Help me find a good laptop

[ubuntu_demon]

Hi,

I need to find a good laptop.

Maximum price of 1200 euros. I live in the netherlands so system76 is not an option.

So the purpose of this thread is to find appriopriate laptop models which might be suitable for me.

** = very important/crucial to me
* = important but to me

My whishlist :

** A-brand laptop

** small,compact,mobile,strong

I want to be able to carry and use it every day. I want it to be at most as big as an 13,3" macbook. I would prefer smaller (for example a 12" screen).

The weight doesn't matter very much to me. But I would say below 3 kg.

** widescreen display of good quality. At most 13,3 inch. I would prefer smaller than 13,3 inch as that is better regarding mobility.

I don't want dead pixels on it.

If all other wishes are fulfilled then I might back down a little bit on this wish.

** widescreen with resolution of at least 1280x768

** low power usage / good powermanagement
I want to be able to work at least 2,5 hours on it.

powermanagement facilities as provided by the laptop hardware needs to work flawless with Ubuntu.

** durable accu/battery with good battery life.

I want to use this laptop for at least 3 years so I want the battery/accu to last at least 18 months but preferably much longer. And I want it to be possible to work at least 2.5 hours a time.

AFAIK "9 Cell Lithium Ion" is the best type of battery/accu available for laptops. If so then I want one of those :).

I want to be able to buy a new battery/accu after 18 months if necessary without having to spend more than 100 euros.

* motherboard with intel chipset

* intel processor : Core 2 Duo or Core Duo

at least 2 MB cache

I don't want the processor to consume a lot of power when the laptop is (almost) idle.

** 1 GB or RAM

** no ATI graphics

* harddisk 40 GB (or more)

* dvd-rom (good dvd-burner would be nice)

* optional WIFI

But if the laptop comes with WIFI then I want it to work perfectly without ndiswrapper.

* optional : bluetooth

If the laptop has bluetooth it has to work with Ubuntu.

** 1 year warranty

* I don't wish to waste money on windows

** the laptop has to work perfectly with Ubuntu. Ofcourse I don't mind installing Ubuntu myself.

This laptop is a nice example :
http://system76.com/product_info.php/cPath/1/products_id/161

But I don't want that one because I live in the netherlands.

I also started a dutch thread on the dutch Ubuntu forum here :
http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/message/27659

I appreciate your feedback and thank you on advance!

update :

I have thought a little about this and I have gotten a bit of money together.

If I formulate my wishes in a different way I could say it like this :

Is it possible to buy a laptop which outperformes a 13.3" intel macbook with 1 GB of ram for (max) 1200 euros (regarding batterylife,size and performance) ?

The simplest 13.3" intel macbook with 1 GB of ram costs 1200 euros in the netherlands. Here's the international link :
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?mco=A4791B5D&nclm=MacBook

Even if I would go for this macbook I would only boot into mac OS X if strictly necessary.

This macbook looks alright regarding its specifications.

I would prefer to not spend money on the operating system at all. But I have thought a bit about it and I think I would rather spend money on OS X then on windows.

I would rather have a laptop like this 13,3" laptop (or smaller) without spending money on the OS.

Regarding this intel macbook :

What are the cons if I would choose this one ?

Does certain software (such as w32codecs) have problems with it ? (which I don't expect)

Will the intel 950M video which uses shared memory give good enough performance ? (to run AIGLX and Enemey Territory for example)

Will the wireless work without troubles ?

Here's my latest post with a list of possible models which need investigation :
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1475956&postcount=32

A blog post with a bit of background :
Some changes in my life
http://ubuntudemon.wordpress.com/2006/09/01/some-changes-in-my-life/

[chaosgeisterchen]

whoa.. all that for 1200€? That's kinda lot you want for a very small amount of money. Concerning 13,3" NBs, I do only know the Apple MacBook and the Sony VAIO VGN-SZM*-Series which would be suitable - also under linux.

Do you speak German? Throughout Germany there are many quite cheap and reliable shops for laptops of all kind.

Just in Case you are capable of understanding German, here is some good link to overview the overall offer: 13,3"-NB's (http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?cat=nb13).

Hope you find yourself some good NB. 14(,1)" is too big for you? Otherwise I would suggest you other Notebooks.

greetings

cg

[matthew]

Asus has many products that are reputed to work very well with linux (and I seem to recall that most of the System76 products are rebranded Asus computers with some customization). You might try their Netherlands site and see what you turn up.

http://www.asus.nl/

[ubuntu_demon]

whoa.. all that for 1200€? That's kinda lot you want for a very small amount of money.


