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Old Pink
October 8th, 2006, 02:26 AM
Just been writing this (http://www.moture.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=64) rather lengthy news article, highlighting my (somewhat biased) Zune vs. iPod opinion.

What are your thoughts on the new iPod competition? Will Microsoft better the iPod? Or fail miserably?

CAUSTICROUTER
October 8th, 2006, 02:30 AM
If it comes with BSoD, I'm defiently there.

RAV TUX
October 8th, 2006, 04:36 AM
Are they building the Zune in the FoxConn factory? If not they are light years ahead of iPod already....

can you play ogg vorbis on the Zune?, will you be able to run Linux on Zune?

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7545/image003uc1.jpg (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image003uc1.jpg)

*thread moved from the backyard to the cafe, I abstain from voting. (I wouldn't buy either one)

Albi
October 8th, 2006, 05:10 AM
If someone manages a way to run Linux on it WITH wireless support that allows you to share songs infinitely, then yes.

3rdalbum
October 8th, 2006, 05:22 AM
The Zune isn't going to make much headway. People are going to absolutely HATE how the songs that their friend sent to them disappear after two days. Plus, I don't know if Microsoft will be able to have a big enough marketing campaign to divert marketshare away from Apple.

greggh
October 8th, 2006, 05:25 AM
Gotta love the 3" screen on the Zune and the built in wifi. If the Zune proves to be hackable to get Linux running on it like the ipod, then I would definitely get one.

DoctorMO
October 8th, 2006, 05:26 AM
As long as ipod keeps compatibility with windows xp and vista ipod will be fine.

zune is going to be bought by 'Microsoft can do no wrong' fan boys.

PatrickMay16
October 8th, 2006, 05:29 AM
Microsoft's Zune, definitely. It looks interesting. Microsoft has some pretty neat products.

As long as you can plug it in, and copy songs over to it with whatever file manager, then you can use it on any OS which supports removable USB/firewire/etc disks. So I'd be very happy to have one.

I'd rather have a Zune than an iPod, for sure.

RAV TUX
October 8th, 2006, 05:30 AM
Actually I think the "Verizon Chocolate" may have them both blown away, people will eventually get tired of having to lug around a cell phone and a Zune/iPod....

The future is a combination music player/cell phone(IMHO)....maybe? (I wouldn't buy any of the three options)

DoctorMO
October 8th, 2006, 05:47 AM
I'm still waiting for my hand held spectrum analyser. nothing has been forthcomming so far :-(

As for phones hmm, they already have poor quality cameras in them perhaps poor quality music playing is next? I don't know. I'd like to have a way to learn thai without a cd but to be honest I just don't have much faith in portable devices. they're always going wrong or your loosing the power adapter.

Polygon
October 8th, 2006, 06:17 AM
i shall wait and see what other people reactions are. Im currently looking for a mp3 player that can play .ogg file and ive heard some not so good stuff about the iaudio 6 (mostly lack of customer support)

but its going to take a while to chip away at apples like more then 70% marketshare (it might be more, im just guessing)

PatrickMay16
October 8th, 2006, 06:23 AM
I'm still waiting for my hand held spectrum analyser. nothing has been forthcomming so far :-(

Makes me think... You know what would be really cool? A pitch/tempo/speed control on a hand held player like the Zune. If the Zune had this I would buy it in a heartbeat.
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3886/sndstretchym0.png

Klaidas
October 8th, 2006, 09:01 AM
While Zune's not in the shops yet, I can't decide.
From the info I know now, I'd choose iPod

bluenova
October 8th, 2006, 09:07 AM
I'll stick with my 60Gb Creative Zen Xtra thanks.

metaltailz
October 8th, 2006, 09:46 AM
Notice how the Zune looks really similar to the iPod?

Personally I prefer Sandisk, I've had one of their 256Mb MP3 players for quite a few years now and I have sat on it, dropped it, loaded it with programs/music/linux and it still works perfectly. Thats probably more than you can say about an iPod(I hear they break easily)

But I don't really care, its more about price for me and the iPod too expensive for me.

Hg80
October 8th, 2006, 10:00 AM
TBH im sure Apple have a zune beater up there sleaves, and im sure the next gen ipod will have a widescreen display, as most of the videos/podcasts avaible on itunes are in widescreen format.

Also i here Microsoft will be selling the zune at a lost

Lord Illidan
October 8th, 2006, 10:06 AM
I now use an Apple Ipod Nano...I ditched my Zen Micro (actually exchanged it with my sister) to use Rockbox.

It rocks ***...And on that basis, I choose Ipod over Zune. I don't believe the Zune will be as hackable.

