PDA

View Full Version : It's never too late, I want to buy an electric guitar...



RAV TUX
October 9th, 2006, 01:00 PM
Looking for advice on a good first purchase, would rather spend a bit more for quality, but not go over board.

Looking for good advice,....links and pictures appreciated.

mips
October 9th, 2006, 01:09 PM
...pictures appreciated.


Are the looks important ? I'm no musician but music for me is about sound and not looks

matthew
October 9th, 2006, 01:14 PM
Woo hoo!!!

These would be my top 4 recommendations as they are pretty consistently well made and reasonably affordable*. They are also good enough to use outside of your bedroom when you get better and want to do so. I'm sure others will chime in here as well. I can think of several other great guitars to begin on.

In order with links:
Fender Standard Telecaster (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Standard-Telecaster-Electric-Guitar?sku=516035)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/tn/4/7/4/327474.jpg

Fender Standard Stratocaster (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Standard-Stratocaster-Electric-Guitar?sku=516037)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/tn/4/8/2/327482.jpg

Epiphone Les Paul Standard (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Standard-Electric-Guitar?sku=518341)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/tn/7/1/3/393713.jpg

Epiphone G-400 SG (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-G400-SG-Electric-Guitar?sku=518291)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/tn/7/6/3/274763.jpg

*and in my experience they all play well. Make sure the shop you buy your guitar from does a "setup" for you when you buy it. That will help insure that it plays in tune up and down the neck and has a good feel in your hands. A poorly setup guitar, if made well and and undamaged, can generally be made to play quite well with a good setup. The store should do it for you at no additional cost when you buy the guitar, but you will probably need to ask.

Tomosaur
October 9th, 2006, 01:49 PM
I play a Burns Marquee (club series, original is too expensive for me) and I love it. Here's a pic of one (linked for size):
http://www.tjmusicaz.com/images/guitars/ZE-136.JPG

It has a 5-way tone switch, great sound, and looks nice too :)

However, if you're brand new to playing guitar you may want to just get a starter guitar such as a Squier (cheap versions of Fender guitars, but still made by Fender).

maniacmusician
October 9th, 2006, 01:59 PM
nice guitar tom!

I second the fender strat recommendation, I love them. generally, if you're a serious guitarist, you want to spend close to $1000 on a guitar. For your first guitar though, I wouldnt touch anything above 300 until you decide you really love it.

%hMa@?b<C
October 9th, 2006, 02:17 PM
I play a standard mexican telecaster, highly recommend it, I absolutely love mine. My suggestion is to buy a used one. I bought mine used for $250 USD.
the one below is mine :) (sorry, I know that I am no photographer)
http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/5664/00002my0.jpg

raublekick
October 9th, 2006, 02:34 PM
jeffc, my guitar looks almost exactly like that, just with one of those ugly brown marbled pick guards. mine is a G&L ASAT Tribute though, not a Fender Tele


i say you can't go wrong with a Strat, and i'd even say a Squire Strat is well worth it for your first guitar.

fuscia
October 9th, 2006, 02:44 PM
Are the looks important ? I'm no musician but music for me is about sound and not looks

the prettier the guitar, the less noticeable is one's case of 'guitar face'.

a classic case...

http://lib.ru/SONGS/lee/tenyear4.jpg

mips
October 9th, 2006, 02:54 PM
the prettier the guitar, the less noticeable is one's case of 'guitar face'.



Lol, point taken.

halfvolle melk
October 9th, 2006, 02:56 PM
Yozef, what kind of music do you want to play? For instance, if you want to go beyond a crunch you'll need a humbucker (http://images.google.com/images?q=humbucker&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi) as opposed to a single coil (http://images.google.com/images?q=single%20coil&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi). You may also want to consider buying 2nd hand. At the cheaper shops around here the above mentioned SG G400 does about 300 EUR whereas 2nd hand ones are are anywhere between 150 and 200. It might have a scratch in the paint job, but hey ...

matthew
October 9th, 2006, 02:59 PM
I think we may have found fuscia's new avatar! Instead of "Hey, is that you in your avatar and are you single?" you will get "Hey, is that you in your avatar and are you looking for help?" :)

Back on topic... I thought I might give a little more of the reasoning behind my choices.

I chose a Tele first because it is quite versatile (country, blues, the entire LedZep I album) but also because a Tele can be brutally honest with you. You can't hide bad notes on a Tele as easily as you can on other guitars. It will force you to learn better technique and in the long run that is very important.

That is mostly true of the Strat as well, but it is perhaps a little more forgiving.

The Les Paul and SG are easier to play as they have a shorter scale length and therefore the tension on the strings is a bit less. They can be used in a large number of musical styles as well (they were designed for jazz, btw) but they won't give you as wide of a palate of tones to work from which is what someone else probably meant by they are less versatile. A good player can coax an amazing range of tones from a strat and even from a tele. That same player can't get the variety of tones on a Les Paul or an SG, but they will sound good.

Anyway, they are probably the 4 most common guitar types around so they are all worth looking into.

Regarding the recommendation of a Fender Squier, let me say that the quality of that line can be highly variable. I've seen some that are amazing and others that aren't worth a quarter of what people pay for them. Unless you have someone especially knowledgable that can help you with the purchase (locally), to go shopping with you and so on, I would advise looking at a higher level...this also goes back to your original post where you said you would rather have spend a little more for quality. The majority of the time you will need to replace a Squier with something better after your first year or two playing. That isn't true of any of the ones I mentioned, unless you start playing professionally, and even then they are adequate (perhaps not perfect, but usable).

EDIT: I second the recommendation to look at second hand instruments, especially if you have someone who can help you.

ComplexNumber
October 9th, 2006, 03:14 PM
I chose a Tele first because it is quite versatilei've heard that said before, but i can't for the life of me see the reasoning behind it. they seemed quite restrictive when i played one.



yozef
you can't go wrong with a yamaha. they are considered to be good quality and good value for money. there is no glitz or frills about them - they re just good quality instruments that stand the test of time.
you may want to consider an instrument that is coil tapped. my current guitarhas 2 coil tapped humbuckers. because each pickup is coil tapped, it means that the player can switch between humbuckers and single coils. humbuckers give a louder 'growling' kind of sound, whereas single coils give a brighter metallic sound. single coils tend to hum quite loudly in the presence of flourescent light and other electrical equipment. a coil tapped guitar gives one's guitar great variety of tone.

stuh84
October 9th, 2006, 03:16 PM
Yamaha Pacifica's are a great starter gutiar, best of both worlds, you get a humbucker in the bridge which is the best for rock and metal and that kind of deal. You also get single coils in the neck and middle position, which are great for clean tones, and also blues if thats your persuasion.

http://www.soundcontrol.co.uk/images/img_prod/large/large_1.1.1.1.1-30-250.jpg

I started on a Squier meself, and yet when I played a Pacifica a year ago, I thought damn, why couldn't I have started on this, I would probably still own it too, unlike the Squier.

I wouldn't recommend starting on a higher priced gutiar, because that way you aren't spending lots of money that you may not stick with. Even the most determined person can give up. Good thing with Pacifica's is there are lots of them about, and if you buy one second hand, you can sell it on for the same price or more if the time comes.

ComplexNumber
October 9th, 2006, 03:19 PM
I started on a Squier meself, and yet when I played a Pacifica a year ago, I thought damn, why couldn't I have started on this, I would probably still own it too, unlike the Squier.i consider squiers to be cheap rubbish. they are a brand to be avoided IMO.

matthew
October 9th, 2006, 03:30 PM
i've heard that said before, but i can't for the life of me see the reasoning behind it. they seemed quite restrictive when i played one.LOL. Most of the versatility is in the hands because a Tele is incredibly clean by nature and gives a crisp, clear tone. This allows you to vary what is heard through even the most subtle of changes in your pick attack (or finger picking) and fretting technique. Most guitars have more color in their tone and so these changes become more difficult to hear...on the extreme other end, high output active humbuckers are great for high-gain metal, but because they compress the sound you aren't likely to hear much difference between a hard pluck and a soft hammer-on. Notice that, like the Strat, you will find Telecasters in almost every musical style and they don't sound exactly the same. Anyway, that's why those of us who love Telecasters say they're so versatile. I will say that they are more difficult to bend to your sonic will, but all the more satisfying when you do...and that goes back to why I recommend them even for beginners--you will be forced to learn to play well. If you can play a Telecaster and sound good you can play anything, that's my opinion anyway. :)

BTW, I concur with the comments about Yamaha guitars. I have owned and played several very nice ones. The Pacifica is an especially good first guitar that a person might keep and love life-long.

ComplexNumber
October 9th, 2006, 03:44 PM
Most of the versatility is in the hands because a Tele is incredibly clean by nature and gives a crisp, clear tone. This allows you to vary what is heard through even the most subtle of changes in your pick attack (or finger picking) and fretting technique.yes, much of the tone that one gets from the instrument is due to the skill of the player. i don't seem to see many teles about these days. i always associate them with country music.



I will say that they are more difficult to bend to your sonic will, but all the more satisfying when you do...and that goes back to why I recommend them even for beginners--you will be forced to learn to play well.i agree with that in a way. but i also think that they are equally well suited to the uber-professional.

stuh84
October 9th, 2006, 03:56 PM
I will say that they are more difficult to bend to your sonic will, but all the more satisfying when you do...and that goes back to why I recommend them even for beginners--you will be forced to learn to play well.

I really don't think this should be recommend as a view. Its like saying you should only have Linux if you start using it without a GUI and only use a terminal. Plus personally I find Tele's useless for the styles of music I play anyway so theres no point trying to say they are the guitar for everyone.

matthew
October 9th, 2006, 03:56 PM
i also think that they are equally well suited to the uber-professional.definitely.

matthew
October 9th, 2006, 03:58 PM
I really don't think this should be recommend as a view. Its like saying you should only have Linux if you start using it without a GUI and only use a terminal. Plus personally I find Tele's useless for the styles of music I play anyway so theres no point trying to say they are the guitar for everyone.:)

A guitar is often an extension of one's personality. There isn't any guitar anywhere that will fit everyone equally. I recommended four different ones to start off for that very reason. I just happened to state my reasoning behind recommending the tele first, but that doesn't make it the best guitar choice for everyone.

stuh84
October 9th, 2006, 04:00 PM
Ah thats alright then, I mean for me I can't use guitars properly that have 6 strings, I'm a 7 string addict, and Tele's yeah they are alright for most styles, but they just aren't my styles.

halfvolle melk
October 9th, 2006, 04:00 PM
How many guitarists does it take to recommend an instrument? :mrgreen:

stuh84
October 9th, 2006, 04:02 PM
Same as it takes to change a light bulb. All of them. 1 to screw it in and every other single guitarist to say Hendrix did it better.....

dca
October 9th, 2006, 04:46 PM
I play a 2004 Fender American Strat. I think you could almost put E-guitars into two realms. The Strat-style and the Les Paul style. Strats (IMHO) are the easiest to play where as the Les Paul's have a very interesting feel both from fretting (the neck) and more so on how you pick because of that areas whole design...

Wallakoala
October 9th, 2006, 05:02 PM
I would say it depends most on what kind of music you want to play.

Do you like classic rock? If so, a standard fender stratocaster would most likely be the optimal guitar. Guitar legends like Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, and David Gilmour all used strats (among other guitars).

If you want to play heavy metal, then I would recommend a guitar with humbuckers. Somebody already explained what a humbucker is, but basically they are better for heavier distortion. Ibanez makes some pretty nice guitars with humbuckers.

