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glotz
September 11th, 2006, 03:22 PM
Hello. This thread is to poll Ubuntu users who they like more of the two. Feel free to tell us why you voted as you did. If you don't use Ubuntu, please refrain from voting. Also, if you're unfamiliar with the chaps, simply don't vote.

If you're unfamiliar with these characters, you really should spend the time to get to know them. You wouldn't be using GNU/Linux without them. Here are the Wikipedia entries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds

For privacy reasons, I'm making the choices hidden.

Brunellus
September 11th, 2006, 03:24 PM
yet more useless "debate."

Linux is impossible with out RMS (love him or hate him). RMS/GNU would still be obscure and irrelevant without the Linux kernel. They depend on and deserve on another.

glotz
September 11th, 2006, 03:28 PM
Thanks for your useless opinion! :mrgreen:

I'm quite aware of the facts you refer to. Yet they do represent different thinking models about the GNU/Linux goals.

Stone123
September 11th, 2006, 03:32 PM
voted Linus . Stalman should resigne from not doing anything lately .

Brunellus
September 11th, 2006, 03:32 PM
The FSF and stallman will continue to exist. If they push "too hard," they will simple fade back into irrelevance and sit there for another twenty or so years. The marketplace ultimately will determine whose licensing rules will prevail.

Lord Illidan
September 11th, 2006, 03:36 PM
I kinda prefer Torvalds.

1. He seems more practical than Stallman...who is very idealistic.

He keeps a low profile..which I like.

BrokeBody
September 11th, 2006, 03:40 PM
Even when RMS dies, generaly, nothing bad will happen to Linux.

Linus Torvalds

Bezmotivnik
September 11th, 2006, 05:06 PM
I kinda prefer Torvalds.

1. He seems more practical than Stallman...who is very idealistic.

"Idealistic"=doctrinaire loudmouth.:rolleyes:

kripkenstein
September 11th, 2006, 07:06 PM
I wonder if, on Microsoft boards, they have a poll choosing between Gates and Ballmer.

mostwanted
September 11th, 2006, 07:37 PM
Linux is very fun and all, but I don't like the fact that he feels a need to bash Gnome on every occation. Also, a lack of idealism isn't preferable. Linus sometimes seems to a bit too "practical".

RMS is extreme, but he fights for our freedom, not just for the odd alternative operating system. This whole movement is the result of his crazy ideas. Back in the eighties nearly everyone considered him mad, now less people do so as they have experienced the greatness of free software. He has won quite a lot of battles in all those years, and that's why he's not going to soften up any time soon.

-Rick-
September 11th, 2006, 08:23 PM
Linus...he makes cool comments while Stallman only bla bla's about licenses ;)

UbuntuniX
September 11th, 2006, 08:27 PM
Go Linus! :)

FISHERMAN
September 11th, 2006, 08:32 PM
I'm certainly not as extreme as RMS, but I'd still prefer him over Linus.

Donshyoku
September 11th, 2006, 09:34 PM
Linus here as well.

Stallman contributed a lot and still does with the FSF and various intersting projects (Gnash!), but I think he is too filled with a political spirit. There is no playfulness to the computer approach and he doesn't so much listen to what users want as much as he promotes his own political agenda of freeing the world (case in point, his opinions on Linux DRM as opposed to Linus' opinions!).

omns
September 11th, 2006, 09:48 PM
...

Bezmotivnik
September 11th, 2006, 10:28 PM
RMS is extreme...This whole movement is the result of his crazy ideas.
Believe me, it shows.

DoctorMO
September 11th, 2006, 10:30 PM
Yes to be honest I like them both. they are good people doing good things and to pit them against each other as they them sevles are apt to do; is to draw attention away from the fact that these guys cared more for freedom and good technoledgy enough that together have made a computer system worthy of many desktops, servers and laptops.

The fact that I hold them and all the other selfless people such as Sir Tim Burns Lee in such high regard is not just becaus eof their works results, but also because of their willingness to do it for the common good.

zenwhen
September 11th, 2006, 10:42 PM
Stallman is the chicken and the egg.

ice60
September 12th, 2006, 12:53 AM
Linus is a programmer and RMS is all about politics. i like Linus even though i admit i know alot less about him, but i really strongly dislike RMS, i find him very offensive.

hizaguchi
September 12th, 2006, 01:35 AM
Stallman. I admire his ideals and vision, but most of all I admire him for actually going out and making them happen instead of just saying, "This is how it should be."

I appreciate Torvalds' software, but that's really his only contribution (other than narrow minded yet humorous commentary). In the grand scheme of things, he's just a programmer.

The craziest thing going on here though, is that a guy who values freedom over practicality is considered an "extremist". And wilder still, at least some of that is coming from a country founded by people who said things like "Give me liberty, or give me death!" Have we traded that mentality for "Give me liberty, or give me movies to watch!" ?

nalmeth
September 12th, 2006, 01:42 AM
I love RMS, and respect Linus

As has been stated from here to Gibralter, RMS is the great philosopher, and Linus the great engineer.