Thank you for your quick reply!

** = very important/crucial to me
* = important but to me

So I can live with a couple of "*-wishes" not being met.



Concerning 13,3" NBs, I do only know the Apple MacBook and the Sony VAIO VGN-SZM*-Series which would be suitable - also under linux.


I meant 13,3" and below. So for example 12.1" is even better :)



Do you speak German? Throughout Germany there are many quite cheap and reliable shops for laptops of all kind.

Just in Case you are capable of understanding German, here is some good link to overview the overall offer: 13,3"-NB's (http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?cat=nb13).


I can read/listen/understand german but I don't speak it very well.

Thanks for the link. There might be some good models listed there.

I prefer to buy the laptop from a dutch shop.



Hope you find yourself some good NB. 14(,1)" is too big for you? Otherwise I would suggest you other Notebooks.

greetings

cg

I want a laptop that is at most as big as an 13.3" ibook.

[ubuntu_demon]

Asus has many products that are reputed to work very well with linux (and I seem to recall that most of the System76 products are rebranded Asus computers with some customization). You might try their Netherlands site and see what you turn up.

http://www.asus.nl/
Thanks for the suggestion :)

The site is : http://nl.asus.com

I don't know whether it's possible to buy an asus laptop withouth windows somewhere.

[chaosgeisterchen]

Ow.. I am keen on helping you but it's a fact that microtechnology (I _do_ regard 12,1" subnotebooks as mircotechnology) has higher costs as reward for the same power.

There are indeed some cheap models (another link (http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?cat=nb12)), but the question is: Quality standards and Linux compability.

These are unanwered, so go and consult tuxmobil, linux-on-laptops, etc. if you found yourself something appropiate.

greetings, cg

[prizrak]

Try an Averatec perhaps. From what I know they work well with Linux. Here is a list of 12 inch notebooks. No accu/battery pack will last you for longer than a year. 18 months at most, they are designed to fail. http://www.averatec.com/notebooks/12inch.htm

Also Acer seems to be Linux friendly and I know it's fairly big in EU

[matthew]

Thanks for the suggestion :)

The site is : http://nl.asus.com

I don't know whether it's possible to buy an asus laptop withouth windows somewhere.I have a whitebox AOpen laptop (link to detail in my sig). I know ASUS whitebox notebooks are available in the USA and I would presume they are also available in the EU. You might search for sites like this that offer whitebox solutions if you don't mind doing some assembly yourself (I enjoy that sort of thing...).

http://www.abs.com/diy/notebookdiy.asp

[scourge]

whoa.. all that for 1200€? That's kinda lot you want for a very small amount of money.

Actually 1200€ can buy you a pretty good laptop these days, so I think ubuntu_demon's requirements are reasonable, though the size is a challenge.

In the PC department Fujitsu-Siemens has the Amilo Si line: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/home/products/notebooks/amilo_si_1520.html
The prices are about 1200€ - 1270€ in Finland, probably lower in Netherlands. If only you could buy these without Windows.

Then there's of course the Macbook, but I don't know how well they work with Ubuntu.

[matthew]

A few more links to look at.

http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportMachinesLaptops

[newbie2]

http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/


no laptop , but a dutch reseller of ubuntu PC's -->
http://www.ikbenstil.nl/index.php?cPath=314
;)

[ubuntu_demon]

Actually 1200€ can buy you a pretty good laptop these days, so I think ubuntu_demon's requirements are reasonable, though the size is a challenge.

In the PC department Fujitsu-Siemens has the Amilo Si line: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/home/products/notebooks/amilo_si_1520.html
The prices are about 1200€ - 1270€ in Finland, probably lower in Netherlands. If only you could buy these without Windows.

Then there's of course the Macbook, but I don't know how well they work with Ubuntu.

looks nice. Thanks :)

It's less than 1100 euros :
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/143232/Fujitsu-Siemens-Amilo-Si-1520-(Core-Duo-T2300-1GB-100GB-DVD+-RW-12-inchTFT-WXP-Home)-prijzen.html

update : I'm going for an A-brand.

[Derek Djons]

Why not an Apple Macbook 1.83Ghz, 13.3 inch display, it has a higher resolution than you require and the best part of all... you can install every OS on it. From Linux to Mac OS X and even Microsoft Windows.

