Automatix vs EasyUbuntu vs Better Alternative

[Naralas]

I have already used EasyUbuntu on my computer a few times. If I let it try install any video card drivers, or flash, then I am basically guarenteeing that I cannot EVER get those aspects of my computer to work. I have had to reinstall everytime I accidently let it do those things. But it does give you a choice, and it does get alot of codecs working and some familiar fonts added. So id rate it about a 3 out of 5.

Automatix2, which I am running right now simply out of curiosity has already made it so that it cannot POSSIBLY get more than a 3 on my rating because of all the command line crap I had to do to get it. What in the world is this crap? If I wanted to go through there install process I might aswell just configure ubuntu on my own. This process DOES NOT HELP NEW USERS. I am the kind of Linux user who tries to improve the community mostly by spreading Linux, if this is what I have to work with, then the ray of sunshine I saw with Ubuntu has died :(
I am not letting it install Flash because I just fixed the flash I installed myself so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and assume it would do a better job than me.
For a user like myself I easily give Automatix2 a 5 out of 5.
For everyone else, lets say a 2? a 1?

So anyone think there should be a new solution? Or a simpler download for Automatix? Why not just a .deb package from the site?

Anyway, I seem to do alot of complaining around here. But I like to think of it as bringing problems into the light lol :-p

[RussianVodka]

What do you mean? You open up the terminal, and copy+paste what they tell you. You only have to do that once, then it's just point & click.

Never had any trouble with automatix.

[motstudios]

well the only issue with automatix2 i see is its lack of software choices and the fact that its just plain slow on this pc (older pc).

automatix seems pretty good but also lacks some good software and i had issues with it.

im making a bash script to install all the most requested and most needed progs on ubuntu, but its still in testing phases. it would install things like java, java plugin for firefox, flash for firefox, needed dev tools so u can compile source and some other goodies all in one throw. it also offers the option to install lexmark z25 printer driver.

IF and only if you wanna TEST it, u can check it out here:
http://mark.22kb.com/dl/ubuntu/ubuntu-install-script.sh

NOTE though that this has only been tested by me but worked fine. however i wont release it officially till i know for sure it works and works exactly like its supposed to.

To run the script:

chmod u+x ubuntu-install-script.sh
sudo ./ubuntu-install-script.sh
then answer the questions and agree with the java and flash license and ur done.

[Anonii]

well the only issue with automatix2 i see is its lack of software choices and the fact that its just plain slow on this pc (older pc).

automatix seems pretty good but also lacks some good software and i had issues with it.

im making a bash script to install all the most requested and most needed progs on ubuntu, but its still in testing phases. it would install things like java, java plugin for firefox, flash for firefox, needed dev tools so u can compile source and some other goodies all in one throw. it also offers the option to install lexmark z25 printer driver.

IF and only if you wanna TEST it, u can check it out here:
http://mark.22kb.com/dl/ubuntu/ubuntu-install-script.sh

NOTE though that this has only been tested by me but worked fine. however i wont release it officially till i know for sure it works and works exactly like its supposed to.
Say hello to "Error 404" :]

Upload it somewhere else.

To the thread starter: Death Note, wins.

[motstudios]

fixed

[Anonii]

fixed
I didnt mean the instructions -_-
I meant this:
http://mark.22kb.com/dl/ubuntu/ubuntu-install-script.sh

[motstudios]

opps. i think i need to go to bed lol... i uploaded the script to the wrong directory lmao

u can view the dl/ubuntu/ directory to see the script and a couple deb packages for xmms and plugins

[Naralas]

the problem still exists that your asking n00b users to use the console, they will run from you !!!

