What is Michael Robertson of Linspire thinking?!

[Stormy Eyes]

According to this interview at HEXUS.net, Michael Robertson of Linspire thinks that it's safe to run as root (http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD0xMTIxJnVybF9wYWdlPTE =). Considering that under Windows 2000 and XP, most Windows apps demand admin privileges and it's damned easy to install malware without knowing it, what would possess Robertson to claim that running with superuser privileges is safe?

[somuchfortheafter]

..... interesting....

[TravisNewman]

Wow. Simply put. Wow. *L* That's really all I can say.

[bored2k]

I think he's trying to proove that Linspire is so easy/good/safe that it's harmless to run it with supertux powers (..NOT).


Michael: Then you could say "Well, it's not really about your data, it's that people could accidentally mess things up!". Well, you could accidentally drive into a wall as well, it doesn't mean we should make all cars drive at 10 miles an hour. So, I don't see the added benefit. I DO see it's an added pain in the ass when grandma tries to change her wallpaper, and it tells her "you don't have root privileges".
The "move to trash" button on GNOME is wicked fast, it could move /boot/ with ease to ~/.Trash, rendering your machina unbootable (just an example). Running things as root is frightfully dangerous move IMHO (respect to him -- I still don't like his idea though..). We all love to play CLI, and having a root rm -rf / mv command on a non experienced hand is freaky..

Not that I'm drinking my http://img201.echo.cx/img201/6863/hatorade6xb.gif , but I don't agree with him at all.

[carlc]

I think, like everything, it's a question of balance. Ease of use, versus security.

Sounds like someone wants to draw in the average windows user to the operating system formerly known as Lindows.

[HungSquirrel]

He should ask the average Windows user plagued by adware, spyware, and viruses if running as a superuser all the time is the most brilliant idea in the world.

[poofyhairguy]

This is stupid. Linux's permision system is great. He wants to emulate Windows where is permission system is very flawed (worst thing in my opinion).

Oh well, at least he get a headline or to; doing his job...

[TravisNewman]

good point (again). He got Linspire noticed again-- this is all over /.
Well, there's one story about it *L* but the natives are quite restless.

[maqi]

OMFG :shock: Is he for real?

Your data is the most precious thing on your computer. And whether you log in as root or log in as user, you have access to that data, technically anyone who's compromising your account has access to your data as well.

So I suppose that "technically" speaking, if someone manages to compromise your user account they've earned the right to trash your whole system including any other user accounts/data on the box :confused:


I DO see it's an added pain in the ass when grandma tries to change her wallpaper, and it tells her "you don't have root privileges". What are you talking about, man? I'm just trying to use my computer, or change the clock, or any one of a hundred other things.
You need root privileges on Linspire just to "use your computer" or change your wallpaper? :shock:

Still, for ppl who are only used to Microsoft the consequences of messing up as root will definitely make them feel more at home :grin:

maqi

[Jesus Franco]

I used linspire 5 (based on debian....) and the only thing I have to say is its a good distro for N00bs...not for no one else. Options are hidden and hard to find. At least its fast...I used it and it is faster than version 4 and 4.5....A plus is its ui. Those custom icons and skin is a plus. BUT it does things windows does so that defeats the purpose of making the switch. When I plugin my ipod it moddified my fstab automatically without my permission and i wasnt logged in as root :roll:

Some things it did made me want to slap it. If it was more administrator friendly I would recomend it. But it is designed for kids. Its UI is very cartonish...looks like a cross of XP and OSX.... Drop shadows are a plus but they are VERY buggy (its done using software) And to have to pay to get GIMP and other apps IS STUPID!!!! They are charging for free software as if charging for the OS isnt enough. Isnt it illegal to charge for gpl applications? And if u host the app dont you need to host the code as well? Linspire doesnt host any of the sources of thier applications.

2 of the included apps are complete rips of OSX programs. Lsongs is a iTunes rip and even the music store looks like iTMS. Lphoto looks like iPhoto...shame on YOU Lin$pire. You wanna be m$ [-X

[HungSquirrel]

Isnt it illegal to charge for gpl applications?
Nope.

[bigzak]

And to have to pay to get GIMP and other apps IS STUPID!!!! They are charging for free software as if charging for the OS isnt enough. Isnt it illegal to charge for gpl applications? And if u host the app dont you need to host the code as well? Linspire doesnt host any of the sources of thier applications.

It's fine to charge for GPL applications if you want. That's how RedHat et al make their money, after all. In fact, what you are paying for in Linspire is the click'n'run packaging. In other words, the ability to just go an click it and it be there without having to figure out how synaptic or apt works and such like. I know it's ridiculous as you could just apt-get it, but for the complete techno-n00b who will be using Linspire it's the easiest way.

Of course, they could just use Ubuntu ;)

[Magneto]

youve stumbled on his master plan. Create a new generation of stupid users to exploit like Bill Gates. Stupid users who compromise their own security and need to purchase help.

[poofyhairguy]

youve stumbled on his master plan. Create a new generation of stupid users to exploit like Bill Gates. Stupid users who compromise their own security and need to purchase help.

I bet they hate free Debians like Ubuntu...

