Windows Vista: a time for Ubuntu to attack!

[danaktivix]

Microsoft are working up to launching Vista, and the world's users and businesses will face the prospect of being pretty much forced to switch (despite early reports (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4754462.stm) that it's fairly naff, and most of its 'new' features have been available elsewhere for years.)

So - what's the Ubuntu community doing to take advantage of this?

What *could* happen: ads everywhere showing the relative costs of Vista to Ubuntu: for home users, small businesses and large corporate implementations. (And e.g. highlighting xubuntu, which can lower costs even more, whereas Vista will force millions into upgrading their machines; not very environmentally friendly!)

Oh, this so should happen! I'll help! We just need a group of people to get together to plan a campaign...

Who best to talk to, though? (p.s. I'm writing from the UK...)

[aysiu]

It should happen, but it won't.

Companies and home users alike will:

A) Stick with XP for a while

or

B) Buy Vista (or a computer with Vista preinstalled)

It's very doubtful many businesses or individuals will

C) Feel the need to upgrade or make a change right now but not have the money for Vista.

[v8YKxgHe]

Oh, this so should happen! I'll help! We just need a group of people to get together to plan a campaign...

I'd like to help, not just because I am fed up of Microsoft or that I belive Linux is superior - but because I would like people to have their freedom back.

[total wormage]

(off-topic (so soon?, sorry))

i know the world would be a better place if all software would be GPL, but why this constant babbling about 'attacking' microsoft and its software?
Last week i saw a illustration about the alternative software for microsoft software (office / windows etc.). Microsoft was illustrated as a giant castle with many doors being under attack by Linux, Mozilla, Solaris and SUN and whatever more.
Why not see those alternatives as alternatives and let people choose what to use. I personally dislike hearing of a product for the first time while it is 'attacking' other products... (this could be just me)

Ubuntu is about sharing pleasure (right?) because you're happy i`m happy.. why not distribute the product Ubuntu in a positive manner other than "YOU SHOULD USE UBUNTU CAUSE WINDOWS SUCKS"

i know your thread isn't this agressive but the word 'attack' in the title is :]

(i`m babbling now, forgive me)

Ads everywhere would be beautiful! So I would direct all people to the Ubuntu Poster Competition thread at: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=248546 (competition is closed by the way ;])
And order this nice poster (http://www.monipodio.net/tmp/poster-layout.jpg) and spread the word on a positive way.!

[danaktivix]

Hmm, I think attack might still be the right word - like a viral attack!

Why? Open platforms are benefiting huge amounts of people (as a fledgling Java programmer, I can appreciate the benefits of a platform that can run on absolutely anything, and Sun are at least reasonably open about working with partners, even if they're not quite 'free as in freedom.')

Microsoft are damaging. They have a map of every single computer that doesn't have genuine windows: they could shut them down - but they don't. Why? Becuase they need everyone to be addicted to them. If they shut down the millions of illegal users, they would be so much more likely to end up with something like Ubuntu.

No company should have that much power (even if their CEO gives lots of money to help rid the world of Malaria...!)

[total wormage]

i agree on the 'no company should have this much power' point, but wouldn't it be nice if people make the choice by themselves :]
in other words not 'attack microsoft' but 'offer alternative'

never mind this en my previous post, as they are a bit off-topic

[Overcast32]

Yeah - just wait till Mom, Dad and Grandma' go look at the price of Vista...

Toss them a Unbuntu CD for free or let them check out your PC...

lol

Money is a VERY significant motivating factor.

You know why the price of Gas dropped, right? Had nothing to do with Partican Politics... OPEC seen huge interest in alternative fuel develeopment and people started looking for oil (new field in Louisiana ~ 50 Billion Barrels, so I heard)...

Yes, money notiviates. They dropped the price per barrel because the sky-high price made it 'feasible' to develop new fuels and find oil elsewhere.

Can't think that OS's aren't the same. Look at 'big blue's' attitude years ago. Now look at IBM - no one EVER thought back in the late 70's / early 80's that IBM wouldn't rule the computer world.

Now people pretty much laugh at them. The tide can change quickly

[aysiu]

Money is a VERY significant motivating factor. Which is why "mom and pop" will stick with Windows XP (or 2000 or ME or 98) until they feel their computer is "too old."

When that happens (in two or three years), whatever new computer they buy will have Vista preloaded on it.

[Shay Stephens]

I have at least two vendors who can and will supply me with computers that don't have windows. So there is hope that I won't be forced into getting vista ;-)

[v8YKxgHe]

but wouldn't it be nice if people make the choice by themselves :]

How are they going to choose by them selves if it's not Advertised well/enough and don't know about Ubuntu?

[Overcast32]

Which is why "mom and pop" will stick with Windows XP (or 2000 or ME or 98) until they feel their computer is "too old."