DoctorMO
October 8th, 2006, 10:12 AM
Makes me think... You know what would be really cool? A pitch/tempo/speed control on a hand held player like the Zune. If the Zune had this I would buy it in a heartbeat.

I was talking about a chemistry tool so you can tell what material things are.

angkor
October 8th, 2006, 10:57 AM
Since I have no idea how good / bad the zune will be, I'd buy an iPod.


The future is a combination music player/cell phone(IMHO)....maybe? (I wouldn't buy any of the three options)

Not my future. I apply the unix philosophy to my gadgets. ;)

I want a cell-phone to call people (and maybe a calender app) and I want a music player to listen to music. The sound quality of cell phones when listening to music is usually quite bad when compared to a music player. Maybe that'll change in the future but I doubt it will ever match the quality of a gadget that was specifically designed for music.

Cyfr
October 8th, 2006, 10:59 AM
Im due for a mp3 player. My Sony HD3 is good but its a pain because as far as I know the only way to put music on is to use Windows XP in vmware which I dont really like doing.

The zune looks good, but the wireless is quite usless unless there is gonna be a hack.

I can't decide what to do, ipods look cool, can run linux, but I think the zune looks real good too. Cry. :p

edit: I just found this
"Estimated 12 hr battery life for audio, 3.5 hr video" for zune

Thats awfull.

BWF89
October 8th, 2006, 02:48 PM
Neither. iPod doesn't play Ogg vorbis and I'm pretty sure any product made by Microsoft isn't going to play Ogg. That said I'd rather get a GP2X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X). I have a portable CD player that I never use, I don't like listening to music when I'm out somewhere. I don't like walking around with a pair of headphones over my ears so I can't hear what's going on. I listen to all my music over my stereo at home.

mostwanted
October 8th, 2006, 03:00 PM
I think the Zune looks really good, they even have an Ubuntu-brown version. But...

The Zune is so entangled with DRM that I doubt it would work in Linux.

As an example, any song, whether it uses DRM or or not, is going to contain the special Zune DRM when it's downloaded from a Zune to your harddisk. If the Zune catches on, the rate of DRM'ed content is gonna skyrocket.

Lord Illidan
October 8th, 2006, 03:05 PM
Neither. iPod doesn't play Ogg vorbis and I'm pretty sure any product made by Microsoft isn't going to play Ogg. That said I'd rather get a GP2X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X). I have a portable CD player that I never use, I don't like listening to music when I'm out somewhere. I don't like walking around with a pair of headphones over my ears so I can't hear what's going on. I listen to all my music over my stereo at home.

Then use Rockbox like I do.. cool hardware with mega cool interface + you can play doom

rockbox.org

BWF89
October 8th, 2006, 03:14 PM
Then use Rockbox like I do.. cool hardware with mega cool interface + you can play doom

rockbox.org
If I already had an mp3 player I'd definantly install Rockbox. Thanks for showing this to me, I didn't know such a thing existed. But if I was going to get a device that I could play Mp3/Ogg's on I'd get a GP2X so I can play roms of my favorite Nes/Genesis games.

S1NGH
October 8th, 2006, 03:21 PM
Then use Rockbox like I do.. cool hardware with mega cool interface + you can play doom

rockbox.org
time invested in the right place ;) seen this baby in action, pretty awsome!

Dr. C
October 8th, 2006, 03:31 PM
I think the Zune looks really good, they even have an Ubuntu-brown version. But...

The Zune is so entangled with DRM that I doubt it would work in Linux.

As an example, any song, whether it uses DRM or or not, is going to contain the special Zune DRM when it's downloaded from a Zune to your harddisk. If the Zune catches on, the rate of DRM'ed content is gonna skyrocket.

Not just Linux. The DRM in the Zune will not be compatible with the DRM currently used for Music in Windows and will of course also not be compatible with the DRM in the iPod.

I believe the Zune also adds DRM to all music files before they are shared that allows only three plays with an expiry date of three days.

Lord Illidan
October 8th, 2006, 03:40 PM
time invested in the right place ;) seen this baby in action, pretty awsome!

aye, first thing I did when I got my sister's ipod was sit down and download it...was too excited to stop and hear my music!!!

jeffc313
October 8th, 2006, 04:06 PM
well, i have an iPod, so i guess I am going to stick with that. The zune doesnt sound bad though.

rowanparker
October 8th, 2006, 10:24 PM
It sounds awful.

Only because of DRM.

I have a sony one (HD1) and that is awful. I'm getting a linux friendly one next time.

IYY
October 8th, 2006, 11:03 PM
I like my Zen Micro just fine. It has 6 GB, and cost me $200 over a year ago.