Our OS could not exist without both.

I think it's great how strongly RMS acts and reacts to issues of freedom, purposely capsizing the boat of 'practicality'

His lectures are a great listen too.

"If someone sends you a .doc, send it back and ask that person to use a file that is open to the public, and which does not require proprietary software to read" (or something along those lines)

I especially love that lecture (on google vids I think?) where he puts the St. Ignusius robe and halo on. When someone asks him what to do if their job requires proprietary formats and software, he replies:
"Get a new job"

:-\"

maniacmusician
September 12th, 2006, 01:44 AM
hehe, not so much that, but more like "we already have some liberty; don't push it." I personally don't know that much about stallman. clearly he's done a lot to advance linux, but without linus, linux wouldn't even exist. they're both important, I guess. I have some more personal views of course, but i have no desire to start a flamewar. it's all nice and chill at ubuntuforums.

Rhapsody
September 12th, 2006, 02:05 AM
I've considered this myself several times and eventually found myself agreeing more often with Richard Stallman then Linux Torvalds (though I must admit that I don't like the GNU Free Documentation License very much, which is why my works (http://home.graffiti.net/lillymon/) are licensed under a Creative Commons license, although I like to think rms would approve of the specific terms I chose).

All in all, I think the 'practicality' approach has too much potential to backfire and I agree with the proposed 'DRM clause' for the GPLv3.

Dr. C
September 12th, 2006, 03:05 AM
I voted for Stallman. He is the visionary and invented the entire concept of copyleft software licensing, which has been a resounding success. Sure he is controversial, you have to be if you are going to be a visionary. I do respect Torvalds for his excellent work on the Linux Kernel creating and overseeing robust reliable, and nearly bug free code, but there is a time when rocking the boat is really needed and because of DRM that time is now.

The current debate over the anti-DRM clause in version 3 of the GPL is a case in point. The assumption that the practical approach in order for Linux to grow is to allow DRM in Linux is just plain wrong. This ignores the reality of the marketplace where the lack of DRM is actually one of the main selling points of Linux.

One of the best examples as to why DRM does not work in the marketplace is Microsoft. The stock has gone nowhere but down since Microsoft got into the DRM game starting in 2000. When Microsoft was DRM free (1985 1999) it was one of the best investments in the stock market.

By the way the previous poster is a perfect example as to why DRM is hurting Microsoft one former customer at a time. Linux must learn from Microsoft's mistake.

BWF89
September 12th, 2006, 03:07 AM
I like Linus Torvalds. Stallman gets way too political, he should try to stay neutral on non-software related politicts like Torvalds.

PatrickMay16
September 12th, 2006, 03:36 AM
They're both fairly unlikable, but I suppose I would prefer Stallman.

prizrak
September 12th, 2006, 04:54 AM
As a person I like Linus better because he is progmatic. RMS deserves respect for sticking to his principles though.

rattlerviper
September 12th, 2006, 05:02 AM
Torvalds without a doubt. I'm really suprised to see it running so closely.

weasel fierce
September 12th, 2006, 05:29 AM
Linus is a lot more fun, but I think people like Stallman are desperately nescesary.

ekuliak
September 12th, 2006, 05:58 AM
I have great respect for both, but I like Linus more.

KiwiNZ
September 12th, 2006, 06:37 AM
I cant see the point of this.

The whole thing would have gone nowhere with out the thousands of un-named contributors.

DoctorMO
September 12th, 2006, 11:54 AM
Thats not true! they have names, I'm sure they've even all got mothers that know their names!

(plus the source code keeps a good record of it)

prizrak
September 12th, 2006, 02:24 PM
Torvalds without a doubt. I'm really suprised to see it running so closely.

Well RMS did start the whole GNU movement and the GPL was his idea. It's hardly close 60% for Torvalds is twice what RMS got :)

Thats not true! they have names, I'm sure they've even all got mothers that know their names!

(plus the source code keeps a good record of it)
True but we only know the big guns not the thousands of people who submitted small patches without who Linux would not be where it is today.

Luggy
September 12th, 2006, 03:38 PM
Hello. This thread is to poll Ubuntu users who they like more of the two. Feel free to tell us why you voted as you did. If you don't use Ubuntu, please refrain from voting. Also, if you're unfamiliar with the chaps, simply don't vote.

If you're unfamiliar with these characters, you really should spend the time to get to know them. You wouldn't be using GNU/Linux without them. Here are the Wikipedia entries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds

For privacy reasons, I'm making the choices hidden.

Who do we pick for what?
Which we think can drink the most beer or who would win in a fight?

Stallman has more muscle then Torvalds, but Trovalds has more speed. Wikipeida doesn't have enough detail so I can't get an idea of their height to determine reach :frown:

M7S
September 12th, 2006, 04:35 PM
Stallman. I admire his ideals and vision, but most of all I admire him for actually going out and making them happen instead of just saying, "This is how it should be."

I appreciate Torvalds' software, but that's really his only contribution (other than narrow minded yet humorous commentary). In the grand scheme of things, he's just a programmer.