Since you are a student you can also claim 4% to 6% reduction ordering via Apple's edustore.

www.apple.nl/macbook/

[ubuntu_demon]

I'm not going to decide this very quickly because I don't have much money at all.

If I find a nice model I need to contact webshops to ask :
-whether I can get it without windows and safe me some money (and not make microsoft richer for something I don't use)
-whether I can spread the payment. If this isn't possible I might go for a very cheap laptop or wait some months and hope to get the money together.

[ubuntu_demon]

Why not an Apple Macbook 1.83Ghz, 13.3 inch display, it has a higher resolution than you require and the best part of all... you can install every OS on it. From Linux to Mac OS X and even Microsoft Windows.

Since you are a student you can also claim 4% to 6% reduction ordering via Apple's edustore.

www.apple.nl/macbook/
It's an option.

But I prefer a smaller one (for example 12").

If possible I don't want to pay money for an operating system since I'm going to use Linux and I'm willing to search a bit and send some e-mails to make that happen.

So I think I'm going to search for a nice model first and approach a couple of webshops after a while with some questions.

I also need to be able to spread the payment because I don't have any money at all.

update :

I have thought a little about this and I have gotten a bit of money together.

If I formulate my wishes in a different way I could say it like this :

Is it possible to buy a laptop which outperformes a 13.3" intel macbook with 1 GB of ram for (max) 1200 euros (regarding batterylife,size and performance) ?

The simplest 13.3" intel macbook with 1 GB of ram costs 1200 euros in the netherlands. Here's the international link :
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?mco=A4791B5D&nclm=MacBook

Even if I would go for this macbook I would only boot into mac OS X if strictly necessary.

This macbook looks alright regarding its specifications.

I would prefer to not spend money on the operating system at all. But I have thought a bit about it and I think I would rather spend money on OS X then on windows.

I would rather have a laptop like this 13,3" laptop (or smaller) without spending money on the OS.

Regarding this intel macbook. What are the cons if I would choose this one ? Does certain software (such as w32codecs) have problems with it

[ubuntu_demon]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions so far :)

[Derek Djons]

It's an option.

And I would prefer buying a laptop without an operating system or with Linux.

This can be more difficult to achieve. A lot of resellers can't do anything since Windows and the product key sticker are being applied at manufacturer level. All large manufacturers that I know Asus, Dell, Acer, PB apply the sticker and install Windows at the factory. The reseller can't do anything but sell them. In other countries there are indeed as you mentioned companies such as system76 and etc.

The only tip I can give you based on four years of technical and sales experience is keep loyal to A-brand manufacturers. Dell, Asus and Acer are okay. But system made by PB and some made by Fujitsu-Siemens generally break down a bit more. I've sold them all (except Dell) and saw what came back and heard from customers about which brands they were disappointed.

[jotagab]

I think you'll have a hard time finding a <13.3" notebook for 1200EUR...
I just want to give you a link of a Danish company that builds and sells notebooks all around Europe, Netherlands included. Their smallest one has a 14" screen, but the prices are quite reasonable:
www.zepto.com (http://www.zepto.com)

You can buy them without any OS installed (thus not paying the Windows tax). This model look nice:
http://lu.zepto.com/Default.aspx?page=NotebookSummaryPage&notebookid=THwR8IWVmThfdAw

Nice hunting!

PS: I have an Acer Aspire 2012 and I'm very happy with it.

[mips]

Thinkpad X series maybe.

You will NEVER get away from dead pixels sorry to say.

[ubuntu_demon]

No accu/battery pack will last you for longer than a year. 18 months at most, they are designed to fail.

Do you have any "evidence" to support this ?

I'm new to laptops. I thought laptops would have been matured enough to be able to use them for at least 2 years.

How expensive is a new battery pack on average 18-24 months after you have bought your laptop ?

[ubuntu_demon]

update :

I have thought a little about this and I have gotten a bit of money together.

If I formulate my wishes in a different way I could say it like this :

Is it possible to buy a laptop which outperformes a 13.3" intel macbook with 1 GB of ram for (max) 1200 euros (regarding batterylife,size and performance) ?

The simplest 13.3" intel macbook with 1 GB of ram costs 1200 euros in the netherlands. Here's the international link :
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?mco=A4791B5D&nclm=MacBook

Even if I would go for this macbook I would only boot into mac OS X if strictly necessary.