Sadness :(
I wanna write my own aswell. Just a GUI that will run a few simple command line goodies like install flash and fix its problems, and install most media types. It would actually be NICE to have dozens of options for this kind of thing available because then someday people can respond by giving people the appropriate one. If they are new, give them something simple that works, if they are advanced, give them something that challenges that, and if they are l33t, well then WTF are they having trouble playing MP3s?!
(Note: thas is the less used WHY the %$#@ rather than WHAT ;) )

[Polygon]

no they dont

i just installed automatix2 on my friends computer, all i had to do was go to synaptic, search for automatix, select automatix2, click apply, let it install and then go to it in the ubuntu menu and let it do its stuff

recap: automatix is in the repositories, all you need to do is tell new users to search for it in synaptic, install it and then run it from the menu.

and if new users are scared of using the command line at all, even if its just to copy/paste commands, maybe they shouldnt be using linux...

[bobbybobington]

if new users are scared of using the command line at all, even if its just to copy/paste commands, maybe they shouldnt be using linux...

while cli is powerful, the purpose of ubuntu is "linux for human beings" or in other words as much user friendliness as possible. It worries me that the ubuntu community may become compacent forgeting that most users need gui, and start living in their own bubble. I understand powerusers dont want a "dumbed down" os, remember that the command line is always in the background. It is essential that we try to help "joe user" as much as possible in terms of gui. If you don't like it, I'm sure you'll have no problem configuring it. We don't want to turn people away from an awesome os just because they're afraid of cli, heck even i'm kinda afraid of it. CLI is just too powerful for alot of people.

[Peepsalot]

What about this:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=257116&page=4&highlight=automatix

[BLTicklemonster]

Yeah, afterbirth is a lot cleaner looking. Can't wait to see where he goes with it.

[tseliot]

Automatix2, which I am running right now simply out of curiosity has already made it so that it cannot POSSIBLY get more than a 3 on my rating because of all the command line crap I had to do to get it. What in the world is this crap? If I wanted to go through there install process I might aswell just configure ubuntu on my own. This process DOES NOT HELP NEW USERS.

Actually you don't have to use the command line to install Automatix.

You can add Automatix's repository from Synaptic and press the Reload button. It will complain about the GPG key but you can ignore that error and install Automatix2 just like you would do with any other application in the repos.

[BLTicklemonster]

You can add Automatix's repository from Synaptic

by editing sources via... the command line?

I don't remember, is automatix/2 either one of them in deb form? Because Ubuntu now seems to allow you to simply click on debs to open them. Which appears the way to go for new users.

[Naralas]

while cli is powerful, the purpose of ubuntu is "linux for human beings" or in other words as much user friendliness as possible. It worries me that the ubuntu community may become compacent forgeting that most users need gui, and start living in their own bubble. I understand powerusers dont want a "dumbed down" os, remember that the command line is always in the background. It is essential that we try to help "joe user" as much as possible in terms of gui. If you don't like it, I'm sure you'll have no problem configuring it. We don't want to turn people away from an awesome os just because they're afraid of cli, heck even i'm kinda afraid of it. CLI is just too powerful for alot of people.

I thought that was a given. It's embarassing that someone had to actually say that. People who cling to the command line should go to a more complex distro. People who like it and use it when its the best option for THEMSELVES but accept that it shouldnt be the ONLY option should use Ubuntu.

Ubuntu made using Linux easier, now even the people who couldn't hack it on difficult distros are trying to sound 'l33t' by claiming commandling is the only way to go. >_< Still many sad days ahead for Linux if this keeps up, because, lets not be in denial, you can beat big corporations if your good. Being unlimitedly arrogant and simply informing everyone who dosent like the way you do things that your right and better but offering them no reasons and being (partially) wrong to begin with gets you nowhere...

[ago]

The better alternative is to have most used customization scripts available by default in GAI without any need for external scripts. Which is exactly what Ubuntu's developers are working on. See these specs:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonCustomizations
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasyCodecInstallation

Part of them will be implemented int Edgy, part in Edgy+1. They will take care of most needs. All you have to do is go to add/remove apps (that IMO should be renamed "Add-Ons") and select the appropriate option. N00b-proof enough...

Add that for many legally crippled formats/codecs you will soon see 100% legal commercial packages from fluendo and similar, available as normal Ubuntu packages via GAI.

