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darkghost
October 19th, 2006, 03:32 PM
Ok, so here is the question...

My girlfriend is totally computer illiterate. I mean....she never used one...
Never...not even in the shop where she works...
Now after some months with me she's thinking about purchasing one (ssst it's a secret I'm going to offer her for christmas... :D)

The question is : I was thinking to a MacBook, because mac doesnt' get viruses + it's easy to use for a total computer illiterate, then I'll install ubuntu on it...

I accept any kind of suggestion :-D
Thanks

My Name
October 19th, 2006, 04:23 PM
If she never uses computers than don't let her see ANY other OS. Buy a reasonably good laptop with no OS on it, stick ubuntu on it, and she'll be happy as a pig in ****.

I'd love to have been dropped into the world of computers with a linux PC...

ATAQ
October 19th, 2006, 04:27 PM
Ya exactly as My Name said!!
Well I think mac books are more expensive so just buy a Laptop from say System76 with Ubuntu Pre-installed.

Before you give it to her make sure you set up all the apps she'll need at a simple click. because she'll just get sick of it if she has to install stuff or anything cos it aint easy for a noob !

fuscia
October 19th, 2006, 04:36 PM
all i had to do with my system76 laptop was create a new user. it's drunken child simple.

glug101
October 19th, 2006, 04:41 PM
That sounds very nice of you. I recently gave my wife a computer... put together from items I found in the trash;)

If you want the main operating system to be Ubuntu, I would recommend a PC over a Mac. Macintosh computers have great hardware, and OS X is about 5 years ahead of Windows, but it is harder to get Ubuntu to work well on a Mac than it is on a PC.

For compatible PCs, my personal choice would be one of the nice Panasonic Toughbook laptops, or an Itronix laptop available on Ebay (Sorry, I don't know if they are as plentiful in the Eourpean market). These laptops are strong and will survive most of the drops, jars, and 'oops' moments that will happen with laptops.

Hope any of this helps:)

Hmarroqu
October 19th, 2006, 04:41 PM
Word! dont buy a Mac get a preinstalled ubuntu LT..I would have loved to know i could have done that before i spent the extra hudred dollars on Crapo$oft Window$:mad:

Make sure its set up to do fun stuff to like Mp3 and DVD playback,,unless preinstalled ubuntu tops come super ready....:-k

ixus_123
October 19th, 2006, 05:33 PM
I'd get the macbook - I think osX is the most user friendly operating system going at the moment - not to mention the macbooks look classy.

It also comes bundled with some great software like the iLife suite & I believe they now have some good writing / presentation software.

If she ever needs Windows it can run it or she could also run Ubuntu on it further down the line

darkghost
October 19th, 2006, 06:07 PM
Ehi thanks for the replies!

I was thinking about a plain laptop with ubuntu on it, but...
Ok I can set it up to play DVDs, MP3s, Flashplayer9beta etc, etc. Set up a gmail account for her and so on to give her a perfectly easy and ready to use machine...but....
Let's suppose she begins having troubles like...my brother bought a printer and I cant use it... my nokia cant get connected to the pc... and so on...

So I thought that with a macbook I could catch three pigeons with one pc (Don't quote me on this :D ) , having MacOS as first impact (safe and super easy, plus I know MacOsX so I can help her). She needs win for any reason in the world ? Parallels or Bootcamp.
After some months, when she get used to a computer connected to the internet (she needs this too...) I can install Ubuntu and gently "convert" her... No need for Photoshop dear...there is the Gimp...

Uhm....I have to think about this and how to make her wait until Christmas...

chaosgeisterchen
October 19th, 2006, 06:09 PM
Once she knows Mac OS she probably does not want to move away from it so I suggest some System76 box.

darkghost
October 19th, 2006, 06:13 PM
That sounds very nice of you. I recently gave my wife a computer... put together from items I found in the trash;)



Eheheh I've been tempted with 4 pcs in the house , plus the old ones, spare parts etc... but she'd like a laptop and I can't say no to her ;) (sometimes..)

