48 hours with ubuntu article

[dermotti]

http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2005/04/11/ubuntu

Very interesting. I makes you think, what a dumbass and makes you wanna slap the fool for being so stupid.

Then he cleans up his review with that he is an interface designer working for Mark Shuttleworth.

Clever indeed! Digress!

[dermotti]

I know this guy is taking an "outside the box" look as a non technical person, while ill agree alot of things need to be more intuitive, alot of this is ridiculous

-#24 The login screen uses the term “reboot”. (My shoes are fine as they are, thanks.

Unfortunatly reboot is a word you should know if you use a computer, its in the dictionary for god sakes.

-#28 When returning after locking the screen, the interface for logging in again is completely different from that for logging in normally, for no apparent reason.

So you know youve locked the screen and not logged out?

-#30 The same interface shows the current time, for no apparent reason. (Perhaps it should show the current temperature too.)

To tell the time without having to unlock the computer? Perhaps the same reason most cars will allow you to enable the clock without starting the engine? Seems like a pretty good reason to me.

-#34. That alert has a button which misspells “Shut Down” as “Shutdown”.

Whats wrong with shutdown? it is in the english dictionary and it fits the context of the situation. That is not a misspelling! Come on!

-#36 Items can’t be renamed by clicking on their names and typing.

In any interface ive used, you really can only assign one reaction to a click. In ubuntus case it is to open the file, not rename it. You could assign the click to rename it , but then it wouldnt open. Maybe if the mouse could read our minds it would know the proper action. That technology is at least 5 years out



ugghh ill go on as i re-read this.....he has some good points, and alot of bad points.

[dermotti]

#10 … A foot icon? What’s that about, anyway? Ubuntu’s logo isn’t a foot.

Thats called a 3rd party app my friend. If you open your IBM computer your hardrive will probably have a Seagate or Hitchachi logo on it.


ugghh

[dermotti]

20: A lot of technical gibberish is displayed when the computer starts up, and when it shuts down.

All computers have technical gibberish when you start them up, even ones without operating systems.

[dermotti]

23. The login screen uses the term “username”.

Again, whats wrong? This is a dictionary word.


1 entry found for username.
us·er·name Audio pronunciation of "username" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (yzr-nm)
n.

A sequence of characters, different from a password, that is used as identification and is required when logging on to a multiuser computer system, LAN, bulletin board system, or online service. Also called user ID.

[electroglas]

I was reading the article thinking "what an anal turd (that is mostly right)" but then he reveals his purpose in life and this put all of his complaints into perspective .

Although, some of his ideas are a little questionable, its great to have someone like this working on the interface. This guy has very good ideas for making the interface much more consistent and user friendly and I for one am very impressed....

I hope he has a very significant effect on Ubuntu.



BTW - Does anyone know how Canonical and this guy hooked up? Is he just another voluntary developer or is he a pro?

[Starchild]

Yes, I've read that. He makes some very good points as well.

[sas]

#10 … A foot icon? What’s that about, anyway? Ubuntu’s logo isn’t a foot. Thats called a 3rd party app my friend. If you open your IBM computer your hardrive will probably have a Seagate or Hitchachi logo on it.

A new user doesn't care that it's a 3rd party app, they probably associate the desktop as something that represents Ubuntu - this particularly effect windows switchers used to the window flag on the start button. A new user doesn't see his hard drive, so that point is moot.




#20: A lot of technical gibberish is displayed when the computer starts up, and when it shuts down.

All computers have technical gibberish when you start them up, even ones without operating systems.

Mine doesn't....It shows a "splash" screen from switching on until GRUB starts




23. The login screen uses the term “username"
Again, whats wrong? This is a dictionary word.




-#24 The login screen uses the term “reboot”. (My shoes are fine as they are, thanks.

Unfortunatly reboot is a word you should know if you use a computer, its in the dictionary for god sakes.



-#34. That alert has a button which misspells “Shut Down” as “Shutdown”.

Whats wrong with shutdown? it is in the english dictionary and it fits the context of the situation. That is not a misspelling! Come on!

Just because it's in the dictionary doesn't mean that people know it. You shouldn't expect people to learn unneccesary jargon when using a computer. "Restart" makes far more sense than "reboot" does, and people will usually realise what it means straight away, rather than having to go and find a dictionary.




-#28 When returning after locking the screen, the interface for logging in again is completely different from that for logging in normally, for no apparent reason.

So you know youve locked the screen and not logged out?

Hmm, I agree with you that the interface should differentiate between the two, I'd favour using the login screen but with a monitor with a padlock or some text explaining..