[Magneto]

I bet they hate free Debians like Ubuntu...
Who would even use Linspire anyway? People not smart enough to get a pirated copy of XP or another version of Linux on their walmart pc?

[TravisNewman]

Well, I wouldn't put it QUITE like that-- I'm sure there are people who choose to use Lindows (because I hate the new name-- I'll probably continue to say Mandrake as well) after they've used other distros, though I'll never know why. But I'd guess MOSTLY people who use it are people who don't know anything about Linux and want something cheaper.

[KiwiNZ]

I have used Linspire and and installed it on a number of machines. Its not that bad it is very user friendly , easy to install, and looks good from user perspective.
And you dont have to run as root .

And the more users there are using Linux be it Mandriva , Suse , Linspire and pick of the crop Ubuntu the better.

I also dont believe there is stupid users , there are users who have diferent levels of skill based on their usage and interest .

[Magneto]

Linblows and Manrape are great products! Ubuntu is a distant third behind them.

Jokes aside I'm happy to see any form of linux without a MS symbol next to it prepackaged on a PC. Mr. Robertson is not serving himself or linux well with his utterances.

[Magneto]

I also dont believe there is stupid users , there are users who have diferent levels of skill based on their usage and interest .
the informed and uninformed- people who think being superuser is nothing special are at best uninformed

[poofyhairguy]

I have used Linspire and and installed it on a number of machines. Its not that bad it is very user friendly , easy to install, and looks good from user perspective.

I guess someone actually buys it, or it would go away....

[nocturn]

There you go, the man has finally gone crazy.

[TravisNewman]

There you go, the man has finally gone crazy.
I think he's gone perfectly sane. Think about how much this gets people talking about his distro, and appealing to people who don't know better.

[nocturn]

I think he's gone perfectly sane. Think about how much this gets people talking about his distro, and appealing to people who don't know better.

You may very well be right, unfortunately...

[KiwiNZ]

Its all about profile. And he is trying to raise the profile of Linux and Linspire in particular and he is succeeding and that is good .

[TravisNewman]

It's good, I guess, but he's succeeding by lying to the public about their personal security. That's NOT good.

[MetalMusicAddict]

This is stupid. Linux's permision system is great. He wants to emulate Windows where is permission system is very flawed (worst thing in my opinion).

Oh well, at least he get a headline or to; doing his job...
Left as-is I think your right but cant you define permissions in XP finer than you can in Linux?

[ssam]

thats almost as silly as saying its safe to run a system with out a firewall.

oops, we do that. um. silly mr robertson

[KiwiNZ]

It's good, I guess, but he's succeeding by lying to the public about their personal security. That's NOT good.

Agreed.
I guess guys like Michael Robertson run on adrenalin . Unfortunately in many cases that causes the passion for the product /situation engage before the common sense parts of the brain.

[poofyhairguy]

Left as-is I think your right but cant you define permissions in XP finer than you can in Linux?

And you can in his version of Linuxs well. The difference (and the biggest problem in the Window's world in my opinion) is that VERY many 3rd party apps (and a few Microsoft apps) don't work when you are not in the administrator mode. Some apps need to have administrator mode (ubuntu prompts for installing apps and other things), but in Windowsland lots of apps ask for admin mode that shouldn't. Like image apps, camera apps, Quicken (that one kept me from securing my mom's box up.), and many others that are used by millions of window's users. Problem is that elevated priveldges was bolted on, and now they pay the piper for that. Spyware and viruses would be much less of a problem if it was harder to install them.

[N'Jal]

Two point i want to answer that were touched on previously.

1) There are many sites dedicated to giving Linspire away for free. After all it IS Linux and GPL therefor anyone has the right to do what they want with it. Linspire charge for GPL apps people just give Linspire away, its all legal

2)
Its all about profile. And he is trying to raise the profile of Linux and Linspire in particular and he is succeeding and that is good . HAVE YOU SEEN THE LINSPIRE PROMO'S? They suck realy bad, reminds me of the XP adds when they came out. If i can find the ad link i will post it, it was only a preview but it looked bad. Cheesy is the word from the add i REALLY didnt wanna buy it.

[TravisNewman]

Two point i want to answer that were touched on previously.

1) There are many sites dedicated to giving Linspire away for free. After all it IS Linux and GPL therefor anyone has the right to do what they want with it. Linspire charge for GPL apps people just give Linspire away, its all legal

2) HAVE YOU SEEN THE LINSPIRE PROMO'S? They suck realy bad, reminds me of the XP adds when they came out. If i can find the ad link i will post it, it was only a preview but it looked bad. Cheesy is the word from the add i REALLY didnt wanna buy it.
Yep, but I don't htink you can use click and run without paying for it, regardless-- that may be proprietary software, or it may be GPL software that connects to a subscription based service-- not sure. But regardless, that's the showstopper for getting Linspire without paying. Click and Run is their big selling point, without that it's just Debian with some pretty pictures, so to speak.

And yes, all of Linspire's promos, even the ones for other products (such as OOoFF) are less than satisfactory. They look like scam websites or something. To me anyway.

