PDA

View Full Version : Ubuntu out of the box sucks wet farts out of dead pigeons when it comes to multimedia



greggh
September 15th, 2006, 10:02 AM
I just thought that was a funny quote in A Letter from Linuxland -- Part 2 on Cnet

"Three things rapidly made themselves clear. Firstly, Ubuntu is as fast, if not faster, than Windows XP for a lot of tasks, especially on older hardware. Secondly, going online and not worrying about exploits, hacks, spyware or trojans is magnificently liberating. Yes, I know there are a handful of Linux nasties out there, but the odds are so much better. But finally, Ubuntu out of the box sucks wet farts out of dead pigeons when it comes to multimedia. Nothing -- and I mean nothing -- works.

Why that is, how to fix it and what it means for Linux on the desktop will be explained in the next enthralling Letter from Linuxland. -Rupert Goodwins"

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/desktops/0,39029426,49283564,00.htm?r=5

I saw it linked to from TuxMachines.org

http://tuxmachines.org/node/9620

Actually, the guy really likes Ubuntu, other than the sucking wet farts thing.

Bjoeboo
September 15th, 2006, 10:32 AM
OMG!! WAAAAAH HAHAHAHA!!!

But seriously Why is that?
Oh wait I know. Its got to be the jihad crusade thing about Ubuntu not containing anything requiring a 3rd party license (anything not open-source, GPL copy-left, or whatever) Mplayer is kewl but until you add support for every kind of media & file format under the sun its crap. divx, xvid, avi, vob all those standards are licensed by someone else. Even though they're like totally promoted and free for download from their respective owners (kind of like crackdealers they want the whole world using their stuff so they givit free but the ones with deep pockets (MS includes zip support in Winblose) ie Uncle Bill must PAY fat royalties. Maybe Ubuntu should have like a default desktop shortcut to Automatix or something where you just agree to umpty-ump million licenses and get everything from MS TTF, to PDF, to Java, to wma & aac support? I suppose Ubuntu would still catch hell for making it too easy (lawyers would say promoting copyright infringement blablah) besides I think the those other media format owners various licenses require you hit their site to install, otherwise your violating copyright (pirating?)... *sigh*](*,)

PS I read on digg that MS tried to buildin default PDF support to office '07 (like a lot of linux distros, office suites, and browsers have) but Adobe had a coniption fit to sue the snot out of them They were worried about Acrobat sales so they made up some astronomically ludacrous royalty figure so uncle bill ripped it out -said nevermind. *poor M$ so sad*:roll:

*edit:
PPS That segway into my Hater-Avatar was so slick I didn't even notice it.


--You better axe somebody -Christopher George Latore Wallace May 21, 1972 - March 9, 1997.

Carrots171
September 15th, 2006, 10:38 AM
The Ubuntu developers are actually planning to include something with Ubuntu installable from the software catalog that does the same thing as Automatix/Easy Ubuntu.

And yes, the reason why Ubuntu out of the box sucks wet farts out of dead pigeons when it comes to multimedia is because of legal issues.

DoctorMO
September 15th, 2006, 10:48 AM
The smell is the illegal control of contents in patented and non documented, non standard and non open source formats.

If everyone used Ogg Vorbis/Theora we wouldn't have these issues at all.

insane_alien
September 15th, 2006, 11:05 AM
funny, my massive Ogg Vorbis/Theora and FLAC collections work fine out of the box.

Kateikyoushi
September 15th, 2006, 12:01 PM
I concur, I just clicked on the first avi on my hdd to play it in ubuntu then got the "you need to intall codecs" message.

How, what etc, no clues how to do it.

With Windows media player 11
you need to install codecs to play this file, do you need web help ?
Ok, one click brings me to a website showing which codec I need with links, in few mintues I watch the file.
Now that's well done. =D>

I think it wouldn't hurt to come up with a similar solution.

Lord Illidan
September 15th, 2006, 12:06 PM
Hehe...

I don't blame the author for not knowing about .ogg etc.. But luckily, these multimedia issues are easy to fix!

jethro10
September 15th, 2006, 12:16 PM
funny, my massive Ogg Vorbis/Theora and FLAC collections work fine out of the box.

Unfortunatlety thats not what most people want...
J

AndyCooll
September 15th, 2006, 12:29 PM
^^^^
Unfortunately too, legally it is all that can be provided

AndyCooll
September 15th, 2006, 12:35 PM
I concur, I just clicked on the first avi on my hdd to play it in ubuntu then got the "you need to intall codecs" message.

How, what etc, no clues how to do it.

With Windows media player 11
you need to install codecs to play this file, do you need web help ?
Ok, one click brings me to a website showing which codec I need with links, in few mintues I watch the file.
Now that's well done. =D>

I think it wouldn't hurt to come up with a similar solution.

