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View Full Version : Sarge vs. The Hoary Hedgehog?



morethannoise
April 10th, 2005, 02:09 AM
http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3496541

Not only is this article alluding to "stuffing" the ballot box at Distrowatch, it also states that Ubuntu's popularity is actually hurting Debian. This is nonsense. The team behind Debian is simply not as well organized as that behind Ubuntu. If it were, Sarge would have been released already, not constantly pushed back. Thoughts?

gw90se
April 10th, 2005, 02:37 AM
Is it any wonder the Ubuntu is number 1? Not only does the develpoment staff do a bang up job, but this forum works together to get us newbies up and running. The later is why I am using Ubuntu. I tried Red Hat a few years ago and Mandrake recently. Any questions I ever asked were either vaguely answered or ignored.

Only losers whine.

jdodson
April 10th, 2005, 03:27 AM
http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3496541

Not only is this article alluding to "stuffing" the ballot box at Distrowatch, it also states that Ubuntu's popularity is actually hurting Debian. This is nonsense. The team behind Debian is simply not as well organized as that behind Ubuntu. If it were, Sarge would have been released already, not constantly pushed back. Thoughts?

i dont think ubuntu is more organized perse than debian, i think the two projects have differing philosophies on certain things though.

release schedule vs. "when its done"
bleeding edge vs. stable
few arch. vs. every proc imaginable

poofyhairguy
April 10th, 2005, 03:45 AM
Gold


But Ian Murdoch, Debian's founding father, does not believe Ubuntu's popularity bodes well for Debian-based distros.

"If anything, Ubuntu's popularity is a net negative for Debian," Murdoch told internetnews.com. "It's diverged so far from Sarge that packages built for Ubuntu often don't work on Sarge. And given the momentum behind Ubuntu, more and more packages are being built like this. The result is a potential compatibility nightmare."

How could they-

A. Sarge isn't released

B. Ubuntu is based on Sid.


Murdoch argues that if Ubuntu were truly compatible with Debian, all of the energy going into it could be directed at Sarge and toward getting it released, which is what would really benefit the Debian developer ecosystem as a whole.

Yep. Thats what Userlinux tried to do. Look how that went. Debian is too uncentralized to ever be more than a server distro (where slow is good).



"I understand what the Ubuntu folks are trying to do, and they're doing lots of good work that will eventually find its way into Debian," Murdoch said. "But what we really need right now as a community is for Sarge to be released.

There. He admits that Ubuntu is now more about helping out Etch (the release after Sarge) then helping out Sarge. But Warty should have helped Sarge a bunch, and Sarge has problems even millionaire Mark can't fix quickly.


"In that respect, Ubuntu's popularity is more harmful than helpful."

How is it harmful that Etch is going to kick ass because of Ubuntu's work?

I''l tell you how- each Ubuntu release is an embaressment to the Debian people. Two Ubuntus have been released before a Sarge. And if they don't watch out, it will be three. Businesses don't like that many upgrades usually, so a slow Sarge is good many say. But from the words of of Debian's founder is obvious that Sarge not being released it is turning into a bit of a joke...not good for Debian's image.

Thats the only way Ubuntu hurts Debian.

Ubunted
April 10th, 2005, 04:54 AM
How is it harmful that Etch is going to kick ass because of Ubuntu's work?

I''l tell you how- each Ubuntu release is an embaressment to the Debian people. Two Ubuntus have been released before a Sarge. And if they don't watch out, it will be three. Businesses don't like that many upgrades usually, so a slow Sarge is good many say. But from the words of of Debian's founder is obvious that Sarge not being released it is turning into a bit of a joke...not good for Debian's image.

Thats the only way Ubuntu hurts Debian.

Give this man a hammer - you've hit the nail directly on the head. I would actually think Ubuntu would HELP Debian, as the Debian higher-ups might take a look at the popularity and success of this little distro that spawned from their own work and realize their own potential a little more.

Wether that is the case or not will be determined by the PR we get from them in the next little while as Ubuntu's popularity continues to grow.

telmo
April 10th, 2005, 04:58 AM
Excuse me, but... aren't Debian developers the guys behind all this Ubuntu work???

az
April 10th, 2005, 05:07 AM
Ian Murdock, Thank you for debian. That was many years ago.

I dissagree with most of what he says, these days. Ubuntu is a _transient_ pain in the neck for Debian in that once Sarge is released, things will go on as usual. Remeber that Debian has traditionaly had a hard time to release. Ubuntu did not change that.

az
April 10th, 2005, 05:10 AM
Excuse me, but... aren't Debian developers the guys behind all this Ubuntu work???

Debian develpers provide the cement, Canonical builds the road.

The debian release team is somewhat of a different story. They will not run out of cement, but their road is not being built very fast.

telmo
April 10th, 2005, 05:46 AM
Debian develpers provide the cement, Canonical builds the road.

The debian release team is somewhat of a different story. They will not run out of cement, but their road is not being built very fast.

Nice! :grin: