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View Full Version : Enlightenment is about to get more popular than Gnome and KDE combined



NoTiG
October 17th, 2006, 02:53 AM
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=16197
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/delivery.shtml

And linux desktop is about to double in marketshare.

This is big!!

ciscosurfer
October 17th, 2006, 08:33 AM
I seriouly doubt this (the title of your post.)

EDIT: Ok, many people will buy PS3 (or will they ;)) and be exposed to E17, but that doesn't mean much for die-hard linux fans. E17 has been soooo, well, bad up until this point (and I don't think it's really all that good now!)

woedend
October 17th, 2006, 08:36 AM
well...
this assumes people actually buy the beast. I have nothing against sony, but this price is outrageous. Not that I have time for games much these days anyways. I'm sure it will succeed though..erg.
I hope, if nothing else, money funnels into development. Rasterman really knows his stuff....
i'm assuming he's still the guy? Ive been out of the loop for a while.

Kateikyoushi
October 17th, 2006, 09:34 AM
Will people know they are actually using linux ?
It is good because hopefully it funds the development but in my opinion most people will think it is just an interface like the dvd players menu.

fuscia
October 17th, 2006, 10:21 AM
and the dragon will soon be replaced by the far more efficient windmill. (ever try to grind corn with your tail? lol!)

jc87
October 17th, 2006, 02:38 PM
There is something i still don't understand about the news, is Yellow dog receiving any kind of support from Sony (money, documentation, hardware for testing, etc..) to make sure that it will run at PS3, or is just saying that is going to run and period!

Also, i´m still curious about the implementation of the "standart desktop" linux that will come with PS3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_3#Interface_and_operating_system), since Sony didn´t annouced yet just how it is going to work.

ComplexNumber
October 17th, 2006, 02:48 PM
I seriouly doubt this (the title of your post.)yeah, i seriously doubt it too. its not going to happen. whilst the ps3 is surely to be well advertised, i very much doubt that the fact that it is running on enlightenment wil be similarly well known. to about 99% of ps3 owners, it will be just "the interface on the ps3". and i vdoubt that it will make people suddenly want to leapfrog into using linux either.

wishyjr
October 17th, 2006, 02:51 PM
i think its pretty cool. I hoped to see something like this happen.

Polygon
October 17th, 2006, 03:01 PM
it wont become more popular then gnome and kde

it wont double linux's markeshare

all it will do is appear on a bazillion ps3s and be used by millions of gamers who wont know its linux and wont care either way. =/

Shin_Gouki2501
October 17th, 2006, 03:05 PM
the answer to all these questions is easy isn't it? Its:
ubuntu for PS3 :D
With PS3 There will be a stable Hardware for about 6 or more years. So lets put there Linux on this box and show the world what Linux is capable of, especially the Linux Desktop!
wbr Shin Gouki

aysiu
October 17th, 2006, 04:24 PM
Will people know they are actually using linux ? TiVo users don't.

NoTiG
October 17th, 2006, 04:44 PM
You guys are all so pessimistic!....

Whats the point in having enlightenment... a window manager, Unless you are planning to manage windows? If it was such a stripped down interface as to be tivo-ish, there would be no need to manage windows.

What's the point in managing windows, unless it was functional enough to be actually used as a desktop?

If sony is smart they will not handi cap it and let it be as powerful as if it was a computer as well.

Ps. as for not many people buying PS3's.... thats a myth. Just look at how fast the pre-orders sold out for it... like 2 hours. which is a world record or something. The only thing bad i've read about it so far is the controller.

Minyaliel
October 17th, 2006, 05:03 PM
Enlightenment is an excellent wm/ de, though. I use it every day. It's _very_ pretty, fast and does a lot of things that neither KDE nor Gnome can do, like animated wallpapers. But the eyecandy is just a very nice add- on; it's the keyboard shortcuts that are the highlight of E17, makes working a lot more efficient :) I'm in love...

ComplexNumber
October 17th, 2006, 05:05 PM
like animated wallpapers.yeah, but seriously now.....that feature must be useful for all of about 5 minutes until the novelty has worn off. i mean, someone who wants to get some work done is not going to appreciate something like in the background. after bout 5 minutes, it becomes an annoying distraction.
the same goes for most other things in enlightenment. its eye candy for the sake of it.

Shin_Gouki2501
October 17th, 2006, 05:20 PM
Seems nobody thinks thats a good idea to put ubuntu on PS3?
wbr Shin Gouki

Minyaliel
October 17th, 2006, 05:45 PM
yeah, but seriously now.....that feature must be useful for all of about 5 minutes until the novelty has worn off. i mean, someone who wants to get some work done is not going to appreciate something like in the background. after bout 5 minutes, it becomes an annoying distraction.
the same goes for most other things in enlightenment. its eye candy for the sake of it.

