newbie advice : OS X tiger versus Ubuntu hoary ?

[ubuntu_demon]

Which OS is better suited for a newbie OS X tiger or Ubuntu hoary ?

At the moment I'm seriously thinking about gettig my dad a mac-mini.

For myself I prefer Ubuntu. But I think that maybe OS X is more suited for a newbie.

I've played with mac OS X a tiny bit and I think it suits his needs. Wednesday there's gonna be a little tiger demonstration at my university. I think I'll base the suggestion whether to choose ubuntu hoary or mac mini with OS X on this demonstration and on this poll!


the thread project father :

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=19774

the thread just curious OSX vs ubuntu :

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=6557

[Zundfolge]

Well Tiger isn't out yet, but in general OSX is significantly more "newbie friendly" then any Linux distro.

[Stormy Eyes]

Get your dad a mini Mac. That way, if something goes wrong, you can tell him to bitch at Apple. :)

[TravisNewman]

I know, I know, Ubuntu forum, I should vote Ubuntu right?

Well, I voted OSX. It IS more simple for new users.

[Ranime]

I voted OSX too... Although Ubuntu is comming a long way, it is stil far from newbie-proof ;)

Edited: typo's

[ubuntu_demon]

I just went with my father to a apple shop and ordered an imac!

[wbeck85]

I just went with my father to a apple shop and ordered an imac!
THe new imacs are so stinkin neat

[bored2k]

I just went with my father to a apple shop and ordered an imac!
Once you give Exposee a try, you'll switch to kde just for Kompose. Trust me, that Expose/Kompose is a god send. Their video conferencing application is also sweet.


http://img199.echo.cx/img199/2627/indexfeature200504121zw.th.jpg (http://img199.echo.cx/my.php?image=indexfeature200504121zw.jpg)
http://img52.echo.cx/img52/6136/snapshot93sz.th.png (http://img52.echo.cx/my.php?image=snapshot93sz.png)http://img78.echo.cx/img78/4503/snapshot50fq.th.png (http://img78.echo.cx/my.php?image=snapshot50fq.png)

[TravisNewman]

expose is a godsend
kompose is not

skippy-xd runs much better on my box ;)

[poofyhairguy]

Get your dad a mini Mac. That way, if something goes wrong, you can tell him to bitch at Apple. :)


This is the exact reason I'm trying to talk my family into MACs. I don't live at home and windowsland is getting ruff....

I voted OSX because I assumed "someone new to computers." If its "someone new to not XP" then Kubuntu might win...

[ubuntu_demon]

This is the exact reason I'm trying to talk my family into MACs. I don't live at home and windowsland is getting ruff....

I voted OSX because I assumed "someone new to computers." If its "someone new to not XP" then Kubuntu might win...
yeah

He doesn't have a computer and he has almost no computer experience. Ubuntu is easy for people used to windows. But I think OS X is easier. That's why I decided for a mac.

[KiwiNZ]

This feels like a terrible thing to say here ,but I love Macs period. OSX is a very slick OS , and the i suite is beautifully done.
As fore their hardware design , its just great , with the exception of the Icecream carton (mini) , that thing does not do much for me .

[TravisNewman]

If they weren't so darned expensive :)

[KiwiNZ]

Very true :(

Here in New Zealand a G5 2.7 Dual costs $5736 add 20" screen and its $7186. That is somewhat hard to justify a hit like that on the famiy budget

[ubuntu_demon]

Very true :(

Here in New Zealand a G5 2.7 Dual costs $5736 add 20" screen and its $7186. That is somewhat hard to justify a hit like that on the famiy budget
yeah reasonably expensive .. but I think that's worth it for newbies.

imac
2.0 ghz
512 mb ram
160 gb drive
superdrive
hp 5740 printer

was aproximately 1500 euro's (we had like 5% discount because I'm a student)

[Copter]

Well Tiger isn't out yet, but in general OSX is significantly more "newbie friendly" then any Linux distro.

totally agree here

[poofyhairguy]

This thread makes me think: whats up with nerds and Apple lately? Nowadays its hard to find a nerd that doesn't like a Mac, even though in many ways they are not very compatible with Gnu.

