Going to buy windows XP

[anaconda]

I dont believe it.. I need a laptop, and it seems that i have to buy XP with it! Really annoying, because I am finally 100% ubuntu, and wouldn't have it any other way. (have XP in VMWare, but hope it doesn't count..)

M$ has unbeliavable monopoly.. unbeliavable..

I understand that OEM XP costs about 90€. Which is a lot from 999€ laptop. And M$ doesn't refund OEM XP:s

Actually I found some laptops, which are sold without XP, but they are more expensive than the 999€ hp pavilion dv2007ea I intend to buy.

Wouldn't want to support M$:s monopoly, but it seems that I have to...

[frodon]

Look here ;) : http://www.system76.com/

[TrendyDark]

I think Dell sells some PCs without XP, they aren't too badly priced either.

[steven8]

Check out the laptops here:

http://www.System76.com

Right from our System 76 Support Forum. Their laptops come with Ubuntu pre-installed! Not bad prices, either.

[TrendyDark]

Actually, it'd be a whole lot cheaper to get your laptop from Dell or HP, then install Ubuntu, rather than buying from System76. Sorry, but their pricing is outrageous.

[anaconda]

Hmm..
System76 looks great, but the shipping would propably cost more than XP? (to finland) And I would like to have keyboard with äöå:s

have to check dell out before I buy.

and "TrendyDark" I am afraid you are right..

[DoctorMO]

TrendyDark - It is better to pay mear money to support your principles.

Besides, there is a nice site with lots of links:http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html

[chaosgeisterchen]

Notebooks with Windows XP are cheaper for the retailer than Notebooks without Windows. Sad but true. So you will ever get the best price buying a notebook with Windows XP preinstalled.

[cunawarit]

I think Dell sells some PCs without XP, they aren't too badly priced either.

As far as I have been able to work out (at least in the UK) you can order the Dell servers with no OS or even RedHat pre-installed, however, desktop systems and laptops always come with Windows.

I share your frustration; it isn’t so much that you would save money. As you have seen buying from a supplier that pre-installs a Linux distro is often more expensive than buying from Dell with Windows pre-installed. It is the principle of the thing, why should someone have to pay Microsoft for Windows OEM when they don’t plan to use it? It is exactly this sort of monopolistic practise that harms Microsoft’s image and angers some users.

[TrendyDark]

TrendyDark - It is better to pay mear money to support your principles.

Besides, there is a nice site with lots of links:http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html

I understand the principles behind ordering from System76, but this particular user is trying to get a good price on something. Bottom line, System76 does pre-install/pre-configure everything to work, but it's just not as cheap as getting a laptop from Dell and configuring yourself.

I was also wrong about Dell selling no-OS laptops, they only sell desktop systems without an operating system. So, yes, you would be buying a system with Windows XP pre-installed, but you'd save some cash configuring it all yourself.

[Engnome]

Hmm..
System76 looks great, but the shipping would propably cost more than XP? (to finland) And I would like to have keyboard with äöå:s

have to check dell out before I buy.

and "TrendyDark" I am afraid you are right..

Try Zepto if you don't feel like buying from the USA. They are maybe a littli premium prised but they seem to have really good products. Won many awards and you can choose to have no OS.

[ago]

Do not give up. If you give up easily you will help push people that sell windows preinstalled and there will be little incentive for others to provide linux instead. Here are some tips, you basically have 3 options:

1) Try to find a retailer that sells Linux preinstalled and/or no OS, WITHOUT penalizing you for such choice

http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html
http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html
This is also interesting, you may be able to go back to the original OEM
http://tuxmobil.org/laptop_oem.html

2) Get a Laptop Barebone

http://www.google.com/search?q=laptop+barebone

3) Buy a windows machine but ask for a refund. This is the toughest route, but possibly the most satisfying one. Every single product on earth you can return back withing X days and get a refund. Except windows.... I mean in theory you should be able to ask a refund directly from the OEM, who acts as intermediary between you and Microsoft... but in practice they make it soooo difficult. The basic rule is to NEVER ACCEPT THE EULA. Google for "windows refund eula".


I had a long discussion the other day with someone claiming that there was no such thing as MS tax... Yeah sure...

PS if you find something please let us know...