You will need external scripts for bleeding edge stuff and/or legally unclear subjects. But there will be little need for n00b to use automatix/easyubuntu, they will be more interesting for geeks willing to experiment with new scripts...

[Shin_Gouki2501]

This is really something important.
The ubuntu community should focus quite some effort to find there a desireable solution.
It should be absolute important for ubuntu to focus on aquireing the requirements of the task : Software/Package Manager for Ubuntu

It is evident necessary to build a "Forum-wiki-platform" focused on that Issue which works way more user-adressed.
Methods which i would suggest towards requirements engineering:
1.First a brain-storming thread (this forum maybe) were users could just plain adress there needs and there own point of view what an application installer for them "means" and what' it capable of.
2.Once the Aims are set ( the amount of requiremetns must be cut to a resonable value)
Those aims should be adressed in a poll were they are confirmed(u can put here a min. number of votes to ensure the vote becomes representative )
So after 6 weeks u would have about 10-15 design goals which are accepted by "a lot" of users.
3.Now the ubuntu devs come into play, i noticed this page:
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
But this is rather dev-interest oriented.
The Overview which this pages displays, shows a very insufficent result.
Despite the fact of the "business" logic of a packet/software manager. There should be GUI Prototypes released 1 per month, so the users can adress their needs regarding input forms!I think its fairly easy to release GUI prototypes.
Thats important imo.

It "HAS" to be much more user focued "AND" integreted into "this" forums here.
There have to be an option which enables the user to express is intentions. Even by voting for his ideas thus just clicking once.
-> The necessary input to collect user opinions needs to be reduced. In that way u will collect "MUCH" more informations from the user than now(what u do then with the information is urs still u got it!)

I think if Such a Project Page is established(Installation of Software-ubuntu Software Manager )
The devs will see a lot of what they already know still they would recognize completly new aspects.
For example with the gui prototypes which enables them "MUCH" faster and efficent feedback.
Also in my opinion the users would see and realize what the softwaremanager(packet) can do and what for it is designed. The understanding of BOTH sides is absolutly necessary.
If this projects evolve(2 years may be), tools like easy ubuntu or automatix will become dispensable.
Since the ubuntu "built-in" software manager offers such flexibility, scalability and usability that theres no need for "3rd party"-support to satisfy user demands.

But u need to start and u need to think how to manange and represent ur work and interaction towards and with the users.
Because the community wants to help ubuntu :)
u just have to filter the inputs ;)

BTW: if u not think im crazy , i'll be glad to help u with ideas and lots of other stuff to make that happen.

*i pray that someone reads that and thinks about it
wbr Shin Gouki

[mostwanted]

by editing sources via... the command line?

You can add repositories from inside Synaptic, you don't have to use the command line for that. Adding an Automatix repository makes sure the app always stays the latest version.

[tseliot]

You can add repositories from inside Synaptic, you don't have to use the command line for that. Adding an Automatix repository makes sure the app always stays the latest version.

Exactly.

There is a tutorial here which explains how to do that:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=171919

[Shin_Gouki2501]

what about the other thing i wrote? Too long to read?Simply bad/stupid idea?
wbr Shin Gouki

[tseliot]

It is evident necessary to build a "Forum-wiki-platform" focused on that Issue which works way more user-adressed.
Methods which i would suggest towards requirements engineering:
1.First a brain-storming thread (this forum maybe) were users could just plain adress there needs and there own point of view what an application installer for them "means" and what' it capable of.
2.Once the Aims are set ( the amount of requiremetns must be cut to a resonable value)
Those aims should be adressed in a poll were they are confirmed(u can put here a min. number of votes to ensure the vote becomes representative )
So after 6 weeks u would have about 10-15 design goals which are accepted by "a lot" of users.
3.Now the ubuntu devs come into play, i noticed this page:
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
But this is rather dev-interest oriented.
The Overview which this pages displays, shows a very insufficent result.
Despite the fact of the "business" logic of a packet/software manager. There should be GUI Prototypes released 1 per month, so the users can adress their needs regarding input forms!I think its fairly easy to release GUI prototypes.
Thats important imo.
Why don't you write a first draft of this project on a new page on the Wiki?