The hardware looks nice, but AMDs makes better chips. The software selection is nice but like XP it CAN get expensive. And their Open Office sucks (full price Office 2003 license anyone?). Yet nerds like and want the systems.

I think its OSX. Nerds love and admit that its the best desktop OS right now. Hell....even MS admits it (Vista is in many ways a Tiger copy). But I must admit- its a slight of hand. OSX kicks ass for the same reason that games kick ass on my Gamecube- they control and know what hardware is in it. Thats why I got SOOOOOO mad when Apple shifted to Intel stuff (in contracts) and people thought OSX could be unleashed .

<rant>
nothing will make me think less of your nerd credentials than the comentary "OSX will be released for generic x86 boxen within two years." That is like the dumbest statement I've seen heard those people that said "the Sega Saturn will be the most success console ever. "
</rant>

Is it OSX? Is it high quality software? Is it the love affair with Hollywood? Is it the fact that Apple has the only true "Desktop Unix?" Is it to pick up girls in coffeeshops? Is it just because its expensive? Whats the deal with nerds and Apple?

[ubuntu_demon]

This thread makes me think: whats up with nerds and Apple lately? Nowadays its hard to find a nerd that doesn't like a Mac, even though in many ways they are not very compatible with Gnu.

The hardware looks nice, but AMDs makes better chips. The software selection is nice but like XP it CAN get expensive. And their Open Office sucks (full price Office 2003 license anyone?). Yet nerds like and want the systems.

I think its OSX. Nerds love and admit that its the best desktop OS right now. Hell....even MS admits it (Vista is in many ways a Tiger copy). But I must admit- its a slight of hand. OSX kicks ass for the same reason that games kick ass on my Gamecube- they control and know what hardware is in it. Thats why I got SOOOOOO mad when Apple shifted to Intel stuff (in contracts) and people thought OSX could be unleashed .

<rant>
nothing will make me think less of your nerd credentials than the comentary "OSX will be released for generic x86 boxen within two years." That is like the dumbest statement I've seen heard those people that said "the Sega Saturn will be the most success console ever. "
</rant>

Is it OSX? Is it high quality software? Is it the love affair with Hollywood? Is it the fact that Apple has the only true "Desktop Unix?" Is it to pick up girls in coffeeshops? Is it just because its expensive? Whats the deal with nerds and Apple?
some friends of mine who have experience with windows have more problems with Ubuntu than my dad(who's computer illiterate) with OS X. It's just a matter of being practical. Let's hope Ubuntu will become even more user friendly than OS X in bit of time.

[poofyhairguy]

some friends of mine who have experience with windows have more problems with Ubuntu than my dad(who's computer illiterate) with OS X. It's just a matter of being practical. Let's hope Ubuntu will become even more user friendly than OS X in bit of time.

Hmm..Ok I can see that for most people. But nerds? User friendly is not always our top priority. I don't think its just the user friendliness. I could be wrong.

[ubuntu_demon]

Hmm..Ok I can see that for most people. But nerds? User friendly is not always our top priority. I don't think its just the user friendliness. I could be wrong.
nerds should use an opensource OS : Ubuntu,Debian or bsd :-D

[theturner]

I voted for Mac OS X because Linux doesn't work with the wireless chips on macs, and AFAIK there's no 3D acceleration with X on the Mac Mini and Bluetooth is untested.

[ubuntu_demon]

I posted this also in this thread : http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=51873

Being a nerd it is sometimes hard for me to put myself into the perspective of a green user/average desktop user. Articles like these are very informative.