I read (somewhere, can't remember where though) that this has been considered, but even this presents legal issues. I.e. for some countries providing documentation, or links to, in the distro itself on how to get round these restrictions could be construed as encouraging users to break patent laws.

:cool:

greggh
September 15th, 2006, 12:55 PM
I read (somewhere, can't remember where though) that this has been considered, but even this presents legal issues. I.e. for some countries providing documentation, or links to, in the distro itself on how to get round these restrictions could be construed as encouraging users to break patent laws.

:cool:

I just read in Launchpad that this feature has been given high priority in Edgy, but unfortunately it has been "deferred" until a later release...

https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/easy-codec-installation

Brunellus
September 15th, 2006, 02:48 PM
the law sucks wet farts when you have to comply with it.

At least the author isn't posting here; the usual ZOMGZ IT DOESN'T PLAY MP3Z? troll is somehow ennobled when he has his own server on which to post his own opinions

bmzhang
September 15th, 2006, 03:03 PM
It truly is a nightmare, espeacially for a noob like me. Like actaully getting it to work is fairly simple but the thing is, it takes a lot of time if you don;t know what your doing, it took me a week before i could get DivX to work on here, Mp3s weren;t as bad about a few hours but still then I didn;t know what i did to get it to work.

But I believe the worst thing of all isn;t multimedia, but connecting to the internet. I spent over a month trying to find where to enter log in name and password. ~sigh~

Brunellus
September 15th, 2006, 03:15 PM
It truly is a nightmare, espeacially for a noob like me. Like actaully getting it to work is fairly simple but the thing is, it takes a lot of time if you don;t know what your doing, it took me a week before i could get DivX to work on here, Mp3s weren;t as bad about a few hours but still then I didn;t know what i did to get it to work.

But I believe the worst thing of all isn;t multimedia, but connecting to the internet. I spent over a month trying to find where to enter log in name and password. ~sigh~
I recommend EasyUbuntu or Automatix (but not both) for all your initial-setup needs.

As far as connection to the internet, I don't understand what the problem is/was. Although I think we could probably stand to make it very clear that we RECOMMEND users have a router or at least an ADSL modem which uses ETHERNET, not USB.

Kateikyoushi
September 15th, 2006, 04:23 PM
I read (somewhere, can't remember where though) that this has been considered, but even this presents legal issues. I.e. for some countries providing documentation, or links to, in the distro itself on how to get round these restrictions could be construed as encouraging users to break patent laws.

:cool:

I doubt MS would do it if it's illegal.
Could put up a disclaimer or something like you have here (https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/ja/codecs.html), or whatever helps installing these. ;)

Brunellus
September 15th, 2006, 04:29 PM
I doubt MS would do it if it's illegal.
Could put up a disclaimer or something like you have here (https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/ja/codecs.html), or whatever helps installing these. ;)
Microsoft does it because they have the legal means to do so, in terms of license agreements. Canonical/ubuntu does NOT.

B0rsuk
September 15th, 2006, 04:45 PM
Please, don't give him undeserved attention.

Kateikyoushi
September 15th, 2006, 05:12 PM
Microsoft does it because they have the legal means to do so, in terms of license agreements. Canonical/ubuntu does NOT.

It's a carzy world if it neceserry to have license agreements to link to a website.
I will dig into this want to have a clear view on the topic.

maniacmusician
September 15th, 2006, 05:19 PM
It's a carzy world if it neceserry to have license agreements to link to a website.
I will dig into this want to have a clear view on the topic.
lol, it is necessary to have license agreements to include all those formats out of the box. we do have links to websites saying how to install them. in fact, the first thing you get when you open a web browser is a "Welcome to Ubuntu" page, and tons of information on how to get stuff working.

DoctorMO
September 15th, 2006, 05:28 PM
And how mny people read that *roll eyes*

aysiu
September 15th, 2006, 05:29 PM
I thought it was Ubuntu's commitment to free software.

Mepis, PCLinuxOS, and Blag all come with proprietary formats "out of the box."

Kateikyoushi
September 15th, 2006, 05:30 PM
lol, it is necessary to have license agreements to include all those formats out of the box. we do have links to websites saying how to install them. in fact, the first thing you get when you open a web browser is a "Welcome to Ubuntu" page, and tons of information on how to get stuff working.

My posts were related to easy installation of the codecs and not including them in the realeses.
I wonder how many people read the docs a while ago saw two guys asking about sudo when it is even in the FAQ.
I bet on that my mum could not install the codecs. ;)

TravisNewman
September 15th, 2006, 06:21 PM
I thought it was Ubuntu's commitment to free software.