-#30 The same interface shows the current time, for no apparent reason. (Perhaps it should show the current temperature too.)To tell the time without having to unlock the computer? Perhaps the same reason most cars will allow you to enable the clock without starting the engine? Seems like a pretty good reason to me.

I think I agree with you on that. Stereos and VCR/DVD player also do that in "standby" mode, which is perhaps roughly equivalent to being logged/locked out



-#36 Items can’t be renamed by clicking on their names and typing.
In any interface ive used, you really can only assign one reaction to a click. In ubuntus case it is to open the file, not rename it. You could assign the click to rename it , but then it wouldnt open. Maybe if the mouse could read our minds it would know the proper action. That technology is at least 5 years out

I think he means clicking on the icon should do the action associated with the icon, but clicking on the text adjacent to the icon should edit the text. Probably means you'll have to have huge icons though to get the user to easily click in such a small area. I'm unsure on this one..

[KiwiNZ]

His item 20 has a point , many distros are hiding the gibberish eg Fedora, Mandrake.
I think it would be a good feature for Ubuntu, where a click will allow the user to see a verbose version should they so desire to see gibberish.

[wmcbrine]

Thanks for the link... I agree, it's rubbish. I hope very few of these ideas are implemented in Ubuntu.

I find objectionable his misuse of the word "incorrect" to mean, apparently, "done in a way I don't like". I see nothing obviously superior about his preferences, in most cases, and many of them are nitpicking on an absurd level. If there's any basis besides his personal preference, then he needs to cite it.

Overall, the whole thing is written from an extremely theoretical "usability" perspective that doesn't relate to any real computer that has ever existed. And in particular, despite a few passing references to Mac and Windows, the article has essentially no value for anyone wishing to compare Ubuntu with other OSes. What the target audience is, I can't really imagine. (Ubuntu developers? I don't picture them finding it any more persuasive than I did.)

[abovett]

Thanks for the link... I agree, it's rubbish. I hope very few of these ideas are implemented in Ubuntu.
I wouldn't go as far as to say it's rubbish - he has some good points, but some bad points as well.



I find objectionable his misuse of the word "incorrect" to mean, apparently, "done in a way I don't like".

I agree - just because he's a "usability expert" does't mean he's right! In particular I totally disagree about his preference for a Mac style single menu at the top of the screen. I find it slows me down a lot and is confusing - the "distance vs target area" thing certainly doesn't apply (the menu entries are about the same size) and having to click on the applicable window to bring it to focus before being able to use it's menu is slow and tedious (not to mention confusing for novices). Personally (and this is purely personal opinion) I'd much prefer something closer - I dislike having to move the mouse further than I have to as I find this is what slows me down.

I also disagree with his point about having icons and text on menus. It's true that it can take slightly longer on a short menu to pick out the correct item because your eye tries to decode both. However, on a long menu, and when looking for a known item, your eye can locate the correct icon _faster_ than the text (assuming of course that the icons are similarly distinct). Also, of course, speed is not the only issue here. Icons make the interface more "comfortable" and less intimidating than pure text.

Oh - another personal point of view - he may dislike caps lock and insert, but I use them! I know some people dislike them, but they should at least be available as an option.

I do think he has something to contribute but I think he's a little too opinionated (it ought to be done _my_ way) to be a truly good interface designer.

(By the way, I have considerable experience in interface design and usability, and spend a lot of time with non technically literate computer users, trying to help them understand the often incomprehensible Windows interface, so like him I feel I can comment with some authority!)

[sas]

His item 20 has a point , many distros are hiding the gibberish eg Fedora, Mandrake.
I think it would be a good feature for Ubuntu, where a click will allow the user to see a verbose version should they so desire to see gibberish.
It's in consideration for Breezy I believe. Here's an unofficial one: Splashy (http://wiki.nanofreesoft.org/index.php/UsplashHowDoesItWork)

[Gianni Exile]

I was reading the article thinking "what an anal turd (that is mostly right)" but then he reveals his purpose in life and this put all of his complaints into perspective .

Although, some of his ideas are a little questionable, its great to have someone like this working on the interface. This guy has very good ideas for making the interface much more consistent and user friendly and I for one am very impressed....

I hope he has a very significant effect on Ubuntu.

BTW - Does anyone know how Canonical and this guy hooked up? Is he just another voluntary developer or is he a pro?
That's completely ridiculous.

Either the man's claims stand on their own merits, or they don't regardles of his employer.