When average users/green users come to me for advice this is what I have learned :

tell them that there are alternatives to windows which are not as vulnarable to spyware and virusses

-if they insist on running windows I tell them to use open source software for example www.opencd.org and urge them to use firefox + hitmanpro + avast or avg. Also teach them to be paranoid.
-if they need a new machine I recommend a mac.
-if they already have a computer and not willing to buy a mac I recommend Ubuntu or Linspire (not tried that one yet but I think it's better suited for users who don't want to use ubuntuguide / ubuntuforums / wiki to learn how to do things)
-if they already have a computer and they want to learn I recommend Ubuntu

To get even better usability linux needs game manufacturers and hardware manufacturers to cooperate. They will do this when the linux market share is high enough. The way to higher market share is only a matter of time :
1) education (being worked on see for example edubuntu.org)
2) corporations to use linux desktops (this is starting to happen)

link about usability :
http://ww.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=9021

links about improvements that would be nice for linux :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=11257
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=9137
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=27561

opensource links :
http://www.go-opensource.org
http://www.theopencd.org

windows vs linux :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=41400

ubuntu commerical :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=41771

breezy (next version of ubuntu) goals :
http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals

[autocrosser]

I agree with Ubuntu_deamon--we need to actively support Linux in every way possible--If you buy a device & it won't work with Linux--contact the manufacture & tell them that you are returning the unit BECAUSE it won't work with linux--Contact software developers with the same info--

WE need to tell the people that supply hardware/software that there is a good reason to support Linux. Be proactive & make your voice heard!!!! \\:D/

[aysiu]

-if they already have a computer and not willing to buy a mac I recommend Ubuntu or Linspire (not tried that one yet but I think it's better suited for users who don't want to use ubuntuguide / ubuntuforums / wiki to learn how to do things) I've tried Linspire 5.0, and I think it's perfect for people who complain that Linux needs to be more like Windows. Unfortunately, it's almost too much like Windows because it has you run as root by default, so you may want to encourage them to set up a regular user.

[ubuntu_demon]

I've tried Linspire 5.0, and I think it's perfect for people who complain that Linux needs to be more like Windows. Unfortunately, it's almost too much like Windows because it has you run as root by default, so you may want to encourage them to set up a regular user.
I have never worked with linspire but since it's build on debian I assume it's pretty easy to do right ?

Where I live (in holland) linspire is not an option because there isn't a dutch language version yet. But I can imagine that as soon as there will be a dutch Linspire version I would recommend it to some users who think Ubuntu is too hard and who don't want to buy a mac. Ofcourse I would encourage them to use regular accounts (instead of root accounts).

[aysiu]

I have never worked with linspire but since it's build on debian I assume it's pretty easy to do right ? I don't know. They did something weird so that I can't get apt-get Synaptic to work properly. They want you to pay for their CNR (click-n-run) installer service (it's a yearly subscription fee).

[benplaut]

bah... forget Linspire... the OS that keeps reaching for your wallet

Xandros all the way! woo! :grin:

[ubuntu_demon]

I don't know. They did something weird so that I can't get apt-get Synaptic to work properly. They want you to pay for their CNR (click-n-run) installer service (it's a yearly subscription fee).
not being able to run Synaptic at all is very lame.

Maybe Xandros does better on that one ? (I don't think there's a dutch version of that also)

[ubuntu_demon]

Tried Xandros, and didn't like it much. It is very pretty though! Nice and clean, other distros should make their gui as nice. Easy install.

Using pure Debian now, and it's great, even if it is a little bit tricky to install, although it's easier now than a few years ago. Everything just works.

Now I dual boot Debian and Ubuntu. Tough choices. ;-)
Ubuntu (and especially debian) isn't as easy as OS X yet. But I think Ubuntu is more suitable (if configured and installed by a nerd) than windows if they don't mind being able to play less games and if they don't mind learning something new.

[ubuntu_demon]

This is probably the deciding factor for the majority of people. Sadly...
just have a bit of patience and help spreading the word :)

[Brunellus]

This is probably the deciding factor for the majority of people. Sadly...

More the latter than the former. I would also say that there isn't (yet) a critical mass of desktop linux users out there that could ease the transition to gnu/linux. Potential new users don't have anyone to turn to--all their 'techie' friends run windows.

That'll change, hopefully.

[aysiu]

I just found out today that someone at my workplace uses Gentoo. She emailed me randomly, and I've never even met her. That makes four people I know... though, I guess since we haven't met, it's technically three.