I don't think it's distracting, although it's a matter of taste. When I work on something I don't see the wallpaper anyway. And it's not like the animations are *huge*, my desktop randomly sparkles with stars on a night sky :) which I think is rather relaxing to watch, actually.

chaosgeisterchen
October 17th, 2006, 06:54 PM
Hmh.. Enlightenment is not a bit as complete as KDE.. it's a window manager plus some applications but no complete solution.

argie
October 17th, 2006, 07:38 PM
How will it double marketshare? I didn't know everything was included in marketshare.

I'm sure Linux would get more than a miserable 3% if more than just desktops + laptops were counted!

Erik Trybom
October 17th, 2006, 07:46 PM
You guys are all so pessimistic!....

If sony is smart...

Unfortunately, we're talking about the company that installed root kits on their customers' machines, insisted they didn't do anything wrong, and never once apologized. They are also infamous for pushing their own formats (their first mp3 players didn't even play mp3 files) and using heavy DRM enforcement.

Perhaps this time they'll get it right, but don't count on it.

dca
October 17th, 2006, 07:48 PM
Seems nobody thinks thats a good idea to put ubuntu on PS3?
wbr Shin Gouki

Would Canonical really move all the developers away from finishing 6.10 to work on a Linux derivative to run a toaster? Who knows, I guess if there's money in it...

dca
October 17th, 2006, 07:49 PM
Unfortunately, we're talking about the company that installed root kits on their customers' machines, insisted they didn't do anything wrong, and never once apologized. They are also infamous for pushing their own formats (their first mp3 players didn't even play mp3 files) and using heavy DRM enforcement.

Perhaps this time they'll get it right, but don't count on it.


HAHA, hey right, like "Blu Ray"????

.t.
October 17th, 2006, 09:05 PM
Where exactly did it say on either of those pages that the PS3 would be shipping with this distro? It just said the disto would be available for the PS3.

graabein
October 17th, 2006, 09:24 PM
Enlightenment is an excellent wm/ de, though. I use it every day. It's _very_ pretty, fast and does a lot of things that neither KDE nor Gnome can do, like animated wallpapers. But the eyecandy is just a very nice add- on; it's the keyboard shortcuts that are the highlight of E17, makes working a lot more efficient :) I'm in love...

Let's see a screenie of your desktop then! I've only tried e-live for a limited time and I wasn't sold on that first short session. Maybe I'll take it for another spin when E17 is more stable.



To stay on topic (for a change) I think it's interesting news and I hope this will expose GNU/Linux for alot of new people!

bastiegast
October 17th, 2006, 09:30 PM
Where exactly did it say on either of those pages that the PS3 would be shipping with this distro? It just said the disto would be available for the PS3.

Thats just what I wanted to say, I read this (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/10/17/terrasoft_linux_ps3/) today and it just said Sony permits yellow dog linux to release a PS3 version of its distribution.
Yellow Dog Linux version 5.0 is being developed with the permission of Sony
Theres no mention that it will actually be included neither is there in the article on OSnews.

chaosgeisterchen
October 17th, 2006, 10:13 PM
Sony is not very keen on the ideal of freedom...

Brunellus
October 17th, 2006, 10:15 PM
Free OS, proprietary bootloader, I'm betting.

Nothing to see here.

chaosgeisterchen
October 17th, 2006, 10:20 PM
Free OS, locked down at any rate.


Nothing to see here.

banjobacon
October 17th, 2006, 10:35 PM
Where exactly did it say on either of those pages that the PS3 would be shipping with this distro? It just said the disto would be available for the PS3.
Exactly. PS3 will not be shipping with Yellow Dog and/or Enlightenment. This will affect nothing.

BuffaloX
October 17th, 2006, 11:00 PM
There is something i still don't understand about the news, is Yellow dog receiving any kind of support from Sony (money, documentation, hardware for testing, etc..) to make sure that it will run at PS3, or is just saying that is going to run and period!


I read somewhere that yellow dog worked with both Sony and IBM, and found this much more fruitful than (not) working with than Apple.
I also read that yellow dog should deliver the software to connect 3000 Playstation 3, so I guess they are making some money already.

Maybe this could be a major deal for Linux.
It's not so much for desktops, as it is for clusters, but making a desktop solution for PS3 too, could be a big push for both PS3 and Linux.
I think Sony is partly motivated by tax laws, being easier on computers than consoles in some countries. So Sony want PS3 to be recognized ad a real computer.

hanzomon4
October 17th, 2006, 11:07 PM
My only complaint with e17 is the file manager, it was really buggy.