Ubuntu has more serious issues than what this man is worried about, though it's fine to have someone worried about such things.

My "setup log", to get all my hardware and software working comfortably, is over 400 lines long. For stock Debian, it's about the same length. So where's the improvement? Not to mention I ran a single Debian installation for 6 years straight, never wiping the disk, and having everything other than non-standard device drivers upgraded automatically, including kernels. People have different priorities. For me speed, stability, the ability to use multiple versions of compilers etc are the important things. For the past 3 days, Ubu's been okay, but we shall see....

I think the review is bogus because the reviewer didn't appear to do any real work, nor did he distinguish between applications, the OS, etc. Is Ubu all these things? Not to me: it's a pre-compiled kernel with "testing"-quality Debian packages with security patches.

I wonder why he didn't run Emacs and complain that Ctrl-C doesn't do the "copy" operation!!

[daniels]

While he works for Canonical, mpt doesn't work on Ubuntu; he works on Launchpad (the suite of web applications).

[jdong]

http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2005/04/11/ubuntu

This review was made by a Canonical interface designer, and contains 69 complaints about the general design of Ubuntu. It obviously comes from an inexperienced Linux user.

Though many points are invalid, there ARE a number of good points to consider, such as NTP sync when network connection fails.

[totalshredder]

Do people feel a burden to say negitive things? Seriously, the guy could post another 20 or so praises. Fun read though :)

[accuser]

It is funny, but you sometimes only realise the amount of effort you expend overcoming the shortfalls of your working environment when someone looks over your shoulder and asks you why you put up with that.

From the article:

I recognize that Ubuntu is perhaps the most usable Linux-based operating system yet. I recognize also that it has improved rapidly over the past year. And it is reassuring for me to be running Free Software, where — if all else fails — I can hire a local geek to fix a bug for me instead of being reliant on the whim of Canonical. But Ubuntu still has a long way to go.

Ubuntu is certainly the best Linux-based operating system I have ever used, and I have used not a few. However, I think we all agree that there is still a lot of work to do.

The only concern I have about this article is that it won't get to the right audience. Sure, a lot of Ubuntu users may well read this, but what about the developers producing the software that Ubuntu builds its packages from?

BTW, I hope the author logged all these bugs!

[SilvioTO]

I think this article is advantage for developer of ubuntu. However the author is drastic and exaggerate in many points I think :?

Hi!! :grin:

[asimon]

I always find such things from "inexperienced Linux users" rather interesting to read. They have a certain kind of perspective to see things which we geeks, after years of using Linux, often have lost. We may have adapted to rather stupid and unlogical things which they see instantly as what they are.

Regarding user interfaces I too think that Linux/Gnome/KDE/etc. have very large room for improvements and hope that more good professional interface designers help to fix things. This kind of people seems to be rare in Linux communities.

[Glanz]

The author is a "nit picker"... Reading that article made me think of a monkey patiently picking the fleas out of the hair of another simian of a different species.

[jensyt]

I hate to play moderator here, since I'm obviously not at liberty to take such a role. But I suggest carrying on further conversation in a thread about the same article: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=26459

Or perhaps defer all posters from that one to in here.

And on topic: I'm reading as we speak. I do agree with others, though, that many of the points are somewhat shaky.

[escuchamezz]

surely nobody can be that stupid, although interface designers are typically dumbasses

[MaZiNgA]

I always find such things from "inexperienced Linux users" rather interesting to read. They have a certain kind of perspective to see things which we geeks, after years of using Linux, often have lost. We may have adapted to rather stupid and unlogical things which they see instantly as what they are.

Regarding user interfaces I too think that Linux/Gnome/KDE/etc. have very large room for improvements and hope that more good professional interface designers help to fix things. This kind of people seems to be rare in Linux communities.
I agree 100% with asimon. Sometimes its very helphul to see things from the "Inexperienced" perspective.

BTW: Why on earth don't we just split the screen at four gigantic buttons that read "TV", "Internet", "Media", and "Apps"? This is actually the first things that pops to my mind when I begin thinking like my grandma ;)

[Knome_fan]

Though he certainly has some valid points, he could have summed up a lot of his drivel:

OMG!!11!!11 It's not OSX!!1!!11 tHe suX0r!11!!11

[fat_larry]

I found the article refreshing. It's not often you hear an intelligent analysis (ok some would say anal) of a popular piece of software. I have to say I agree with a lot of the points raised. It's particularly nice to hear mention of Fitt's Laws which I haven't heard mentioned since my HCI module at university!