Mepis, PCLinuxOS, and Blag all come with proprietary formats "out of the box."
And they could all be sued at any given moment. AFAIK, Linspire is the only distro that has purchased rights to include these codecs.

maniacmusician
September 15th, 2006, 08:39 PM
And how mny people read that *roll eyes*

lol hey! that's where I got my linux-feet. As a complete newbie those sets of pages really helped me out back in the day.


My posts were related to easy installation of the codecs and not including them in the realeses.
I wonder how many people read the docs a while ago saw two guys asking about sudo when it is even in the FAQ.
I bet on that my mum could not install the codecs. ;)

hehe sorry I misread your post. confused it with something else.

lol if your mum read the same docs I did, i bet she'd be able to install the codecs! they explained all about linux, how the filesystem was different, what programs to use for what, how to get certain formats to play, etc. it was a wealth of information because i was just starting out.

Brunellus
September 15th, 2006, 08:47 PM
lol hey! that's where I got my linux-feet. As a complete newbie those sets of pages really helped me out back in the day.



hehe sorry I misread your post. confused it with something else.

lol if your mum read the same docs I did, i bet she'd be able to install the codecs! they explained all about linux, how the filesystem was different, what programs to use for what, how to get certain formats to play, etc. it was a wealth of information because i was just starting out.
my mother would have fainted, and screeched, and called me.

Face it: users have as much desire to know how to use their computers as people who use electricity need or want to know how a steam turbine works.

aysiu
September 15th, 2006, 08:57 PM
While I may be a little more inclined to get my hands dirty than the next person, I don't think it's an all or nothing thing. For example, I have no desire to learn programming. And there are some complicated programs I've tried to learn but have just seemed too much of an effort (vi, for example).

It's not just wants everything to work with no understanding vs. wants to understand how everything works. There's an in-between. The in-between may not be a huge group, but we do exist.

It's not too much trouble for me to learn how to install a few codecs with enabling extra repositories and using a package manager. I don't compile programs from source. I have never recompiled my kernel. I don't know what run levels are.

Even though I know how to resize partitions and set up dual-boots, I don't know what sectors are or the differences between primary and logical partitions (yes, I've read Wikipedia, but I still don't understand).

I'll buy IKEA furniture and put it together (with my wife's help, of course--I can't do it alone), but I don't have a fully functional lumberyard with power tools where I can make my own furniture directly from the trees outside.

I can check the oil in my car, fill up coolant if it's low, but I won't change the oil or replace a timing belt. I'll cook my own meals, but I do buy some ingredients prepared. If I'm "making" pasta, I don't make the actual pasta bits from scratch.

Honestly, installing codecs is not a big deal. In the grand scheme of things, people like me (and my wife, to a certain extent) would rather get stuff free or a lot cheaper if we have to put in a little bit of effort than get it more expensive and have to put in absolutely no effort.

And I still prefer to look for my own parking space instead of doing valet, too. Does that make me a power driver?

maniacmusician
September 15th, 2006, 11:38 PM
While I may be a little more inclined to get my hands dirty than the next person, I don't think it's an all or nothing thing. For example, I have no desire to learn programming. And there are some complicated programs I've tried to learn but have just seemed too much of an effort (vi, for example).

It's not just wants everything to work with no understanding vs. wants to understand how everything works. There's an in-between. The in-between may not be a huge group, but we do exist.

It's not too much trouble for me to learn how to install a few codecs with enabling extra repositories and using a package manager. I don't compile programs from source. I have never recompiled my kernel. I don't know what run levels are.

Even though I know how to resize partitions and set up dual-boots, I don't know what sectors are or the differences between primary and logical partitions (yes, I've read Wikipedia, but I still don't understand).

I'll buy IKEA furniture and put it together (with my wife's help, of course--I can't do it alone), but I don't have a fully functional lumberyard with power tools where I can make my own furniture directly from the trees outside.

I can check the oil in my car, fill up coolant if it's low, but I won't change the oil or replace a timing belt. I'll cook my own meals, but I do buy some ingredients prepared. If I'm "making" pasta, I don't make the actual pasta bits from scratch.

Honestly, installing codecs is not a big deal. In the grand scheme of things, people like me (and my wife, to a certain extent) would rather get stuff free or a lot cheaper if we have to put in a little bit of effort than get it more expensive and have to put in absolutely no effort.

And I still prefer to look for my own parking space instead of doing valet, too. Does that make me a power driver?
+1

seems like if I spoke a foreign language, i'd get you to translate because you're thinking the same way i am.

Brunellus
September 15th, 2006, 11:40 PM
aysiu, you are orders of magnitude more optimistic about users than you have a right to be.

aysiu
September 15th, 2006, 11:48 PM
aysiu, you are orders of magnitude more optimistic about users than you have a right to be.
Actually, I'm quite pessimistic.