[warlorddagaz]

You could make up for it by buying the windows laptop, but then writing a snotty e-mai to microsoft, and the seller, asking what they plan to do in the future. If you get no reply, sned annother e-mail. If they continue to not give replys, send the e-mail more and more until your ISP gets annoyed.

On the other hand, how much extra are you paying for XP - it might be worth finding out (more snotty e-mails!), and seing whether you can get one without XP.

just for the sake of the anti-Microsoft protest, you could go to PC World, who are giving free upgrades to Vista for any laptop costing over £399 - you could take the DVD and use it for clay pigeon shooting, or something like that.

Maybe some of these off-the-wall solutions might actually apeal to you - some of them might even work!

[cunawarit]

just for the sake of the anti-Microsoft protest, you could go to PC World, who are giving free upgrades to Vista for any laptop costing over £399 - you could take the DVD and use it for clay pigeon shooting, or something like that.

Alternatively, you can send it to me and I will... erm, dispose of it… ;)

Seriously, if you do get a full copy of Vista (not OEM) then sell it or give it away to someone who has some use for it, no point in making someone else buy Vista when you have a perfectly good license they could use.

[raqball]

I was in the same boat a while back! I purchased a laptop that was on sale (killer deal) from a local retailer. Turned on latop, open cd/dvd bay and instert Ubuntu cd. The machine never booted to *******!

I have contacted micro$oft about a refund as they say you can get one if you have not accepted the license, which I did not since it never even booted into *******.

It's been 5 months now with no response. I will write again next month if I do not hear back from them :)

[Kurt`]

TrendyDark - It is better to pay mear money to support your principles.
I'm sure most of the forum disagrees with you. That borders on blind zealotry. :/

[DoctorMO]

I'm sure most of the forum disagrees with you. That borders on blind zealotry. :/

Which part of it is blind? the part where I stick up for the underdog or the part where I put my money where my mouth is?

[cunawarit]

I have contacted micro$oft about a refund as they say you can get one if you have not accepted the license, which I did not since it never even booted into *******.

You'll enjoy this: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7040

[edoardo]

I dont believe it.. I need a laptop, and it seems that i have to buy XP with it! ...
Wouldn't want to support M$:s monopoly, but it seems that I have to...

I bought a laptop and a barebone system from them
http://www.novatech.co.uk

all run ubuntu and i did not pay the MS tax - which is optional with their system.

BTW, the laptop is for SWMBO and wireless, sound, screen brightness ... all work fine in 6.06 (no, I won't upgrade her to 6.10).

[mips]

TrendyDark - It is better to pay mear money to support your principles.


:rolleyes: It's called business! I'm not going to spend more money for something that is free.

I will much rather get a laptop with windows that costs less and then install ubuntu on it.

[DoctorMO]

mips, you do that. me I'll be sticking to my guns that bundeled software on hardware in the way M$ does breaks EU and US competition laws. if I was to buy one I'd be disregarding my principles about the law.

That is nothing to do with business, it's everything about being a moral human being.

[Gargamella]

i think it is bad to pay shipment cost so high to europe (i am from Italy)....anyway i will never take another euro cent to M$ bank

[Bartender]

You can buy an HP laptop with FreeDOS, but they're really devious about it.
Check it out. You go to this (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/321957-64295-89315-321838-f33.html?jumpid=re_R295_prodexp/busproducts/computing-notebook/go-versatile) website and pick the NC6400. $1149 they say.

If you click right on the top of the NC6400 column, you're taken to this (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25a/321957-64295-89315-321838-f33-1847703.html) page, where you can get it for $1149. With Windows.

They make it tricky to get to the "FreeDOS" option. You go back to the first page and click "Configure PC" right at the very bottom of the NC6400 column. You're taken to this (http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&ProductLineId=539&FamilyId=2384&BaseId=19195&jumpid=re_R2515_store/smProdCat/PSG/notebooks/HP_nc6400_notebook\) page, where the price magically jumps to over $1700. By the time you've chosen FreeDOS and configured the rest of it to match the $1149 NC6400, you're still at $1579.

So it's $430 cheaper with Windows?? Stupid

[megamania]

mips, you do that. me I'll be sticking to my guns that bundeled software on hardware in the way M$ does breaks EU and US competition laws. if I was to buy one I'd be disregarding my principles about the law.