The craziest thing going on here though, is that a guy who values freedom over practicality is considered an "extremist". And wilder still, at least some of that is coming from a country founded by people who said things like "Give me liberty, or give me death!" Have we traded that mentality for "Give me liberty, or give me movies to watch!" ?
You're a bit hard on Torvalds. He isn't such a freedom fighter or the idealist as Stallman, but still you must give him credit for being more than just a programmer. He did for exaple take an active standpoint against software patents when those were discussed in EU.

guyjohnston
December 2nd, 2006, 03:07 AM
Stallman all the way. He started the Free Software movement, which started all of this. Without him, there'd be no GNU, so there'd have been no GNU/Linux, just a kernel when Linux was written, there'd be no "open source", and if Torvalds had have still made an operating system kernel, it might well have been every bit as proprietary as MS Windows.

I don't like how so many people says he's "extreme". All he's said all along is "software users should have freedom". Just because he's kept to that and hasn't changed his mind and betrayed what he's worked for just because some other people have different ideas, that doesn't make him an "extremist". And standing up for those ideas and correcting people when they misreport his ideas and his work doesn't either.

mattalves
December 2nd, 2006, 03:49 AM
Stallman! :)

Guess the guy's the one who's doing all the "fighting" (wonder if that's the right word) pro-free software. Plus, his ideas actually transcend issues related to software - I myself, as a journalist who supports the expansion of democratic communication, feel sympathetic to his ideas.

Cheers!

Mat

towsonu2003
December 2nd, 2006, 05:52 AM
The marketplace ultimately will determine
if the marketplace was intelligent enough to determine anything, we wouldn't have the problems we are having -the marketplace is an illusion, a fake discourse...

fuscia
December 2nd, 2006, 07:04 AM
isn't this just another thinly disguised gnome vs. kde thread?

sloggerkhan
December 2nd, 2006, 09:05 AM
I have to vote Stallman. He's taking on the issues that matter now and in the future. Linus is nice and all, but what has he really done lately? We should be thinking about the future and not the past, and quite frankly, that means we need a visionary to lead our horde, lol.

steven8
December 2nd, 2006, 09:21 AM
isn't this just another thinly disguised gnome vs. kde thread?

I think it's more of a Good Cop - Bad Cop thread. You all can guess for yourselves which is the good cop and which the bad. I honestly knew nothing of these guys in depth before I saw this thread, and it made me go out and look them up. Not just in wikipedia, either! I found interviews and histories, etc.

Linus is a genius, with great magnetism. Of this there can be no doubt. He is a master of networking and knows how to keep the ball rolling. There can be no true downplaying of what he has achieved in the world of computing.

Richard Stallman is a firey man who is very protective of his community. He believes and acts strongly towards the freedoms he feels everyone should enjoy. The freedoms of the community.

Both men are to be hailed for what they have achieved. Both men have played their part in allowing us to be here today discussing this subject right now.

This poll is what has bothered me about what America has become. We are not to see the good and bad of both sides and find a rational middle ground. We are to pick a side. Period. There is no option for both, and we have radio buttons, not checkboxes.

luca.b
December 2nd, 2006, 10:05 AM
Torvalds all the way. I can't stand RMS's fanatic ravings (although I appreciate the fact that he created the GPL v2 I use).

FyreBrand
December 2nd, 2006, 10:28 AM
What point is there in a popularity contest between two people most of us don't even know? What a strange fascination we have with the "my software philosophy is better than yours"? Is appreciating the contribution of both mutually exclusive to the other? Silliness.

PrinceArithon
December 2nd, 2006, 10:48 AM
I vote for Linus cuz I think he has a really cool name.

My true feelings?? I think that now, you can't have one without the other....well you can, but I think the both work better with each other than alone.

steven8
December 2nd, 2006, 12:05 PM
I have to be honest. I spent a good portion of my night reading the actual words and philosophies of Richard Stallman from speechs and his papers, and I am really liking what he has to say. I think the FSF has the right idea. I also found out that gNewSense was NOT created by the FSF. gNewSense was created by two developers seperate from the FSF. It has been merely ENDORSED by the FSF for meeting with it's philosophies. SO. . .I want everyone to know that the FSF has NOT tried to change Ubuntu just so they can 'have their own'.

http://www.fsf.org/news/gnewsense

They have other distros that fall under this catagory as well.

MedivhX
December 2nd, 2006, 12:12 PM
Well. they're both very important because Gnu would be nothing without Linux Kernel and vice versa...

steven8
December 2nd, 2006, 12:14 PM
Exactly the point of my original post:


Both men are to be hailed for what they have achieved. Both men have played their part in allowing us to be here today discussing this subject right now.

az
December 2nd, 2006, 01:24 PM
Here is a recent interview with RMS and a few other FLOSS champions:
http://questionsplease.org/Questions_please_1.ogg
http://questionsplease.org/new/?q=node/2

xopher
December 2nd, 2006, 01:25 PM
I agree - Both are great men etc.

