I've been using OS X exclusively for a while now....

[Sushi]

Now, there might not be a point to my message, so feel free to consider this as a stream of thought.

I have been using OS X for the last several months. Reason for that is that my Linux-PC broke down (hardware-failure), so I was stuck with my Mac Mini which I had bought so I could get to know OS X as well. It's always a good thing to try out new things.

Anyway, since it seemed that I might be stuck with OS X for a while (I had no interest to buy new machine at that point, and I had no interest in suffering the binary-problems of PPC-Linux), I dived headfirst in. I upgraded from Panther to Tiger, bought more RAM for the Mini, and bought latest version of iLife and iWork. Hell, I even joined a MUG! And things have been pretty smooth. OS X sure has lots of candy in it, and things look very good. And things usually "just work". But candy is not important, and things do usually "just work" in Linux as well. But OS X does seem to have that level of spit 'n polish that Linux simply does not have. Built-in presentations in mail.app, easy sharing of content between iLife-apps. Built-in presentations in iChat in Leopard. Features like that seem very nifty, and they seem to be (sadly) missing from Linux.

Before you say "OK, bye then. Enjoy your Mac!"... Deep down I know that using OS X is not righteous. Yes it's better than Windows, yes it's very refined and smooth. But still, advocating OS X would mean replacing one monopoly with another. Do I sacrifice long-term security for short-term comfort? And besides, I'm not all that certain that OS X IS "better" than Linux.

I have been saving up money to get a new machine. And due to pressure from the Mrs., the next machine will be a laptop. And I have been thinking about getting a MacBook Pro. I just LOVE Apple-hardware, and not one dime of the money would go to MS. And Apple-hardware is the only hardware that would allow me to run all major OS'es out there. While OS X might not be "righteous", knowing it would be good for me professionally. And MBP is actually pretty good value.

But with MBP, we again enter the issue of short-term comfort over long-term security: how well will that laptop work with Ubuntu? Will that nifty backlit-keyboard work? Can I get XGL-goodness with MBP? How about the webcam? Suspend-to-RAM? Does it work with Video iPod? No, these are not support-questions, just some of the questions that are going through my head.

Now, the question about short-term comfort vs. long-term security.... I think we all know the correct answer to that one.

But there are some things in the Mac that I would like to see happen in Linux as well. Take Delicious Library for example. It uses the built-in webcam to read the barcode on your DVD's, and it then fetches data about that DVD from Amazon to catalogue it for you. Ingenious! why don't we have anything like that in Linux? We seem to have very solid set of those basic apps (email, photomanagement, music etc.), and we seem to have very solid set of hi-end apps. But there seems to be a gap in the middle.

That said, there are things in Mac that I DON'T want to see in Linux. Macs have lots of nifty litle apps available for it. But they cost money. Just 14.99, just 4.99, just 19.99. But it adds up quick. I think Mac-users are happy to pay for them, because they don't know anything better. Me? I used Linux before, and I had grown accustomed to the fact that there was lots of free (in every sense of the word) software available. The idea of actually paying for some nifty little apps seemed ludicrous to me.

What's the point of my post? No idea. Just something that I have been thinking recently.

[Laterix]

Thanks for the post. It was interesting to read and I have to agree that we need DVD-bar like innovations to linux. My attempt to fill that gap is my upcoming BluePhone (http://www.taimila.com/bluephone/index.php) application, but it still needs some work to do. I don't say that it's completely new idea, but I think it's nice little addition to my (and hopefully others) Linux desktop.

[Sushi]

Thanks for the post. It was interesting to read and I have to agree that we need DVD-bar like innovations to linux. My attempt to fill that gap is my upcoming BluePhone (http://www.taimila.com/bluephone/index.php) application, but it still needs some work to do. I don't say that it's completely new idea, but I think it's nice little addition to my (and hopefully others) Linux desktop.

That's actually pretty nifty app :).

Now, not related to your app as such:

I think that what we need is a desktop that is a coherent whole. OS X is pretty good at this. When you get photos in email, you can view them in a slideshow right inside the mail.app. You can also add them to your iPhoto-library with single click. You can have iPhoto-slideshows, and you can put music from iTunes as it's background-music. You can use music from iTunes, and pictures from iPhoto in iDVD and iMovie. Things like that don't seem to happen in Linux.

Instead of creating great standalone apps, we, the community, should create a system that is greater than the sum of it's parts. We have all kinds of nifty IPC's (DBUS), we have HAL, we have all the needed tools to actually make this work. But for some reason it hasn't been made yet. F-spot does not talk to Banshee. Kmail does not talk to DigiKam. Instead of creating separate apps that kick ***, we should be making apps that form a part of a greater whole. And the whole is bigger and better than the parts that form it. Apple has been doing that with OS X and iLife. That is the UNIX-way. Applications that work together. We have made it work in the CLI, but we haven't made it work in the GUI.

The ultimate example of this in OS X: Automator. That thing kicks ***. You basically create workflows with different apps. You could make a workflow that downloads all images on some particular website (using Safari), you could then rename them (using Finder), and burn them on a DVD (using Finder, or iDVD). We can do that in CLI in Linux (with pipes and stuff), but we have NOTHING like Automator in the GUI's. Why is that? Why do we need Apple to show us this stuff, and then come up with something similar years later? That is NOT how things are destined to be.