When that happens (in two or three years), whatever new computer they buy will have Vista preloaded on it.

Question is too - what kinda licensing fees will Dell have to pay? How much will that cause them to raise PC prices?

Will it make Dell less attractive? (Insert whatever company name in place of Dell there).

Dunno - I know a number of 'normal' non-techies who upgrade their OS... My dad likes to stay fairly current and for what he does, he never needs Windows. Mainly web-surfing, Converting his old Media to MP3, etc...All of which Ubuntu can do well.

I do see your point too Aysiu.

But I'm gonna get this loaded and purring along. Then people will start to ask questions, I'm sure.

I am in NO way opposed to Microsoft at all - I just think their ego is getting ahead of themselves. With Gates 'stepping down' - I had a feeling a more 'corporate' mentality of 'get every penny' would start to sink in. Just like the RIAA has for years..

And no one at all ever thought for one second, up until Napster - that the recording industry would ever become 'obsolete'. But truth be told, they are now.

I could record my own songs (assuming I had any musical talent, lol)... Then put them out on the File Sharing Networks, and even though I'm unknown, I'd stand at least an equal chance of having people listen to my music. The old 'recording' industry model meant you had to know someone and then get out on radio stations - that's not so true anymore..

Same goes with Media... Did you hear NBC might be laying people off soon? Internet News is about all I use anymore.

I don't hope to see Microsoft die - just offer a good product at a fair price, that's all. I don't mind one bit buying it, but I'm simply not going to pay 500 bucks for Vista.. I'll run on XP until I can't anymore. I only need Windows for ONE reason - video game. All the rest, I can do on just about any OS.

[.t.]

Well, until Microsoft and the RIAA and the BPI and all other non-free capitalist corporations recognise freedom, I do hope to see then die. Communism doesn't work, but the computer is showing that nor does standard capitalism. Why should it? It's an old model now. We need to move on. I'm liberal, and I'd love to see that happen. It will happen slowly, indeed, but as free software grows, it's user and developer base will grow. As this happens, the move from capitalism will speed up. I don't expect it to happen any quicker than Debian's release cycle though...

[drbobit]

The thing is as soon as you venture beyond people who could be described as windows "power users", the vast majority have never heard of Ubuntu and most think Linux still looks like DOS ](*,)

At the same time many people (who would confess to know nearly nothing of computers) have used my machine and barely noticed it's not windows.

I think the problem is two fold:

1. Lack of knowledge, people do not know serious linux alternatives exist

2. While every computer comes with Windows, the true cost is hidden by being bundled with what is always gonna be an expensive item; a new computer.

If Dell or similar retailers where to offer machines with say Ubuntu and open office rather than the Msoft alternatives that was say £200 cheaper I think that would be very interesting...

[aysiu]

As soon as you venture beyond Windows power users, few have even heard of Vista either.

[cunawarit]

What *could* happen: ads everywhere showing the relative costs of Vista to Ubuntu: for home users, small businesses and large corporate implementations.

Believe it or not many businesses do consider alternatives, and they do weigh the total cost of ownership of software, and sometimes conclude (rightly or wrongly) that opting for commercial software is cheaper overall.

I am not saying there shouldn't be an information campaign, just saying that don't assume that just because you do that you will convince many. There is plenty of information out there weighed in favor of both camps. This campaign will just be another drop in that information bucket.

[Foudre]

i agree on the 'no company should have this much power' point, but wouldn't it be nice if people make the choice by themselves :]
in other words not 'attack microsoft' but 'offer alternative'

never mind this en my previous post, as they are a bit off-topic

However for most people there is no choice, they see mac or windows you bring up linux and they've never heard about it, despite they have a tivo, play online games that run on linux servers.....

if people had the choice then they might take it. but as far as they know mac or windows. they buy a computer from a company it comes with windows on it, the operating system choices they usualy ignored were windows this or the more expensive windows with no differance except in the boot loader (lol refereing to xp home and pro, and even funnier pro cost more then media center when media center is pro with and couple extra programs that come with it)

so the main thing is not neccasarrily telling people to use ubuntu but telling people what ubuntu is

[Foudre]

Yeah - just wait till Mom, Dad and Grandma' go look at the price of Vista...

Toss them a Unbuntu CD for free or let them check out your PC...

lol

Money is a VERY significant motivating factor.

You know why the price of Gas dropped, right? Had nothing to do with Partican Politics... OPEC seen huge interest in alternative fuel develeopment and people started looking for oil (new field in Louisiana ~ 50 Billion Barrels, so I heard)...

Yes, money notiviates. They dropped the price per barrel because the sky-high price made it 'feasible' to develop new fuels and find oil elsewhere.