Anyway, Linus is closer to me, he's a 'Finlandssvensk' and so am I - so the (useless) vote went to him.

drphilngood
December 2nd, 2006, 01:32 PM
Richard Stallman, FTW!

IMO, having access to open-source software is nearly as important to freedom as having a free and unbiased press. Consequently, by fighting to promote and protect OSS, RMS is protecting freedom. *awaits jeering*

greggh
December 2nd, 2006, 02:13 PM
Fot some interesting "footage" of Stallman see this thread I posted...

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=311042

ZylGadis
December 2nd, 2006, 05:18 PM
Stallman is an obnoxious hippy, but he is also the idealist, the solid fundament on which everything stands. Torvalds has a magnetic and charming personality, and undoubtedly he is well-versed in kernel programming, but... lots and lots of other people have the same qualities. I think it is by pure coincidence that Torvalds decided to write a kernel at the same time GNU was becoming popular. Otherwise we would have had GNU Hurd now instead of GNU/Linux, and the entire issue of DRM entering a free OS would not exist (because Torvalds's "practicality" would not matter).
I appreciate Torvalds's kernel, but that's it. There can be many Free OS's (Linuxes if you will), but there can be only one GNU. If Linux turns into the new Windows, as it is rapidly turning out, something else will spring, because GNU's fundament is there.

greggh
December 2nd, 2006, 05:30 PM
Torvalds has a magnetic and charming personality..

I don't see this at all. Linus seems like a pretty boring nothing special guy to me. While I aknowledge that Stallman can appear as a bit of a wack job, at least he's interesting and quite a character.

Christmas
December 2nd, 2006, 06:04 PM
Torvalds. I don't like Richard Matthew Stallman because he keeps pushing and pushing about "the democratic system which is rotten, and not dead yet" to quote one of the videos from YouTube. For me, the GPL (for which I greatly appreciate him) is just a license, not a social movement. Linus seems very cool on the other hand.

Linux is impossible with out RMS (love him or hate him). RMS/GNU would still be obscure and irrelevant without the Linux kernel. They depend on and deserve on another.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. I mean, the first part seems right, but RMS has the entire FSF, the GPL which is also used for some programs running on Windows, also now from what I've heard GNU Hurd, on which an entire OS can be built.

JurB
December 2nd, 2006, 06:15 PM
As a person... Linus, 'cause he's funny.

I voted RMS, because he has, is and will be more important for FOSS and Gnu/Linux.

PrinceArithon
December 2nd, 2006, 06:23 PM
Linus seems very cool on the other hand.

Really?? Him and the other guy look like typical computer dorks to me LOL I'm teasing I'm teasing

You do have some interesting views especially on the politics to it all as to why you like Linus more.

It's all good though.

glotz
December 2nd, 2006, 06:55 PM
What point is there in a popularity contest between two people most of us don't even know?I think you just answered your own question! :D

Christmas
December 2nd, 2006, 07:27 PM
You do have some interesting views especially on the politics to it all as to why you like Linus more.

Anyway, regarding the politics (and I really really don't want to start a debate) I must admit I don't know much, however it's one thing to choose a permissive license for your software, and another one to attack a current political system. I discussed this on the Debian Forums (when I was using Sarge) in this thread (http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=7427&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) and I will quote it here too:

I agree with you. I like and use free software for about five months and I enjoy to have all this free applications and a free operating system. What I don't agree regarding Stallman's philosophy is the fact that he wants to determine everybody to use only free software. He is after a social movement indeed, not only the freedom of software, and this movement could be against democracy. If someone makes some program and decides to sell the binary, not the source code, for an amount of money, nobody has to buy it. If you want it, you have to buy it, you don't want it, then don't buy it. I once saw an interview with him on YouTube or Google Video (can't remember which one exactly) where he said something like "This democratic system is not already dead, and it's so rotten." Well, this I will not agree. Why is he trying to attack the democratic system by using the free software philosophy? As I already said, I'm using all this free software, I like it very much, but I won't become a fanatic of the GNU philosophy, I just take the parts that I think are good. In a democratic system, one has the right to do a program and decide if he is going to sell it (legally), to give the source code away or not, he shouldn't be restricted from making closed-source software. Open source seems better then closed-source, but if one decides to make closed-source, then it is his problem, and shouldn't be restricted from doing that, it's his right.

Regarding Torvalds... :-) Why do I think he's cool? I know next to nothing about him, let's see. I read the Wikipedia article about him, he began working at the Linux kernel, he's from Finland (a country that I admire because of the goth music), I also heard him pronouncing "Linux" in an MP3 and saw two or three pictures with him. And I think he's cool, after all we all are entitled to our own opinions.

jincast90
December 2nd, 2006, 07:35 PM
I wish I could change my vote from Stallman to Torvalds after seing the "footage" of him ](*,)

deanlinkous
December 2nd, 2006, 07:36 PM
free software movement, the GPL, GNU, FSF == RMS
one free software project == Linus

I only use Linux because it happens to be free software. Free software is what is important to me.

greggh
December 2nd, 2006, 07:38 PM
I wish I could change my vote from Stallman to Torvalds after seing the "footage" of him ](*,)

Hehe, I'm the one that posted that link, and I voted for Stallman as well. Sometimes you just have to look past a little foot skin/toenail picking/eating.