That is nothing to do with business, it's everything about being a moral human being.
If you just buy a more expensive pc without windows, you waste money and haven't changed a single thing (except for feeling better when you go to sleep, and I understand you).

I agree with the importance of preserving your principles, but the best way to do it in this case would probably be to buy a ms-windows laptop and then sue Microsoft in order to get a refund.

When they get 100/1.000/1.000.000 requests for a refund, the thing goes on the news and becomes popular.
That's the best you can hope for: changing people's awareness. You'll never win such a war by yourself, or should I say we'll never win such a war by ourselves.

[ago]

I will much rather get a laptop with windows that costs less and then install ubuntu on it.

At the very least, do not bend over silently:

Make it very clear that you want a Linux machine, even if you know you are not going to get one.
If they do not provide a Linux machine. write a letter to the retailer and voice your opinion on retailer forums and customer reviews...
Really try to get the refund. There must be a law somewhere for refund and they are probably obliged to provide you with information about the rights you have when you sign the EULA. Moreover such rights probably involve the retailer itself who acts as intermediary. If they want to screw you, do not make it any easier for them!
If you are not treated properly, or they find excuse when they should provide you with a refund, make a public diary (blog) about the story,
Tell us about it, and if it is a nice story we will slash/digg it and get some "pubblicity" to the retailer...

[warlorddagaz]

You'll enjoy this: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7040

This was quite useful - maybe I should try it some time (although unfortuanately, the next computer I'm buying willl be XP/Vista, because I want to play games that won't work on Linux. However, I might try and dual boot Ubuntu (let's hope the repartitioning doesn't destroy the c: partition this time!)

[ago]

They make it tricky to get to the "FreeDOS" option.
....
So it's $430 cheaper with Windows?? Stupid

They are forced to do that.

They will get punished by MS if they listen to the customer, or by the customers if the if they listen to MS... Unfortunately MS so far has been far more convincing than the customers. I guess it is time to change that... If you can, do not buy from them (but do ask for a Linux machine, and write a letter if they do not provide it). If you can't, ask for windows refund, and blog everything.

[ago]

If you just buy a more expensive pc without windows, you waste money and haven't changed a single thing

But you have changed something.

Your money has gone to someone that sells Linux machines. That makes their business model successful and they will be able to provide Linux machines to you and to others in the future. And the more they sell, the cheaper the machines will be. It is a business where economies of scale play an important role, the money Dell saves because of its size, is greater than the cost of a windows license, so they will be able to sell machines with a license that are cheaper than equivalent machines from a small manufacturer without MS royalties. If nobody helps the little guy, he will always be subclassed. And no, he does not need to become as big as Dell, since Dell has to pay MS tax and he has not, he "only" has to grow to a medium size to become competitive...

That said, it is probably an expensive proposition, if you want to "save", do it, but let them know how you feel...

[hellmet]

WTH?? In India, most of the lappies come without an OS..
Even branded pcs just don't make it out in the market

[dpaint4]

I prefer to buy a PC from a physical store in my area, so that I can examine it closely and touch the materials -- marketing shots of PC's are almost never realistic compared to looking at it and holding it in your hands.

So unfortunately I end up obtaining useless copies of Windows all the time, and inflating Microsoft's numbers because no store in my area can afford to sell a PC without an OS and deal with the complaints from customers, or sell anything other than Windows and then have to support it.

I usually just end up giving the disks to people who want them, but even in that capacity, I'm not really happy to be spreading Windows to new 'victims'.

[shining]

I usually just end up giving the disks to people who want them, but even in that capacity, I'm not really happy to be spreading Windows to new 'victims'.

You usually get OEM license with a preinstalled windows, and I believe it's not legal to use it with another pc.

Just wanted to mention it because it makes the fact that windows is always preinstalled on laptop even more fun.
I can't use this license for a desktop that I built myself, which is used by a member of my family needing windows.

The second nice thing, which is the case with IBM but maybe others too:
the laptop didn't came with any windows cd, only a restore partition.
I deleted the partition, because I was sure it came with restore cd, I didn't even check back then.
I just recently found it out, I called IBM, and they told me the laptop is out of warranty for 2 months, so I had to pay windows again.