Instead of thinking "What stuff could this app do?", we should be thinking "How could this app talk to other apps? What could they do together?"

[Sushi]

Oh, in case anyone has been wondering: Yes, I'm coming back to Linux :). I never really left, rather, it was forced upon me. Besides, I haven been using Linux almost daily on my Nokia 770 ;).

That said, there is quite a bit of stuff we could learn from OS X.

[ComplexNumber]

Instead of creating separate apps that kick ***, we should be making apps that form a part of a greater whole.
i tend to agree with that, but i thought thats what the freeddesktop organisation is mainly for.

[fuscia]

you love osx. so, get a macbook pro and f*p to the guilt.

[Sushi]

you love osx. so, get a macbook pro and f*p to the guilt.

I don't. While OS X is nice and shiny, there are many things that I miss from Linux. So compared as is, Linux would still appeal to me. Besides, Linux is the OS of the righteous, whereas OS X is not.

I might still get a MBP though ;).

[3rdalbum]

Hopefully the wider adoption of D-bus makes this kind of thing possible. The desktops already have some integration (Gnome programs integrate with other Gnome programs, same with KDE), but if this Portland project goes well we could be seeing Gnome programs integrating with KDE programs and vice versa.

I don't know anything about this Automator program for OS X, but I think those advanced enough to use it on Linux would rather use the command-line anyway. It *does* make me yearn for a Free replacement for OS 9's Hypercard.

[Sushi]

I don't know anything about this Automator program for OS X, but I think those advanced enough to use it on Linux would rather use the command-line anyway. It *does* make me yearn for a Free replacement for OS 9's Hypercard.

That's just it. Automator makes those workflows doable for mere mortals. I mean, I'm no Linux-n00b. I have installed Gentoo over SSH for crying out loud :)! But I'm quite hopeless at shell-scripting and the like. Which is why I would REALLY like to see a Linux-alternative to Automator.

In case you are interested: Link (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/automator/)

[maniacmusician]

I agree with you sushi, we do need programs like that...and you're right, it's not right for us to follow in the footsteps of Apple or Microsoft...we have our own community, we should make our own innovations, which can go above and beyond what other corporations are doing.

[Sushi]

I agree with you sushi, we do need programs like that...and you're right, it's not right for us to follow in the footsteps of Apple or Microsoft...we have our own community, we should make our own innovations, which can go above and beyond what other corporations are doing.

True, we should come up with stuff that Apple and MS will look at and think "why didn't we think of that?". The problem is that the open developement-model makes surprise-announcements almost impossible. Beagle was developed in the open, and it was actually demoed few hours before Apple demoed Spotlight. Yet most people think that desktop-searching was something Apple invented. When in fact they might have picked the idea from Beagle-devels.

That said, we should not be afraid of taking advantage of stuff others have created. Just because MS comes up with something, should not be a reason for Linux to do something similar. If MS comes up with a good idea, it's just smart for Linux to follow. We should avoid the NIH-trap. But in the end, we should be leaders and not followers. But the developement-models does make that quite difficult. Bit if I had to choose between open source and surprise-announcements, I would choose open source. Every time.

[atrus123]

But OS X does seem to have that level of spit 'n polish that Linux simply does not have.

That really depends on the distro. If you want spit-n-polish, spend some time with SLED. It looks and feels just as refined as the big closed-source OSes, IMO.


I have been saving up money to get a new machine. And due to pressure from the Mrs., the next machine will be a laptop. And I have been thinking about getting a MacBook Pro. I just LOVE Apple-hardware, and not one dime of the money would go to MS.

If you want to give your money to an ugly company, that's your business. I suggest you invest in a laptop made by a company that actually supports Linux in order to encourage them to continue doing so. There are many such vendors that do this at at least some level. Why not go Lenova? Thinkpads look more professional than those candy MacBooks anyday.

[Sushi]

That really depends on the distro. If you want spit-n-polish, spend some time with SLED. It looks and feels just as refined as the corporate OSes, IMO.

I'm not talking about stuff like toolbars and widgets. I'm talking about stuff like integration between iPhoto and Mail.


If you want to give your money to an ugly company, that's your business.

What makes Apple "Ugly company"?


I suggest you invest in a laptop made by a company that actually supports Linux

Such as? I don't eally see that many options there. And considering the support Apple has been giving to GCC, KHTML, Apache, Samba and the like, I think that I could do worse.


Why not go Lenova?

"Lenovo recommends Windows® XP Professional.". Thanks but no thanks. And besides, I couldn't use OS X on Lenovo. And having the ability to run OS X is a good thing in my line of work, even though I would personally prefer Linux.


Thinkpads look more professional than those candy MacBooks anyday.

What exactly is "candy" in all-aluminium MacBook Pro? They actually look VERY professional.

EDIT: I actually took a look at Lenovo-laptops. They seem to come with two OS-choices: XP Home or XP Pro.

[Carrots171]

I actually took a look at Lenovo-laptops. They seem to come with two OS-choices: XP Home or XP Pro.

Lenovo laptops don't come with Linux but they do support it if you install it or custom-order a laptop with Linux on it.