Take note that if you like classic rock you can still get a guitar with humbuckers (I like classic rock and I have a guitar with humbuckers). Your tone just won't be as authentic.

fuscia
October 9th, 2006, 05:11 PM
all the guitarists (working ones, that is) i know have a number of guitars (one has 19 of them) and almost all of them seem to have a favorite they use 80% of the time. what ultimately ends up being the reason for their favoritism is in the way it feels. analogously, think of browsers, email clients and DE/wms: you may be 'wowed' by a software, but ultimately, you're going to use the one that 'feels' the best. with a guitar, you might be blown away with the sounds you can get out of it, but sound quality is not worth it at the expense of being able to make music the way you want to.

matthew
October 9th, 2006, 05:15 PM
all the guitarists (working ones, that is) i know have a number of guitars (one has 19 of them) and almost all of them seem to have a favorite they use 80% of the time. what ultimately ends up being the reason for their favoritism is in the way it feels. analogously, think of browsers, email clients and DE/wms: you may be 'wowed' by a software, but ultimately, you're going to use the one that 'feels' the best. with a guitar, you might be blown away with the sounds you can get out of it, but sound quality is not worth it at the expense of being able to make music the way you want to.I have four guitars, a bass and a mandolin. I only have one amplifier now. In the past I had several more guitars and as many as 3 or 4 amps at one time. All that said, I tend to use one electric more than most (I think the 80% figure is a pretty good estimate) and one acoustic almost exclusively. It is nice to know I can grab guitarX and make soundY if I want to, but really I've discovered most of the battle with tone is in the fingers and experience so I recommend most of all choosing a guitar you like the feel/look of because it will be the one you actually play.

raublekick
October 9th, 2006, 05:20 PM
I am 100% with Matthew. Telecasters are difficult to master, but give you a huge range of timbres to play with. When I first got my ASAT I messed around trying to get the same sounds as I got on my Steinberger, and I came pretty close (but my Steinberger just has cheap EMG Hz pickups). Then I started just messing around and finding new sounds. When I got my tube amp, the guitar just opened up to me. Clean, I can get some nice bright or dull tones, pop on the overdrive switch and i can go from just a light overdrive for country rock stuff, or I can crank it up just a little to get nice blues sounds. Then if I pop the boost switch I get some mega overdrive, and while I'm not going to be playing any metal solos on it, it works well for modern and classic rock, and I can tweak the tone and volume knobs on the guitar to refine the sound.

On my ASAT I have been able to get great tones for surf, blues, jazz, classic rock, modern rock, and trash rock (my word for bands like Eagles of Death Metal).

Also, I was never a big fan of southern rock / country music until I started playing my ASAT. That country twang is so fun to mess with, and I've started toying around with some psychadelic country (hah!).

fuscia
October 9th, 2006, 05:22 PM
"does this les paul make me look fat?"

ComplexNumber
October 9th, 2006, 05:24 PM
I have four guitars, a bass and a mandolin. I only have one amplifier now.
one thing tha i've learned is that one should never put a bass through a guitar amp :D



I recommend most of all choosing a guitar you like the feel/look of because it will be the one you actually play.
yup, but with much of the emphasis on the feel of it. at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what it looks like as long it feels right, the tone is good and suits the player, and its good quality.

maniacmusician
October 9th, 2006, 05:27 PM
yes definitely...I have 3 (working) guitars...a blue fender strat without the emblem on the headstock (got it for 50 bucks on ebay), a yamaha guitar from when i started, and a carlo robelli acoustic.

even after all this time of playing nicer, more expensive guitars, i always go back to my cheap strat because it feels so great. She's hard to tame but once you know how to play her...it's amazing. This one's going to be around for a long time.

So i definitely recommend going to a shop and buying a guitar there after fiddling around with it a little and liking how it feels in your hands. But if this is your first....then ignore this because all the previous posts have been excellent choices for that.

matthew
October 9th, 2006, 05:29 PM
one thing tha i've learned is that one should never put a bass through a guitar amp :D
Oops! lol


yup, but with much of the emphasis on the feel of it. at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what it looks like as long it feels right, the tone is good and suits the player, and its good quality.I agree. The only caveat is that if the player doesn't like how it looks he isn't likely to pick it up and play it. Hey, I dig that old, broken in, roadworn look so seeing SRV's old strat or Keith Richard's tele gets me excited. Others might think, "Ewww. I'm not touching that dirty old thing" and reach instinctively for the flame maple cherry burst LP (okay, I admit it, I would reach for that one too).

EDIT: oh, yeah. There was that time I fell in love with a purple strat that my wife wouldn't let me buy because it was "too feminine looking" so perhaps the opinion of a significant other could have some bearing. ;)

ComplexNumber
October 9th, 2006, 05:42 PM
EDIT: oh, yeah. There was that time I fell in love with a purple strat that my wife wouldn't let me buy because it was "too feminine looking" so perhaps the opinion of a significant other could have some bearing.
wives/girlfriends like to be the only feminine presence in their own home.

raublekick
October 9th, 2006, 05:45 PM
Hey, I dig that old, broken in, roadworn look so seeing SRV's old strat or Keith Richard's tele gets me excited.

Oh man, I love the old and weathered look. I can't wait for the finish on my ASAT to wear off :) I guess I should really start playing more, put all of my sweat and blood into it (literally!)

matthew
October 9th, 2006, 06:15 PM
wives/girlfriends like to be the only feminine presence in their own home.You know, she has called both my guitars and the computer "the other woman" at times...speaking of which, I'm being summoned for dinner. :)


Oh man, I love the old and weathered look. I can't wait for the finish on my ASAT to wear off :) I guess I should really start playing more, put all of my sweat and blood into it (literally!)My tele's fretboard has wear (all produced by me) as does the back of the neck and the body where my arm rubs against it. It feels so comfortable! (BTW, the G&L's I've played have been great instruments. You're a lucky guy.)

robcarr2
October 9th, 2006, 06:49 PM
Woo hoo!!!

These would be my top 4 recommendations as they are pretty consistently well made and reasonably affordable*. They are also good enough to use outside of your bedroom when you get better and want to do so. I'm sure others will chime in here as well. I can think of several other great guitars to begin on.

In order with links:
Fender Standard Telecaster (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Standard-Telecaster-Electric-Guitar?sku=516035)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/tn/4/7/4/327474.jpg

Fender Standard Stratocaster (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Standard-Stratocaster-Electric-Guitar?sku=516037)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/tn/4/8/2/327482.jpg

Epiphone Les Paul Standard (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Standard-Electric-Guitar?sku=518341)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/tn/7/1/3/393713.jpg

Epiphone G-400 SG (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-G400-SG-Electric-Guitar?sku=518291)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/tn/7/6/3/274763.jpg

*and in my experience they all play well. Make sure the shop you buy your guitar from does a "setup" for you when you buy it. That will help insure that it plays in tune up and down the neck and has a good feel in your hands. A poorly setup guitar, if made well and and undamaged, can generally be made to play quite well with a good setup. The store should do it for you at no additional cost when you buy the guitar, but you will probably need to ask.

Go with his recommendations, I was going to recommend those 4 myself, I own a strat, telecaster and les paul, sold my SG for an explorer.

mike3k
October 9th, 2006, 07:36 PM
I don't play the guitar, but the Fender Stratocaster is my favorite. Most of the great guitarists use it.

http://static.flickr.com/8/9219558_5820932beb.jpg

(Jimi M'baye, whose web site I host)

maniacmusician
October 9th, 2006, 07:39 PM
Go with his recommendations, I was going to recommend those 4 myself, I own a strat, telecaster and les paul, sold my SG for an explorer.
the yamaha pacifica is also a great choice. yamaha's are awesome first guitars.

Bezmotivnik
October 9th, 2006, 08:57 PM
the yamaha pacifica is also a great choice. yamaha's are awesome first guitars.
The Pacifica is an excellent axe for what it is and they can often be found very inexpensively. I think the longest online price I saw for a Pacifica was $119.99, shipped.

It tends to have better quality control than other lower-end guitars. For example, I would never buy a Mexican (or American) Fender sight-unseen due to their apparently non-existent QC. A few are OK, some have problems and some are absolute junk -- all from the same shipment and production run. In that one pays a lot for that Fender name, they should do a better job. I only buy Japanese and Korean production Fenders now, as they're the only ones from which you can routinely expect decent QC.

The main thing to check is the fretwork, and you have to know what to look for. As detailing fretwork is time-consuming and one of the few things that are not done robotically on modern axes, this tends to get skimped on to save production costs.

The worst common fault is improperly-seated frets, resulting from the tang slots not being deep enough. The frets should all be completely snug up against the fretboard all over. On an amazingly large number of guitars today, you'll see a gap between the shoulder of the fret and the wood, under which you can slip the corner of a piece of paper. This is an irrevocable defect. DON'T BUY! This is a very easy defect to spot, and I find it really disgusting that name brand instruments are being shipped with this problem. You can clean up a few sharp fret ends or dress a high fret, but you can't fix this problem (short of a pro refret) as it's due to the way the original fingerboard blank was cut.

The good news is that there are more and more really nice import guitars showing up at long discount. I am just crazy about those Hofner Coloramas that are turning up dirt cheap online for $129-$149 -- and this is coming from a guy who's buying a $2800 Gretsch this week.:rolleyes:

Zimmer
October 9th, 2006, 09:10 PM
ISBN 0 330 32750 X recommended reading and invaluable resource,
The Guitar Handbook, by Ralph Denyer

My daughter repossessed her Ibanez Strat copy this year, so I am now searching for an electric to play :)

Bezmotivnik
October 9th, 2006, 09:35 PM
wives/girlfriends like to be the only feminine presence in their own home.
Likewise female pets.

Seriously. :-|

robcarr2
October 9th, 2006, 10:48 PM
the yamaha pacifica is also a great choice. yamaha's are awesome first guitars.

I have never played a yamaha before, heard good things though, I experimented with different guitars when I first started around 6 or 7 years ago, but after buyin a fender / epiphone I have never looked at another guitar.

They just my personal favorites :)

RAV TUX
October 10th, 2006, 01:01 AM
Wow, a lot of great advice here, looks like buying a guitar is like finding the right Linux distro, you have to actually try them out, like how they look and function(sound), the wife's advice is highly esteemed for fashion, sound, and happiness:p

I just picked up my first electric guitar lastnight and fell in love don't know what it was but I loved playing it....

The only musical instruments I have ever played, both when I lived in Juneau, Alaska....the Cello and West African Drums....


havng played pizzicato on the cello most reminded me of the feel of the electric guitar, I always like the deep, mounful tone of the cello...

The electric guitar seems to share this quality, along with the potential I imagine of the spiritual high of playing West African Drums in a drum circle....

Ahhh,....Drum Circles...this would be a great inspiration for The NU Ubuntu Team meetings start with a drum circle and then pick up the eletric guitar....ok I am fantasizing here....wow

So my weekend venture, will be to a local music store...

I will reference this thread frequently for the great information...

I take it that I shouldn't buy a guitar without feeling it, not a purchase that can be made online?

Thanks to everybody for all the great 411.

maniacmusician
October 10th, 2006, 01:19 AM
with some guitars, that you already know are great beforehand, it's fine to buy them online. but it's better to try them first, yes. ie, my favorite guitar was bought through ebay for 50 bucks...it's a fender strat. But i absolutely love it. It was just lucky. since then, i've gotten five bad guitars from ebay.

good luck on your guitar hunt. it takes a while sometimes to find that "one".

Bezmotivnik
October 10th, 2006, 01:33 AM
The electric guitar seems to share this quality, along with the potential I imagine of the spiritual high of playing West African Drums in a drum circle....

Ahhh,....Drum Circles...
Some day (in another thread) I'd sure like someone to explain drum circles and -- more to the point -- drum circle people.
This is a subject of great mystery to me. :-k


I take it that I shouldn't buy a guitar without feeling it, not a purchase that can be made online?

I buy most of my new electric instruments online.

I never buy any guitar that's not on long sale -- so cheap that I can dump it at a profit if I don't like it. I don't buy instruments from places that don't have paid returns on defective merchandise and a fairly long inspection period. I try to get a look at the instrument at a local dealer and give him the opportunity to price-match the online seller, if the item is in stock.

With the advent of CNT machines, most instruments are primarily machine-made then assembled and finished with relatively little skilled hand work compared to as recently as twenty years ago. The result is that (aside from the ebb & flow of QC), electric instruments are more consistent in how they play and sound than previously, when electric guitars were handmade and were essentially unique.

You're not going to be in for many huge surprises when you buy an identical model online that you've already tried locally.

Setup -- adjustment -- of course will vary. I'm a more competent guitar tech than I know of locally, so I do my own the way I like them.

I would never again buy a used instrument on eBay. NEVER.

maniacmusician
October 10th, 2006, 01:39 AM
Some day (in another thread) I'd sure like someone to explain drum circles and -- more to the point -- drum circle people.
This is a subject of great mystery to me. :-k


I buy most of my new electric instruments online.