Can't think that OS's aren't the same. Look at 'big blue's' attitude years ago. Now look at IBM - no one EVER thought back in the late 70's / early 80's that IBM wouldn't rule the computer world.

Now people pretty much laugh at them. The tide can change quickly


they still have 60% plus in home computers and several servers

[Foudre]

Believe it or not many businesses do consider alternatives, and they do weigh the total cost of ownership of software, and sometimes conclude (rightly or wrongly) that opting for commercial software is cheaper overall.

I am not saying there shouldn't be an information campaign, just saying that don't assume that just because you do that you will convince many. There is plenty of information out there weighed in favor of both camps. This campaign will just be another drop in that information bucket.

aie, i may despise micronothard, but i still had to look at vista (i figured i would be forced to use it at some point and help people with it) i must say i tried to like it, but fewer options exsist beyond what is visible, an operating system that restricts certian locations from beinb modified even as administrator, (tried messing with the boot) and non customizables every else ie7 the menu bar is gone, you have to hit alt to bring it up, media player 11 has not one option avaialible. I tried it, i attepmeted to remain neutral but i must admit i'm dissapointed. though my printer worked byistelf that was cool (it had problems before in xp and ubuntu). The dvd region code setitng has not one help item attached to it other then a one paragraph thing that lies saying its coded to work in othre regions based on standard, they say something with pal and ect... I can't stand for a help item to lie to you, its says you have to buy a dvd coded for you region, even though it was a region 1 dvd and my region wsa set to 1.

OH almost forgot they now when they change the settings for regions want to write the settings to the drive itself so you can't put it in another computer (so they think if you want ot watch foreign films, they have the right to break your dvd drive.......) I'll keep it for games only, i want to keep it for halo 2 on pc (vista only.. bastards) they know alot of people would want this so they are forcing bungie to make it vista only, they know some people might upgrade for it, but i won't lol at the price vista is i would be cheaper to buy a xbox 360 and get halo 2

300 dollar operating system for the standard comeon now, thats rediculous

[bobbybobington]

I definately think ubuntu needs more exposure. Think of all the testamonials of people who stumbled across ubuntu by chance or heard of it from a friend and love it. Ubuntu isn't right for everyone, but we could definately increase awareness of linux, which is probably the number one problem.

I dont think pressuring canonical into a marketing blitz is the right thing to do, they need to do whats best for themselves. However if they could distribute kits to ulugs that would be nice :). But the bulk of marketing should be done by the community, and canonical should facilitate that as much as possible.

[justin whitaker]

I definately think ubuntu needs more exposure. Think of all the testamonials of people who stumbled across ubuntu by chance or heard of it from a friend and love it. Ubuntu isn't right for everyone, but we could definately increase awareness of linux, which is probably the number one problem.

I dont think pressuring canonical into a marketing blitz is the right thing to do, they need to do whats best for themselves. However if they could distribute kits to ulugs that would be nice :). But the bulk of marketing should be done by the community, and canonical should facilitate that as much as possible.

I really like this more measured approach. The minute any linux, um..advocates start bashing Microsoft, people tend to tune out.

It's not like Ubuntu isn't getting exposure: PCWorld, MaximumPC, etc...lots of the standard PC technology rags are saying nice things.

What we need to do is be very cool about it.
If you start going negative, and run through the streets with Penguin flags...well, most people will think that the alternative is OSX, not Linux.

Be ready to help those that need it, keep our anti-Microsoft rhetoric in check, and basically say: Ubuntu is a different way of computing-what can we do to help you?

[DoctorMO]

Why not see those alternatives as alternatives and let people choose what to use. I personally dislike hearing of a product for the first time while it is 'attacking' other products... (this could be just me)

Because microsoft arn't willing to play fair in the software market. because Linux developers have spent millions of pounds worth of their time making linux compatable to horrible, technicaly asinine protocols and formats that they wouldn't have had to do should microsoft not have been in the near god like position it's in.

[.t.]

And then, when people say Windows is better, for whatever reason than Ubuntu, they only say it from the experience of having it come with a new computer. If they installed it themselves, it would be a different story. When Ubuntu is in this position, people will be crawling all over it.

[Carrots171]

I agree that Ubuntu needs more exposure. People consider Macintosh an option and not Linux because they've never heard of Linux before! Macintosh is only slightly more popular than Linux (around 1% more popular or something like that), yet everyone knows about Macintosh and few know about Linux. Why? Partially because of all the commercials. They have more commercials than Microsoft! I've seen more Apple commecials than I can count over the summer and no Microsoft advertisements. Partially because of the iPod giving Apple and their simimilarly styled computers attention. And partially because of the Apple Stores all over the place. People go there to buy iPods and they also see the cool-looking Macs (as well as marketing for them) on the side. And partially due to Apple's previous successes; the original iMac was the best-selling computer in the US and Japan for months and had an impact on popular culture.