Yes he is being nit-picky, but isn't that the definition of testing? Being thorough?

Some people need to learn that critisism is A Good Thing (TM) which we can all learn from. I hope this article continues to raise eyebrows and I welcome more of the same ilk!

[dataw0lf]

The author is a "nit picker"... Reading that article made me think of a monkey patiently picking the fleas out of the hair of another simian of a different species.

Which is exactly what we need. 'Negative' reviews aren't necessarily a bad thing, unless they're just trolling. Nit picking, however, is very, very good. It also supports the notion that Ubuntu is pretty polished, we just have to clean up the little stuff now. For a distro that is only 6 months old or so, that's incredible.

[accuser]

We can either bitch about this guy becuase he had trouble using a system he was unfamiliar with, and took the time to document his findings, or we can take an interest in understanding how we might improve his experience, and therefore the experience of ourselves and others, in Breezy Badger (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=26555).

For me, the fact that he actually captured all of the issues that he had - and yes, he may have been a bit anal, but that is what I look for in quality assurance - is invaluable.

It is all too easy for experienced users to find ways of working around situations. We know the quirks of the system, and we learn how to avoid them or put up with them. The thing is, we'd be better off fixing the problem, or telling someone who can.

[UbuWu]

I think it is actually a very good writing with a lot of possible very well improvements. Too bad that a lot of sites link to it saying it is a review, which it is clearly not.

[UbuWu]

And this was only the first 48 hours... Imagine what great improvements he comes up with in the next few days or weeks... Very good article.

[jdong]

"Bootup scrolls lots of technical gibberish...."


Hmm, I'm sorry, if you'd rather have a big multi-colored flag covering up the reason why your system froze at bootup, we can arrange for that :)

[skoal]

I actually found his comments quite informative, if you look at it from his perspective.

1. At the very top, he draws the comparison to Windows and OSX, not another Linux distro. This is actually encouraging. Isn't it? We are talking about end user friendliness in the desktop 'market'. Aren't we?

2. At the very bottom, he cites his employer in the Disclaimer. The fact he makes these constuctive observations about his own product is quite encouraging, especially in relation to 1. This implys a lack of 'satisfaction' with the current implementation. Perfectionism even. I like to see that and expect the same myself from anything I do.

3. Everything in between 1 and 2 (the introduction and disclaimer, respectively) should be read in context with those in mind.

I read the majority of his observations (and skimmed just a little bit of it). I agree with all of it, if I were a Windows or Mac OSX user. I agree with none of it if I were using another distro other than Ubuntu. So, taken in that context, I find it very promising indeed that we have such dedicated perfectionists working to equate Ubuntu with other market desktops. Quite pleased actually.

[TheOtherShoe]

37. By default, when opening a folder window, the parent window closes automatically. This surprises the sort of people who will never be confident enough to investigate Nautilus’s preferences, and who expect things on their own computer to stay where they left them. It is unfixably inconsistent — it does not happen for the Computer window, or for the Desktop, or for opening documents rather than folders. And it dramatically reduces the usefulness of the file manager for managing files, as it is extremely difficult to get source and destination folders open simultaneously.
I definitely agree with this point.

[dermotti]

I actually found his comments quite informative, if you look at it from his perspective.

1. At the very top, he draws the comparison to Windows and OSX, not another Linux distro. This is actually encouraging. Isn't it? We are talking about end user friendliness in the desktop 'market'. Aren't we?

Any person can nitpick the OS they are not used to, a linux user could tear OSX and Windows a new ***hole, and vice versa

[dermotti]

Just because it's in the dictionary doesn't mean that people know it. You shouldn't expect people to learn unneccesary jargon when using a computer. "Restart" makes far more sense than "reboot" does, and people will usually realise what it means straight away, rather than having to go and find a dictionary.


Comprehension of the word was not an issue with shutdown and username, he clearly said it was misspelled, which it cleary was not.

[skoal]

I've developed/managed on a GUI design team before with my old company. Believe me, this guy is far more competent than some I've worked with. 'Nitpicking' is his job. 'Stupid' mistakes are his paycheck. That's why we hire people like him for this purpose. Our perspective/understanding is vastly different from his, and he's a fair representative of our target audience. Microsoft/Apple have entire armies (of these types) dedicated to improving OS design. We have this one loyal soldier. Maybe more. Either way, I salute you brother.

[lerrup]

The article is unavailable because of bandwith restrictions.

Has anyone got a copy?