I never buy any guitar that's not on long sale -- so cheap that I can dump it at a profit if I don't like it. I don't buy instruments from places that don't have paid returns on defective merchandise and a fairly long inspection period. I try to get a look at the instrument at a local dealer and give him the opportunity to price-match the online seller, if the item is in stock.

With the advent of CNT machines, most instruments are primarily machine-made then assembled and finished with relatively little skilled hand work compared to as recently as twenty years ago. The result is that (aside from the ebb & flow of QC), electric instruments are more consistent in how they play and sound than previously, when electric guitars were handmade and were essentially unique.

You're not going to be in for many huge surprises when you buy an identical model online that you've already tried locally.

Setup -- adjustment -- of course will vary. I'm a more competent guitar tech than I know of locally, so I do my own the way I like them.

I would never again buy a used instrument on eBay. NEVER.
heh yeah ^ mine wasnt used. but still. I did get lucky. i love that guitar. plays like a dream.

it's true that guitars are more consistent nowadays...but a good setup does make a huge difference. I wish i was a guitar tech lol..

the guitar I really want...is a '69 fender competition mustang....that guitar is absolutely beautiful. I salivate at the thought of it. but if you find one in good condition, it'll be at least 1600 us dollars for it, if you're lucky. I dont have anywhere near that amount of cash...[sigh] i'll keep dreaming.

RAV TUX
October 10th, 2006, 02:44 AM
not that I would buy it on Ebay but this Epiphone Les Paul Standard looks pretty sweet

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Epiphone-Les-Paul-Standard_W0QQitemZ260038367794QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3 3037QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

maniacmusician
October 10th, 2006, 02:59 AM
yeah. with a guitar like that, if the seller has a good track record, I might take a chance, if i'm desperate for a guitar. But that guy (organization) is pretty new so wouldnt chance it at all.

better to spend more money at a store than to get a malfunctioned one in the mail.

Bezmotivnik
October 10th, 2006, 03:06 AM
I wish i was a guitar tech lol..
It's not rocket science, but it takes some common sense and a sensitive touch. A lot of people are just klutzes who wreck more than they fix, and that includes a really frightening number of "professional" guitar techs. No kidding.

Dan Erlewine's books (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=Dan%20Erlewine&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/104-1035108-0159966) are pretty good, though in his efforts to make his explanations concise for publication, he sometimes leaves out some critical information he takes for granted and doesn't realize it. I got into it with him about that a few years ago. ;) I've learned some stuff from his books, but feel that some of my ways make more sense and are less dangerous for beginners or owners of very valuable vintage instruments. Dan's a good guy, anyway.

Dan is a repairman; I was a vintage dealer. As such, our priorties and approaches to guitar maintenance were entirely different, much more so than I would have thought possible.

Proper setup of pre-CBS Stratocasters is agony, BTW.


the guitar I really want...is a '69 fender competition mustang....that guitar is absolutely beautiful.[sigh] i'll keep dreaming.
I got either a '69 or '70 Mustang brand new, virgin in the case, for $125 in 1971 from a Fender dealer who couldn't move it. MSRP was about $250 as I recall, and I turned it around for $200 a couple of weeks later. I believe it was a straight Arctic White Mustang (as I recall -- forgive me, but it's been thirty-five years), without the "Competition" racing stripe. Nobody would have been caught dead with that touch back then. Didn't think much of it, honestly. Goofy vibrato, cheap pickups.

Still don't. If Cobain (in his limitless eccentricity) hadn't used a Mustang, they'd still only be worth a few hundred bucks at most, I imagine.

maniacmusician
October 10th, 2006, 03:21 AM
i'm not saying it's a great guitar to play professionally...but having played one before, i can safely say it's one of my favorites. I just like the feel of it. I dont know, i got a great feeling of age from it. it was ancient and still cranking out stuff. As for the competition racing stripe; they look nice (I think) but i wouldnt pay extra for one. I just want a mustang.

I dunno if cobain using one had any effect on its price really...most people dont even know that he played a mustang. and they're worth quite a lot these days. (but, you could probably make that argument for a Jag-Stang. now THERE'S a goofy guitar) In terms of playability, they're probably not worth more than around 500, but they're fun. I'd pay for one if i could.

I dont really know anything of being a guitar techie. I can change my own strings at the most. and that's still a b*tch with my acoustic.

GuitarHero
October 10th, 2006, 03:28 AM
http://www.rondomusic.net/electricguitar-ss4.html
Look at agile guitars. Incredibly cheap for awesome quality. Cheap enough that you can get it set up if you dont like the feel. Search google for agile guitars, you'll find a ton of happy customers.

ebozzz
October 12th, 2006, 05:12 PM
Do it! I'm not a guitarist (Bassist here! :cool: ) but if I were looking for a guitar I would consider the American made Peavey Limited (http://marltonguitargallery.com/shop/images/Peavey_ST.jpg). It's a discontinued item but great instrument. I've seen them sell for as little as $350.00 for an NOS axe including the case. The were selling for $1000.00 plus prior to being shelved.

ComplexNumber
October 12th, 2006, 05:24 PM
Bassist here!
woot! same here.




but if I were looking for a guitar I would consider the American made Peavey Limited (http://marltonguitargallery.com/shop/images/Peavey_ST.jpg)
before i bought my present(unused) guitar, i considered peavey telecaster with piezo pickups to make it sound like an acoustic.

Bezmotivnik
October 12th, 2006, 07:58 PM
i considered peavey telecaster with piezo pickups to make it sound like an acoustic.
The Mexican Fender "Nashville Power Telecaster" had that feature, but they had quite a few problems with them. They're still listed on the Fender site, but I don't know if this version is still in production or not. They were not that popular.

ComplexNumber
October 12th, 2006, 08:19 PM
The Mexican Fender "Nashville Power Telecaster" had that feature, but they had quite a few problems with them. They're still listed on the Fender site, but I don't know if this version is still in production or not. They were not that popular.
whwn i played it, it sounded really beautiful. it was also very reasonably priced. its just that i was looking for what i consider to be a stylish guitar with coil taps so that i could get the widest range of tone, but i don't consider teles or strats to be stylish. i consider archtops and les pauls to be the most stylish, then SG's.

Bezmotivnik
October 12th, 2006, 09:01 PM
i consider archtops and les pauls to be the most stylish, then SG's.
Yeah. I'm considering getting a Gretsch Tennessee Rose (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gretsch-Guitars-G61191962HT-Tennessee-Rose-Electric-Guitar?sku=517766) purely for looks, but there are too many practical problems (notably that dreadful vintage bridge) not to give me second thoughts, even at the price.

I have a DeArmond X-155 (http://www.dearmondguitars.com/x155.html) I keep around merely as a photo prop, I think.

I think a goldtop '56 LP Standard is probably the most beautiful production guitar design ever, but simply can't handle the weight of a Les Paul any longer. I've had a ton of Les Pauls over the decades, modern and vintage, starting with an original '52 (terrible guitar, BTW), but none for very long. I had one in the '80s that was so heavy it must have broken all records. I think every guitarist in San Francisco had that axe for about a week before offloading it. You'd reach down and grab the handle of the case to pick it up and you'd swear for a second that it was bolted to the floor. :rolleyes: It was just unusable.

My rule now is that I don't want anything over 7.5 pounds. I love my American Nashville B-Bender (http://www.stringbender.com/bender/fenderb.html), but that Fender/Parsons-Green bender adds an appalling amount of weight.

I've never been an SG guy until fairly recently, and I have some regrets. They're relatively light, but the balance is usually pretty bad, particularly with the big-necked examples.

And of course, there's the usual gawdawful Gibson quality control. I could tell you horror stories all day. :-?

ComplexNumber
October 12th, 2006, 09:14 PM
My rule now is that I don't want anything over 7.5 pounds.
the lightest guitar i tried was a green Cort. it was just so light! i can't remember the name of the model, though.




And of course, there's the usual gawdawful Gibson quality control.
a good reason for not getting a modern fender too.

Bezmotivnik
October 12th, 2006, 09:29 PM
a good reason for not getting a modern fender too.
Yep, unless it's a Fender Japan or Korean Cor-Tek ("Cort") build.

After five out of five of my new American Fenders started blistering and shedding their neck finish (this aside from the notorious maple fingerboard flaking), I stopped buying American Fenders; I've always avoided the Mexican ones. FMIC may have finally (and quietly) fixed that problem, but I'm not taking it for granted.

ComplexNumber
October 12th, 2006, 09:33 PM
Yep, unless it's a Fender Japan or Korean Cor-Tec ("Cort") build.i would agree about good japanese build, but i wouldn't be too sure about korean or chinese made. i've always seen them as ones to avoid. american(or it may have been mexican) built are meant to be quite good.

ebozzz
October 12th, 2006, 11:00 PM
woot! same here.

Bassists Rule! 8) :mrgreen:

Peavey makes some great products that just seem to make it mainstream. I personally think that it has a lot to do with with the way that they market (VERY limited] their products. I don't know it you have every tried Peavey's American made Millennium basses but they rock! I have a Millennium Plus 4 and a Plus 5. Same story as the Limited. It was discontinued and I got both for less than 50% of what their retail price (not list) was.

Bezmotivnik
October 12th, 2006, 11:10 PM
i would agree about good japanese build, but i wouldn't be too sure about korean or chinese made.

The Korean ones are better constructed and finished than the American ones.

I usually see excellently-built Cor-Tek Fenders. I never see excellently-built Corona -- much less Ensenada! -- Fenders. "Adequate" is about all one can hope for.

However...the Korean ones typically don't have as good, or at least as expensive, materials and parts as the US Fenders, because FMIC makes sure of that when they contract the build with Cor-Tek. They also manage to just slightly mess up the design on competitive models. A lot of the more unusual short-run designs are Cor-Tek builds with top-quality, American-built aftermarket Duncan or Fender pickups. These are generally excellent (because they are not "competing" with a US Corona model), though weird (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Toronado-GT-HH-Electric-Guitar?sku=511942). I got a Showmaster Scorpion (http://www.guitartrader.com/bigimage.icl?pid=37788&orderidentifier=ID1078351991325502628305130&srcdoc=itempg%2Eicl%3Forderidentifier%3DID10783519 91325502628305130%26secid%3D1020%26eflag%3D0%26num items%3D43%26curitempos%3D23%26dirpage%3Ddir2%26it mid%3D3778) a couple of years ago, and while it's a little "pointy" for me -- and very, very black! -- it's an excellent guitar, beautifully made, with good custom pickups out of the Corona pickup shop.

FMIC also makes sure the FJs that are imported to the US are slightly downgraded if there are comparable FMIC models so they aren't blatantly better. FJ domestic guitars typically have American Fender pickups. The FJs that FMIC imports to the US usually have these supplied with the low-end Japanese pickups, for example.

There are no Chinese Fender-brand electrics sold in the US. There are elsewhere, however. Some Chinese Squiers are sold as Fenders abroad and there are mid-grade Chinese axes sold as Fender in Asia. My buddy, Mark Wong (http://www.photoweborama.com/guitarframeset.html), took some photos of them when he was in China.


american(or it may have been mexican) built are meant to be quite good.
In terms of gross quality control flaws, I think Mexican Fenders are worse than Squiers. At least half the Ensenada Fenders I have seen were awful. QC is just not important in the Mexican plant, largely because of some specific management policies there that I think are just plain crazy.

ComplexNumber
October 12th, 2006, 11:18 PM
I don't know it you have every tried Peavey's American made Millennium basses but they rock!i haven't tried any peavey basses at all.
i'm considering buying a 5 string bass with a high C(instead of a low B) in the next 6-12 months, and i'll probably go for either a warwich or a lakeland. i have no real need for a low B because i won't be going any lower than a low E, the high C seems more logical because i think of scales starting from either E or A string(or higher), and they can often sound really muddy iif not setup right. if yamaha did more high end basses, i would get a yamaha because i think they make great quality products, but they seem to be better in the low-mid end of the market.




In terms of gross quality control flaws, I think Mexican Fenders are worse than Squiersthat must be really bad then :D.