BWF89
October 17th, 2006, 11:13 PM
If they put an uncrippled Linux on the PS3 it will increase Linux's marketshare quite alot. If they release Linux for the PS3 than the hacker/modder community will start to make homebrew games and applications people can use on their PS3, or take existing applications for Linux and make them better. The same apps/games people will use to play on their PS3's will also work on Linux installed on a PC. And as the software for Linux on the PC becomes better and better more people who didn't before will start to use it.

NoTiG
October 18th, 2006, 12:43 AM
it looks like it will be rather uncrippled:

http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/2006-October/020714.html

Under basic agreement with SCEI, Terra Soft was granted a unique opportunity
to develop and bring to market a complete Linux OS for the Sony PLAYSTATION
3. In development of Yellow Dog Linux v5.0, Terra Soft integrated and
enhanced code from Barcelona Supercomputing Center, Sony Group, and Fedora in
order to offer the following:
- kernel 2.6.16
- gcc 3.4.4 and glibc 2.4
- Cell SDK 1.1
- OpenOffice.org 2.0.2
- FireFox 1.5.0 and Thunderbird 1.5.0
- Nautilus 2.1.4
... and a suite of Personal Accessories, Development Tools; Sound & Video,
Internet, and Networking applications.

spockrock
October 18th, 2006, 01:00 AM
yeah I dont see where it says sony is going to ship yellowdog with the ps3. Anychance yellow dog will have the ability to play blueray movies????? probably not...

Brunellus
October 18th, 2006, 05:00 AM
it looks like it will be rather uncrippled:

http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/2006-October/020714.html

Under basic agreement with SCEI, Terra Soft was granted a unique opportunity
to develop and bring to market a complete Linux OS for the Sony PLAYSTATION
3. In development of Yellow Dog Linux v5.0, Terra Soft integrated and
enhanced code from Barcelona Supercomputing Center, Sony Group, and Fedora in
order to offer the following:
- kernel 2.6.16
- gcc 3.4.4 and glibc 2.4
- Cell SDK 1.1
- OpenOffice.org 2.0.2
- FireFox 1.5.0 and Thunderbird 1.5.0
- Nautilus 2.1.4
... and a suite of Personal Accessories, Development Tools; Sound & Video,
Internet, and Networking applications.
'granted'?

What on earth does that mean? This is just a repeat of the pS2, which, yes, can run a Linux kernel, but only under certain, sony-approved conditions.

NoTiG
October 18th, 2006, 09:14 PM
'granted'?

What on earth does that mean? This is just a repeat of the pS2, which, yes, can run a Linux kernel, but only under certain, sony-approved conditions.

I cant say as to exactly what you mean because i Didnt have the ps2.... but here is some more information :

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/739/739688p1.html


This news makes Sony's announcement of Linux support via the console 100% official and means that users will essentially be able to turn their gaming system into a fully-functioning computer, replete with whatever applications they feel like installing, be it for entertainment or business.

BuffaloX
October 18th, 2006, 10:20 PM
'granted'?

What on earth does that mean? This is just a repeat of the pS2, which, yes, can run a Linux kernel, but only under certain, sony-approved conditions.

This is not a repeat of PS2 situation, for several reasons.
Sony will profit from Linux getting popular. They too want independance from Microsoft domination. ( remember Sony is a major hardware vendor ).
This may be Sonys best bet at hurting Microsoft.
PS3 being a computer and not a games console saves taxes, and improves Sonys competitive position in the console market.
Yellow dog has expressed that they work well with Sony.

It's one more Linux thing, that may help get more developers and users.
Also it may help Linux get into a major platform other than x86, giving us all a little more freedom. Let's face it, x86 processors are not very good.

All this said, I'm not a fan of Sony or IBM, But helping Linux, helps their image imo.

Linux is not only a means to freedom in software, it is also a means to freedom in hardware.

Brunellus
October 18th, 2006, 10:28 PM
This is not a repeat of PS2 situation, for several reasons.
Sony will profit from Linux getting popular. They too want independance from Microsoft domination. ( remember Sony is a major hardware vendor ).
This may be Sonys best bet at hurting Microsoft.
PS3 being a computer and not a games console saves taxes, and improves Sonys competitive position in the console market.
Yellow dog has expressed that they work well with Sony.

It's one more Linux thing, that may help get more developers and users.
Also it may help Linux get into a major platform other than x86, giving us all a little more freedom. Let's face it, x86 processors are not very good.

All this said, I'm not a fan of Sony or IBM, But helping Linux, helps their image imo.

Linux is not only a means to freedom in software, it is also a means to freedom in hardware.
I'll believe it when I see it. Sony has been a proponent of linux only insofar as it brings their software development costs down. They have been rather less than bullish about it when it comes to the wide-open, general-purpose utility that a Linux OS would offer users.

Again, it doesn't matter to me if the whole OS is free but only a single vendor can use the bootloader (which I understnad was the situation with the PS2).