Aranel
December 2nd, 2006, 07:39 PM
Stallman is talented and cool and all that, but I find him (and his disciples, in some cases) somewhat... snobbish. In the fifteen years since Linux was created, though, Linus hasn't managed to deeply offend a single person, excepting perhaps Andy Tannenbaum. Linus all the way! :D

Frak
December 2nd, 2006, 07:40 PM
Prefer Torvalds, even though the majority of GNU/Linux is GNU, Torvalds is more laid back, I think Stallman should give the naming dispute a rest, because even though the GNU is not mentioned when saying Linux, we all, in the back of our minds, now that this wouldn't be possible without him, that if you took the GNU from Linux, you would have a basic bridge, from hardware to software, but nothing to run off of that. I appreciate what he did, I'll try to say GNU/Linux more often, but I'm still mostly going to call it basic Linux, because that is easier to say then GNU, and doesn't sound as weird, and is understood more by people than GNU, I mean we all have to applaud him, but he needs to give the name thing a rest, he should be proud of what he did, not jealous because his name isn't on there, he helped alot of people, and if I were him, I'd be pretty proud.

deanlinkous
December 2nd, 2006, 07:44 PM
Yea we shouldn't give credit where credit is due. By the way GNU is not his name. It has nothing to do with jealousy, what does he have to be jealous over?

Aranel
December 2nd, 2006, 07:50 PM
Yea we shouldn't give credit where credit is due. By the way GNU is not his name. It has nothing to do with jealousy, what does he have to be jealous over?

I call it Linux, not out of any disrespect for GNU, but because it's the name everybody knows. Really, the kernel itself is Freex - Linus didn't choose the name Linux. Linux is sort of what the combination of Freex and GNU (as well as X et al.) came to be called. :)

deanlinkous
December 2nd, 2006, 07:52 PM
I wonder why everyone knows it as linux?

greggh
December 2nd, 2006, 07:53 PM
Linus didn't choose the name Linux. Linux is sort of what the combination of Freex and GNU (as well as X et al.) came to be called. :)

Are you sure of that? I think I read in a few places that Linus did coose the name Linux.

Aranel
December 2nd, 2006, 07:58 PM
I wonder why everyone knows it as linux?

I'm not really sure. But saying "GNU/Linux" gets me weird looks. :p

greggh, it was Ari Lemmke who first gave it the name Linux. That's what he called Linus' directory on his FTP server.

And it was apparently called Freax, not Freex. Whoopsy. :mrgreen:

deanlinkous
December 2nd, 2006, 08:01 PM
Yea, couldn't be that everyone knows it as linux because everyone just uses the name linux.

Frak
December 2nd, 2006, 08:10 PM
Yea we shouldn't give credit where credit is due. By the way GNU is not his name. It has nothing to do with jealousy, what does he have to be jealous over?

I know his name isn't GNU, his name is Stallman and I've seen enough video's, read enough about him, and been to enough seminars, to realize that he is jealous about the name. He never says Linux, he says GNU slash Linux, or GNU plus Linux, and he has argued that most of it is GNU and not Linux, that GNU makes up 99% of it while Linux makes up the other 1%.

deanlinkous
December 2nd, 2006, 08:11 PM
How is that jealousy? If you were a GNU developer and the system that made usability possible was your code would you not expect to be a part of what people call that system?

Frak
December 2nd, 2006, 08:12 PM
I'm not really sure. But saying "GNU/Linux" gets me weird looks. :p

greggh, it was Ari Lemmke who first gave it the name Linux. That's what he called Linus' directory on his FTP server.

And it was apparently called Freax, not Freex. Whoopsy. :mrgreen:

I heard Linus called it Linux to show its similarities to Unix.

Christmas
December 2nd, 2006, 08:15 PM
And I've heard it's connected to Minix, or a clone of it.

LE: After some research:

'li' is pronounced with a short [ee] sound: compare prInt, mInImal etc. 'nux' is also short, non-diphthong, like in pUt {IPA /ʊ/}. It's partly due to minix: linux was just my working name for the thing, and as I wrote it to replace minix on my system, the result is what it is... linus' minix became linux.

Originally, Torvalds called his kernel "Freax" for "free" and "freak" and with the often-used X in the names of Unix-like systems. The name "Linux" was coined by Ari Lemmke, who administered an FTP server belonging to the Finnish University Network; he invented the name Linux for the directory from which Torvalds' project was first available for download.