Bezmotivnik
October 12th, 2006, 11:47 PM
I just bugged Mark and here are some shots of the China-only Fenders (http://www.photoweborama.com/china/beijing/pages/DSCF3786.html).

ComplexNumber
October 12th, 2006, 11:51 PM
I just bugged Mark and here are some shots of the China-only Fenders (http://www.photoweborama.com/china/beijing/pages/DSCF3786.html).
i can't tell anything from a photo.

ebozzz
October 13th, 2006, 05:07 AM
i haven't tried any peavey basses at all.
i'm considering buying a 5 string bass with a high C(instead of a low B) in the next 6-12 months, and i'll probably go for either a warwich or a lakeland. i have no realneed for a low B because i won't be going any lower than a low E, the high C seems more logical because i think of scales starting from either E or A string(or higher), and they can often sound really muddy iif not setup right. if yamaha did more high end basses, i would get a yamaha because i think they make great quality products, but they seem to be better in the low-mid end of the market.

If you are going to look at a Warwick you need to check out the Peavey Cirrus (http://www.peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/drill/cat/17/begin/1/CirrusSeries.cfm). It's still in production and doing well. It's not what I would consider to be an inexpensive bass as a new purchase. It reminds me more of a Ken Smith. You could easily get one on the used market for $700.00 US or less. I've got a Bubinga/Walnut Cirrus 5.

http://www.peavey.com/images/fullsize/00350280.jpg

My Millenniums are are comparable to the Lakland 55-94/55-02, 44-94/44-02. The 02 (Skyline) series are the Korean made imported instruments but you probably already knew that. I feel that my Millenniums are of better overall quality to the imports but slightly less than the American made Laklands. Here's a couple of pictures of the Millennim Plus.

Millennium Plus 4

http://namm.harmony-central.com/SNAMM00/Content/Peavy/PR/mil4-plus.jpg

Millennium Plus 5

http://namm.harmony-central.com/SNAMM00/Content/Peavy/PR/mil5pls.jpg

The Warwick and Lakland are different animals. The Lakland is going to give you more of a modern Fender-like tone. Personally, I don't like the ergonomics of the Warwick but they are nice basses.

matthew
October 13th, 2006, 09:53 AM
I thought I'd add a couple of thoughts here:

-I agree about the inconsistent quality issues with a lot of Fenders. That said, I have a Mexican made Tele Special from 1995 that is excellent and rivals anything I've seen them make. Sometimes you can get lucky.

-Peavey makes some great stuff. They were the first large company to use the computer-controlled cutting machines for making their guitar bodies and necks. They have a lot of experience at doing this and do it quite well. (They also took a lot of flak for it when they did it--by many of the same companies and people that today do the same thing!) They are worth looking at anyway.

-I know it's weird, but I like the Fender Toronado. :o

drucer
October 13th, 2006, 10:57 AM
Good luck! You know it is really so - it's never too late to start playing some instrument. Music is such a great thing, I suggest everybody to pick up some instrument and start playing. It will help you when you're feeling stressed. You will totally forget everything job related when you pick up the instrument and start playing.

ComplexNumber
October 13th, 2006, 01:16 PM
Good luck! You know it is really so - it's never too late to start playing some instrument. Music is such a great thing, I suggest everybody to pick up some instrument and start playing. It will help you when you're feeling stressed. You will totally forget everything job related when you pick up the instrument and start playing.
i agree. i think its always good for someone to have a creative outlet.



ebozzz
thanks for that :). i'll look into peavey's line nearer the time for me to upgrade.

ebozzz
October 13th, 2006, 06:15 PM
-Peavey makes some great stuff. They were the first large company to use the computer-controlled cutting machines for making their guitar bodies and necks. They have a lot of experience at doing this and do it quite well. (They also took a lot of flak for it when they did it--by many of the same companies and people that today do the same thing!) They are worth looking at anyway.

Very true. I'm not reall high on their import line but the American made stuff is top notch. The imports don't come close. Here are a couple of pictures of the Peavey Limited USA.

http://marltonguitargallery.com/shop/images/Peavy-Limited.jpg

http://marltonguitargallery.com/shop/images/Peavey_ST.jpg

http://www.yzlguitar.com/bbs/UploadFile/2006-3/200632917343377072.jpg

They actually came in three different pickup configurations.

S/S/S

HB/S/S

HB/HB

Bezmotivnik
October 13th, 2006, 07:52 PM
I have a Mexican made Tele Special from 1995 that is excellent and rivals anything I've seen them make. Sometimes you can get lucky.
My position is that luck shouldn't have that much to do with it.

QC is a matter of management policy. Inspectors don't "miss" flaws. They are told to ship instruments that are no worse than a certain rating of permissible defects. QC is turned up and down like a thermostat. It's that simple.

What happens then is that individual workers lower their standards of production to meet the lowest acceptable level of quality. This is particularly the case in Ensenada, where the workers (incredibly) work on a quota system. They turn out their work quota and they go home with full pay. On Fridays, they try to get their work done BY 11:00 AM! Do you want a Friday axe?

In essence, conscientious and careful work is penalized. If you get a really good axe or a really well-done part of an axe, it's a fluke.

What's really awful is that people are such suckers that they tolerate defects in "name" American made instruments that they would scream bloody murder about in a $300 Indonesian-made house brand. Fender's bad enough, but what Gibson gets away with is just mind-boggling.


I know it's weird, but I like the Fender Toronado. :o
Which one? They're all very different, so much so that I don't understand why they have the same name. I really liked the American ones from a couple of years ago.

matthew
October 13th, 2006, 08:31 PM
My position is that luck shouldn't have that much to do with it.

What's really awful is that people are such suckers that they tolerate defects in "name" American made instruments that they would scream bloody murder about in a $300 Indonesian-made house brand. Fender's bad enough, but what Gibson gets away with is just mind-boggling.
In all respects I agree. I was just saying that if there's someone along who knows what to look for then it's not necessary to write off the whole line.

Re: the Toronado. I must have meant the older USA ones as I didn't even realize there were others. I haven't seen one in years...probably since they first came out. :)

Bezmotivnik
October 13th, 2006, 08:46 PM
Re: the Toronado. I must have meant the older USA ones as I didn't even realize there were others. I haven't seen one in years...probably since they first came out. :)
Bro! You're not paying attention here! Remember this (http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/4/3/3/229433.jpg)? :mrgreen:

Yep, it's a Toronado! (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Toronado-GT-HH-Electric-Guitar?sku=511942)

Cor-Tek built w/US Duncans.

matthew
October 13th, 2006, 09:02 PM
Okay, that's hideous...and yet I can't seem to look away.

This is what I was thinking of. It's still the same body, isn't it?
http://www.gear-review.co.uk/goodies/wp/tn_toro.jpg

ebozzz
October 13th, 2006, 11:03 PM
I noticed that there is a very strong Fender following here as well as some appreciation for the Fenders constructed in Japan. Here are a couple of cool sites....:mrgreen:

Guitar Japan (http://www.guitarjapan.com/index.html)

Ishibashi (ttp://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/web/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ishibashi.co.jp%2F&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2)

Some cool things are avaiable at those sites.

ComplexNumber
October 13th, 2006, 11:21 PM
I noticed that there is a very strong Fender following here
not me. i think they are quite overrated. i think they used to be good, but not now.
they also have more 'glitz'(due to their past reputation) then substance IMO. everyone know the name fender, so people think they are getting a quality product. gibson are another such company.
i prefer the less glitzy names such as yamaha and gordon smith that are more substance than image.

ebozzz
October 14th, 2006, 12:17 AM
not me. i think they are quite overrated. i think they used to be good, but not now.
they also have more 'glitz'(due to their past reputation) then substance IMO. everyone know the name fender, so people think they are getting a quality product. gibson are another such company.
i prefer the less glitzy names such as yamaha and gordon smith that are more substance than image.

I agree that there is some hype when it concerns Fender basses and guitars. When they are good though it's hard to complain about the tone/performance. I currently own a total of 7 instruments. Only 2 of the 7 are Fenders. They are a '01 American Deluxe Jazz and '90 Standard Jazz Fretless made in Japan that I have modded (J-Retro preamp & Noiseless Jazz pickups added). I don't think that I would buy anything based solely on brand. I would not disregard anything for a name either. Ideally I look for good/great instruments that are under valued for whatever reason.

RAV TUX
November 28th, 2006, 04:14 AM
Ok the time has come, I spoke with a woman at my work who is a musician...and is actually doing 4 shows in NY this weekend...

and she informed me of the best place to buy a guitar....in my area

Guitar Center

http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/guitar/navigation/guitar?N=100005+324262&Ne=1442&page=1

I plan on going this weekend to make my first guitar purchase...

Take a look on their site at what they have...


My question is what to play also? Bass? or not? I have played the Cello in the past and I liked the deep mournful sound but I may want more...then Bass,....I don't know


I would like to spend not more then $300 on my first guitar...all the name brands I find a bit confusing....The Guitar Center appears to have some good sales right now but I really need some help from some experienced musicians here...please take a look and let me know if any look good to you...

I would really appreciate it.

Jozef

RAV TUX
November 28th, 2006, 04:34 AM
I read a lot of recommendations for the Peavey guitars,...here are 3 I am considering....

RAV TUX
November 28th, 2006, 04:38 AM
http://img3.guitarcenter.com/dbase/pics/logo/thumbnail/2641.t.gif (http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/bass/navigation/peavey?N=100005+202641)
In-your-face sounds with an expanded sonic palette. With humbucking VFL pickups from the Cirrus basses, active electronics, and a string-thru-body bridge for resonance, the AC packs a huge sonic punch. Crafted with a rosewood fretboard, basswood body, quilted maple top, a hard-rock maple neck, and fast-playing jumbo frets. VFL pickups are famous for their studio-quiet performance and thick, rich, expressive sound.

Peavey Millennium 5 AC BXP 5-String Bass


$349.99

maniacmusician
November 28th, 2006, 04:39 AM
I still stand by the recommendations I made during the conception of this thread, and other people recommended some good ones as well. Peavey's are decent.

If you're looking for a deep mournful sound, I'd stick with a cello. in my experience, it's hard to coax a bass guitar into sounding like that. But then, I'm not exactly a master bassist. I suppose with the right effects pedals and fingerwork, you could get something similar, but I'd stick to simpler stuff.

RAV TUX
November 28th, 2006, 04:40 AM
http://img3.guitarcenter.com/dbase/pics/logo/thumbnail/2641.t.gif (http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/bass/navigation/peavey?N=100005+202641)
Upgraded electronics treat you to lots of tasty tones. With humbucking VFL pickups from the Cirrus basses, active electronics, and a string-thru-body bridge for resonance, the AC packs a huge sonic punch. Crafted with a rosewood fretboard, basswood body, quilted maple top, a hard-rock maple neck, and fast-playing jumbo frets. VFL pickups are famous for their studio-quiet performance and thick, rich, expressive sound.

Peavey Millennium 4 AC BXP 4-String Bass

$299.99

RAV TUX
November 28th, 2006, 04:43 AM
I still stand by the recommendations I made during the conception of this thread, and other people recommended some good ones as well. Peavey's are decent.

If you're looking for a deep mournful sound, I'd stick with a cello. in my experience, it's hard to coax a bass guitar into sounding like that. But then, I'm not exactly a master bassist. I suppose with the right effects pedals and fingerwork, you could get something similar, but I'd stick to simpler stuff.

Not really looking to replicate the deep mournful sound of a Cello...looking to have more freedom with an electric Guitar...

I am looking for something other-then the Cello, I only referenced it because this is the only string instrument I have experience with, the only other instrument I have played is the West African Drums.

My question is would I limit myself with a Bass...if I want more creative flexibility?

RAV TUX
November 28th, 2006, 04:47 AM
Ok I dug up your original post and honestly from this Thread I remember the Fender Strat and the Les Paul the best....this is what I was originally looking for...

but I have to say those Peaveys are beautiful

I guess I really have to feel and hear them this weekend in the Guitar shop...

but I want to be prepared...

thats why I am doing my homework now


nice guitar tom!

I second the fender strat recommendation, I love them. generally, if you're a serious guitarist, you want to spend close to $1000 on a guitar. For your first guitar though, I wouldnt touch anything above 300 until you decide you really love it.


Woo hoo!!!

These would be my top 4 recommendations as they are pretty consistently well made and reasonably affordable*. They are also good enough to use outside of your bedroom when you get better and want to do so. I'm sure others will chime in here as well. I can think of several other great guitars to begin on.

In order with links:
Fender Standard Telecaster (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Standard-Telecaster-Electric-Guitar?sku=516035)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/tn/4/7/4/327474.jpg

Fender Standard Stratocaster (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Standard-Stratocaster-Electric-Guitar?sku=516037)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/tn/4/8/2/327482.jpg

Epiphone Les Paul Standard (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Standard-Electric-Guitar?sku=518341)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/tn/7/1/3/393713.jpg

Epiphone G-400 SG (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-G400-SG-Electric-Guitar?sku=518291)
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/tn/7/6/3/274763.jpg

*and in my experience they all play well. Make sure the shop you buy your guitar from does a "setup" for you when you buy it. That will help insure that it plays in tune up and down the neck and has a good feel in your hands. A poorly setup guitar, if made well and and undamaged, can generally be made to play quite well with a good setup. The store should do it for you at no additional cost when you buy the guitar, but you will probably need to ask.

RAV TUX
November 28th, 2006, 04:50 AM
one last Peavey I am looking at:

http://img3.guitarcenter.com/dbase/pics/logo/thumbnail/2641.t.gif (http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/bass/navigation/peavey?N=100005+202641)
Neck-thru resonance and feel, heavy passive humbuckers, and jaw-dropping looks. You can see how fabulous it looks, but just wait till you lay your hands on it. The 5-piece mahogany/maple neck runs right through the body for supreme resonance and great visual appeal. The passive humbuckers churn out punchy and powerful low end while the scalloped bottom horn makes for effortless high-fret access.

Peavey Grind Bass Guitar 5 BXP NTB


$399.99

RAV TUX
November 28th, 2006, 04:55 AM
another question what are the functional differences in sound and creativity in the 4, 5 and 6 strings?

Does 6 strings = more creativity? what do players here prefer? what are the benefits of a 6 string over a 4 string beyond the obvious of having more tones?

does it make a difference?

maniacmusician
November 28th, 2006, 05:04 AM
Technically, the more strings you have, the more flexibility you will have, because it will give you a wider range of sounds to work with. If you plan on being a bassist in the long term, a 5-string bass is a good investment.

As for the limitation of creativity, it depends on how you look at it. Guitars are more flexible in the sounds that they can create and how crazy you can get with them. There are a lot of variations you can do of everything, and it would take many lifetimes to totally master it. The bass guitar has less flexibility due to many factors, and is a more challenging instrument if you're serious about it. In my experience, traditional bass playing is very boring. It's usually just a simple, repetitive melody.

It's easier to be creative with a guitar, IMHO, but a bass is more challenging (at least in my experience), so it forces you to be more creative if you want to keep it interesting all the time.

Don't know if any of that made sense. I suppose it's kind of hard to put into words.

RAV TUX
November 28th, 2006, 05:05 AM
I do like the Les Pauls...

http://img3.guitarcenter.com/dbase/pics/logo/thumbnail/990.t.gif (http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/guitar/navigation/epiphone?N=100005+200990)
Legendary trademark Les Paul sound at a paltry price. You may well agree that the Epiphone Les Paul Standard Electric Guitar is the best guitar in its price range. Two humbucking pickups deliver big slabs of the fat warm tones; transcontinental sustain; and deep, soulful distortion that made this guitar famous. Crafted with an alder/mahogany body and carved maple top, 22-fret rosewood fingerboard, cream body and fingerboard binding, and chrome hardware. Limited lifetime warranty.

Epiphone Les Paul Standard Electric Guitar



$379.99 - $499.99

This appears to have exactely the description in sound that I am looking for....


Two humbucking pickups deliver big slabs of the fat warm tones; transcontinental sustain; and deep, soulful distortion that made this guitar famous.

This is what I was refering to when I mentioned the Cello....deep, soulful distortion....;)

RAV TUX
November 28th, 2006, 05:09 AM
Technically, the more strings you have, the more flexibility you will have, because it will give you a wider range of sounds to work with. If you plan on being a bassist in the long term, a 5-string bass is a good investment.

As for the limitation of creativity, it depends on how you look at it. Guitars are more flexible in the sounds that they can create and how crazy you can get with them. There are a lot of variations you can do of everything, and it would take many lifetimes to totally master it. The bass guitar has less flexibility due to many factors, and is a more challenging instrument if you're serious about it. In my experience, traditional bass playing is very boring. It's usually just a simple, repetitive melody.

It's easier to be creative with a guitar, IMHO, but a bass is more challenging (at least in my experience), so it forces you to be more creative if you want to keep it interesting all the time.

Don't know if any of that made sense. I suppose it's kind of hard to put into words.

Actually alot of this has made since to me, and it has helped immensely...I think while the Bass and the Peaveys are beautiful instruments it is probably not a good first guitar for me...

After reviewing the Fender Strats and the Les Pauls...I think I may opt for the Les Pauls...

at least for my first guitar...I can always in the future buy a second and even third guitar...

but I should start somewhere....and I do appreciate your help...

Thank You.

RAV TUX
November 28th, 2006, 05:10 AM
a close up of the Les Paul

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2497/lespaulrv3.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2497/lespaulrv3.jpg)

maniacmusician
November 28th, 2006, 05:12 AM
Sure, but don't base it on my opinion alone, I'm sure other people have things to say about it as well. Everything I said is relative to my experience with bass guitars.

the epiphones are nice, yes. My friend has a more expensive version of the one you posted; very classy guitar. I loved playing it. Only thing I didn't like about it was how hard the sound was to manipulate properly...but thats because these guitars have their own very distinct sound. And its a great sound. But you really have to hear it for yourself and decide if that's what you want.

RAV TUX
November 28th, 2006, 05:16 AM
Sure, but don't base it on my opinion alone, I'm sure other people have things to say about it as well. Everything I said is relative to my experience with bass guitars.

the epiphones are nice, yes. My friend has a more expensive version of the one you posted; very classy guitar. I loved playing it. Only thing I didn't like about it was how hard the sound was to manipulate properly...but thats because these guitars have their own very distinct sound. And its a great sound. But you really have to hear it for yourself and decide if that's what you want.

Great points...I will inevitably make my mind up this weekend when I get to the guitar shop and feel them in my hands and in my soul

I will look and try all three the Fender Strat, the Les Paul and the Peavey...

here is another view of the Les Paul:

Epiphone Les Paul Standard Electric Guitar


http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5223/epiphonelespaulstandardrq7.jpg (http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5223/epiphonelespaulstandardrq7.jpg)

maniacmusician
November 28th, 2006, 05:22 AM
yup, those guitars are great fun, if set up properly. I have this junky old fender strat with me, that I've had since I first started playing. It was the second guitar I ever owned. Though it's fairly trashy, I always keep coming back to it. I love that guitar. Anyways, i'm off to bed. 'night.

skale
November 28th, 2006, 05:46 AM
Go for the Squier strat-packs. Cheap and include everything. I have one, and don't plan on ever needing a new guitar.

However, I would play it before I buy it, because I heard that there are some lemons in the bunch.

dart1007
November 28th, 2006, 07:15 AM
This is my Lefty Japanese Greco SG

ebozzz
November 28th, 2006, 07:52 AM
I still stand by the recommendations I made during the conception of this thread, and other people recommended some good ones as well. Peavey's are decent.

If you are talking about the Peavey imports, you're right. They're decent. The American made basses are WAY better than that.

ebozzz
November 28th, 2006, 07:56 AM
In my experience, traditional bass playing is very boring. It's usually just a simple, repetitive melody.

Without those boring repetitive melodies you would not have people grooving to your beats! ;)

steven8
November 28th, 2006, 08:11 AM
I got 2 cents handy. let me throw it in here. I have owned a standard Stratocaster, a Telecaster, a headless Cort (used double-balled strings), a Yamaha SE 250, a Sears and Roebuck 12 string acoustic, a Takamine Hand built Cherry Wood acoustic and a number of cheap copies. My favorite, barnone, was the Yamaha. That was the sweetest, smoothest, easiest playing guitar I ever had. The action was like melted butter. I had a Fender Sidekick amp (can't recall lthe wattage), but they were a great combo.

One a secondary note, we just got my son a guitar for Christmas. A First Act. Excellent guitars for the price. Ask Paul Westerberg from the Replacements. he stopped in at a Wal-Mart on the way to a gig, and saw a First Act guitar and bought it. he played it that night on stage, and now has his own autograph edition First Act guitar. Good stuff!!

dbbolton
November 28th, 2006, 08:13 AM
i don't think Ibanez can be beaten on quality-to-price ratio.

come on, dude. theyre japanese.

ar300 right here

except mine's korean. it plays every bit as well as a les paul double-cut, and much better than any epiphone i've ever picked up.

steven8
November 28th, 2006, 08:16 AM
I have played an Ibanez, and I liked it. I didn't care for the Gretsch I played. Didn't like it at all.

RAV TUX
November 29th, 2006, 02:25 AM
I will have to take a look at the Ibanez's also...

Rotarychainsaw
November 29th, 2006, 02:36 AM
Go schecter! Theyre pretty good for the money I'd say. My cheapy plays great, and with a little rewiring, sounds great too.

maniacmusician
November 29th, 2006, 04:19 AM
If you are talking about the Peavey imports, you're right. They're decent. The American made basses are WAY better than that.

I didn't mean to downplay Peavey's, I guess it came out wrong, it being the internet and all. The Peavey's I've played (dont know if they were american or imports) were very good. I enjoyed playing them.


Without those boring repetitive melodies you would not have people grooving to your beats! ;)

For sure :) But that's not to say it couldn't be made more interesting. I know a couple of very talented bassists that keep a nice simple groove going while still keeping it hard to play and interesting, with lots of subtle things going on. I don't like it when bassists "settle" for being lazy because their contributions are not as easily noticed.

ebozzz
November 29th, 2006, 07:22 AM
For sure :) But that's not to say it couldn't be made more interesting. I know a couple of very talented bassists that keep a nice simple groove going while still keeping it hard to play and interesting, with lots of subtle things going on. I don't like it when bassists "settle" for being lazy because their contributions are not as easily noticed.

I'm a bassist and I'm with you 100% on that! It's all about note placement and embellishing the track in a tasteful manner.

RAV TUX
December 2nd, 2006, 11:49 PM
I stopped at a Guitar Center near my work lastnight and tried a few guitars out...

I made a decision on what I want to buy:

Fender Stratocaster

here is a picture of 2 models I like:




Big Block Stratocaster® 0134200
The Big Block Stratocaster doesn’t need a strap; it needs a safety belt! It's sure to impress with its slick black paint, chromed-out look and block inlays. The Enforcer™ humbucking bridge pickup and two black Stratocaster single-coil pickups deliver a broad array of tones suited for any musical style.
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/8602/0134200306xlmx8.jpg (http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/8602/0134200306xlmx8.jpg)
and




American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster® 0101400
The American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster guitar is for players looking for a traditional ash-body Fender guitar that “does it all.” The S-1™ switching system and three Samarium Cobalt Noiseless™ Strat pickups make this guitar extremely versatile and provide endless tonal variety. It also features a two-point synchronized tremolo with stainless steel saddles, modern C-shaped maple neck with a maple or rosewood fingerboard, abalone inlays and 22 medium jumbo frets.
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/559/0101402750xlbc4.jpg (http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/559/0101402750xlbc4.jpg)

matthew
December 3rd, 2006, 12:07 AM
RAV TUX: either Stratocaster model should serve you well. The ash one will likely be a bit heavier, but unless you will be playing in public for extended periods of time that isn't likely to be a big issue for you. It could have a little more sustain due to the ash body, but that can be a pretty subjective assessment. Pick the one you like the best...if they're pretty equal in your eyes, get the cheaper one. I think either one could make you happy for a long time. :)

EDIT: if it was me, I would go for the ash one. I like maple fretboards, it's American made with the US hardware (maybe Betzmovik knows more about the other one, I don't recognize it right off), and has a more traditional control setup (2 tone knobs and a volume, 3 single coil pickups). The black and chrome look is pretty cool, though.

ComplexNumber
December 3rd, 2006, 12:21 AM
RAV TUX
you may want to strongly consider losing that tremolo bar unless you are definitely going to use it all ther time.

dbbolton
December 3rd, 2006, 12:41 AM
a word to the wise on fenders:

stay away from anything non-american made (eg anything under $1000). my friend got a double fat strat for around 500 clams and had nothing but problems with it. sounds like crap. plays like crap. won't stay in tune. horrible intonation. blah blah blah

complexnumber is right about the tremolo bar. those things are just a pain in the intonation.

that am. ash strat you picked out is definitely a winner. personally, i prefer tele's, but the american strat's i've played are well worth the price tag.

ebozzz
December 3rd, 2006, 12:45 AM
Last time I checked this place had great prices on Fender gear....

www.drumcityguitarland.com

Ask for Jason.

Charles

ComplexNumber
December 3rd, 2006, 12:46 AM
those things are just a pain in the intonation.
yup, amongst other things, they are by far the quickest way to make a guitar go out of tune.

RAV TUX
December 3rd, 2006, 02:11 AM
RAV TUX
you may want to strongly consider losing that tremolo bar unless you are definitely going to use it all ther time.

please explain what the tremolo bar is for....and why I should take it off?

this important because I am thinking of buying a used guitar here is a bit of description:


The guitar is in excellent condition with a few exceptions: On the rear of the lower horn are two tiny dings the largest of which is 1/16th of an inch and the one next to it is smaller and about 2 inches south of the trem cover is another pinhead size ding. The plastic tremelo cover has some buckle rash but it does not carry over to the body.

should I even consider a used guitar?

also one shop I went to kept trying to sell me a Johnson, they said was essentially like a Fender?

ComplexNumber
December 3rd, 2006, 02:15 AM
please explain what the tremolo bar is for....and why I should take it off?
the tremelo bar is an effect. it will make your guitar go out of tune in no time at all.....and if your a beginner, a) your are not likely to be using the tremelo bar except to make random sounds to your mates, b) it gets in the way of your learning of it, and c) you will spend more time retuning your guitar than learning it....and for what?

RAV TUX
December 3rd, 2006, 02:16 AM
the tremelo bar is an effect. it will make your guitar go out of tune in no time at all.....and if your a beginner, a) your are not likely to be using the tremelo bar except to make random sounds to your mates, b) it gets in the way of your learning of it, and c) you will spend more time retuning your guitar than learning it....and for what?

ok where exactely is this bar located?

RAV TUX
December 3rd, 2006, 02:22 AM
ok where exactely is this bar located?

I think this one has it removed? right?

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5183/fd4b3wg4.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5183/fd4b3wg4.jpg)

ComplexNumber
December 3rd, 2006, 02:24 AM
I think this one has it removed? right?


right

Bezmotivnik
December 3rd, 2006, 07:47 AM
right
Actually, the lever is merely removed. The vibrato (not tremolo) may still be active.

I wish I had a nickle for every word I've written about spring vibrato mechanisms in the past twenty-five years.

They are incredible nuisances, originally invented by an Okie motorcycle mechanic, Paul Bigsby, around fifty years ago -- and people have been struggling to make them work ever since by various schemes to overcome their innate engineering problems. They never quite have.

I strongly recommend against a vibrato on a first guitar as they increase setup and tuning problems exponentially, all to little purpose. It is extremely difficult to set up a vintage-style Fender vibrato unit properly.

BTW, as any educated musician will tell you, calling the Fender vibrato device a "tremolo" is grossly incorrect. Tremolo (note spelling) is a variation in volume (or iteration), while vibrato is a variation in pitch.

C. L. Fender, being neither a musician nor an engineer, misnamed these in pure ignorance, and succeeding generations of Fender marketers have continued calling vibratos tremolos out of tradition. :rolleyes:

RAV TUX
December 3rd, 2006, 08:30 AM
Actually, the lever is merely removed. The vibrato (not tremolo) may still be active.

I wish I had a nickle for every word I've written about spring vibrato mechanisms in the past twenty-five years.

They are incredible nuisances, originally invented by an Okie motorcycle mechanic, Paul Bigsby, around fifty years ago -- and people have been struggling to make them work ever since by various schemes to overcome their innate engineering problems. They never quite have.

I strongly recommend against a vibrato on a first guitar as they increase setup and tuning problems exponentially, all to little purpose. It is extremely difficult to set up a vintage-style Fender vibrato unit properly.

BTW, as any educated musician will tell you, calling the Fender vibrato device a "tremolo" is grossly incorrect. Tremolo (note spelling) is a variation in volume (or iteration), while vibrato is a variation in pitch.

C. L. Fender, being neither a musician nor an engineer, misnamed these in pure ignorance, and succeeding generations of Fender marketers have continued calling vibratos tremolos out of tradition. :rolleyes:

I'm curious...would you suggest a different manufacture?

paul cooke
December 3rd, 2006, 09:50 AM
i haven't tried any peavey basses at all.
i'm considering buying a 5 string bass with a high C(instead of a low B) in the next 6-12 months, and i'll probably go for either a warwich or a lakeland. i have no real need for a low B because i won't be going any lower than a low E, the high C seems more logical because i think of scales starting from either E or A string(or higher), and they can often sound really muddy iif not setup right.

woah... you're ranging dangerously into guitar territory there... are you sure you're a bassist? ;)

I'm planning on getting a 5 stringer myself, but I'm going the low route...

Bezmotivnik
December 3rd, 2006, 10:27 AM
I'm curious...would you suggest a different manufacture?
Of guitar or vibrato?

As I said, I just don't recommend any spring vibrato on a first guitar to begin with. It complicates tuning and setup, and a beginning guitarist has no earthly use for one in any case. Keep it simple, especially if you don't plan on buying a very expensive guitar.

I'm also personally no fan of the Stratocaster for about thirty-seven reasons of personal preference, many of which revolve around the Stratocaster's ergonomic design being based on the formal 1954 style of guitar playing ("the right hand ought never touch the guitar...").

For decades, I always kept a Stratocaster around for the rare, occasional recording of the "quack" sound, but when my 100% original pre-CBS became too valuable to play, I stored it and picked up a new American series ash/maple Hardtail (no blasted vibrato!). I had it out last night for the first time in a year or two and played it a bit, or tried. My right hand was continually touching or snagging something it shouldn't and the contoured body kept slipping away from me like a greased pig. I just hate playing Stratocasters. Always have, always will, I imagine. There, I've said it. :rolleyes:

dbbolton
December 3rd, 2006, 10:29 AM
i think what complex number and i were indicating, was that you should opt for a guitfiddle with a fixed bridge, rather than just taking the bar off

in my experience, the fixed bridge/hardtail is always more stable than any type of tremolo bridge (including floyd rose)

a (somewhat older) hardtail strat: http://www.strat-central.com/pics/strats/19811984/heliteb.jpg

RAV TUX
December 3rd, 2006, 10:48 AM
Of guitar or vibrato?

As I said, I just don't recommend any spring vibrato on a first guitar to begin with. It complicates tuning and setup, and a beginning guitarist has no earthly use for one in any case. Keep it simple, especially if you don't plan on buying a very expensive guitar.

I'm also personally no fan of the Stratocaster for about thirty-seven reasons of personal preference, many of which revolve around the Stratocaster's ergonomic design being based on the formal 1954 style of guitar playing ("the right hand ought never touch the guitar...").

For decades, I always kept a Stratocaster around for the rare, occasional recording of the "quack" sound, but when my 100% original pre-CBS became too valuable to play, I stored it and picked up a new American series ash/maple Hardtail (no blasted vibrato!). I had it out last night for the first time in a year or two and played it a bit, or tried. My right hand was continually touching or snagging something it shouldn't and the contoured body kept slipping away from me like a greased pig. I just hate playing Stratocasters. Always have, always will, I imagine. There, I've said it. :rolleyes:

What would you suggest in the way of Guitar manufactures, which is your favorite model?

RAV TUX
December 3rd, 2006, 10:52 AM
btw check out this guitar player:
The Human Beatbox (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A86.OSM7nnJFv7IADhP9Ps8F/SIG=13eeb231o/EXP=1165225915/**http%3a//video.yahoo.com/video/play%3fvid=6eda5331dcafd1e154eeddb315f04479.106759 6%26cache=1)

Bezmotivnik
December 3rd, 2006, 11:23 AM
in my experience, the fixed bridge/hardtail is always more stable than any type of tremolo bridge (including floyd rose)
Assuming it's not defective or defectively mounted, the fixed mount has to be. Consider it from an engineering angle.

A vibrato will always have tuning/repeatability problems to some degree, it's just a matter of minimizing them or trading one kind for another. After more than fifty years of futzing with what is essentially a flawed engineering premise, the vibrato works adequately, but the "miracle cures" have never lived up to the hype.

ComplexNumber
December 3rd, 2006, 01:41 PM
Actually, the lever is merely removed.
thats because RAV_TUX asked if the bar was removed.



woah... you're ranging dangerously into guitar territory there... are you sure you're a bassist? ;)

I'm planning on getting a 5 stringer myself, but I'm going the low route...
yup, but i won't be needing any low B, especially as there is no competition with the synth these days ;).

equal
December 3rd, 2006, 04:16 PM
I'd argue the "buy a cheap one until you're sure" mentality. I'm not saying you should buy a $2000 guitar, but you should aim for a decent quality, or you won't enjoy it. I'd agree with Matthew's post on the first page. Those 4 guitars are all of decent quality. I play in a band, we all have $3000 amplifiers, and we still use those guitars, because they sound and feel fine.

ibanez
December 3rd, 2006, 04:43 PM
I've been playing for alot of years and have several top end guitars but amazingly the one I play most often is my cheapest one an Ibanez RG370

Look here http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/electric_guitars/ibanez/rg370/

Maybe the floating bridge will confuse you but you soon get used to them.
It really is a cracking guitar for the price, I've played and owned a few unbrandeds and really most of them suck big time.

One good thing about a floating bridge is once they are in tune, They STAY in tune.

good luck in your new venture, At times you will feel like giving up, maybe even crying... BUT stick with it the satisfaction you get when you nail something is awesome....

Specialsauce
December 3rd, 2006, 05:29 PM
Go with a schecter. It's my main guitar. I love it.

http://schecterguitars.com/index.asp
Pick one.

paul cooke
December 3rd, 2006, 09:09 PM
btw check out this guitar player:
The Human Beatbox (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A86.OSM7nnJFv7IADhP9Ps8F/SIG=13eeb231o/EXP=1165225915/**http%3a//video.yahoo.com/video/play%3fvid=6eda5331dcafd1e154eeddb315f04479.106759 6%26cache=1)

OK, how did you watch it on Linux? I get a "We are unable to proceed" error

mikerduffy
December 3rd, 2006, 10:26 PM
If you are still looking, my recommendation is that you look for a used one. You can get a higher end instrument for a decent price. The only caveat is that you need to examine it and try it out before you buy (bring an acquaintance who's familiar with guitars, if you can).

Bezmotivnik
December 4th, 2006, 12:22 AM
I'd argue the "buy a cheap one until you're sure" mentality. I'm not saying you should buy a $2000 guitar, but you should aim for a decent quality, or you won't enjoy it.
Agreed, but as I said in another thread, now that guitars are largely machine-made, it's hard to get a really bad one at any price and even harder to get your money's worth on an expensive one. If you shop hard (and I do) it's remarkable what nice axes you can get for near-nothing.

I strongly recommend AGAINST buying used for three basic reasons:

1: If you shop hard, you can get the new axe for about the same price or less than people want for the same piece used. It's remarkable.

2: Don't buy the damage that an incompetent user or "guitar tech" has probably inflicted on the guitar. Most people who work on guitars -- including those who do it for a living -- damage them, often in fatal ways that are non-obvious to a buyer, like damaged trussrods as but one common example.

3: Wear. Aside from the damage inflicted by incompetent servicing and setup, guitars wear out -- particularly the frets which have had their useable lifetimes radically reduced since the introduction of very much harder string alloys. I've seen innumerable guitars that were in pristine shape but that had their frets worn out by heavy players within a year.