[warlorddagaz]

the laptop didn't came with any windows cd, only a restore partition.
I deleted the partition, because I was sure it came with restore cd, I didn't even check back then.
I just recently found it out, I called IBM, and they told me the laptop is out of warranty for 2 months, so I had to pay windows again.


When my Windows instalation went, I thought I had a reinstalation CD, but I only had the restore partition with the "compaq easy restore CD". I put this in the CD-ROM drive, and selected "restore to factory settings" (I'd never made a user backup), which would aparently sort everything out, although I would lose my files (which I'd backed up.
Of couse, the CD was a piece of poo, and did nothing. Thankfully, this was a good excuse to install Ubuntu (I still haven't told my mum that it was installing this in the first palce that caused the HDD problem!)

[mips]

mips, you do that. me I'll be sticking to my guns that bundeled software on hardware in the way M$ does breaks EU and US competition laws. if I was to buy one I'd be disregarding my principles about the law.

That is nothing to do with business, it's everything about being a moral human being.

With the last sentence you are implying that I lack morals. I strongly resent your statement !!!

[d3v1ant_0n3]

When my Windows instalation went, I thought I had a reinstalation CD, but I only had the restore partition with the "compaq easy restore CD". I put this in the CD-ROM drive, and selected "restore to factory settings" (I'd never made a user backup), which would aparently sort everything out, although I would lose my files (which I'd backed up.
Of couse, the CD was a piece of poo, and did nothing. Thankfully, this was a good excuse to install Ubuntu (I still haven't told my mum that it was installing this in the first palce that caused the HDD problem!)

This laptop came with a restore cd, but it was a PITA. I had the machine set up to dual boot windows and vista (I know, I've learned better since then). And my install borked. So I popped in the disk, and went to do a repai install on the XP partition. Except it wouldn't activate, presumably because the machine specs were different to what it should be, sue to the partitioning.

[shining]

With the last sentence you are implying that I lack morals. I strongly resent your statement !!!

Obviously, the majority of consumers aren't able to pay 500€ more for something that should cost less. There is nothing wrong about that.
There is something wrong if you're fine with the fact that the big laptop sellers always offer windows, because there are alternatives to it, and it kills this concurrence.
The prices for the same laptop should also be lower when windows isn't included, otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

[drivel]

When I bought my laptop,Lenovo sent me a Windows Pro OEM.
But I only use Ubuntu now...lol~

[Bartender]

When I bought my laptop,Lenovo sent me a Windows Pro OEM.
You saying you got a genuine Windows OS CD? Not a "Restore" CD? How'd you accomplish that? Just a coupla weeks ago I went to 2 Best Buy's, one Circuit City, and one CompUSA. I told 'em I wanted a real true Windows CD with the laptop. They all said that wasn't possible.

[warlorddagaz]

You saying you got a genuine Windows OS CD? Not a "Restore" CD? How'd you accomplish that? Just a coupla weeks ago I went to 2 Best Buy's, one Circuit City, and one CompUSA. I told 'em I wanted a real true Windows CD with the laptop. They all said that wasn't possible.

With Dell, you can have a reinstallation CD, but you have to pay £6 for the privilage.

[mahy]

I've seen some bare ASUS laptops of late. Nice stuff, i'd buy one if i didn't have a laptop already.

[.t.]

I haven't read through the whole thread, but I would assume someone's already brought this up: http://linux.vandeplas.com/acer/winrefund.htm

The EULA states that if you disagree, you DO NOT HAVE TO PAY! Don't use it, and promptly ask for a refund. Notify the vendor on purchase that this is indeed how you feel.

[.t.]

With Dell, you can have a reinstallation CD, but you have to pay £6 for the privilage.

Well, I asked for mine before they introduced the charge. So, although I detest closed source software, I am pretty pleased that I avoided that, when I may have had to pay; if I hadn't gone completely free later on, that is...

[drFUNK]

With Dell, you can have a reinstallation CD, but you have to pay £6 for the privilage.

That's only if you get the CD shipped with the computer. If you call CS after you receive the system, they'll send you one for free - at least that was the case for everyone I know.

[Cyraxzz]

I'm really tired of that most laptops have windows pre-installed.

[PenguinMan]

:rolleyes: It's called business! I'm not going to spend more money for something that is free.