(From the Wikipedia article about Linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux))

deanlinkous
December 2nd, 2006, 08:17 PM
not really a clone of minix, just used a few ideas and also rejected a few ideas from minix. The minix mailiing list is where linus originally posted and talked about linux

jbtito03
January 5th, 2007, 04:12 AM
I voted for Stallman because there was no third option "Both i like the same" :D

Actually, RMS is more LOUD and sometimes it seems that he has no felling for positive PR at all :d But then again it seems he is a PR genius. New IDEAS brought "some" changes. But, that is all known - the only thing is we forget to quickly. Remember Jesus and his crazy ideas or Newton or Machiavelli or Einstein or Che Guevara or Plato or or or or or... get my point?! If someone does not like someone it does not mean that his/her idea is good or bad - it is worth considering it and please - IDEAS ARE PURE AND ABSOLUTE - the implementation of ideas is never like that and is partial and unperfect like we humans are.

Furthermore, if it where not for RMS and the FSF the whole free software movement would be somewhere different and not right here right now.

Linus is in my oppinion considered as a child/student of FSF and Stallman. But as thru history we have learned, students and teacher mostly collide (Socrates-Plato-Aristoteles for example).

So... to both MY RESPECT!

Cheers

JB

macogw
January 5th, 2007, 04:53 AM
I think it'd be cooler to hang with Linus than Stallman cuz RMS is bit on the weird side...like, if Linus is weird, it's general geekiness/nerdyness. Stallman is creepy-hippy-weird (eating stuff from his feet?)

But then, Linus was going to copyright the kernel to himself (first couple releases had it), in which case we wouldn't have this OS to mess with. RMS's GPL is the best part of this whole thing. As far as importance, I won't pick.

MetalMusicAddict
January 5th, 2007, 05:45 AM
Cant vote because both have their places.

Still, a guy who, at a lecture, takes off his socks and shoes and eats things from his feet (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=311042&highlight=stallman+eat) creeps me out.

IYY
January 5th, 2007, 05:55 AM
Without the ideology which was created and is maintained by Stallman, Linux would be yet another Unix clone. The GNU license is what separates Linux from Unix, even free flavours of Unix like FreeBSD.

macogw
January 5th, 2007, 06:05 AM
Cant vote because both have their places.

Still, a guy who, at a lecture, takes off his socks and shoes and eats things from his feet (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=311042&highlight=stallman+eat) creeps me out.

Yeah, like I said...if Linus is weird, that's called being geeky...hanging out with him would still be neat. RMS is too weird/creepy to be fun to hang out with

steven8
January 5th, 2007, 06:11 AM
I don't think the poll was about who you'd like to hand with. I think it was meant to be who we felt was the most crucial to the movement?

23meg
January 5th, 2007, 06:12 AM
To adapt a quote from David Gilmour (where the subject was Syd Barrett and Roger Waters), "Stallman with my heart, Linus with my mind".

MetalMusicAddict
January 5th, 2007, 06:23 AM
To adapt a quote from David Gilmour (where the subject was Syd Barrett and Roger Waters), "Stallman with my heart, Linus with my mind".

WOW. Spot on. =D>

StarsAndBars14
January 5th, 2007, 07:50 AM
Torvalds, for one he isn't as crazy as Stallman, for another he made Linux what it was.

Linux will survive him if he ever dies though. That's no question, look at Debian.

coder_
January 5th, 2007, 07:52 AM
Ummmm, neither. Without one, the other'd be worthless.

Stallman's programs running on a non-free UNIX (Or HURD, meh)? Linus' Linux without GNU programs? Linus' Linux without the GPL?!

Also, they are both amazing programmers. I mean, in the beginning, with Richard Stallman starting out on his own with GNU. Just look at the sheer amount of code he outputted by himself. And, Linus starting Linux, obviously, also goes without saying (Unfortunately, Richard does not get the credit he deserves, so I had to mention him).

Note: I've read both of their biographies. They are really interesting. I'd give them a read if I were you. :) They are FANTASTIC. :)
http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/
http://www.amazon.com/Just-Fun-Story-Accidental-Revolutionary/dp/0066620724

macogw
January 5th, 2007, 08:31 AM
I don't think the poll was about who you'd like to hand with. I think it was meant to be who we felt was the most crucial to the movement?

That's why I also said I won't pick one for the poll for who's more important.

steven8
January 5th, 2007, 08:50 AM
That's why I also said I won't pick one for the poll for who's more important.

Ah, I see that two posts before. Sorry. But so many of the people who are anti-Stallman seem to be so because he is 'creepy' or 'weird' or not someone you'd like to hang around with. I don't want to hang out with either of them, but I certainly appreciate all they have accomplished.

EdThaSlayer
January 5th, 2007, 12:54 PM
This is a hard decision. Stallman has the cool looks of a hippie fighting for freedom while Linus looks all professional and likes to stay practical(as in, making things work even if some closed source code is used). Sorry to say this but both of them are pretty cool. I can't decide since both of them made Linux what it is today.

Dangermouse2007
January 5th, 2007, 01:42 PM
I like Linus. Linus seems like a quiet and modest man, whereas RMS is always blowing his own trumpet. Besides that, RMS is also a disgusting slob. It's not really the image we should be trying to project. I'm also tired of RMS using his position to further his other radical left wing political beliefs, which I don't agree with one bit. We're not all raving left wingers.