The main problem is that, knowing her, all the bros and sisters will access that pc...and I want something "dumb proof" (with all respect for her and family)...
I though MacOsX would have been a nice choice as first impact (you know, it's classy, shiny, whistles & bells :D :D ), plus it seems "strong and stable" to me... Am I wrong on this ?

mips
October 19th, 2006, 06:16 PM
Now after some months with me she's thinking about purchasing one (ssst it's a secret I'm going to offer her for christmas... :D)

The question is : I was thinking to a MacBook, because mac doesnt' get viruses + it's easy to use for a total computer illiterate, then I'll install ubuntu on it...


I would not get one for xmas, you buy girls other stuff for xmas.

I would get her a macbook as well, just for the looks. Girls seem to love them, they are almost like fashion accesories.

chaosgeisterchen
October 19th, 2006, 06:18 PM
The assortment of free software is not that big on the mac platform.

darkghost
October 19th, 2006, 06:20 PM
I would not get one for xmas, you buy girls other stuff for xmas.

I would get her a macbook as well, just for the looks. Girls seem to love them, they are almost like fashion accesories.

That's a good point !
Extra present (thought quite expensive) or wait until xmas ? I'd also have to say that I dont see myself choosing a dress for her...I'd need help from some girls...
(note: she doesnt wear many jewels, nor she seems much interested...)

chaosgeisterchen
October 19th, 2006, 06:22 PM
Hmh.. computers for Xmas is really something rather weird, but MacBooks are usally regarded as fashion items.

ixus_123
October 19th, 2006, 06:22 PM
The assortment of free software is not that big on the mac platform.
yes it is - you can pretty much much any linux software inside X11 if I'm not mistaken?

darkghost
October 19th, 2006, 06:22 PM
The assortment of free software is not that big on the mac platform.

Yes, but I don't think she'll do much more than browsing, watching videos, play mp3, using email... maybe some word...maybe...

chaosgeisterchen
October 19th, 2006, 06:23 PM
Well, you're basically right, but only to some extent, not any application will run as nicely as it runs under Linux.

@darkghost:

Well, OS X is great for that, you simply need to add a word processing application.

darkghost
October 19th, 2006, 06:28 PM
Word processing app for mac : NeoOffice (http://www.neooffice.org/)... isn't it a port of openoffice for mac ?

chaosgeisterchen
October 19th, 2006, 06:30 PM
Yeah, it seems so. It looks rather like a 1:1 port of OpenOffice.org to the Mac platform in order to use it natively. Looks great, but Version 2.0 Alpha sounds not too good, though.

spacegypsy
October 19th, 2006, 06:43 PM
Ok, so here is the question...

My girlfriend is totally computer illiterate. I mean....she never used one...
Never...not even in the shop where she works...
Now after some months with me she's thinking about purchasing one (ssst it's a secret I'm going to offer her for christmas... :D)

The question is : I was thinking to a MacBook, because mac doesnt' get viruses + it's easy to use for a total computer illiterate, then I'll install ubuntu on it...

I accept any kind of suggestion :-D
Thanks

Definitively a macbook, that I would dual boot with Ubuntu so that she can choose, make shure that Ubuntu is multimedia ready and I would also install crossover + M$ office.

mips
October 19th, 2006, 06:51 PM
Only issue with the MacBook is the 13" display. If you want a bigger display you need a MacBook Pro.

fuscia
October 19th, 2006, 06:59 PM
Only issue with the MacBook is the 13" display. If you want a bigger display you need a MacBook Pro.

now you're talking wedding present.

Rhubarb
October 19th, 2006, 07:14 PM
Am I missing something here?
All of the really computer illiterate people I know wouldn't know what a dual boot machine is, let alone what use such a setup would have.

I find that new users fall into 2 categories:
1) The paranoid
These users will not configure or change anything, not even the wallpaper.
They typically only use email, web, and maybe some word processing.
2) The click-happy
These users click the mouse around everywhere, menu's dissapear, icons appear, new programs & malware appear. (I'm sure you know the type).

I also know that computer illiterate people when faced with a dual boot setup, choose the default OS in GRUB.

I think choice here is not a good thing.
My advice is to steer clear of OSX (and m$ for that matter), stick with Ubuntu. Have it all setup nicely with a pretty background and theme for her.
You'll also need to make sure they consult yourself if / when they buy any peripherals for it.

I think it would be best for them to start with Ubuntu.
Why start them off with OSX then convert them? If you did this, they will miss iTunes and DRM.