PryGuy
October 9th, 2006, 05:55 AM
None of them...
I've got my iRiverT10 and very happy about it. Funny thing I've bought mine before iRiver signed a partnership with Microsoft and it is detected as an ordinary removable drive when I plug it into my PC. My girlfriend bought the same thing a few months later after iRiver signed a partnership with Microsoft and it is detected like some tricky Windows Media device and won't detect in Linux.:(

Iandefor
October 9th, 2006, 06:02 AM
I voted "neither" because I know absolutely nothing about Zune and more than I want to about iPod.

PryGuy
October 9th, 2006, 06:23 AM
I voted "neither" because I know absolutely nothing about Zune and more than I want to about iPod.I will tell you one thing: as I said above my girlfriend's iRiver is not working with Linux, you may expect the same from Zune. Microsoft if very aggressive about the Linux market so I'm absolutely sure one has to expect this. Zune is not even an option for the Linux users.

Iandefor
October 9th, 2006, 06:46 AM
I will tell you one thing: as I said above my girlfriend's iRiver is not working with Linux, you may expect the same from Zune. Microsoft if very aggressive about the Linux market so I'm absolutely sure one has to expect this. Zune is not even an option for the Linux users. Oh, absolutely. I actually went and looked up Zune on Wikipedia after I posted that. It will support mp3, h.264, and WMA/WMV in terms of video/audio and will use a new form of DRM. I absolutely will not support a product that doesn't support Ogg, as a rule. The DRM just makes it look even less attractive.

PenguinMan
October 9th, 2006, 08:34 AM
I would much rather get an iPod from Apple, as I really like the 2G iPod nano and the new 80 GB iPod (video).

maniacmusician
October 9th, 2006, 02:18 PM
[gag] apple makes me want to kill people.

as for the zune...cant believe thats even an option lol. I have a Creative Zen Touch, but I'd rather have an iAudio.

Rhubarb
October 9th, 2006, 02:40 PM
m$ = Pure Evil
apple = Pure Evil that does not have as much money as m$

So even if you load up rockbox on your ipod, you're still giving money to an evil company. So my answer was neither.

Keep well away from products that are designed around DRM.
Q: Which flavored DRM do you prefer?
A: None!

PryGuy
October 9th, 2006, 03:08 PM
m$ = Pure Evil
apple = Pure Evil that does not have as much money as m$Good definition!;)

S1NGH
October 9th, 2006, 03:51 PM
m$ = Pure Evil
apple = Pure Evil that does not have as much money as m$

So even if you load up rockbox on your ipod, you're still giving money to an evil company. So my answer was neither.

Keep well away from products that are designed around DRM.
Q: Which flavored DRM do you prefer?
A: None!
makes sense to people like me :P but hey you are right about the DRM; i have seen quite a few products, a couple of years back and were completely user friendly with linux, but i can't remember thier names but my friend had a creative player which he said was completely compatible with linux...

overall i would like to see a player designed for linux in a professional way that would give apple and m$ a run for their money! so as it is, fluxbox is alright for me too now.

Rhubarb
October 9th, 2006, 10:17 PM
From what I've heard (and researched a bit) the iAudio (Cowan?) is very good. Plays Oggs and Flacs, and it's a normal mass storage device too. No problems on any Operating System (Ok, maybe not M$DOS, but you get what I mean).

It seems a lot of mp3 player manufactures are getting in bed with m$, making sure their hardware is happy with DRM and m$ media player (I wouldn't call it a media player, perhaps more like a *.wm? player), while ignoring mac users.
... And us Linux users, whom are quite used to being ignored.

.... Unless that is if I start streaking through town holding up my Ubuntu powered laptop - do I have any supporters?

szf
October 10th, 2006, 02:01 AM
None of them...
My girlfriend bought the same thing a few months later after iRiver signed a partnership with Microsoft and it is detected like some tricky Windows Media device and won't detect in Linux.:(

I have a iRiver T10 as a x-grade from a 2G iPod (love the ogg support).

If you want to use said T10 with Linux you're going to have to go on the firmware upgrade odyssey [the following is from memory]:


You will need a 'Gen-u-ine' WinXP OS.
Install some high-level Windows Media Player that requires said Gen-u-ine OS.
D/L the firmware upgrader from iRiver.
Plug in the T10, upgrade the firmware with the one that sees it as a USB mass storage device.
Quit updater program. Use T10 freely on Linux.

Rhubarb
October 10th, 2006, 10:32 AM
You will need a 'Gen-u-ine' WinXP OS.


You forgot the last two points,

Delete the 'Gen-u-ine' WinXP OS.
Give back the space that the 'Gen-u-ine' WinXP OS was using back to Ubuntu.

Jordan Meeter
October 10th, 2006, 04:04 PM
I love my iPod, I wouldn't switch it for anything.

equal
October 10th, 2006, 08:24 PM
I'm gonna stick with my iRiver 320 with Ogg support, and with the Euro firmware that lets me watch movies.

Hell yes.

Old Pink
October 11th, 2006, 05:25 PM
It seems a lot of mp3 player manufactures are getting in bed with m$, making sure their hardware is happy with DRM and m$ media player (I wouldn't call it a media player, perhaps more like a *.wm? player), while ignoring mac users.
... And us Linux users, whom are quite used to being ignored.

That'll stop now. For years Microsoft have sponsored what they think is the next iPod killer, and now they've got their own, the amount of new brand MP3 players being manufactuered will drop significantly.

The Zune will suck, it's not even Mac compatible. :(

szf
October 12th, 2006, 04:30 AM
You forgot the last two points,

Delete the 'Gen-u-ine' WinXP OS.
Give back the space that the 'Gen-u-ine' WinXP OS was using back to Ubuntu.


Many I'm sure would love to follow thru with that... but the current market (certainly in the U.S.) dictates that you use a closed-source system (WinXP) to open up your mp3 player to a open-source system (anything else). It's unfortunately very hard to motivate the geeks-as-the-masses when we, like everyone else, just want to use the device for what we use it for... :-k

Now I'm going back to my Cory Doctorow .ogg covering DRM...

Polygon
October 12th, 2006, 05:15 AM
if only ipods could play oggs natively that would be real nice

cause i dont like rockbox cause it looks horrible and controls horrible at least on ipod minis

and the only two players that i know that play ogg are the iriver and the iaudio (ive heard bad things about the iaudio, like nonexistant customer support... etc)

szf
October 13th, 2006, 02:17 AM
if only ipods could play oggs natively that would be real nice
I agree - but it's not going to happen from Apple... Rockbox is the only choice and you've already stated your feelings there ;).

Btw, my 2G iPod isn't a Rockbox candidate, so I'm still on Apple firmware 1.3...



and the only two players that i know that play ogg are the iriver and the iaudio (ive heard bad things about the iaudio, like nonexistant customer support... etc)

I took the plunge with $90 USD on an iRiver T10... plays .ogg (my secondary/tertiary objective) and never needed direct customer service support save a mix of user forums...

We are the generation DIY after all, right Polygon? ;)

S1NGH
October 13th, 2006, 12:58 PM
That'll stop now. For years Microsoft have sponsored what they think is the next iPod killer, and now they've got their own, the amount of new brand MP3 players being manufactuered will drop significantly.

The Zune will suck, it's not even Mac compatible. :(

probably M$ will be like buy Windows Vista and get a Zune free :P

aysiu
November 1st, 2006, 09:56 PM
Just saw this "news story": Survey says: 58% of iPod owners "likely" to buy a Zune (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/11/1/5826)

The comments on the story are great... lots of speculation as to how they got 58% of people surveyed to respond that way.

chaosgeisterchen
November 2nd, 2006, 12:21 AM
I have to admit that I ordered myself an iPod several days ago. 8 gig nano. I have found no promising competitors with this size and the bunch of features the iPod gives you.

NeoGreen
November 2nd, 2006, 12:59 AM
I am a fan of the iPod and it seems that Zune may be a good device, but I don't think I am ready to invest money on a device that isn't out yet.

puppy
November 2nd, 2006, 02:11 PM
My major concern about the Zune (other than the fact that with their very closed-shop attitude you will have no choice but to use MS software to access it - expect linux support sometime/maybe/never) is the way it implements DRM.

You will be familiar with this if you listen to any of Leo Laporte's podcasts but basically the Zune will apply DRM rules to *all* files transferred from it, even if the author of those files (Leo for instance) explicitly states that they be freely transferrable person to person, ad infinitum. So that Security Now podcast you transferred to a friend will only be transferrable two more times... in direct contravention of the licence that the audio file was distributed under. MS are really taking the mickey this time, I'm not sure how much lower they can stoop TBH ](*,)

ljpm
November 20th, 2006, 02:07 PM
I wonder how long before someone comes up with a virus or popup ad for the Zune, spread by the squirt feature.

chaosgeisterchen
November 20th, 2006, 02:22 PM
DRM is like a neverending plague. I can repeat that also ad infinitum.

Dual Cortex
November 20th, 2006, 02:31 PM
I'm not a music person, but if for some reason I were to get one for free and I had to choose between both, I would choose Microsoft's Zune.

Kingfield
November 28th, 2006, 07:14 AM
no way man, zune fails. iPod is great. Even b44 i had one it was a rip, got one like 2 days ago, LOVE IT.