[UbuWu]

This is the text from google cache: http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:sQBTDu7Z0WsJ:mpt.net.nz/archive/2005/04/11/ubuntu+48+hours+ubuntu&hl=nl&lr=&client=firefox-a&strip=1

[davegod75]

I've developed/managed on a GUI design team before with my old company. Believe me, this guy is far more competent than some I've worked with. 'Nitpicking' is his job. 'Stupid' mistakes are his paycheck. That's why we hire people like him for this purpose. Our perspective/understanding is vastly different from his, and he's a fair representative of our target audience. Microsoft/Apple have entire armies (of these types) dedicated to improving OS design. We have this one loyal soldier. Maybe more. Either way, I salute you brother.


I agree...this is only good for ubuntu..Hopefully more people will write stuff like this so that the OS can become even better (that is, if the developers listen to the ideas)

[philipacamaniac]

I wonder why he didn't run Emacs and complain that Ctrl-C doesn't do the "copy" operation!!

Okay, so it is perfectly alright for free software programmers to do whatever the crap they want? Oh, I see the crowd here is a bunch of GNOME developers (who don't take suggestions from the outside world).

When talking about useability, it doesn't matter what the dictionary says. It doesn't matter what you should already know about computers. It doesn't matter that the "copy" operation key-binding isn't CTRL-C in Emacs.

The only thing that matters in Useability is that Grandma can sit down to the computer and do whatever she wants, without having to call Son or Grandson. If free software is ever going to take over the world (which Ubuntu does have potential for :-) ) then the hardcore users/programmers need to get off their high horses and start making sense!

You probably think that Linspire is a load of horse doo-doo, huh? I don't personally use Linspire, but despite what y'all may think, they are actually helping the Linux movement.

EDIT: I salute you, MPT! I even posted a link to your article yesterday, almost as soon as DistroWatch did!

[dermotti]

Ya know, if Linux became a OS that a grandma could use i probably wouldnt like it. I like linux because beyond being a great operating system, i have the freedom to break the rules and do stuff 99% of the world cant do.

[KiwiNZ]

"The only thing that matters in Useability is that Grandma can sit down to the computer and do whatever she wants, without having to call Son or Grandson. If free software is ever going to take over the world (which Ubuntu does have potential for :) ) then the hardcore users/programmers need to get off their high horses and start making sense!

You probably think that Linspire is a load of horse doo-doo, huh? I don't personally use Linspire, but despite what y'all may think, they are actually helping the Linux movement."

That is so true. I would also add Xandros as well .

[poofyhairguy]

You probably think that Linspire is a load of horse doo-doo, huh? I don't personally use Linspire, but despite what y'all may think, they are actually helping the Linux movement.




Sure is.....


Is Linux a movement though?

[electroglas]

Ya know, if Linux became a OS that a grandma could use i probably wouldnt like it. I like linux because beyond being a great operating system, i have the freedom to break the rules and do stuff 99% of the world cant do.


Can we not have both?

[escuchamezz]

Sure is.....


Is Linux a movement though?

it's a communist movement, get with the programme :twisted:

[mark]

Sure is.....


Is Linux a movement though?
Sure, it's a movement...the operative root of the word being move - the room to move, to grow, to explore. The way Granny did things was not necessarily bad - but it should be questioned..."But that's the way we've always done it" should be an alarm clanging, inviting inspection...and maybe a path to a new way of doing things.

[Stormy Eyes]

Personally, his complaint about each window having it's own menu bar instead of putting the menu at the top of the screen makes me want to bitch-slap the guy and say, "If you want Mac OS, you know where to find it!" Hell, if he wants Mac-style menus, why can't he use KDE and configure it for menubars at the top of the screen? I'd say that 80% of the faults he finds has nothing to do with Ubuntu per se; he'd have the same gripes if he got stuck with a laptop running Gentoo, or Slackware, or Snugglycat Linux.

[Stormy Eyes]

The only thing that matters in Useability is that Grandma can sit down to the computer and do whatever she wants, without having to call Son or Grandson.

Whose Grandma are we talking about, anyway? Are we talking about my grandma, who worked mainframes for Hughes Aircraft back in the day and uses Evolution to send me "inspirational" religious emails that I promptly delete? Or are we talking about some decrepit hypothetical grandma who's so afraid of technology that her TV has been stuck on channel 5 ever since her husband kicked the bucket three years ago?

[lerrup]

I'd say that 80% of the faults he finds has nothing to do with Ubuntu per se; he'd have the same gripes if he got stuck with a laptop running Gentoo, or Slackware, or Snugglycat Linux.

And the point is?