If you want a 'nice looking' laptop, there's plenty out there that are non-apple. Compaq (HP) makes a white glossy notebook that looks like a macbook for example.

I am currently supporting more than 15 computer illiterate people, all of them have been stung quite badly by m$ (don't know any apple users).
In the last 4 months I've converted just 4 of these users to Ubuntu. I don't hear any usability problems from them, nor do they get any serious problems now. Infact I can fix up most of their problems over the phone! No need for VNC.

chaosgeisterchen
October 19th, 2006, 07:14 PM
MacBook Pro is very expensive, yeah.

mips
October 19th, 2006, 07:16 PM
now you're talking wedding present.

Lol, thats serious commitment !

glug101
October 19th, 2006, 07:24 PM
After reading the comments on this, I would disagree with the idea of gradually moving her over to Linux from MacOS. I have a couple of reasons for this:

1. Most users (especially the inexperienced ones) do not care what OS they run, they just want it to play music, edit files, play DVD's, games... etc. Changing away from an OS that works doesn't make a lot of sense to them.

2. Mac hardware is notorious for being proprietary and to have flakey support under Linux. If she is switching between Linux and MacOS she will soon find out that certain small things work better under MacOS and she will likely just use OS X.

I recommend the OS X without Linux, Mac with only Linux, or a non-mac with only Linux. Most hardware is more difficult to setup under Linux, but after a couple of initial headaches, the system just runs and runs without issue. My 65 year old mom uses Linux only right now because I installed it for her, fixed the 6 things that weren't working correctly in the first 2 weeks, and now it works perfectly. She doesn't know, or care, what the differences are between Firefox and Internet Exploder, she just wants it to work:)

just my $0.02 USD ;)

spacegypsy
October 19th, 2006, 07:29 PM
Am I missing something here?
I also know that computer illiterate people when faced with a dual boot setup, choose the default OS in GRUB.

I think choice here is not a good thing.


I agree with your point, when you want that illiterate people stays illitrate.
But is that what we want? :-k

prizrak
October 19th, 2006, 07:30 PM
I would not go for Mac hardware if you plan to run anything than OS X on it. It was designed with OS X in mind and will work best with OS X. As far as nice looking PC brands I would say go for Asus, they work well with Linux and are high quality (they are actually the ones who make Apple laptops). Actually it is rumored that the System76 laptops are Asus white box machines.

It is usually a bad idea to start someone off on one OS and try to switch them. It is usually pretty hard to make someone uninterested in computers switch over to an OS they don't already know. My advise is, either get a System76 (well you are in EU so you might have to look for a different vendor) machine with decent specs or a blank Asus (shouldn't be hard to find seen em stateside and they are much less popular here), install all the Flash, DVD and such goodness, hook up XGL/Beryl so that the interface looks cool. Just make sure it runs stable. This way she would be starting off with Ubuntu and not complaining about random stuff that doesn't work the same way.

As far as cell synching and printers and stuff like that. Just make sure that you research before you buy. Easy way to make sure the printer will work is by getting an HP they are pretty well supported. As far as smart phone synch, anything based on PalmOS will work very well (especially now that it's Linux).

prizrak
October 19th, 2006, 07:32 PM
I agree with your point, when you want that illiterate people stays illitrate.
But is that what we want? :-k

No point in forcing someone to learn something they don't need/want to learn.

cunawarit
October 19th, 2006, 07:35 PM
I'm not going to suggest an OS or a computer. But why don't you ask her what she wants to do with it and then choose the best option for her.

Also, it might be worth holding off a little till Vista comes out, then you'll be able to pick from Ubuntu, Mac OS X, and Vista. The one I wouldn't go for at all is XP, no point in a newbee going for XP when they will have to re-learn the ropes with Vista.

spacegypsy
October 19th, 2006, 07:40 PM
No point in forcing someone to learn something they don't need/want to learn.
Is giving an opportunity to something, forcing?
The choice in there hands, I will never say to someone that they have to use Linux or any other OS, but sometimes have this strong feeling that a lot of people don't know that there's an alternative.