This macbook looks alright regarding its specifications.

I would prefer to not spend money on the operating system at all. But I have thought a bit about it and I think I would rather spend money on OS X then on windows.

I would rather have a laptop like this 13,3" laptop (or smaller) without spending money on the OS.

Regarding this intel macbook :

What are the cons if I would choose this one ?

Does certain software (such as w32codecs) have problems with it ? (which I don't expect)

Will the intel 950M video which uses shared memory give good enough performance ? (to run AIGLX and Enemey Territory for example)

Will the wireless work without troubles ?

[newbie2]

http://www.linux-service.be/onderwijsprodukten.htm
http://www.slimpc.be/catalog/

[mips]

Do you have any "evidence" to support this ?

I'm new to laptops. I thought laptops would have been matured enough to be able to use them for at least 2 years.

How expensive is a new battery pack on average 18-24 months after you have bought your laptop ?

I don't have any real evidence but after working for a big corporate that purchased thousands of laptops a year I think I can speak with some experience.

Batteries are still batteries and their lifetime is not that long, it's getting better but they still fail. The failure rate is not really predictable imho. Some fail within like 3 months others last like 2 years but they do not keep their charge as well so you get less time out of the battery pack.

In 2-3 years time you might not be able to get a new battery from the manufacturer, all depends on the manufacturer.

The other option is to get a replacement pack from a third party supplier but it is not that easy with latops.

Another option would be to have the cells repacked by a battery specialist company but if the circuitry is shot it might be a problem.

My personal opinion is to buy an addition battery pack when you purchase the laptop and alternate between the two.

[mips]

What do you want in a laptop spec wise ? Seems like you are going for ultra portable ?

Thinkpad X series is another ultraportable option.

EDIT: Thinkpad X series might be more than 1200euros but check local pricing

Maybe just get the Mac, just check for heat related issues as i've heard some stories.
Fujitsu Lifebook S2110 is 13"
HP NC4400 12"
Asus M5/W5 12"
Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo Pro V3205 12"
LG TX/LW25 12"
Flybook - Dunno about linux on it as it uses a transmeta cpu.

[ubuntu_demon]

A blog post with a bit of background :

Some changes in my life
http://ubuntudemon.wordpress.com/2006/09/01/some-changes-in-my-life/

[m.musashi]

I just jumped to the end so I don't know if this has been mentioned but the Dell Latitude d420 is COOL. It's very small and light. It doesn't have a built in CD/DVD. Instead you use an external or use a media base that increased the size and weight to about 4.5 lbs (3.0 lbs without). If you are on the go and don't need a CD/DVD this is a sweet little lappy. I saw one at my college bookstore. It was $1350 or so with the media base and DVD and a core solo processor. I don't know if that is more or less than 1200 euros but it should be close. Of course that was the student price and you may or may not be able to get it.

I think it meets most of your other requests but will, unfortunatley, come with windows. I'd at least give it a look. (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/latit_d420?c=us&cs=2236&l=en&s=eep)

EDIT: A few more comments...I have installed ubuntu on several dell laptops (inspiron 600m, latitude d505, d610, d820) and all have worked nearly perfectly. I have to manuually switch wireless networks (like from school to home) but really very few other issues (except certain proprietary software - can you say macromedia?). The latitudes are very nice and sturdy notebooks. There is a link to some tests an Australian company did where they drop them off tables and spill coffee on them on the dell web site. Or just go here (javascript:winopen('http://www.dell.com/html/us/products/latitude/test.html','popup370x480','WIDTH=370,HEIGHT=480,RE SIZABLE=YES,SCROLLBARS=NO,TOOLBAR=NO,LEFT=0,TOP=20 ');). I'm sure there are other good products out there and I can't say I've overly pleased with the forced intel, microsoft combination but if you can look past that these are nice computers and relatively reasonbly priced. I have purchased several for work and have not had any problems with any of them. And, no, I don't own dell stock. Sorry to sound like a salesman but just trying to give you good feedback to help make your decision.

Finally, some tests reported up to 7 hours batery life on the d420 (one of the PC magazines. I forget which).

[ubuntu_demon]

thanks for all the input guys :)

[chibiace]

i think you should get anything with intel graphics and wireless, because they seem to work well?

toshiba make smaller laptops i think but im not certain.

harddrive space isnt important really.

