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View Full Version : Love <-> Linux <-> Hate



HiddenWolf
October 31st, 2004, 04:00 PM
Once, I really really need to make a piont here about my major problem with Linux in general.

What is great, is that there is a lot of choice, however, this makes it very hard to keep the system lean and mean.

Most of the time if you install a package, it needs another package or library. So you install 3, 4, or more packages, then figure out you don't like the program, it's interface, or it doesn't do exactly what you wanted.
Then however, if you uninstall the package, you will still have some, if not most of it's dependancies on your system.
Unless you write down the name of every package you install, there is little chance of ever getting your system as lean as it was before you installed the useless package.

The same goes for programs in general, and especially display managers like Gnome. While I believe it's gotten leaner since, I can still remember fondly my suprize when I found out that Gnome depends on the massive Mozilla suite libraries, but also packed two other browsers, another mail client, two or three irc-clients, and a broad range of other redundant packages.

While I agree browsing/mailing/printing/sound are essential for any desktop, and thus should be required, I would think that it is far better to take one good, (and small) package, in stead of depending on a massive program like Mozilla.

Isn't the best philosofy here to take one package that most acknowledge to be good, or 'good enough', say Thunderbird for mail, and allow it to be replaced by a more comprehensive suite as Mozilla-mail or Evolution?

Again, here, if I'd have to install them side by side, I'd get unhappy.
IMHO system functions should depend on libraries and small packages, or dummies, not on other packages
This would allow the system more flexibility while still allowing for a lean system..

nuopus
October 31st, 2004, 05:58 PM
Once, I really really need to make a piont here about my major problem with Linux in general.

What is great, is that there is a lot of choice, however, this makes it very hard to keep the system lean and mean.

Most of the time if you install a package, it needs another package or library. So you install 3, 4, or more packages, then figure out you don't like the program, it's interface, or it doesn't do exactly what you wanted.
Then however, if you uninstall the package, you will still have some, if not most of it's dependancies on your system.
Unless you write down the name of every package you install, there is little chance of ever getting your system as lean as it was before you installed the useless package.

The same goes for programs in general, and especially display managers like Gnome. While I believe it's gotten leaner since, I can still remember fondly my suprize when I found out that Gnome depends on the massive Mozilla suite libraries, but also packed two other browsers, another mail client, two or three irc-clients, and a broad range of other redundant packages.

While I agree browsing/mailing/printing/sound are essential for any desktop, and thus should be required, I would think that it is far better to take one good, (and small) package, in stead of depending on a massive program like Mozilla.

Isn't the best philosofy here to take one package that most acknowledge to be good, or 'good enough', say Thunderbird for mail, and allow it to be replaced by a more comprehensive suite as Mozilla-mail or Evolution?

Again, here, if I'd have to install them side by side, I'd get unhappy.
IMHO system functions should depend on libraries and small packages, or dummies, not on other packages
This would allow the system more flexibility while still allowing for a lean system..
Why don't you just install debfoster? You can run debfoster and say yes to everything at first ... what it is doing is flagging all of the packages you want to keep.

After that, install as many packages as you like! When you run debfoster again it will ask for every package and even groups the dependencies with them (so if you are removing a package it will tell you the package is keeping some dependencies and get rid of those as well).

Whatever you don't say yes to will be removed! Great way of keeping system clean.

danomatika
January 17th, 2007, 10:46 PM
Keep in mind, all of these programs usually depend on the same set of libraries. There may be 3-4 redundant apps installed, but they don't really take that much space.

I just finished switching from Windows XP and noticed quite a difference in size. Both OS's were/are setup with a C: / root partition and a separate /home partition so I don't much up myself tooooo quickly. Here's what I noticed:

Ubuntu with all the apps I need: Little over 4 GB
Windows XP with all the apps I need: at least 8-9 GB

I mean, we are talking MS Visual Studio, .NET, Adobe Premiere, etc ... with each proprietary app including redundant code in a sense the space begins to add up.

Basically, what I mean is that even with all these extra packages you are complaining about ... a Linux installation is still lean and mean. Keep in mind that with all this power it becomes really easy to get obsessed over mincromanaging your packages ... Jesus Christ, if you have to have 15 MB extra, dont worry about it.

maniacmusician
January 17th, 2007, 10:50 PM
sudo apt-get autoremove?

meng
January 17th, 2007, 10:51 PM
You could use smarter package management like aptitude to install and remove applications. aptitude will remove the orphaned dependencies for you.

speedwell68
January 17th, 2007, 11:08 PM
sudo apt-get autoremove

Worked a treat, 51mb of unused stuff removed from my system, learn something new every day, thanks dude.:mrgreen:

TBOL3
January 17th, 2007, 11:29 PM
I have an idea.

I like the graphical package list (when looking for a new package, say a game)

But I like aptitude becouse it removes the dependinseas. So I have to open the terminal. And figure out what the magic keyword is. I would much prefer to just click on install.

Pitbull11188
August 13th, 2007, 12:32 AM
You could always use


sudo apt-cache search 'program or category'

to do the same thing. ;)

ubuntu27
August 13th, 2007, 01:15 AM
I have an idea.

I like the graphical package list (when looking for a new package, say a game)

But I like aptitude becouse it removes the dependinseas. So I have to open the terminal. And figure out what the magic keyword is. I would much prefer to just click on install.


aptitude search name-of-package

starcraft.man
August 13th, 2007, 01:38 AM
Wow, this threads been doubly resurrected and it's three years old. Geez.

Oh, that's about it, nothing else to add.

init1
August 13th, 2007, 02:10 AM
Once, I really really need to make a piont here about my major problem with Linux in general. What is great, is that there is a lot of choice, however, this makes it very hard to keep the system lean and mean. Most of the time if you install a package, it needs another package or library. So you install 3, 4, or more packages, then figure out you don't like the program, it's interface, or it doesn't do exactly what you wanted. Then however, if you uninstall the package, you will still have some, if not most of it's dependancies on your system. Unless you write down the name of every package you install, there is little chance of ever getting your system as lean as it was before you installed the useless package. The same goes for programs in general, and especially display managers like Gnome. While I believe it's gotten leaner since, I can still remember fondly my suprize when I found out that Gnome depe...Don't like apt? Don't use it. Don't like Gnome? Don't use it. There are other options.

@trophy
August 13th, 2007, 03:17 PM
Why don't you just install debfoster? You can run debfoster and say yes to everything at first ... what it is doing is flagging all of the packages you want to keep.

After that, install as many packages as you like! When you run debfoster again it will ask for every package and even groups the dependencies with them (so if you are removing a package it will tell you the package is keeping some dependencies and get rid of those as well).

Whatever you don't say yes to will be removed! Great way of keeping system clean.

That sounds like a cool program, but I do find it ironic that the guy is complaining about having too many random packages installed, and the solution offered is to install another one! Anyway yeah just thought that was funny... nothing more to see here, folks. Move along.

bapoumba
August 13th, 2007, 03:28 PM
I'm closing here, the OP started this thread, hmm, in October 2004. Couple things have changed since then ;)