NoTiG
October 18th, 2006, 11:32 PM
I hope ps3 quashes xbox. The preorders sold pretty fast. What im wondering though is will a keyboard come or be optional with the ps3......... or will there be a USB port on it or something to plug one in??

BuffaloX
October 19th, 2006, 06:45 AM
I hope ps3 quashes xbox. The preorders sold pretty fast. What im wondering though is will a keyboard come or be optional with the ps3......... or will there be a USB port on it or something to plug one in??

It will have option for both mouse an keyboard, using standard USB connection.

BuffaloX
October 19th, 2006, 03:56 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. Sony has been a proponent of linux only insofar as it brings their software development costs down. They have been rather less than bullish about it when it comes to the wide-open, general-purpose utility that a Linux OS would offer users.

Again, it doesn't matter to me if the whole OS is free but only a single vendor can use the bootloader (which I understnad was the situation with the PS2).

I fully understand you not trusting Sony too much.
But it seems they have taking it a couple of steps further this time.
Most of their SDK is also opensource, based in part on GNU utilities.

Brunellus
October 19th, 2006, 04:00 PM
I fully understand you not trusting Sony too much.
But it seems they have taking it a couple of steps further this time.
Most of their SDK is also opensource, based in part on GNU utilities.
The SDK, indeed the whole OPERATING SYSTEM might be Free, but the keys to the kingdom are the bootloader, and that remains safely locked away by Sony.

BuffaloX
October 19th, 2006, 04:09 PM
The SDK, indeed the whole OPERATING SYSTEM might be Free, but the keys to the kingdom are the bootloader, and that remains safely locked away by Sony.

I don't know about the bootloader, I never had a games console, and I haven't seen any commentaries on that yet.
But wouldn't that be somewhat similar to PCs having a BIOS?
If that's the case, I'm not sure it's so important.
But I may be wrong here, since I'm not familiar with the PS3 bootprocess.

BigWillyT
October 19th, 2006, 04:21 PM
yeah, i seriously doubt it too. its not going to happen. whilst the ps3 is surely to be well advertised, i very much doubt that the fact that it is running on enlightenment wil be similarly well known. to about 99% of ps3 owners, it will be just "the interface on the ps3". and i vdoubt that it will make people suddenly want to leapfrog into using linux either.

Not to mention the fact that most of your "die-hard" console people use the computer for nothing more than surfing and e-mail. Majority of their time is spent playing games on their console of choice so I too highly doubt that this is going to create some kind of Linux "phenomenon" amongst console players. I used to own an Xbox and I just felt more comfortable with a keyboard and mouse in my hand than I did a console controller. Sold the Xbox about 6 months after I got it and haven't owned a console since. :)

Feanor
October 19th, 2006, 05:20 PM
As an Enlightenment user I must say: e17 is far far far far to be a good replacement of kde for example... But this depends on what you want to do with the environment. For a general purpose system, like an ordinary pc, where you wanna run games read emails, browsing the web, use graphical editors and 3D modeller, connect devices via bluetooth, all in an integrated ambient, e17 is not the best choice at the moment. KDE has a very high level of integration with the apps. But in case of a consolle is the eyecandy that rules and e17 rules. I guess what will the KDE4 eyecandy, but I think it's too much heavy for a console system. I don't know well the field, these are only thoughts...

:neutral:

cogsprocket
October 19th, 2006, 05:33 PM
I don't really see how this helps enlightenment or Linux. Enlightenment maybe but not enough to increase it's popularity anymore than the average Linux user who stumbles upon it on a daily basis. This is more novelty than anything. I highly doubt that you'll see many people who are not already currently Linux users putting this on their PS3.

NoTiG
October 19th, 2006, 11:02 PM
Here is another article:

http://arstechnica.com/articles/columns/linux/linux-20061018.ars


in light of the PS3's poor reception from the press and the gaming community, one immediately wonders why Terra Soft would work with Sony rather than Microsoft or Nintendo. Staats says that the PS3 "looks and feels like a real computer," and explains that "it is important to understand that the Xbox and Nintendo are not designed to be personal computers, the PS3 is."


"Personally, I plan to remove my home DVD and CD decks and use instead a PS3 attached with my home theater for DVD, CD, MP3, and home computer—attached to a 5:1 14 speaker system with HD LCD. Elegant, simple, and powerful."


The capacity of the PS3's powerful hardware to serve as a fully-functional Linux PC is a point that Staats also emphasizes when responding to critics that point out the limitations of Linux on the PS2.

Brunellus
October 20th, 2006, 01:53 AM
the unanswered question is why only one vendor, why only one distribution? If it's as open as they say, then we should be seeing PSbuntu, PSlack, PFedora and so forth.