Then you might start a new thread to ask for opinions

[Shin_Gouki2501]

hm i think about that, but i really think that help form some officals would be needed.
No one would care if i created a poll.

wbr Shin Gouki

[BLTicklemonster]

For new users, I love the direction in which ubuntu is headed (even for old users). But until there comes a time when a machine can catch problems in loading X and switch over to a known usable configuration so that the new users do not get stuck in a black screen at the prompt, then knowledge of the command line is a priority for anyone who will try doing things themselves in ubuntu. No matter how easily a driver can be installed, there's alllllways something that can drop you at the command line on a reboot. So folks are just going to have to know that if they want to use ubuntu, then there are a few small things they need to be aware of.

(let's hope I eat crow on this. I really want a crow pie in regards to my statements.)

[tseliot]

For new users, I love the direction in which ubuntu is headed (even for old users). But until there comes a time when a machine can catch problems in loading X and switch over to a known usable configuration so that the new users do not get stuck in a black screen at the prompt, then knowledge of the command line is a priority for anyone who will try doing things themselves in ubuntu. No matter how easily a driver can be installed, there's alllllways something that can drop you at the command line on a reboot.

That's why I wrote this spec:
https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/xserver-failover

[BLTicklemonster]

That's why I wrote this spec:
https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/xserver-failover

And that's why you are one of my all time heros, lol.

(what gets me, is that anyone would put an os out that doesn't already do this to begin with.)

[maniacmusician]

That's why I wrote this spec:
https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/xserver-failover
I think...it would be helpful, for someone to write a howto on writing specs, or just using launchpad as a whole. Most users are afraid to even go there. I personally, am not really afraid, but it's a foreign environment that i'm not really comfortable with. Is there an existing howto on this? or can someone make one? I'd be glad to proofread and polish it...(i'm good with english). But I think a good, clean walkthrough with screenshots would be lovely.

[Naralas]

The problem is automatix2 should be in the repositories by default. Or is it? Most people won't want to add it.

Oh yeah, is Symantec in Xubuntu? If it is I will make the switch permenant.

[BLTicklemonster]

The problem is automatix2 should be in the repositories by default. Or is it? Most people won't want to add it.

Oh yeah, is Symantec in Xubuntu? If it is I will make the switch permenant.

Symantec or Synaptic? Or am I getting caught up in the semantics again?

[Shin_Gouki2501]

tseliot!
the x fail-back mechanism sounds of course nice!Is there a possiblity to chat with u for a bit on IRC?ubuntu channel?
-> pm
wbr Shin Gouki

[Polygon]

i never said that GUI sucks and CLI is teh leetzor... what i meant was that if worse comes to worse, a person has to be able to go to accessories > terminal, and then right click > copy from a web forum and then ctrl+shift+v into the terminal and press enter. I know that in some tech support situations with windows that they told me to go to run > cmd and type in some command and tell them the output of it, its the same concept. The cli isnt going to go away, so it wont hurt to have people who wont ever use it regularly at least know it exists.

[Shin_Gouki2501]

nope, i disagree u have to find/create a GUI which is flexible and robust enough to do the "terminal"-tasks in a certain context.
The GUI is just another I/O mapping like CLI, it "simlpy" needs to be more flexible.
wbr Shin Gouki

[tseliot]

tseliot!
the x fail-back mechanism sounds of course nice!Is there a possiblity to chat with u for a bit on IRC?ubuntu channel?
-> pm
wbr Shin Gouki

This is the thread about my spec:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=201128

and this is the page on the Wiki (you can write your comment under "Comments")
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XserverFailover

[yman]

I think...it would be helpful, for someone to write a howto on writing specs, or just using launchpad as a whole. Most users are afraid to even go there. I personally, am not really afraid, but it's a foreign environment that i'm not really comfortable with. Is there an existing howto on this? or can someone make one? I'd be glad to proofread and polish it...(i'm good with english). But I think a good, clean walkthrough with screenshots would be lovely.
I know a good technical writer, who is also the guy who encouraged me to use linux. He is known to me as Dad. maybe he would agree to help.