1gb of memory is a good idea, but maybe go for 512mb and buy another stick of it from a computer store, that way it should be cheaper.

batteries dont last long, 2 years is a good guess.

pentium M look ok. fast = more power usage anyway.


i ordered a dell inspiron 1300 and should get it in afew days.
they said it comes with intel wireless, i wont be happy if it doesnt, but i think ubuntu has come along way on laptops and works much better.

where can i buy a yellow industrial lego-like laptop :P

[slimdog360]

Cant go wrong with a thinkpad. Ive got one and works beautifully with everything I throw at it. I managed to get it second hand and as a result only cost me $530 Australian.
specs
1.4GHz celeron
768MB RAM
15.4" screen (or it might be 14.something" I cant remember)
it doesnt have onboard wireless but thats about all it doesnt have.

[Terracotta]

It's a belgian store but:
http://www.tones.be/shop_configs2.php?type=LT&proc=INTEL

Make sure you ask for an American Keyboard, because we Belgians have French keyboards ;-) (and boy does that s***).

I also would like to point out that when it comes to portability a 15,4" laptop in a backpack works fine. A backpack is easier for laptops than those other solutions, and I've looked around for backpacks for small laptops but there I didn't find any so I had to settle with a backpack for 15,4 or 15" laptops, works anyway, and I don't have a car so I travel around by bike ;-).

[ubuntu_demon]

I think you'll have a hard time finding a <13.3" notebook for 1200EUR...
I just want to give you a link of a Danish company that builds and sells notebooks all around Europe, Netherlands included. Their smallest one has a 14" screen, but the prices are quite reasonable:
www.zepto.com (http://www.zepto.com)

You can buy them without any OS installed (thus not paying the Windows tax). This model look nice:
http://lu.zepto.com/Default.aspx?page=NotebookSummaryPage&notebookid=THwR8IWVmThfdAw

Nice hunting!

PS: I have an Acer Aspire 2012 and I'm very happy with it.
Thanks for the suggestion.

I have never heard of zepto and I want an A brand laptop.

I have no idea of Ubuntu works good on zepto laptops. I don't want to spend a lot of money and ending up having a laptop which works poorly with Ubuntu.

When I googled for 'ubuntu 6014W' I found some danish? links. Maybe there are some people who have very good experiences with Dapper or Edgy but I can't read danish.

[ubuntu_demon]

I want an A-brand laptop. And I want a US-english qwerty keyboard.

I’m willing to spend about 1200 euros on it which is a LOT of money for me. I want a small laptop with good performance and good battery life and I want it to work perfectly with Ubuntu (including wireless and suspend/hibernate)

I forgot to explicitely mention that I want a small core duo laptop with a screen that’s smaller than 15″.

Here's a list of some possible models. First I need to find out whether they work perfectly with Ubuntu.

* 13,3" macbook (T2400;1GB;60 GB;intel GMA 950)

I have read stories about heat problems. This doesn't sound very positive to me.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/MacBook
http://desrt.mcmaster.ca/macbook.xhtml
http://bin-false.org/?p=17
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hajk/
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/58484/comments/2
http://www.mactel-linux.org/wiki/HOWTO
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=225621

* HP Pavilion DV2085 (T2400;14″ TFT;1GB;120GB;GF7200)

No dedicated video memory for this laptop. See :
http://www.nvidia.com/object/go_7_series_techspecs.html

nvidia doesn't list the GF go 7200 in it's support cards :
http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_18897.html

I can't find any review of Ubuntu on this laptop :(

This laptop doesn't look very interesting right now.

dutch link for prices :
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/141850/HP-Pavilion-DV2085-(T2400-1GB-120GB-DVD+-RW-14-inchTFT-WXP-Home)-prijzen.html

* Asus A8Jc (T2300E;14″ TFT;1GB;100GB;GF7300)

regarding the videomemory it seems to be 128 dedicated + 128 mb shared

There are multiple models but between these models.

There are multiple A8Jc types and I'm not exactly sure what the differences are but I guess they all use the same chipsets.

