American:
Civilization, Improvize, etc.
Commonwealth English:
Civilisation, Improvise, etc.

I have a tendency to switch between the two without thinking (even within the same sentence) :(

Indeed.

As soon as Americans start writing English, English can be a real lingua-franca.

[shining]

Oh crap, english wasn't complicated enough, american had to be slighty different so that everything is even more confusing.

What about "license"? I've always seen GPL spelt as General Public License.
But in french, it's "licence". Two close words with a different spelling, it's so annoying.
But now you're telling me it's also "licence" in english, and only "license" in american? ](*,)

[nbound]

Oh crap, english wasn't complicated enough, american had to be slighty different so that everything is even more confusing.

What about "license"? I've always seen GPL spelt as General Public License.
But in french, it's "licence". Two close words with a different spelling, it's so annoying.
But now you're telling me it's also "licence" in english, and only "license" in american? ](*,)
Its actually both in Commonwealth English (which includes British English)


In Commonwealth English, license is never used as a noun; the correct noun form is licence, whereas the correct verb form is license.

A similar case with /s/ and /c/ are practice/practise and advice/advise..


Commonwealth English distinguishes between practice (noun) and practise (verb), analogously with advice/advise, which can form useful aide-memoires. In American English, practice is commonly used for both forms, although the distinction is sometimes observed. Practise as a noun is never used.

[der_joachim]

How on earth can people expect me to spell 'ghoti' as 'fish'?

I used to be a linguistics student a long time ago, and the example above was used to illustrate the difference between spelling and phonetics. If the english language were to be more consistent in its spelling, 'fish' would have been spelled as 'ghoti'. Either that, or 'enough' would have to be spelled 'enouf', 'women' would be 'wimen' and 'notion' would be 'noshon'.

There are not many languages which are consistent in their spelling. The only ones I know, are programming languages. :)


As for my reasons to prefer international forums over local (dutch) forums: a bigger audience knows more, and most dutch forums are not that big. There are exceptions, but generally, in my fields of interest, international forums are more um... complete.

[xhaan]

I hate the endings of american words...

"er" for meter, center, etc. when it should be "re" (metre, centre)
"or" for humor, color, etc. when it should be "our" (humour, colour)

The amount of times ive screwed up a program/webpage because i havent used the american spelling for colour or center, ARG! ](*,)


Another one that i am guilty of using sometimes is:
z as a replacement for s.

American:
Civilization, Improvize, etc.
Commonwealth English:
Civilisation, Improvise, etc.

I have a tendency to switch between the two without thinking (even within the same sentence) :(

I spell things the American way because it makes sense to me (and I'm American)...

Let's see, there's flour, hour, house, mouse, our... colour? Do you pronounce it as col-our? Perhaps "doctor" should be "doctour" and "plethora" should be "plethoura" as well.

And "center" is cen-ter. "centre" would be cen-tre, unless you also want to spell "flower" as "flowre" and "power" as "powre".

No offense to anyone, this has just bugged me for many years and I've had my last straw. Please let us spell whatever way we like.

Oh yeah, and by the way. "color" was spelled that way originally, the U was ADDED to it.

[.t.]

No-one's forcing anyone to do anything! It's just the way it has evolved!

[nbound]

I spell things the American way because it makes sense to me (and I'm American)...

Let's see, there's flour, hour, house, mouse, our... colour? Do you pronounce it as col-our? Perhaps "doctor" should be "doctour" and "plethora" should be "plethoura" as well.

And "center" is cen-ter. "centre" would be cen-tre, unless you also want to spell "flower" as "flowre" and "power" as "powre".

No offense to anyone, this has just bugged me for many years and I've had my last straw. Please let us spell whatever way we like.

Oh yeah, and by the way. "color" was spelled that way originally, the U was ADDED to it.
As i stated above... in the case of of metre/meter... re/er are synonymous phonemes afaic'd :)

[chaosgeisterchen]

If you don't then it's good ! ;)

I seriously believe that European products are often better (than American products for example) because the market is culturally diversified and therefore more demanding. Look at our washing machines and compare them to those offered in the USA. Not to mention cars ...

Uniformity is death !

That's why we're all here, aren't we ?

Ubuntu is also an approach to unify Linux users of all over the world. But Linux lets its users freely decide what to use exactly.

The real death sentence is to have things imposed on oneself permanently.

[Doctor Mike]

Ubuntu is also an approach to unify Linux users of all over the world. But Linux lets its users freely decide what to use exactly.

The real death sentence is to have things imposed on oneself permanently.Soap Box. Do I need to spell it?

[lisati]

I grew up in a mostly white area, where "English" was pretty much the only language that was spoken. It was rare to hear other languages. (The area has changed its demographics over the last 27 years since I moved away, and there are now plenty of "asians" living there.) I did a little bit of French and Latin at school, but have now forgotten a lot due to lack of use.

These days I live in a multicultural area, and due to family, social and work connections, have picked up a little Samoan and Māori.

/me resists urge to do a rant about differences in idiom in different locations, such as references to "kicking my donkey (http://lisati.homelinux.com/wiki/index.php/Kick_my_donkey)"

I agree with the comment earlier in the thread, that people often don't give much thought to what they're saying. Example (variants are common enough on TV shows like "Cops"): "I didn't do nothing, officer", to which it is tempting to reply, "True: instead of doing nothing, you were doing something that caught our attention."

[overdrank]

Soap Box. Do I need to spell it?
November 4th, 2006
Responding to a 4 year old post. :P