If you're new to Linux it's still a problem, if you admit its a problem. Most of the things he talks about are completely on the money. One or two of them have made me scream - especially playing CDs.

And we're not just talking Grandmas, Grandpas are important to get as well.

Did you read what he said about OS X?

[SolidAndShade]

Looks like that guy got a lot of attention. His blog was offline yesterday because he hit a bandwidth limit. But now that I've read the article...

Fitt's Law? Single menubar? Gimme a break. I've had to use Macs at work for years, and that interface is a godawful piece of crap. Having to move windows around so you can click on the edges is just lame. When I was a kid I picked up the Windows menu system intuitively while someone had to explain to me how the Mac menu affects whatever program is open, so I guess that tells us which is easier to learn.

A lot of his other comments are really nitpicky, but most seem like good ideas. It's not like those little things will be very hard to fix, at any rate, and I think they'll lead to a more polished look for the system. I think mapping Cancel and OK to the enter and escape keys is a really good idea -- maybe with "Enter" and "Esc" written in small letters next to the two buttons. Another good idea is a mouse pointer that goes away when you type would also be nice. Renaming files with a slow double click on the name is another thing I've always wanted in Gnome. And it really should be possible to instantly restore items in Trash to their original positions.

And then he complains that it's brown. Well, seeing as every single other GUI in existence is blue or gray or metallic or metallic blue-gray, I think we're long past due for something different.

SolidAndShade

[jerome bettis]

And it really should be possible to instantly restore items in Trash to their original positions.


that would be really really nice! one time i accidentially deleted a bunch of stuff and it was a real headache to figure out where everything came from. as much as i hate windows, it does have a few (trivial) features that ubuntu should pick up on for the next release.

[Gianni Exile]

Okay, so it is perfectly alright for free software programmers to do whatever the crap they want? Oh, I see the crowd here is a bunch of GNOME developers (who don't take suggestions from the outside world).

When talking about useability, it doesn't matter what the dictionary says. It doesn't matter what you should already know about computers. It doesn't matter that the "copy" operation key-binding isn't CTRL-C in Emacs.

The only thing that matters in Useability is that Grandma can sit down to the computer and do whatever she wants, without having to call Son or Grandson. If free software is ever going to take over the world (which Ubuntu does have potential for :-) ) then the hardcore users/programmers need to get off their high horses and start making sense!

You probably think that Linspire is a load of horse doo-doo, huh? I don't personally use Linspire, but despite what y'all may think, they are actually helping the Linux movement.

EDIT: I salute you, MPT! I even posted a link to your article yesterday, almost as soon as DistroWatch did!

I couldn't give two craps about whether your Grandma uses linux or not.

By your horrible flawed logic, a violin is useless, because your grandma can make sounds with a 5$ banjo, but can't play a 5000$ violin. Does that mean the violin is an inferior tool?

Your brownshirt salute is equally absurd.


I have no doubt you'd have a better time with a 5$ banjo. Enjoy!!

[Leif]

I couldn't give two craps about whether your Grandma uses linux or not.

By your horrible flawed logic, a violin is useless, because your grandma can make sounds with a 5$ banjo, but can't play a 5000$ violin. Does that mean the violin is an inferior tool?

Your brownshirt salute is equally absurd.


I have no doubt you'd have a better time with a 5$ banjo. Enjoy!!

Great, this place is turning into FARK.

[BenjyD]

Argh, usability discussions always descend into name calling so quickly. Posting constructive criticism isn't an attack on ubuntu. What always seems to happen in these discussions is you get a hundred people eager to disprove the points with their own counter examples, completely missing the fact that he's talking about the general case, not somebody with 2 1600x1200 monitors using a trackpad or something.

In my opinion, he has some valid points although some of them are a little overly nit-picky. I especially agree with his points on the "ubuntu spatial" mode and the placing of desktop storage device icons.

He may be used to OSX, but don't forget that Apple spends a lot of money on usability testing, which can reach very different conclusions from what seems "obvious" or sensible to linux-geeks like us. I've also read research that shows that what users perceive as the fastest way of doing things can actually not be the fastest: the only way to really compare UI decisions is through testing. Perhaps Ubuntu could set up some kind of distributed automated usability testing: users install an instrumented version of Breezy on their machine and are timed performing various tasks with different setting. Results could then be submitted over the internet.

Personally, I used to use the MacOS style menu bar back when I used KDE. Once you get used to it, the reduced effort in hitting the menubar is nice. If you're really used to the menubar per app way of working it can take a lot of getting used to, and you will have grown to accept the effort taken to hit the menubar and won't really notice the difference.