The other thing about RMS that gets on my nerves, which other people have already mentioned, is the 'GNU/Linux' name dispute. This is just jealousy on RMS's part, he feels he isn't getting the recognition he ought to. Yeah Richard, we know you wrote some good software, but we don't need to keep hearing about it. Do what Linus does and learn a bit of humility.

Frak
January 5th, 2007, 01:45 PM
You can't operate without a brain (Linus/Linux), but without a body (Stallman/GNU) you can't operate either.

Gustav
January 5th, 2007, 02:11 PM
I like Linus. Linus seems like a quiet and modest man

HAHAHA!!!


If you still don't like it, that's ok: that's why I'm boss. I simply know better than you do.

Which mindset is right? Mine, of course. People who disagree with me are by definition crazy. (Until I change my mind, when they can suddenly become upstanding citizens. I'm flexible, and not black-and-white.)

I'm always right. This time I'm just even more right than usual.

It's one of those rare "perfect" kernels. So if it doesn't happen to compile with your config (or it does compile, but then does unspeakable acts of perversion with your pet dachshund), you can rest easy knowing that it's all your own d*mn fault, and you should just fix your evil ways.

Dangermouse2007
January 5th, 2007, 02:13 PM
If you still don't like it, that's ok: that's why I'm boss. I simply know better than you do.

Which mindset is right? Mine, of course. People who disagree with me are by definition crazy. (Until I change my mind, when they can suddenly become upstanding citizens. I'm flexible, and not black-and-white.)

I'm always right. This time I'm just even more right than usual.

It's one of those rare "perfect" kernels. So if it doesn't happen to compile with your config (or it does compile, but then does unspeakable acts of perversion with your pet dachshund), you can rest easy knowing that it's all your own d*mn fault, and you should just fix your evil ways.

That's another thing I like about Linus, he has a great sense of humour. :p

RAV TUX
January 6th, 2007, 02:47 AM
Linux over Richardix

Mikes80
June 9th, 2008, 09:06 PM
I'm growing a beard like Richard Stallman's. Nuff said!

ARhere
June 9th, 2008, 09:18 PM
RMS, because he has a beard. All great engineers must have a beard.

I have a goatee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goatee)...um...Dammit!!

-AR-not-here

Dr Small
June 9th, 2008, 09:20 PM
I voted for Linus

cardinals_fan
June 9th, 2008, 10:04 PM
Stallman created Emacs. That is a crime against humanity that can never be overcome.

gameryoshi600
June 9th, 2008, 11:04 PM
I would say both

samjh
June 9th, 2008, 11:12 PM
Torvalds.

I respect Stallman and his vision. However I think the way he goes about his business detracts from the good work he aims to do. His ideas are impractical and ridiculously hard-line. Instead of setting achievable goals, he seems to just push toward a utopian ideal, and just letting others do the nitty gritty work of actually making something happen.

Torvalds is in charge of the Linux kernel, a big responsibility. He is also pragmatic and has what I consider to be a balanced idea between FOSS and making an operating system that is actually usable. His ideals may not be as high as Stallman, but he contributes practically toward smaller ideals that are achievable.

Dr Small
June 9th, 2008, 11:56 PM
Stallman created Emacs. That is a crime against humanity that can never be overcome.
+1 there. Vim all the way.

gn2
June 10th, 2008, 05:22 PM
Everybody sing: "Let's do the time warp again"

Post #92-#93 = almost a year and a half....?

SunnyRabbiera
June 10th, 2008, 05:26 PM
I like Linus better, sometimes RMS seems a little loony.
But out of all the linux public figures I like Mark Shuttleworth more then both of them

karellen
June 10th, 2008, 06:01 PM
Linus; Stallman made some statements I can't agree with

saulgoode
June 10th, 2008, 06:18 PM
Richard; Stallman made some statements I can agree with

FuturePilot
June 10th, 2008, 07:03 PM
Torvalds.

I respect Stallman and his vision. However I think the way he goes about his business detracts from the good work he aims to do. His ideas are impractical and ridiculously hard-line. Instead of setting achievable goals, he seems to just push toward a utopian ideal, and just letting others do the nitty gritty work of actually making something happen.

Torvalds is in charge of the Linux kernel, a big responsibility. He is also pragmatic and has what I consider to be a balanced idea between FOSS and making an operating system that is actually usable. His ideals may not be as high as Stallman, but he contributes practically toward smaller ideals that are achievable.
Agreed +1 Linus seems to be more down to earth. I do respect what Stallman has done as a lot of the stuff we have today wouldn't be here if it wasn't for him.