I will much rather get a laptop with windows that costs less and then install ubuntu on it.
With an attitude like that, it is no wonder that Linux builders struggle to gain acceptance. In case you don't realise it, smaller computer builders don't have the volume that DELL has. Therefore, the products are going to be naturally higher, because the cost to the builder is higher.

Dee, dee, dee. :rolleyes:

[mips]

With an attitude like that, it is no wonder that Linux builders struggle to gain acceptance. In case you don't realise it, smaller computer builders don't have the volume that DELL has. Therefore, the products are going to be naturally higher, because the cost to the builder is higher.

Dee, dee, dee. :rolleyes:

Besides lacking morals I now have an attitude problem, this just gets better. Bring on more name calling, my skin is thick.

Your argument does not make sense to me seeing S76 sells barebones ASUS laptops that have been rebranded. Barebones ASUS laptops built to spec are a LOT cheaper than what S76 sells them for even though it's the EXACTLY the same product.

You can roll your eyes all you want and make funny sounds all you like but I can see when I'm about to be taken for a ride.

[warlorddagaz]

With an attitude like that, it is no wonder that Linux builders struggle to gain acceptance. In case you don't realise it, smaller computer builders don't have the volume that DELL has. Therefore, the products are going to be naturally higher, because the cost to the builder is higher.

Dee, dee, dee. :rolleyes:

This may be the case, but computers are expensive - alot of people don't have the money to buy a more expensive computer just to support their morals - I would really like to build my own computer, which would allow me to choose exactly what I want as the components, choose an operating system and the like. But I don't have anywhere near the amount of money to pay for even a decent graphics card.

We're planning on buying a new computer soon. Because of various reasons, we need Windows, but even if we didn't, I'd still buy a computer with windows because they are cheaper, and there is no way we could get what we want on our buget without Windows.

I understand what you're saying about Linux builders not being able to give low prices, but thats something you have to put up with in a fledgling business.

[cunawarit]

With an attitude like that, it is no wonder that Linux builders struggle to gain acceptance. In case you don't realise it, smaller computer builders don't have the volume that DELL has. Therefore, the products are going to be naturally higher, because the cost to the builder is higher.

Dee, dee, dee. :rolleyes:

You can't expect everyone who uses Linux to share your views, let alone morals. Linux users come in all shapes and sizes, some even admire Microsoft...

I may pay a tiny little bit more for a system that is Linux ready, simply because I know that all the hardware will work and it was built with Linux in mind. Then again I am not swimming in money, so more likely than not I would go for a company like Novatech (http://www.novatech.co.uk) that sells computers with no OS cheaply.

[.t.]

Stop fighting, people.

[MedivhX]

LOL!!! .t. you're right!!! You must stop fighting!!!

[ice60]

i bought a new computer with XP preinstalled and just installed linux over it. if linux can't get it's act together and have computers at the same price, or cheaper, then i'll get a preinstalled xp. i like linux, but not that much :rolleyes:


PenguinMan with an attitude like yours linux will never get anywhere. you are helping make linux weak.

edit - sorry, i meant PenguinMan lol

[mips]

i bought a new computer with XP preinstalled and just installed linux over it. if linux can't get it's act together and have computers at the same price, or cheaper, then i'll get a preinstalled xp. i like linux, but not that much :rolleyes:


PenguinMan with an attitude like yours linux will never get anywhere. you are helping make linux weak.

sorry, i meant PenguinMan lol

You heretic, infidel ! Where are your morals ? We don't need attitudes like yours.

That is how the zealots are going to brand you.

But don't worry, I will burn at the stake with you :mrgreen:

[ice60]

yeah, well i love linux, but i just don't believe in supporting something which is weak and will hold it back. it just doesn't make sense to me.

[qamelian]

Notebooks with Windows XP are cheaper for the retailer than Notebooks without Windows. Sad but true. So you will ever get the best price buying a notebook with Windows XP preinstalled.
People keep saying this but it just isn't true. The problem is that most of the vendors who sell OS free systems are small vendors whose prices are higher because of lack of sales volume. If you can get an OS free system from a larger vendor. You can save up to $200 Canadian on systems without XP Pro installed. I've purchased many systems like this from a variety of vendors for my Linux-using clients and I have never paid more for a system without Windows.