The aim of interface designers in general is to reduce the amount of thought required to use the system, so the user can get on with some work.

[Deusiah]

I think a lot of the comments that guy has made are valid however some like "username" and "shutdown" seem pretty stupid.

He talked about the "gibberish" you see when you startup/shutdown your machine. Personally I think this should be hidden but with the option to unhide it. I'm a big fan of the "gibberish" or should I say usefull tech info in case of errors, but the majority of users out there want to use computers with as little effort as possible so for them the info is just useless.

I think most people using Linux has a reasonably good grasp of computers and so wish for the statup output to remain but Ubuntu seems to be focused at being a distrobution for everyone no matter what your technical background is.

Now for a quick word on OSX ;) OSX is by far the most anoying OS I have used and I say this for the simple reason that I found it far too restrictive. It was like Apple were sitting next to me holding my hand whilst I used it. It's like an OS made for kids or a better discription would be it is the Car of OS's. I say the car becuase car's have become so "user-friendly" you don't even need to know what's inside one to use them. Knowing what's inside a car will not help you drive it, knowing what's inside your pc may help you use it however.

With OSX, I had to download a tool just to see hidden files in the file manager. The best thing about OSX has to be the terminal, it was like an escape in to the grown up's world, after all you could cause serious damage from there.

For some OSX is a great OS but I get the impression that those who "know their stuff" and wan't to use it for more advance things such as programming like I tried to will find it rather anoying.

[Stormy Eyes]

Great, this place is turning into FARK.

Hey, it's not nearly as bad yet. You don't have to mispell "****" to get around filters here. :)

/calls himself 'Programmer Cat' on FARK...

[Glanz]

I couldn't give two craps about whether your Grandma uses linux or not. Enjoy!!

My Grandma used BSD when she was alive. So it's really not a question of "Grandma-optimized" distros or not. It is a question of whether one's Granny is a friggin' idiot or not.

[philipacamaniac]

Your brownshirt salute is equally absurd.

I have no doubt you'd have a better time with a 5$ banjo. Enjoy!!

Meh, I can take it. I started on Slackware and have fiddled comfortably with Gentoo, so don't talk to ME about $5 banjos. :wink: I'm just looking out for my dear friends who don't eat, drink and breathe computers on a daily basis.

And I stand by my salute. He's an employee of the company I'm trying to support. The brownshirt thing did go over my head; I have no idea what you're talking about... :-?

[lerrup]

Your brownshirt salute is equally absurd.


Oh magnificent, Godwin's law applies to a thread about whether Ubuntu is useable or not.

Prat.

[Stormy Eyes]

Nevermind the "grandma" test. What we need to determine usability is the "Stormy's Cat" test.

On Mac OS X, Stormy's cat sits there, waiting for an animation. When he sees something shiny, the cat promptly pounces on it. Naturally, the cat doesn't do anything productive.

On Windows, Stormy's cat arches his back and bristles his fur at every popup and cryptic error message he sees. Upon seeing his first BSOD, the cat promptly pissed on the keyboard and ran off.

On Ubuntu, Stormy's cat can be seen working quietly, if purring loudly enough to mask the sound of the machine's fans can be considered 'working quietly'.

It's obvious that from a cat's point of view, Ubuntu is best. Not only Linux for human beings, but for kitties too!

[Leif]

Meh, I can take it. I started on Slackware and have fiddled comfortably with Gentoo, so don't talk to ME about $5 banjos. :wink: I'm just looking out for my dear friends who don't eat, drink and breathe computers on a daily basis.

And I stand by my salute. He's an employee of the company I'm trying to support. The brownshirt thing did go over my head; I have no idea what you're talking about... :-?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownshirt


The Sturmabteilung (SA, German for "Storm Division" and is usually translated as stormtroops or stormtroopers) functioned as a paramilitary organisation of the NSDAP – the German Nazi party. It played a key role in Adolf Hitler's rise to power in the 1930s. SA men were often known as brownshirts from the colour of their uniform and to distinguish them from the SS who were known as blackshirts.

It can also mean an individual of a political organization who is seen as very narrow-minded and excessively loyal.


Godwin'ed indeed.

[philipacamaniac]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownshirt

To call someone who is calling for change (IE, OPEN-MINDED), I don't think that analogy is at all appropriate. And now I feel all dirty, I think I'll leave this conversation to the dogs. Back to the Support Forums...