[zyiro]

i honestly think he has fallen off the deepend. Ive run linux for about 9 years now and have never had any reason to run a system as root. yeah ill log in as root or SU on occasion, but 99.99999999999999999999998 percent of the time you can do what you need under a standard user account.


lets say you work in an office and your logged in as root and you leave your machine on and someone decides to mess wiht your computer, if the computer is logged in as root there is no stopping them.



this is just my 2 cents on the subject....


-Garrett

[Takis]

I love it how he compares not using a root account as a standard account is similar to driving everywhere at 10 miles an hour. :roll: That's such a silly analogy I don't even know where to begin. I'd compare running around 24/7 with a root account to driving without a speedo.

And then the thing about needing root permissions to change a wallpaper - obviously he's exaggerating, but how do non-Linux users know that?

I would put it that he's not preying on stupid computer users, but poorly-advised ones. Find me one Linux user who's capable of telling a buddy how to fix a problem who'd use Linspire.
<flameshield> :grin:
Even Fedora users can feel 1337 compared to Linspire.
</flameshield>

[Magneto]

I love it how he compares not using a root account as a standard account is similar to driving everywhere at 10 miles an hour. :roll: That's such a silly analogy I don't even know where to begin. I'd compare running around 24/7 with a root account to driving without a speedo.

And then the thing about needing root permissions to change a wallpaper - obviously he's exaggerating, but how do non-Linux users know that?

I would put it that he's not preying on stupid computer users, but poorly-advised ones. Find me one Linux user who's capable of telling a buddy how to fix a problem who'd use Linspire.
<flameshield> :grin:
Even Fedora users can feel 1337 compared to Linspire.
</flameshield>
that 10 mile an hour analogy is retarded

its more like do you carry all of your money with you when you go to the store? or do you put in a bank and use a credit card to make purchases

its for security and it doesn't slow anyone down except criminals ;)

[weekend warrior]

The analogy he used is just bizarre. A correct one would be:

run as user = wear your seatbelt

run as root = don't wear it, take your chances and fly out the windscreen ](*,) when you have an accident!

What's worse, the "grandma can't change the wallpaper" bit does a disservice to the Linux community. This is how misinformation gets started. Now perhaps someone who's never used Linux before thinks it's impossible to change wallpaper without root priviledges. Well, one less potential Linux user out there. Thank you Mr. Robertson :^o That really helps the Linux cause :roll:

[Brunellus]

The analogy he used is just bizarre. A correct one would be:

run as user = wear your seatbelt

run as root = don't wear it, take your chances and fly out the windscreen ](*,) when you have an accident!

What's worse, the "grandma can't change the wallpaper" bit does a disservice to the Linux community. This is how misinformation gets started. Now perhaps someone who's never used Linux before thinks it's impossible to change wallpaper without root priviledges. Well, one less potential Linux user out there. Thank you Mr. Robertson :^o That really helps the Linux cause :roll:
I think it's fair to say that Mr. Robertson would be more interested in making the case for Linspire than he is in making the case for GNU/Linux in general.

That said, I've been thinking a great deal about this lately, actually. Most users expect to be able to do everything on their computer, since Windows gives all users full privileges by default. The fact that they might be prompted for their passwords to do things like install new software is an annoyance to them--Bonzi Buddy never asked for their password before!

[poofyhairguy]

The fact that they might be prompted for their passwords to do things like install new software is an annoyance to them--Bonzi Buddy never asked for their password before!

Apple is like "king of ease of use" and thats where Ubuntu's sudo idea came from.

In a separate note, I think that the Linspire guy hates Ubuntu:


I also received a negative report from one reader who couldn't get Ubuntu to work properly on his laptop, and another from the founder and president of a company that sells a commercial Linux that I've found to be less than impressive. I suppose that when you're trying to convince people to pay good money for a user-friendly Linux, the last thing you want to read is that some outfit shipping free copies of its distribution is doing a fine job.

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120882,00.asp

[Brunellus]

Apple is like "king of ease of use" and thats where Ubuntu's sudo idea came from.

In a separate note, I think that the Linspire guy hates Ubuntu:



http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120882,00.asp

I didn't know Apple used a sudo arrangement. How does theirs work? I have to say, after being initially skeptical about having root disabled by default, I've gotten to like sudo from the command-line--it saves my having to switch to root and then switching back.

Mr. R. should take more time to stress the positives of his distribution rather than dumping hate onto Ubuntu... Linspire deserves props for being as close to user-invisible as possible, though. My local MicroCenter is selling Linspire desktops, and the amusing thing is watching people walk up and interact with them like any of the other WinXP desktops on the display floor. I know it's nothing more than a Debian-daughter running a skinned KDE 3.4, but somehow it all *works*....including those pesky multimedia codecs.

[poofyhairguy]

I didn't know Apple used a sudo arrangement. How does theirs work?

Just like ours:

http://applematters.com/index.php/section/comments/how_os_9_helped_me_repair_os_x_1028/

[Kyral]

On topic: I don't think most Windows users even KNOW that you can have an account without admin privs

Semi-OnTopic: I didn't like the sudo arrangement at first, but now I love it. Besides, if you really need to do things as root in the command lne, you can always sudo su