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BWF89
September 29th, 2006, 10:15 PM
The report being released today -- which was largely paid for by Armey's think tank with some funding from NBC Universal and the MPAA -- takes the previous study, conducted by consulting firm L.E.K., and applies a model used by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis to calculate the potential ripple effect of those lost sales, factoring in lost jobs, worker earnings and tax revenue.

Given those facts, the study says, movie piracy causes a total lost output for U.S. industries of $20.5 billion per year, thwarts the creation of about 140,000 jobs and accounts for more than $800 million in lost tax revenue.

"In other words, let's say people are forgoing paying for $6 billion in movies by downloading or consuming illegal goods but end up spending that $6 billion on iPods, computers and HDTV sets on which to watch the movies, which leads to $25 billion in job creation in the computer/software/consumer electronics field," Jason Shultz, staff lawyer at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, wrote in an e-mail.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/28/AR2006092801640.html

NoTiG
September 29th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Well there is a big logical error with the study.... Holly wood assumes that each and every piracy is a lost sale. which isn't true. People who pirate things generally wouldn't have bought whatever it was they pirated in the first place. so its not a lost sale. The real figure is somewhere perhaps 1-10% of that amound they calculate i think. Which is offset as well by increased awareness of people who do pirate it... etc....

croak77
September 29th, 2006, 10:30 PM
Both arguments are flawed. I don't think people who illegally download movies are going to use their money to buy HDTV's but not DVD's.

BWF89
September 29th, 2006, 10:41 PM
Both arguments are flawed. I don't think people who illegally download movies are going to use their money to buy HDTV's but not DVD's.
Even if they aren't buying electonic equipment to play their pirated material their still going to spend it on something. Which benefits the economy. Most Americans are too stupid to save their money and thus go into debt so it's not as if the $30 they didn't spend on buying a legal copy of their favorite DVD is going to be going into their retirement savings and won't stimulate the economy for decades to come. Their going to spend it on food, clothes, lawn mowers, house decorations, toys for their kids, Christmas gifts, etc.

Also, if Hollywood didn't spend as much producing a movie they wouldn't have to sell as many copies of a movie to makeup for the costs of producing it and than make a profit. They could cut out alot of the frilly extras like needless special effects to spice a movie that sucks.

Example: StarWars A New Hope (the first movie) cost $11 million to make. StarWars Revenge of the Sith (the last movie) cost $130 million to make. The original StarWars trilogy cost alot less to make and was better than the new movies and they did it for so much less. They didn't have anywhere near the special effects of the new movies but people even to this day don't care and copies of the original trilogy are still selling.

croak77
September 29th, 2006, 10:55 PM
Even if they aren't buying electonic equipment to play their pirated material their still going to spend it on something.

That's only if they were going to spend that money on DVD's to begin with.

x64Jimbo
September 29th, 2006, 11:45 PM
I'm so glad this article was published. It reminded me that I had a bunch of catching up to do on Torrenting!

DoctorMO
September 29th, 2006, 11:58 PM
Even if they aren't buying electonic equipment to play their pirated material their still going to spend it on something. Which benefits the economy. Most Americans are too stupid to save their money and thus go into debt so it's not as if the $30 they didn't spend on buying a legal copy of their favorite DVD is going to be going into their retirement savings and won't stimulate the economy for decades to come. Their going to spend it on food, clothes, lawn mowers, house decorations, toys for their kids, Christmas gifts, etc.

If I were to be an crule socialist I'd say that the only time money is truly lost to the economy in a way which does not stimulate growth is when it goes into huge bank accounts of fat cats and corperations. no the money is invested and is technicaly still doing something somewhere (maybe) but it's stupid money because you don't have 300 million people each spending a dollar on something they like you've got one fat bloke deciding what to spend his 300 million on.

I'd say $1 in the hands of every person is worth more to the economy than billions in the hands of any one entity. and this goes for govenments too. but too many people believe the dream of owning lots of money will sort their human problems when all it will buy you is something expensive to go along with your human flaws.

maniacmusician
September 30th, 2006, 12:03 AM
i doubt money will fix my problems lol, but it sure would help satisfy my ache for good music equipment

Kateikyoushi
September 30th, 2006, 12:10 AM
How does it effect Hollywood that these days we can watch remake of remakes ?
I just watch them for like 1$ online, if they were to make somthing which would worth to go to the cinema I would be there.

Stop making stupid excuses and start making content.

BWF89
October 7th, 2006, 01:46 AM
How does it effect Hollywood that these days we can watch remake of remakes ?
I just watch them for like 1$ online, if they were to make somthing which would worth to go to the cinema I would be there.

Stop making stupid excuses and start making content.
They should start playing some of the older movies in the theaters. I bet movies like George Romero's zombie films (especially in my area) would do very good even if they've been out for a few decades.

Omnios
October 7th, 2006, 01:49 AM
Any thing based on lost revenue based on what people are pireting is FUD. Basicly there saying that all the pireted copies are revenue when the fact remains that most people who piret will not buy the product in the forst place.

djsroknrol
October 7th, 2006, 02:07 AM
I think hollywood should blame the oil companies if they need to talk about something that effects the economy....

Charge someone on a budget more for something, and they have that much less to spend on anything else. I think that the price of oil qualifies...groceries qualify...utilities qualify, but not the price of a movie ticket.

vayu
October 7th, 2006, 02:20 AM
Large Corporations controlling the majority of the wealth and resources (human and material) are the biggest detriment bar none to the economy, the environment and social structure.