[Leif]

To call someone who is calling for change (IE, OPEN-MINDED), I don't think that analogy is at all appropriate. And now I feel all dirty, I think I'll leave this conversation to the dogs. Back to the Support Forums...

I don't think this form of name calling is ever acceptable. You're right, time to bail out of this one.

[KiwiNZ]

Play nice people or I will get out my box of padlocks .[-X

[pjack76]

I think he makes a lot of good points, but I would like to strongly disagree with him on one in particular:

He mentions that the interface is "brown", as if that were a bad thing, and offers no justification for why he feels this is a problem.

Setting aside the fact that many of my closest friends are brown, I love Ubuntu's default theme. It's warm and inviting. I love the use of earth tones, and to my knowledge no other system has ever designed a theme with them. The colors work; they reassure me; they make the system feel more human.

Please, please don't change the default theme. My reaction to it was similar to my reaction to OS X's Aqua theme: Wow! How lovely.

He has other valid points, however. When I plug in a USB stick, the icon for it appears on top of another icon, and it's very difficult to separate the two. (However, I love that the icon's label indicates the size of the USB stick. It's useful if I'm copying information from one USB device to another.)

[Rinnan]

"Bootup scrolls lots of technical gibberish...."


Hmm, I'm sorry, if you'd rather have a big multi-colored flag covering up the reason why your system froze at bootup, we can arrange for that :)

I would rather:

#1: Have a big multi-colored flag covering up the gibberish (which I understand perfectly, but am not interested in seeing every time the computer boots), and
#2: My system not freeze at bootup.

Can we arrange for that?

[MaX]

20: A lot of technical gibberish is displayed when the computer starts up, and when it shuts down.

All computers have technical gibberish when you start them up, even ones without operating systems.

No it doesn't.

A Mac doesn't list anything, if you have windows 98/xp/nt you will only see the bios listings then nothing, just as the Mac.

[UbuWu]

And on newer computers the bios flashes by so fast that it is actually hard to notice. I had to reboot my new computer several times to figure out which key I had to press to get into the bios menu. It went so fast that I could at most read one line of text every time. I think it took 8 reboots total :roll:

[TravisNewman]

AND if you have a manufacturers computer (which those who would get upset over text when booting generally would) you don't even see the bios messages, you see the Dell logo, etc.

[Deusiah]

I don't have a manufacturers computer but my BIOS info is convered up by an image of Tux which I put there myself of course.

As for Mac's BIOS info I have never seen BIOS info on a Mac but have only had experience with new Macs. They just seem to instantly begin the start up process.

[NaplesBill]

-#36 Items can’t be renamed by clicking on their names and typing.

In any interface ive used, you really can only assign one reaction to a click. In ubuntus case it is to open the file, not rename it. You could assign the click to rename it , but then it wouldnt open. Maybe if the mouse could read our minds it would know the proper action. That technology is at least 5 years out



ugghh ill go on as i re-read this.....he has some good points, and alot of bad points.

Actually, in Winblows you can rename by clicking an icon to highlight it, then click the text label again and it will allow you to rename it. Basically single click, then single click again.

[Deusiah]

Yeah that's very true. I had forgotten that feature however as I have been using highlight and F2 for so long, even in Windows.

[Patb]

I found some of Matthew Thomas's points very well worth bringing up. His point 13 in particular: 'The “Cancel” and “OK” buttons in many dialogs respond to Alt+C and Alt+O respectively instead of, or as well as, Escape and Enter'.

The problem is the inconsistency - if behaviour were the same in all dialogs, the user would quickly adjust, A related point is inconsistency between the need to use the Alt key in a menu and in the dialog box it leads to.

I find it quite disconcerting to have to stop and check (or just guess) whether I should continue to hold the Alt key for the next step in a 'Save As' process for instance. Gnome seem to have already published sensible guidelines/standards for these and related issues in their 'Human Interface Guidelines 2.0' which is available at http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/

I am new to Ubuntu and Linux. Does anyone know of a workaround to these quirks? Thanks, Pat.

[xequence]

I am grateful to my boss for lending me the laptop on which I have been using Ubuntu, and for giving me the go-ahead to post this entry, but I don’t speak for my employer and they don’t speak for me. My boss, by the way, is Mark Shuttleworth. I’m working for his company, Canonical, as an interface designer.

I really dont understand why you would work for mark, yet seem to hate ubuntu as much as this guy :P

[dermotti]

Well he posted a followup.

http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2006/01/01/breezy

I still like his last comment


The shade of brown is slightly more pleasant. But it’s still … brown.