Rhubarb
October 19th, 2006, 07:49 PM
Also, it might be worth holding off a little till Vista comes out, then you'll be able to pick from Ubuntu, Mac OS X, and Vista. The one I wouldn't go for at all is XP, no point in a newbee going for XP when they will have to re-learn the ropes with Vista.

Whoa! Hold on there, have you tried vista RC1 yet?
It's seriously ](*,) head banging material ](*,)
Not only is it non-user friendly (compared to gnome or OSX), it'll damage your wallet for the price of the OS and the beefed up hardware you'll need to run it.

I don't wish to hijack this thread, so I won't go off in a rant about OSX vs Ubuntu vs Vista.

So stick with Ubuntu, make it all look pretty, make sure it's stable and everything is working (music, dvd, flash, java, etc), setup their email and chat.
It's best if you only enable the security repositories, so only security-related updates are made.
When you go in for a visit, be sure to download all the program updates - as this is a time when something may go wrong (unlikely, but possible none the less).

Rhubarb
October 19th, 2006, 07:57 PM
Is giving an opportunity to something, forcing?
The choice in there hands, I will never say to someone that they have to use Linux or any other OS, but sometimes have this strong feeling that a lot of people don't know that there's an alternative.

Very true, if you give someone 3 choices of OS (but do not name them - as sometimes image can effect their judgement), they will usually end up choosing Linux.

And yes, it's allways best to ask them what they want to use the computer for (you can ask your girlfriend's family, so you can avoid asking your girlfriend directly so as not to ruin her xmas pressie).
Perhaps you can show them a preview of Ubuntu first.

AndyCooll
October 19th, 2006, 08:14 PM
I agree with these latest comments, dual-booting is not the way to go. And after that it depends on which other factors are important to you.

IMHO Linux can quite easily meet all the needs of most "basic" users (playing commercial games being the only exception I can think of). From my own experience, my missus uses a laptop with Ubuntu on it without any problems. She too is a basic user; Internet, e-mail, music, videos, viewing photos, word processing etc. And Linux has excellent apps for all of these.

You could even start her off on a distro aimed particularly at beginners if you so wished, e.g. Linspire, Xandros, PCLinuxOS.

A Linux OS on a laptop is the option I'd recommend. If you research thoroughly (and some options have already been suggested to you in this thread), you can quite easily find a good solid and reliable one to run your Ubuntu/Kubuntu desktop.

:cool:

darkghost
October 19th, 2006, 08:14 PM
Uhm... I read all your posts (thank you guys) and Im thinking about this.
The idea of the mac is because :
- very nice look (ok, I know, i know,,,but it's a present)
- very easy OS
- no viruses etc. (No win at all, I dont want her to catch as many viruses as she can ;) )
- She can sync her phone (does she do that ?? uhm)
CONS:
- it may become additctive and expensive if she ever needs more soft (I doubt about that...anyway)


Pros on linux:
- OpenSource, Free, super stable, fairly easy to use if I set it up for her
- No viruses, spyware etc
- She can play whatever from dvds to youtube to mp3 etc. (some italian news websites don't seem to work , maybe wrong plugin setup in firefox)

Basically, I dont know....But I think I'll steer to a linux box...
Ehi she's got a Nokia...I dont think she'll change it until it really breaks... a Treo ? Uhm....She'll never want such a complicated thing...
(But I love the 680...)

Rhubarb
October 19th, 2006, 08:50 PM
Ahh, the pros and cons.
There's a few pros that exist in OSX that also exist in Ubuntu.
Best to cross the matching ones out - only count the differences between them:

Mac:
Pros:
*Looks pretty (in your opinion, if you get something else, put a ribbon around it and tie a bow)
Cons:
*It may become addictive (OS lock-in, DRM, etc) and is expensive

Ubuntu:
Pros:
*Fast, free, opensource and super stable
Cons:
*It will become addictive (is this a pro or a con here?)
*You'll have to do a little more setting up (you'll have to set up her mac aswell you know)

I don't think she'll ever want to sync her phone.

My brain is starting to get tired here, so I can't think of any other pros and cons.

So to sum it all up, think about the differences between the pros and cons between mac and Ubuntu.

prizrak
October 19th, 2006, 09:26 PM
Is giving an opportunity to something, forcing?
The choice in there hands, I will never say to someone that they have to use Linux or any other OS, but sometimes have this strong feeling that a lot of people don't know that there's an alternative.