[Shin_Gouki2501]

tseliot
For me that the Launchpad is the Link between devs and users.
Besides the suggestet Changes i made earlier, it would be important
IMO that the theres a Link between this wikipage and ur thread here on the forums.
Let the users express that they REALLY, REALLY want and need this feature.
I think its important for the devs to see which features are desired by the user. The devs will certainly see a lot which they expect, but also many surprises. Because not all users want just eye candy in their OS. Lots of users want stability and usability. Ur suggestion and others like those express these user needs.

It is just normal that the devs cannot implement "every" feature, but the users and devs NEED to agree on which feature is necessary to begin with.
Such a X-failback mechanism is for sure ABSOLUTLY important. Infact i would not deliver an GUI based OS without such ...security..

U think there is a way to Link a Poll from this forums directly onto the wikipage?
IMO it would be usefull the devs could use the polls to analyse the user requirements, in a VERY comfortable way because WE make the polls but they see the user needs and how many people want them.
wbr Shin Gouki

[egon spengler]

the purpose of ubuntu is "linux for human beings" or in other words as much user friendliness as possible.

I'm close to the point of wishing death on the person who coined that stupid catchphrase.

Btw though Bobby, seeing as every single distro of Linux in existence is in fact for human beings I don't really see how you extract that it means "as much user friendliness as possible"

[BLTicklemonster]

Prolly thinking outside the box again, ya think? Why so negative, Spengler?

[Shin_Gouki2501]

to put the word usability in a common context there nothing wrong(inspite its quite smart) to use the phrase:linux for human beings.
Of Course other Linux' are used also by other "humans" its just the extra needed knowledge u need is on an other level with ubuntu.
Which is a good thing because u can bring computing and Linux towards more people.
wbr Shin Gouki

[Polygon]

the thing is, the gui will never be as flexable as the CLI because the GUI just runs CLI commands with a graphical interface. But whatever, going back to my original post, automatix 2 is in the repos by default, i just installed it on a friends computer. I had to activate security backports multi and universe but otherwise it was rather painless.

[Shin_Gouki2501]

"the thing is, the gui will never be as flexable as the CLI because the GUI just runs CLI commands with a graphical interface."
:O
Believe it or not it IS possible to design a GUI which works same way and yet STILL is far more usable!
wbr Shin Gouki

[BLTicklemonster]

the thing is, the gui will never be as flexable as the CLI because the GUI just runs CLI commands with a graphical interface.

That's rather obvious, but the intent is to give people who use GUIs an alternative to Windows, so the point is rather pointless to pursue except from a "stating the obvious" point of view.

I am comfortable with the command line, but I'd rather not have to use it, therefore I welcome synaptic-like tools which make setting up my system a breeze. While I know my boss knows how to do each and everyone's job around here, he wants his job to be easier and more productive by ...oh, I don't know, maybe it was something along the lines of ... oh yeah, having it done by someone else. I know how to do command line stuff, but I find it a better use of my time if I let someone else do the legwork for me (by creating these GUIs) so I just tell it what I want done, and bingo, it's done.

That aside, the command line is the biggest stumbling block to windows users who try out ubuntu. Well, that and the fact that the developers just don't get the need for an automatic fall back to vega when X won't start. It is egg on the face of Ubuntu that anyone at any given time can be stuck at the command line if X wont' start even though it will come up using vega if dpkg-reconfigure is used. ](*,)

I'd have figured that would have been one of the first issues ever resolved by a team of developers wanting to make any OS which is supposed to be "linux for humans" instead of "linux for command line junkies". Not that you all aren't human, mind you... :)




But whatever, going back to my original post, automatix 2 is in the repos by default, i just installed it on a friends computer. I had to activate security backports multi and universe but otherwise it was rather painless.

So just enable everything in the binaries and automatix will show up? Nice. I wonder if Rebirth - I mean afterbirth will get in there, too? I think it's interface is the best one so far.