I'd agree with Matthew's post on the first page. Those 4 guitars are all of decent quality.
Aside from my prior comments about Stratocasters and vibratos, I would have to disagree on the Ensenada Fenders. I'm seeing really terrible QC on these, and this is directly the result of some management decisions at the Mexican plant. I would say that maybe 30% of the MIMs I see are pretty good. The rest have some level of problems, and so do the MIAs for that matter. Fretwork is usually the culprit -- the worst situation being frets improperly seated with gaps between the fret shoulder and the fingerboard (usually these are filled up with the polyurethane finish on maple fingerboards (which I recommend against, particularly on cheap instruments), so it isn't as apparent with them. This is an irremediable flaw. You can touch up rough fret ends, but due to the way that fretboards are currently being produced, you can't seat these high frets.

In any case, you have to inspect any guitar you buy for manufacturing flaws like this, as price is almost irrelevant to the likelihood of encountering them. All brands and all price ranges have serious quality control problems these days, because buyers are not doing their jobs as smart consumers and the manufacturers can increase profits by lowering QC standards and get away with it in the marketplace. Caveat emptor!

I have no knowledge of the Epiphones as I have no real interest in them.

In the search for solidity and simplicity, I'm something of a partisan for the basic Les Paul Specials and Juniors, or guitars based on these designs.

I would add that bad or good setup does not mean that a guitar you see in the store is a bad or good guitar...but the simpler non-vibrato guitars are much easier to set up later if they need it. Most guitars in stores are not set up after they leave the factory, and the initial factory setup can be bad or the guitar has "settled" in shipping requiring more attention.

RAV TUX
December 4th, 2006, 12:30 AM
OK, how did you watch it on Linux? I get a "We are unable to proceed" error

Sabayon (has all codecs by default)

Patrick-Ruff
January 8th, 2007, 06:05 AM
did you ever make a decision on the guitar RAV TUX?

I've absolutely fallen in love with that Epiphone Les Paul Standard, the Cherry Sunburst, it's just beautiful. I plan to play all of those before I buy of course.

for now, I'm just bettering my skill with the acoustic as I can't afford an electric at the time.

RAV TUX
January 9th, 2007, 09:40 AM
did you ever make a decision on the guitar RAV TUX?

I've absolutely fallen in love with that Epiphone Les Paul Standard, the Cherry Sunburst, it's just beautiful. I plan to play all of those before I buy of course.

for now, I'm just bettering my skill with the acoustic as I can't afford an electric at the time.
still searching...;)

steven8
January 9th, 2007, 09:56 AM
I like the sound of the First Act guitar we got my son for Christmas. You can get a really full, rich tone. Sounds awesome on Walk Don't Run and Whip It!!

Paul Westerberg wouldn't have an autographed edition First Act guitar if they didn't have something going for 'em!!

RAV TUX
January 15th, 2007, 04:36 AM
Update: I went to a local Guitar Center......floor to ceiling Guitars...20 ft. ceilings....amp stations everywhere to try out Guitars....

I want to take my time on this but I see now you have to try them out....

Next stop Chuck Levine's (as per Mackenzie's suggestion);)

ComplexNumber
January 15th, 2007, 04:44 AM
I want to take my time on thisthat really is the only way. pay more attention to how it feels to you when you're playing it than what it looks like or what it offers on paper. and forget about what it looks like and because thats unimportant.

RAV TUX
January 15th, 2007, 05:11 AM
that really is the only way. pay more attention to how it feels to you when you're playing it than what it looks like or what it offers on paper. and forget about what it looks like and because thats unimportant.yes this was my primary focus...not only the guitar but also the amp

Bezmotivnik
January 15th, 2007, 05:22 AM
forget about what it looks like and because thats unimportant.
OK, so, um...you're all right with my recent Toronado, then? :shock:

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/4/3/3/229433.jpg

Seriously rockin' guitar, but jeeze what a face! I'm very fond of it though. Seymour Duncan '59 and Pearly Gates pickups, about as nice a set as you'll find in production pickups.

I ordered one of these Toronados for a less grotesque presentation in case I should have to play out with it. Should be here Thursday:

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/1/1/2/229112.jpg

ComplexNumber
January 15th, 2007, 05:27 AM
yes this was my primary focus...not only the guitar but also the amptake your time and do your research. its your money that you are going to be parting with, so try each and every guitar/amp out first. you should visit lots of sites that give user's feedback on guitars and amps. magazine reviews are less important, and are sometimes of no importance.



OK, so, um...you're all right with my recent Toronado, then?personally, i don't think that much of that guitar's looks at all. in terms of appearance, i like the natural wood look most of all. whast it feels like and how it plays are far more important in the long run.
just to clarify, i didn't mean to say that looks are unimportant. what i meant is, and what i should have said is, looks are relatively unimportant.

Bezmotivnik
January 15th, 2007, 05:42 AM
what i meant is, and what i should have said is, looks are relatively unimportant.
Haw!

I knew that picture would make you reconsider! :mrgreen:

Of course, there's this:

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/5/9/1/417591.jpg

Bezmotivnik
January 15th, 2007, 05:59 AM
i like the natural wood look most of all.
I agree, though I can't say as I go for the raw wood stuff bass geeks were big on for a few years a while back.

Seeing some grain is nice. Though it's far from my fanciest or most expensive bass, this is probably my main one, a straight FJ '54 RI...with that wretched inlay added :rolleyes: :

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/3/0/9/269309.jpg

When I see a long deal, I'll probably pick up one of these koa Telecasters -- lovely woods, Duncan Pro Series pickups:

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/2/3/0/326230.jpg

ComplexNumber
January 15th, 2007, 06:45 AM
Of course, there's this:oooooooooah yes, now that does look tasty 8) as far as guitars go, i think the archtops are the most stylish of all.
something like this (http://www.porcelainband.com/b09.jpg) is nice.



Bezmotivnik
a musical instrument is like a women. ok, looks are relatively important in the beginning. one's wife/girlfriend may well be the most stunning supermodel imaginable, but if, after a while, you can't get along with her and you can't communicate on the same wavelength as her, then she will appear to be less pretty than she is. she will effectively become little more than a face and a body.
on the other hand, if you can communicate on the same wavelength as her and feel comfortable with her, then she will appear to be prettier than she is because of the way you feel about her.
a musical instrument is the same - if you can feel comfortable playing it and you like the way it sounds, its appearance become unimportant.

Bezmotivnik
January 15th, 2007, 07:05 PM
a musical instrument is like a women...

OK, so if I understand you correctly, it's OK if I have a girlfriend with a racing stripe? :-k

Just trying to be clear on this...

Anyhow, I've been through so many guitars and basses in the past four decades that I'm immediately aware of their finer points and hidden flaws. For a few years it was my job -- the way I made my living, buying cheap and flipping them at a good profit. That said, few really stand out as great or terrible. They're just axes. They're usually serviceable, it's just a matter of whether they're a good deal for what they are or not -- most aren't any great bargains unless you're aware and looking for one. Outside of extremes, they all feel about the same to me and I can get good sound out of them one way or the other. The more expensive they are, the less you're getting for your money, usually.

I could flawlessly work all this into your ongoing female analogy, but it might get confusing to the less experienced. ;)

ComplexNumber
January 15th, 2007, 07:18 PM
it's OK if I have a girlfriend with a racing stripe?
if it makes her go faster, then yes :mrgreen:
i don't think we'd best take that train of thought any further :lol:

RAV TUX
January 17th, 2007, 04:18 AM
OK, so if I understand you correctly, it's OK if I have a girlfriend with a racing stripe? :-k

Just trying to be clear on this...

Anyhow, I've been through so many guitars and basses in the past four decades that I'm immediately aware of their finer points and hidden flaws. For a few years it was my job -- the way I made my living, buying cheap and flipping them at a good profit. That said, few really stand out as great or terrible. They're just axes. They're usually serviceable, it's just a matter of whether they're a good deal for what they are or not -- most aren't any great bargains unless you're aware and looking for one. Outside of extremes, they all feel about the same to me and I can get good sound out of them one way or the other. The more expensive they are, the less you're getting for your money, usually.

I could flawlessly work all this into your ongoing female analogy, but it might get confusing to the less experienced. ;)?

doerum
January 17th, 2007, 09:43 AM
Hi

I recommend fender stratocaster (Mexican series), nice looking electric guitar for a reasonable price. Another favorite is ibanez.

guitarmaniac
January 17th, 2007, 10:03 AM
is it just me or are strats the most over-rated guitars ever.
i admit that they are extremely playable but they are just so boring, and they LOOK really cheap.
maybe its just cause I'm a metalhead and its not my style :p .
My favorite guitars (for metal) are Ibanez, ESP, I have an ESP Viper, nothing special but it has a mean sound, and Jackson (I'm drooling over the Mark Morton signature Jackson as i type this).
Wish i had the money to become a conusor ;)

RAV TUX
April 7th, 2007, 09:27 AM
Ok I think I have finally found the guitar I want to buy!

It's an Epiphone Goth G 400

on sale for about $280

about $530 for all accesories....amp, strap, pics, strings, stand, hardcase, video/book, etc

a starter kit, the place also gives lessons for $110 to $130 per month (once a week X 4)

anyway I wanted to post here to see what others thought about the Epiphone?

It looks something like this one:

http://www.caspianrecords.com/ebay/sg1.JPG

%hMa@?b<C
April 7th, 2007, 04:36 PM
Ok I think I have finally found the guitar I want to buy!

It's an Epiphone Goth G 400

on sale for about $280

about $530 for all accesories....amp, strap, pics, strings, stand, hardcase, video/book, etc

a starter kit, the place also gives lessons for $110 to $130 per month (once a week X 4)

anyway I wanted to post here to see what others thought about the Epiphone?

It looks something like this one:

http://www.caspianrecords.com/ebay/sg1.JPG

Epiphones are nice. I have (in addition to my Telecaster) an Epiphone SG special. It plays nice, but I prefer the single coil sound of the tele, so I play it more often. It is a light guitar and the fretboard feels fast. The rosewood fretboard is nice, just make sure to keep it oiled so it doesnt warp. (also out of the water/extreme heat :lolflag:)
Congrats on your decision!

RAV TUX
April 7th, 2007, 07:01 PM
Epiphones are nice. I have (in addition to my Telecaster) an Epiphone SG special. It plays nice, but I prefer the single coil sound of the tele, so I play it more often. It is a light guitar and the fretboard feels fast. The rosewood fretboard is nice, just make sure to keep it oiled so it doesnt warp. (also out of the water/extreme heat :lolflag:)
Congrats on your decision!I decided I didn't want to spend a lot of money on my first guitar, I am most impressed with the amp but I forgot to get the 411 on the amp...there are many of course....

Does anybody have suggestions for an amp?....the one I am looking at is about a $100 but has many advanced capabilities

%hMa@?b<C
April 7th, 2007, 08:39 PM
I decided I didn't want to spend a lot of money on my first guitar, I am most impressed with the amp but I forgot to get the 411 on the amp...there are many of course....

Does anybody have suggestions for an amp?....the one I am looking at is about a $100 but has many advanced capabilities

http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/product/Line-6-Spider-III-15-Modeling-Combo-Amplifier?sku=482276&src=4LL6WXX1
If I had any more money, I would buy one.

ComplexNumber
April 7th, 2007, 09:06 PM
RAV TUX
yeah, the epiphone ain't bad. for a first guitar, you don't really want to buy something thats so cheap that its going to fall apart within 1-2 years. on the other hand, you don't really want to buy a guitar thats expensive. when the time comes when you know more about guitars and more about what guitar is right for you, you've don't want to find out that you've spent lots of money on a guitar that isn't right for you. sometimes it takes quite a while before you find your forte enough to know exactly what you want.

therefore, i think i a guitar about £300(ie 600 USD, depending on how the price of guitars over there compares to here) is about right. its neither too little nor too much.

personally, for a beginner instrument, i would recommend a yamaha. they're good quality, won't fall to bits after about 4 years, and they're competitively priced.

groeswenphil
April 7th, 2007, 09:18 PM
I'm absolutely certain that playing music fends off senility.

Thr Rolling Stones prove my theory.


Never too late to learn.........go ahead........but see that photograph of the guitar with its machine head right next to a radiator? Bad Idea !.

Phil,

p.s. anybody here play my kind of instrument? Anglo Concertina.