A8Jc-H033H looks best on first look.

dutch link for prices :
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/498/all?keyword=A8Jc+14%22&catID=498&scoreMin=&scoreMax=5&priceMin=0&priceMax=&land=&orderField=prijs&orderSort=asc

More general information about Asus A8 laptops in dutch :
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1138266///?limit=999

More information (regarding Ubuntu on this laptop) :
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/AsusA8Jc
http://www.willempen.org/asus-a8jc-on-linux/
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1382213&postcount=9

* Asus S62J-H044 (T2400,14.1",1 GB , 100 GB, geforce7300)

-"barebone" which means I can customize it, I don't have to pay for windows and they build it
-optionally with 2 GB ram for 1268 euro (where as it costs about 1600 euro for the macbook with 2 GB)
-Compared to the A8Jc this laptop is a bit more expensive but it comes with a faster processor and without a couple of things : windows, a bag and a mouse.
-I can't find test information about Ubuntu on it :(

Pictures :
http://dump.johnvh.nl/images/S62J.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.com/ASUS-S62J-T2600-2GB-100GB-DVDRW-w-Webcam_W0QQitemZ180022661661QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.geared2play.com/store/products/laptops/asus/s62j/s62j.htm

More information :
http://geared2play.com/phpbb/nfphpbb/viewtopic.php?t=578
http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/emea/eng/283358.htm
http://www.laptops4u.nl/cmsdownloads/Verified_by_Intel.pdf

More information (dutch but probably understandable for non-dutch people) :
http://www.laptops4u.nl/info/s62j-h044-1011.html

More dutch links (not Ubuntu specific) :
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/view_message/26145652
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/view_message/26125237

* Dell XPS M1210 (T2300;12.1″ TFT;1GB;60GB;intel GMA 950)

The differences from the standard model I selected :
1 year On-site service
US Intl - (QWERTY) - Internal Keyboard
1024MB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (2x512)
Primary 9-cell 80WHr Li-Ion Battery

If I would go for 2GB 667mhz instead it would become about 1480 euro. For 1570 euro it comes with 2 GB memory and a Core 2 Duo processor and some other improvements. But 1480 euro is far over my budget.

But sadly I don't know of a way to look at the laptop in real life before buying it.

More information (regarding Ubuntu on this laptop) :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=199717
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/DellXPSM1210
http://g33k.wordpress.com/2006/07/20/the-dell-xps-m1210-a-mini-review/
http://toufeeq.blogspot.com/2006/07/linux-on-dell-xps-m1210.html
http://imaging.ugent.be/mr/Suse/suse-m1210.html

* Fujitsu-Siemens AMILO Si 1520 (T2300,12" TFT,1GB,100GB,intel GMA 950)

Fujitsu-Siemens doesn't sound like an A-brand to me.

This laptop only has 533 mhz memory instead of 667 mhz.

dutch link for prices :
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/143232/Fujitsu-Siemens-Amilo-Si-1520-(Core-Duo-T2300-1GB-100GB-DVD+-RW-12-inchTFT-WXP-Home)-prijzen.html

More information (regarding Ubuntu on this laptop) :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=252011
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=208957
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1428208&postcount=54

* MSI S262 ( 12.1" TFT,Core Duo T2300E; 1GB; 100GB;videochip unclear probably intel GMA 950)

The MSI 262 looks good, has nice specs and according to the wiki there are no major problems with it in Ubuntu.

I remember someone showing some white MSI laptop to me sometime and it looked allright.

Con :
- I don't consider MSI to being an A grade brand. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The specs of the S262 look alright :
http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/notebook/nb/pro_nb_detail.php?UID=618
http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=S262
http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1057

S262 on the wiki :
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/MSIMegaBookS262

dutch links for prices :
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/142137/MSI-Megabook-S262B-038NL-(Core-Duo-T2300E-1GB-100GB-DVD+-RW-12.1-inch-TFT-WXP-Home)-prijzen.html
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/609/all?keyword=262&catID=609&scoreMin=&scoreMax=5&priceMin=0&priceMax=&land=

The wiki confuses me a bit. It says :
"Video: Integrated Intel i845gm" while to two pages it links to say Intel GMA 950 and the other MSI page about the S262 doesn't say anything about the videochip.

picture :
http://www.msi-computer.nl/perscentrum/persbericht/persbericht_MSI_MegabookS262/images/NB_S262_w2_pho.jpg

german site which sells the S262 :
-they build it
-without OS
-customizable
-2 years pickup warranty for the netherlands for 29 euros
- a really cool laptop with 2 GB of ram and 8 cell battery possible almost within my budget

http://www.alb-computer.de/product_info.php?products_id=15225&cPath=81_83
http://www.alb-computer.de/product_info.php?products_id=15224&cPath=81_83