DeadSuperHero
June 10th, 2008, 07:08 PM
I like both. However, I find RMS to be possibly THE funniest politically-charged Free Software advocate around. I love how on his website, he announces when he boycotts bottled water and things like that.
Also, he's returned several of my emails, which I think is neat.
I don't know enough about Linus as a person to really make a judgement.

karellen
June 10th, 2008, 09:06 PM
I disagree with Stallman's ideas about software - that all software should be free. in trying to achieve freedom for software he manages to restrain the freedom of those who actually wrote it. why should a developer be obliged to release the software he wrote only under GPL? it should be up to his own choice and values. software makers are the only one who can decide what to do with the code. I have nothing against proprietary software (or against open-source). they are both valid business models and diversity is good

Silpheed2K
June 10th, 2008, 09:16 PM
Richard Matthew Stallman.. the one man with the vision that executed upon it.
Torvalds is down to earth but Stallman actually stands up for what he believes in and isn't afraid to say it.
Stallman is the way to go cause Stallman has proven he can deliver the goods in times of need.

goodfella
June 10th, 2008, 09:24 PM
I have alot of respect for both; however, I think if I had to go to battle with proprietary I would choose RMS because not only is he a good programmer but he is a man who lives by his ideals. Not to say the Linus does not but any man who can live by the ideals Stallman has deserves everyones respect.

Therefore, I choose Stallman.

zmjjmz
June 10th, 2008, 09:31 PM
While I agree with Stallman's views, (most of them at least), I do like Torvalds as a person more.

jrusso2
June 10th, 2008, 09:33 PM
Where is LaRoza to kill these old threads that are dug up over and over?

But while its still here I guess I will weigh in for Linus. I have had the opportunity to meet both in person and I have to say Linus is a good guy and fun to talk to.

Stallman is difficult and I appreciate him getting things started but now he seems to do more to inhibit Linux use on the desktop by his unrealistic stance. While Linus being more pragmatic and visionary seems to be able to compromise to make Linux usable for people.

swoll1980
June 10th, 2008, 09:42 PM
Torvalds, Stallman's personal crusades seem to stand in the way of progress. His thought process seem to be completley impractical to me, his extreamist views will never work in todays world which is very rarley black or white. Linus' views seem to stay in the gray area which is where I would prefer they be.

billgoldberg
June 10th, 2008, 09:47 PM
I like Linus as much as the next guy, but Stallman gets my vote.

The passion in that guy, the way HE started it all.

Respect.

I don't agree with his some of his points, but still.

JC Cheloven
June 10th, 2008, 09:50 PM
Stallman and the fsf, as you figure out. By the way, do you like my avatar? I've just made it "by hand". Anyway, my reasons are:

Although I feel three hundred billions of tons of deep respect for everyone involved in the free software adventure, and twice as much for Mr. Linus, I like the way Mr.Stallman has achieved so much without giving up his principles. Also I think it's a bit unfair the lack of grattitude (to the fsf and the gnu project) which implies using only the word "linux", as everyboby does, when talking about our favourite OSs. Probably, there would be no free linux-based OSs (for the desktop & as we know them) without gnu, the fsf and Stallman. On the other hand, I'm quite convinced that if linux wouldn't be there, the Hurd would have experienced a much faster progress (it was set as "non-prioritary" due to the avalaibility of linux), making possible the existence of a free desktop OS anyway.

Said that, I perhaps don't share some phyllosophical points of view with Mr.Stallman, but that's not the matter. The matter is, in mho, that due to his strongs convictions we enjoy a fantastic OS today.

Skorzen
June 10th, 2008, 10:03 PM
Linus, obviously. He made almost everything from the scratch.

JoshuaRL
June 10th, 2008, 10:09 PM
RMS. How can you say now to someone that carries around dual katanas and hangs with Cory Doctorow in his blogosphere balloon?

BuffaloX
June 10th, 2008, 10:12 PM
Stallman got my vote,
He is the true pioneer, that paved the way for everybody else.

jespdj
June 10th, 2008, 10:32 PM
Linus, obviously. He made almost everything from the scratch.
Linus started Linux in 1991. He wrote part of the Linux kernel. But Ubuntu and other Linux-based operating systems are developed by thousands of talented developers, and only a very small part of the code in any Linux distro was written by Linus Thorvalds himself. So saying that he made "almost everything" from scratch - that's not really true.

Though RMS is probably the most important person in the world with regards to free software, I voted for Linus, because I like his more practical approach better than the idealistic (and sometimes not very realistic) approach of RMS.

phrostbyte
June 10th, 2008, 10:37 PM
Stallman. I admire his ideals and vision, but most of all I admire him for actually going out and making them happen instead of just saying, "This is how it should be."

I appreciate Torvalds' software, but that's really his only contribution (other than narrow minded yet humorous commentary). In the grand scheme of things, he's just a programmer.

The craziest thing going on here though, is that a guy who values freedom over practicality is considered an "extremist". And wilder still, at least some of that is coming from a country founded by people who said things like "Give me liberty, or give me death!" Have we traded that mentality for "Give me liberty, or give me movies to watch!" ?

[-o<[-o<[-o<[-o<

Thank you for this insightful post.

Sef
June 10th, 2008, 10:55 PM
Linus, obviously. He made almost everything from the scratch.

That is not correct. Linus made the kernel from scratch. Everything else was made by RMS (or the GNU Group, which he founded) by scratch.