I said
people like me (and my wife, to a certain extent) would rather get stuff free or a lot cheaper if we have to put in a little bit of effort than get it more expensive and have to put in absolutely no effort. I don't think people like me and my wife are the majority of users.

djsroknrol
September 16th, 2006, 03:58 AM
people like me (and my wife, to a certain extent) would rather get stuff free or a lot cheaper if we have to put in a little bit of effort than get it more expensive and have to put in absolutely no effort

aysiu, I think there are more people of like minds out there than you think...I'm one...the effort is half the fun...:)

aysiu
September 16th, 2006, 05:40 AM
Well, effort can be half the fun.

We're also on a budget. I love that Ubuntu is free and will always be free, and I can install it on as many computers as I want as many times as I want. There's no UGA (Ubuntu Genuine Advantage) crap to worry about or activation keys to worry about losing. I use Ubuntu for very practical reasons. Synaptic is now my best friend--I hate having to scour the internet for good applications.

Kateikyoushi
September 21st, 2006, 05:33 PM
While I may be a little more inclined to get my hands dirty than the next person, I don't think it's an all or nothing thing. For example, I have no desire to learn programming. And there are some complicated programs I've tried to learn but have just seemed too much of an effort (vi, for example).

It's not just wants everything to work with no understanding vs. wants to understand how everything works. There's an in-between. The in-between may not be a huge group, but we do exist.

Honestly, installing codecs is not a big deal. In the grand scheme of things, people like me (and my wife, to a certain extent) would rather get stuff free or a lot cheaper if we have to put in a little bit of effort than get it more expensive and have to put in absolutely no effort.

Of course it is not an all or nothing thing.
You could have choosen any other OS or distro which requires more effort but you choose Ubuntu.
There are people who want to build their system from scratch like LFS there are others who follow a gentoo install guide to build one for themselves.
There is no clear line but you can see most people stick with the OS which requires the least amount of work from their part.
Most people use their computer as their microwave oven do not know why it works and do not tweak it.

I understand your examples but things are a bit different

You learn about cars before you get your license, but you do not learn about Linux most people learn about windows in school. Things would be different if your car had a hybrid engine or something even more exotic.

People do not have the time to put a bit effort in everything they use.
I think we can say those who use linux are either professionals or computers are their hobby.

Kateikyoushi
September 21st, 2006, 05:41 PM
Well, effort can be half the fun.

We're also on a budget. I love that Ubuntu is free and will always be free, and I can install it on as many computers as I want as many times as I want. There's no UGA (Ubuntu Genuine Advantage) crap to worry about or activation keys to worry about losing. I use Ubuntu for very practical reasons. Synaptic is now my best friend--I hate having to scour the internet for good applications.

It is hard to get a computer without windows, so for most using linux is actually is more expensive than using windows.
They do not worry about activation or keys because they have system restore discs, key is on the windows sticker not mentioning how often they install windows or software on their system.

aysiu
September 21st, 2006, 05:41 PM
you can see most people stick with the OS which requires the least amount of work from their part. Then why do they want all this anti-virus, anti-spyware, defragmentation crap?
People do not have the time to put a bit effort in everything they use. I disagree. They have the time. They don't have the inclination to put in the effort. The effort often saves time.

Most Windows users I know (not Windows power users--regular users who have to keep asking me questions like how to set up their printers or get the junk mail settings right or a shortcut to an application on the toolbar) spend a lot of time doing very simple things.

When I try to give them some time-saving tips (use the keyboard instead of the mouse, for example), they don't want to save time. They want the minimal amount of memorization. Time is not important to these people. I seriously see people take hours undertaking tasks that take me minutes because they refuse to learn something new.

For example, rather than learn that you can insert 100 Word documents into a new Word document with one action (Insert > File), people would prefer to open all 100 documents and copy and paste back and forth for all of them, not even bothering to learn Alt-Tab.

I've seen Windows users decide to minimize five different applications, one at a time, instead of pressing the Show Desktop button or learning Windows+D.

I've seen Windows users manually comparing two Excel sheets to see what values they have in common instead of learning to do a VLookup.

It's not time that's valuable to most Windows users--it's lack of initiative. Point, click, don't think, don't learn.

blueturtl
September 21st, 2006, 07:24 PM
I don't get it.

sudo apt-get install xmms - I've got playback for mp3 and ogg.
sudo apt-get install libdvdcss2 xineui - now I can play DVDs.

http://www.mplayerhq.hu/, from here I download and compile MPlayer according to instructions and I can play practically all video files I've ever run into.

http://mplayerplug-in.sourceforge.net/ from here I download and compile the mplayerplug-in which allows me to play all the files MPlayer can play through Firefox.

Setting up multimedia on Ubuntu is way easier than on XP where I have to download tons of codecs and different players for all their respective propriatory formats. What does Windows play out of box? AVI and WAV?