And then, when people say Windows is better, for whatever reason than Ubuntu, they only say it from the experience of having it come with a new computer. If they installed it themselves, it would be a different story. When Ubuntu is in this position, people will be crawling all over it.

Ubuntu may never get to this position. Canonical would have to become just as large and powerful as Microsoft is, and that probably won't happen.


It's not like Ubuntu isn't getting exposure: PCWorld, MaximumPC, etc...lots of the standard PC technology rags are saying nice things.

Ubuntu is still unknown to the general public because most of the people who read those publications are computer geeks.

[danaktivix]

Tell you what I might do: I think I'll ask the small/medium 'ethical-trading' company I was recently working for: what would it take for you to start shifting over to linux / ubuntu?

Difficult for them because they're ethical landlords: tenants coming in will be familiar with Windows. Having said that, they're all generally volunteer-sector groups - so I wonder what the various volunteer-support bodies around the UK think? I know a few councils have taken the plunge and gone open-source...

[rshd301]

Anyone read this yet? Puts things in perspective:-

[rshd301]

Oops, forgot the link...
http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2006/10/19/forbidding_vistas_windows_licensing_disserves_the_ user.html

[JAPrufrock]

Yeah, I agree that Microsoft is vulnerable- more so now with their new Vista user policies. However, I don't think that most home computer users are ready to take the Linux plunge because they're either unwilling or unable to install a Linux distro and keep it functioning. The biggest potential market may be businesses that discover that Linux is a viable economic alternative to MS. Google certainly found that to be true. Businesses can usually afford to employ a computer geek or two to run their computers- so, if Linux is cheaper (and often better), why not use a Linux distro? The biggest problem, of course, is the lack of supported software/hardware.

[kilkiol]

Linux will never beat Windows on the desktop period.

Why should someone use Linux over Windows? Everything is made for Windows and it will always be like that. security? does the average user even think or even care about that?

Yes there is alot of comparable apps on linux but half of them are junk.

comparing the two OS's is stupid... they are totally different.

X is a pile of sh****t!!!!

I love UNIX and all but please stop comparing the two or saying it will take over one of these days... cause its not going to happen! They both have there place in this world.

[Foudre]

hmm, alot of the software is better on linux, only a few things aren't, video editing for one. Its getting better every day, if there were more user on other OSes people would make things for them, microsoft is ******* alot of people off, even non techies, a family i'm good freinds with i put SuSE on their computer after they had too many troulbes with windows, and they havn't had problems since, they won't be buying vista or another xp

[JAPrufrock]

Linux will never beat Windows on the desktop period.

Never is a long time. Who knows where Linux and MS will be in 10-50 years. More so in countries like Argentina and Brazil- their govenments decided that they didn't want to be held hostage by Microsoft and so opted to use Linux in government agencies. Time will tell.

I have a dual boot system, and generally prefer to use Linux. I'm not sure how much that has to do with me hating Microsoft. Trying to be objective, I would say that Ubuntu compares favorably with XP. I do better online, use openoffice instead of MS office, think that GIMP is great, and am amazed at how well Linux manages memory. I'm also amazed at how it almost never crashes. The downside is the lack of application support from software venders. Getting hardware drivers is also a problem. If Ubuntu were well-supported I would definitely choose it over Windows.

[aysiu]

I bet you used to say Internet Explorer would never beat Netscape, too, or that nothing could be Yahoo!'s search engine (or Northern Light or Altavista).

"Never" means very little in the computer world... or any business world. No one thought Wal-Mart could topple Sears. Now, no one thinks anyone can topple Wal-Mart.

[EdThaSlayer]

Attractive topic ^_^, but the thing is that, as many other posters have said before, no one would want to upgrade their computers just to get a new shiny os, it will take quite a while before Windows Vista will be used by all the people who used XP, and others will just stick to the os they have. But there is still hope! Some people will switch to linux!since well...they would like more stable software and such...

[aysiu]

Hell, at my place of work, it took until this year (five years after its release) to upgrade from Windows 2000 to Windows XP.

We even had some workstations running Windows 98 last year.

[EdThaSlayer]

Hell, at my place of work, it took until this year (five years after its release) to upgrade from Windows 2000 to Windows XP.

We even had some workstations running Windows 98 last year.

So that means that it probably would take the Microsoft company 10 years to finally get everyone running Windows Vista...i wonder if this will be their last operating system.

[Foudre]

sad to say but you are wrong, the average user won't know it sucks so bad or understnad the compliants, if they see the shiny red ball, they think its new its shiny its better, the smarter users know better, but not the average, of course alot of the average users don't want to pay 300 -500 dollars on a new os either, and will use what comes with the system

[Foudre]

wtf mate, i hit reply with qoute oh well, who ever said that people won't want it for its shininess