In this particular case I think it's important that the person in question gets a working and stable computer out of the box. Later on when she is more comfortable choices can be presented. This is why I would recommend Linux, if it works then there is no need to switch, if it doesn't it's quite easy to go to Windows.

- very nice look (ok, I know, i know,,,but it's a present)
Kind of a moot point in my opinion. There are quite a few handsome PC's around. Asus and Vaio come to mind immediately.

- She can sync her phone (does she do that ?? uhm)
Very unlikely that she would do it, since she never had a computer :) Aside from that, you know what phone she has try researching to see if it would be possible to synch. As far as I know Nokia uses a modded Linux for their OS so might be possible. If not find out what phone could do it and then "accidentally" break hers :)

Also if she doesn't like Linux, you could always put Windows on it. It's easy enough to set it up in the way that her family won't screw it up. Also try to research whether Linux would work well with the MacBook you want to get. If it will work well you can start her off with Linux and then put OS X on if she doesn't like it. Ahh screw it, get two one a PC and one a Mac, if she doesn't like the Linux PC give her the Mac :)

Peter41az
October 19th, 2006, 09:40 PM
Uhm... I read all your posts (thank you guys) and Im thinking about this.
The idea of the mac is because :
- very nice look (ok, I know, i know,,,but it's a present)
- very easy OS
- no viruses etc. (No win at all, I dont want her to catch as many viruses as she can ;) )
- She can sync her phone (does she do that ?? uhm)
CONS:
- it may become additctive and expensive if she ever needs more soft (I doubt about that...anyway)


Pros on linux:
- OpenSource, Free, super stable, fairly easy to use if I set it up for her
- No viruses, spyware etc
- She can play whatever from dvds to youtube to mp3 etc. (some italian news websites don't seem to work , maybe wrong plugin setup in firefox)

Basically, I dont know....But I think I'll steer to a linux box...
Ehi she's got a Nokia...I dont think she'll change it until it really breaks... a Treo ? Uhm....She'll never want such a complicated thing...
(But I love the 680...)

Thought id jump in here for a sec :)
Its a common myth that macs cannot get viruses. Macs are susceptible to viruses as easily as a ******* machine if any piece of microsoft software is loaded thereon. (Office 2004 is the biggest killer of macs). they allow the machine to run macros, which in turn, infect the machine on many occasions. The heart of OSX is, yes, Darxin linux. But the addition of the bill gates effect loaded opens a hole as big as the hoover dam in OSX.
To my knowledge as well, (unless someone finally figured it out)the airport card will not work under any flavor of linux. If it were me, id pick a nice PC laptop. Wish i had the money for an Alienware, thatd be cool.

RAV TUX
October 19th, 2006, 11:30 PM
I'd get the macbook - I think osX is the most user friendly operating system going at the moment - not to mention the macbooks look classy.

It also comes bundled with some great software like the iLife suite & I believe they now have some good writing / presentation software.

If she ever needs Windows it can run it or she could also run Ubuntu on it further down the line

buy a Mac and support modern day human slave-like conditions,...not very sexy and not a great idea.

buy anything but a Mac.

Rhubarb
October 20th, 2006, 12:05 AM
buy a Mac and support modern day human slave-like conditions,...not very sexy and not a great idea.
buy anything but a Mac.

A typical expression I hear on the 'net:
Yeah but macs are sexy, and they're a fashion statement.

Do you know what all this talk of macs and looks remind me of?
Vacuous truth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuous_truth)
macs are sexy, and they're a fashion statement
is the same as saying:
"All elephants inside a loaf of bread are pink."

Unfortunantly it seems IMHO many people who are susceptible to peer pressure (not your typical Linux user), those that are "image" concious, and those that have been fooled by the Vacuous Truth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuous_truth), all fall for the same now boring looking white piece of plastic.

prizrak
October 20th, 2006, 12:08 AM
Unfortunantly it seems IMHO many people who are susceptible to peer pressure (not your typical Linux user), those that are "image" concious, and those that have been fooled by the Vacuous Truth, all fall for the same now boring looking white piece of plastic.
Hey that's not true they got black ones now too. Sure the paint job on it is more expensive than on my car....