Grundsystem: MSI S262 Barebone black 555,00 EUR
Sprache / Layout: Layout: English (UK) 0,00 EUR
Prozessor: Intel Prozessor Mobil - T2400 Core Duo 1.83 GHz 269,00 EUR
Festplatte: 2.5 Harddrive 80GB PATA 5400rpm 79,00 EUR
Arbeitsspeicher: 2x SO 1024MB PC667 DDRII RAM 156,00 EUR
Laufwerk: Sony CRX835E Combo 24x/24x/24x/8x Slim Line 49,00 EUR
Wireless LAN: Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Mini-PCI Express - 54M/Bit 37,00 EUR
Akku: 8 Zellen Batterie 4.400 mAh S260/S262/S270 89,01 EUR
Service: Warranty PICK-UP Service 24 months for AT/BE/NL/LU 29,00 EUR

Grundsystem: 555,00 EUR
Komponenten: 708,01 EUR
--------------------------------
Gesamt: 1.263,01 EUR
(inkl. MwSt. zzgl. Versand)


With the T2500 2 GHz cpu it's a bit more expensive :



Grundsystem: MSI S262 Barebone black 555,00 EUR
Sprache / Layout: Layout: English (UK) 0,00 EUR
Prozessor: Intel Prozessor Mobil - T2500 Core Duo 2.00 GHz 349,00 EUR
Festplatte: 2.5 Harddrive 80GB PATA 5400rpm 79,00 EUR
Arbeitsspeicher: 2x SO 1024MB PC667 DDRII RAM 156,00 EUR
Laufwerk: Sony CRX835E Combo 24x/24x/24x/8x Slim Line 49,00 EUR
Wireless LAN: Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Mini-PCI Express - 54M/Bit 37,00 EUR
Akku: 8 Zellen Batterie 4.400 mAh S260/S262/S270 89,01 EUR
Service: Warranty PICK-UP Service 24 months for AT/BE/NL/LU 29,00 EUR

Grundsystem: 555,00 EUR
Komponenten: 788,01 EUR
--------------------------------
Gesamt: 1.343,01 EUR
(inkl. MwSt. zzgl. Versand)


dutch review :
http://www.hardwareonline.be/modules/news/article.php?storyid=494

old dutch pre-production preview of the S262 :
http://www.pcmweb.nl/hardware_review.jsp?productid=82

dutch link comparing S262 , macbook and Asus A8Jc :
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1136076

dutch link discussing MSI Megabook S2x0 series :
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1098331/0

dutch links discussing 12" notebooks :
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1062275/last//s262

* or maybe another similar laptop model ?

Which one would you guys advise ?

I also posted on my blog about this here :
http://ubuntudemon.wordpress.com/2006/09/09/possible-laptops-feedback-request/

[Donnut]

Well, I am planning on a new macbook myself, gettong it on the 29th or 30th.

As for it's compatibility, I'm going to go to a mac store with an ubuntu live cd and check it out. And I'm going to use grub or Lilo to quad boot! It'll be a fun project.

[ayoli]

dell is well known for battery problems: short life, burning batteries (http://fr.news.yahoo.com/31072006/308/combustions-spontanees-de-portables-encore-un-autre-cas.html sorry article in french but photos tell much than words).
i use toshiba which are quite linux friendly, i had a s3000 and now a satellite L10 with dont fit really your needs but cost less money (i wish i'll have 1200 one day for a laptop...;) )
this one looks nice:
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmod.to?seg=HHO&coid=-31395
regards.

[ubuntu_demon]

dell is well known for battery problems: short life, burning batteries (http://fr.news.yahoo.com/31072006/308/combustions-spontanees-de-portables-encore-un-autre-cas.html sorry article in french but photos tell much than words).
i use toshiba which are quite linux friendly, i had a s3000 and now a satellite L10 with dont fit really your needs but cost less money (i wish i'll have 1200 one day for a laptop...;) )
this one looks nice:
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmod.to?seg=HHO&coid=-31395
regards.
thanks for the suggestion.

AFAIK toshiba doesn't have models below 15" that are also about/below 1200 euros. So I don't think toshiba is an option.

[hubuntu]

Hei!

I just had to givce you a recomendation:

Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo Pro V3205

1,8 Kg
Bluetooth
12,1 " Crystal view

An lightweight laptop costing just below 1200 euro. It works perfectly with dapper (even bluetooth works), besides the Memory Stick reader (MMC & SD Works)... :)

Take a look.