RAV TUX
April 8th, 2007, 09:19 AM
RAV TUX
yeah, the epiphone ain't bad. for a first guitar, you don't really want to buy something thats so cheap that its going to fall apart within 1-2 years. on the other hand, you don't really want to buy a guitar thats expensive. when the time comes when you know more about guitars and more about what guitar is right for you, you've don't want to find out that you've spent lots of money on a guitar that isn't right for you. sometimes it takes quite a while before you find your forte enough to know exactly what you want.

therefore, i think i a guitar about £300(ie 600 USD, depending on how the price of guitars over there compares to here) is about right. its neither too little nor too much.

personally, for a beginner instrument, i would recommend a yamaha. they're good quality, won't fall to bits after about 4 years, and they're competitively priced.


Thanks now I am back to square one,....don't know what to buy.:confused:

kvarley
April 8th, 2007, 09:36 AM
Buy it now Link! (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SX-Heavy-Metal-GG3BK-Electric-Flying-V-Guitar-Black_W0QQitemZ290100692381QQcategoryZ2384QQcmdZVi ewItem)
http://www.rondomusic.net/photos/electric/gg3bobk1.jpg

If you need an amp it's probably best going to a shop.

RAV TUX
April 8th, 2007, 09:59 AM
Buy it now Link! (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SX-Heavy-Metal-GG3BK-Electric-Flying-V-Guitar-Black_W0QQitemZ290100692381QQcategoryZ2384QQcmdZVi ewItem)
http://www.rondomusic.net/photos/electric/gg3bobk1.jpg

If you need an amp it's probably best going to a shop.Wow that is quite a radical guitar, but I live in the US.

RAV TUX
April 8th, 2007, 10:02 AM
maybe I should go acoustic first?

slimdog360
April 8th, 2007, 11:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua3hZXfNZOE
get one like this guy!!!!!!!111

Zimmer
April 9th, 2007, 12:19 AM
I'm absolutely certain that playing music fends off senility.

Thr Rolling Stones prove my theory.


Never too late to learn.........go ahead........but see that photograph of the guitar with its machine head right next to a radiator? Bad Idea !.

Phil,

p.s. anybody here play my kind of instrument? Anglo Concertina.

Shouldn't that be 'Fendering' off senility ? .....

I'll get my coat.... :guitar:

Zimmer..... Fendering off senility since 1968 :)

ComplexNumber
April 9th, 2007, 12:51 AM
Thanks now I am back to square one,....don't know what to buy.:confused:
what makes you say that? i said the epiphone is ok for you. guitar prices are meant to be a lot lower than they are here, therefore, the price is about right.




Wow that is quite a radical guitar, but I live in the US.
whats living in the US got to do with it? anyway, you dont want to get a guitar like that unless you want to do some serious shredding. get yourself an ordinary guitar to begin with.

justin whitaker
April 9th, 2007, 01:20 AM
My first guitar was a Peavy Patriot, then I went through a series of Ibanez's (mostly RGs). I've played alot of guitars, and here is what I think you should do:

Go simple.

Forget wild body styles, 7 strings, and complicated electronics configurations: you want a simple 2 (Telecaster, Les Paul) or 3 pickup setup (Stratocaster), with a neck that feels comfortable in your hand.

You want to start off with a hardtail, I would think, to get started: it keeps the cost down, and you can always add a Floyd Rose later, or get a second guitar that has one.

Start with the basics, and work up from there.

RAV TUX
April 9th, 2007, 09:22 AM
what makes you say that? i said the epiphone is ok for you. guitar prices are meant to be a lot lower than they are here, therefore, the price is about right.




whats living in the US got to do with it? anyway, you dont want to get a guitar like that unless you want to do some serious shredding. get yourself an ordinary guitar to begin with.

In your review I felt that the Epiphone would fall apart, about the other guitar, I went to the Ebay link and he only delivers to the UK

willdex
November 5th, 2007, 02:04 AM
Hey, guys, hope I'm not too late. I got Starcaster 2 days ago: it Rocks! Except I cannot find a way for my Ubuntu to recognize it. I've tried numerous settings in Rose Garden. Can you guys help, please?..

blackspyder
November 5th, 2007, 03:02 AM
I love my Strat. Granted i have spent more time fixing it than playing it. (Bought it used from a buddy who "somehow" fried the pickups, smashed it into an amp (bondo fixed the cracked section) and managed to brake the tuner for "e". all in all it was worth the $25 i gave for it. Oh yeah shortly after painting it I broke the tremolo block (playable but it didnt look right w/o the whammy bar) that took 3 months to order from Allparts as the thing is Korean instead of USA made. The color is Metallic Candy Apple Red (old Camera ruined this pic)

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/blackspyder2k2/th_sunp0007-1.jpg (http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/blackspyder2k2/sunp0007-1.jpg)

Most time now though i'll either play my Honher Acoustic or my Rouge Bass.

steveneddy
November 5th, 2007, 03:08 AM
Same as it takes to change a light bulb. All of them. 1 to screw it in and every other single guitarist to say Hendrix did it better.....

I thought the line was:

"Just one. One screws in the light bulb and all the others say, 'Aw, I could have done that' "

willdex
November 5th, 2007, 03:51 AM
Does anybody know how to connect an electric guitar properly so that it's playable and recordable?

samjh
November 5th, 2007, 09:03 AM
If money is no objection, then there are two definitive brands and models:

Fender Telecaster or Stratocaster

The best single-coil electric guitars in the world. Very good for music in the middle-to-high tonal range; sounds light and quick. Versatile guitar, but it has as a "quack", which makes it sound distinctively electric.

Notable users:
David Gilmour (from Pink Floyd)
David Howell Evans (aka. "The Edge" from U2)
Jimmy Hendrix


Gibson Les Paul

The most famous dual-coil (aka. humbucker) guitars. Good for music in the lower-middle or upper-middle tonal range; capable of a lot of power, suitable for heavy metal but also capable of lighter styles.

Notable users:
Billie Joel Armstrong (from Green Day)
Bob Marley
Paul McCartney
Saul Hudson (aka. "Slash")

Ultra Magnus
November 5th, 2007, 01:32 PM
Paul McCartney does play a gibson occasionally, but he's more famous for his violin bass
The Edge plays a Gibson explorer

The first guitar I ever had was a Mexican Fender Strat - I love it so much and I still play it almost every day - Sound and build quality is great and you get to play a proper fender (None of that squire nonsence) at a dead cheap price!

willdex
November 5th, 2007, 07:16 PM
Hey, team. Great responses. Could anybody answer my question? I could really use some help. Maybe there's confusion. I bought Fender Electric Starcaster 2 days ago, and it plays great [my definition of great is anything that produces a decent sound, and I've never had a guitar before; go figure]. What I'm thinking about is actually make a composition using some software. I've got Rosegarden, but it has big trouble recognizing it [rather it's me who has trouble b/c of lack of knowledge]. Where in the Settings should I go to enable the guitar? With keyboards it's different: there are banks, channels for that, MIDIs and all that. Here, it's a problem [for me at least]. Please note: I'm VERY inexperienced and a beginner guitarist [if that's even applicable].

Linuxratty
November 6th, 2007, 12:27 AM
Looking for advice on a good first purchase, would rather spend a bit more for quality, but not go over board.

Looking for good advice,..

I played the guitar when I was a teenager..I started with an acoustic,learned to play by ear and then got a fender Stratacaster...
I highly recommend you play by ear.
I now play the hammer dulcimer and the guitar is a distant memory..But still,it is never too late to learn a musical instrument.

b0ng0
November 6th, 2007, 12:31 AM
Check out Cort guitars. I have one and it's bloody fantastic. They are an American based company that basically have factories in Asia and make guitars for companies like Ibanez who then stick their badge on the guitars and charge lots of money for them.
However, Cort's own range of guitars are very well built, have awesome specs and also come at a cheap price. Check out http://www.cortguitar.com/.
I have a Cort X6 which is a 24-fret guitar and has a floyd-rose locking trem, and I got that from www.guitars.co.uk for £240 I think. Depending on what type of music you want to play with the guitar there are various models, just PM me if you want any more info. :)

Tomosaur
November 6th, 2007, 01:55 AM
Does anybody know how to connect an electric guitar properly so that it's playable and recordable?

Easy - but it depends on how you want to record it. If you want to record it on your computer:

1) Get hold of an ordinary 1/4 inch guitar cable and one of these adaptors (http://www.digital4cheap.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/SFV/31341/vpid/2543313/vpcsid/0/rid/123199). Plug the thin end of the adaptor into your computer's microphone socket, then connect it to your guitar via the 1/4 inch cable.
2) Adjust your computer's microphone and general audio settings so that when you strum your guitar you can hear it relatively clean (it will almost definitely sound worse than your amp - there's not a whole lot you can do about that without investing in some real recording equipment). You may need to apply a 20db boost (you should have this option somewhere in your microphone audio settings). Mostly, just fiddle about until you can get a clean sound that you're happy with.
3) Open your recording software (preferably something with a peak monitor) and just start playing (don't bother recording just yet). Any decent recording software should have a level monitor so you can see how loud you're playing. Occasionally you may find that the bars fill right to the top (some numbers may appear above the bars when this happens). If the bars are constantly in the 'red zone', then you should turn down the volume on your guitar. You should mostly be in the green and yellow area. When it goes into the red, you're in danger of clipping, which is just incredibly annoying if you don't notice it during recording, and will make your recording sound bad. Try all of this with any effects and stuff you want to use, and adjust your levels accordingly.
4) Hit record and go nuts!

If you want to try and get a better sound, you can try connecting your guitar to your amp, then your amp's output (most will have at least a headphone jack) to the computer's microphone input. You can also try using your computer's digital input (but this will generally cut out the quieter sounds, and will make any breaks in your playing sound abrupt).

In terms of quality, you're probably not going to get better quality than using a few high-end microphones to record your amp in a sound-proofed room. If you have the equipment and funds to do that, then do it. Computers, despite their versatility and ability to record, are just not suitable for quality recordings, particularly of live instruments. Synths and keyboards etc are generally fine, since they can use digital output.

I personally prefer the lo-fi sound, but there are limits! Recording guitars directly into the computer can be very frustrating if you're after a particular sound.

willdex
November 6th, 2007, 02:17 AM
Tomosaur, I hear ya! I did everything you've written; I've got the right cable and tried plugging it directly to the PC and through the amp. Amp works, whereas direct access doesn't. However, I just took a closer look at my sound card: everything you can think of in terms of hair, dust and roaches has been and still is there. I don't even know how it's working at its current state. But, the problem I'm having consists of RoseGarden not recognizing the guitar: I hear the sound alright through headphones without even loading RoseGarden [I've adjusted the microphone settings], but can't see it anywhere inside RoseGarden. I simply don't know where to look; it's kind of similar to setting up your keyboard in CuBase or any other program like it: you have to find it, then select the Input, the Output, the MIDI bank, if you don't - you're screwed... Sorry, mate, could you guide me or just point to the right direction?.. I really want all of this to work.

happy-and-lost
November 7th, 2007, 08:26 AM
Sometimes it's really worth splashing out on a nice guitar. I was thinking about getting a cheapish Epiphone, but was eventually persuaded to get one of these:

http://www.guitar.co.uk/documents/158/158-large.jpg
Fender Telecaster Deluxe

Which was quite a bit more expensive than the Epi, but so worth it.

I think Squier do a cheap version of the Tele Deluxe, too.

TomMK
November 7th, 2007, 05:33 PM
well, what did RAV TUX end up buying then?

Zimmer
November 8th, 2007, 11:41 AM
Does anybody know how to connect an electric guitar properly so that it's playable and recordable?
Use a Line 6 Pod or PodXT or similar product.
http://www.line6.com/products/pod/

This allows you to choose your amp and effects and channel them through the Line-in on your computer to whatever recording software you have (Audacity etc.)

voided3
November 8th, 2007, 11:50 AM
If you have an amp you like, a firewire audio interface and a good dynamic mic like a Shure SM57 would work great. The interface gets rid of a lot of the noise you'd get by just plugging into the computer and allows for the use of condenser mics that need phantom power too.

n3tfury
November 8th, 2007, 01:30 PM
well, what did RAV TUX end up buying then?

i want to know this too.