KiwiNZ
October 7th, 2006, 02:28 AM
Of course piracy affects the economy. It affects sales ... profits... salaries...job security... spending power in other words the economy.

3rdalbum
October 7th, 2006, 10:52 AM
I don't know whether piracy affects the US economy, but it definately doesn't affect the Australian economy. Any negative effects from the lost sales of DVDs and CDs are offset by the airlines, who make a fortune taking people to Bali to buy pirated DVDs and CDs.

Kateikyoushi
October 7th, 2006, 11:48 AM
They should start playing some of the older movies in the theaters. I bet movies like George Romero's zombie films (especially in my area) would do very good even if they've been out for a few decades.

I concur, I would surely be there to see some of my old favorites in the cinema which I never had the chance to see there.

I am a big fan of BW films.

I wish we had a cinema where could watch old films with matching interior design and costumes on the workers.

henriquemaia
October 7th, 2006, 12:08 PM
What I would like to see was a REAL study on what is the profile of a typical "downloader". Who does it? What age group do it more? Why they do it? What is their average annual income? etc.

BWF89
October 7th, 2006, 02:26 PM
I concur, I would surely be there to see some of my old favorites in the cinema which I never had the chance to see there.

I wish we had a cinema where could watch old films with matching interior design and costumes on the workers.
In Pittsburgh you their still playing The Rocky Horror Picture Show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rocky_Horror_Picture_Show) in some theaters around Halloween. It's a 70's musical about a couple who's car breaks down and they walk to an old house to phone for help but the house is full of transvestites. I've never been to it but from what my parents say is people dress up for the parts, sing along with the movie, squirt eachother with squirtguns, throw toilet paper at the screen, and a whole bunch of other freaky stuff. The audience participation is supposidly half the act.

weasel fierce
October 7th, 2006, 05:08 PM
I'd pay to see Aliens on the big screen :)


As to the posited theory, it only holds true if the guy that downloads say, 4 albums and 2 movies a month, takes that 100 dollars or however much, and sticks it in his pillow.

Odds are he is spending it at mcdonalds or some other place, thus still putting his money in circulation.

Mihkal
October 7th, 2006, 05:41 PM
I'd pay to see Aliens on the big screen :)


As to the posited theory, it only holds true if the guy that downloads say, 4 albums and 2 movies a month, takes that 100 dollars or however much, and sticks it in his pillow.

Odds are he is spending it at mcdonalds or some other place, thus still putting his money in circulation.

But that hundred dollars or however much, is NOT going to hollywood.
...and that is why they are complaining.
Hollywood doesn't care about the entire economy, just their own revenue. [-(

Also, there is a theater near me that plays old movies...I go there often. :cool:

henriquemaia
October 7th, 2006, 05:43 PM
In Pittsburgh you their still playing The Rocky Horror Picture Show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rocky_Horror_Picture_Show) in some theaters around Halloween. It's a 70's musical about a couple who's car breaks down and they walk to an old house to phone for help but the house is full of transvestites. I've never been to it but from what my parents say is people dress up for the parts, sing along with the movie, squirt eachother with squirtguns, throw toilet paper at the screen, and a whole bunch of other freaky stuff. The audience participation is supposidly half the act.

Rocky Horror rocks! It's so funny to see the whole performance (and to be part of it).

djsroknrol
October 7th, 2006, 07:01 PM
But you have to go see it in a venue that serves alcohol...;)

sieveboat
August 21st, 2008, 08:55 PM
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't agree with piracy. But I can't help but challenge the premise that it hurts the economy to have people not blow disposable income on relatively trivial things.

Tom
<a href="http://www.westsiderentals.com/southerncalifornia/apartments.cfm/West-Hollywood-Apartments/">West Hollywood Apartments </a>

Dremora
August 21st, 2008, 09:06 PM
They're the industry, of course they're going to say it affects jobs (it doesn't), they think of it like this.

If a movie theater holds 100 people, and 1,000 people "pirate" their movie instead of going to the theater, then ten movie theaters will go out of business, even though there may have been 100,000 movie theaters.

Also applied to DVD:

Everybody in the world that can't afford to buy every $20 DVD we put out that they may want to watch one time is causing bad things to happen to the economy.

(ignoring the fact that the rental business may actually have doubled)

The movie industry is using a typical broken window fallacy with themselves cast as the little boy who threw the stone...

Anyway, I found a video about the industry's take on piracy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

SunnyRabbiera
August 21st, 2008, 09:10 PM
Feh I tell you piracy is very appealing to me right now, these fat cat worthless companies dont deserve a dime from me...
They want to produce crap and leave anything of high quality in the mud, piracy is giving them what they deserve.

Dremora
August 21st, 2008, 09:13 PM
Feh I tell you piracy is very appealing to me right now, these fat cat worthless companies dont deserve a dime from me...
They want to produce crap and leave anything of high quality in the mud, piracy is giving them what they deserve.

Exactly.

These movies anymore have so many product placements (I, Robot), and no real story anymore, if they want to know why their sales are declining, maybe it's because they're offending people.

I took a bite and went to see that Indiana Jones: Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, and I really had to hold my nose to make it through the whole thing.

KiwiNZ
August 21st, 2008, 09:16 PM
Lets not give CPR to a long deceased thread on a topic thrashed to hades and back .

And probably fractures the CoC