Good luck!

[ubuntu_demon]

Hei!

I just had to givce you a recomendation:

Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo Pro V3205

1,8 Kg
Bluetooth
12,1 " Crystal view

An lightweight laptop costing just below 1200 euro. It works perfectly with dapper (even bluetooth works), besides the Memory Stick reader (MMC & SD Works)... :)

Take a look.

Good luck!
Thanks for the information!

sadly I can't find this laptop here :
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch

which probably means this laptop is probably not (very much) available in the netherlands.

The Fujitsu-Siemens AMILO Si 1520 laptop is available in the netherlands. Maybe it's the same one ???

[ayoli]

thanks for the suggestion.

AFAIK toshiba doesn't have models below 15" that are also about/below 1200 euros. So I don't think toshiba is an option.

you didnt look right this model (http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmod.to?seg=HHO&coid=-31395) is from 1099 $ and has a 12,1 widescreennd a battery that works until 5hours, just need to add some ram

[ubuntu_demon]

you didnt look right this model (http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmod.to?seg=HHO&coid=-31395) is from 1099 $ and has a 12,1 widescreennd a battery that works until 5hours, just need to add some ram

Sadly this laptop doesn't seem to be available in the netherlands.

The tecra section on the dutch toshiba website doesn't show the tecra M6 :
http://nl.computers.toshiba-europe.com/cgi-bin/ToshibaCSG/jsp/familyHomepage.do?service=NL&FAMILY_ID=2328

The cheapest 12.1" toshiba laptop according to tweakers.net/pricewatch comes for 1327 Euro and doesn't have Core Duo :
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/504/all?keyword=12.1%22&catID=504&scoreMin=&scoreMax=5&priceMin=0&priceMax=&land=

[ayoli]

Sadly this laptop doesn't seem to be available in the netherlands.

The tecra section on the dutch toshiba website doesn't show the tecra M6 :
http://nl.computers.toshiba-europe.com/cgi-bin/ToshibaCSG/jsp/familyHomepage.do?service=NL&FAMILY_ID=2328

The cheapest 12.1" toshiba laptop according to tweakers.net/pricewatch comes for 1327 Euro and doesn't have Core Duo :
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/504/all?keyword=12.1%22&catID=504&scoreMin=&scoreMax=5&priceMin=0&priceMax=&land=

you're right, just seen that, too bad.

[ayoli]

sorry to insist on toshiba ;) have a look on this model 12,1 core duo 1199euros:
http://www.rueducommerce.fr/Mobilite-Telephonie/Ordinateurs-Portables/Ordinateurs-Portables-de-Marque/TOSHIBA/378794-Portable-Satellite-U200-163-Intel-Core-Duo-T2300E-1-66-GHz-Ecran-12-1.htm
this is the french site where i've bought my laptops.
after i stop boring you with toshiba which are very good laptops IHMO :D

[jogege]

Seems my laptop search is going the same way as yours. I have also looked at practically all these same laptops.

The amilo si1520 is the same as the pro v3200. Cant get too much info about it on the net though so havent made my mind up about this.

The Asus A8jc or A8f is also a really good option. 2 years warranty is also a definite bonus.

I thought about the Dell m1210 but its too pricey as far as am concerned and I am not willing to pay for an extended warranty. The Macbook is a very lovely choice but the random shutdowns, heat all other such hastles is just not worth it.

I just came accross the Rock Pegasus 330 a couple of days ago. Not an A grade manufacturer but then 3 years Carraige and return warranty. And how many manufacturers have forums where staff help out users? It starts from £899 and is a definite option for me now.

http://www.rockdirect.com/viewNotebook.php?pName=PEGASUS%20330

Have a look on the forums at:

http://www.rockforum.co.uk

In between the Asus and the Pegasus, I might go for the pegasus since an ultra portable is my main choice and 14" is too big IMO.

The Thinkpad X series would have to be about the best option for an ultra portable but I really cannot afford to buy a thinkpad.

[ubuntu_demon]

sorry to insist on toshiba ;) have a look on this model 12,1 core duo 1199euros:
http://www.rueducommerce.fr/Mobilite-Telephonie/Ordinateurs-Portables/Ordinateurs-Portables-de-Marque/TOSHIBA/378794-Portable-Satellite-U200-163-Intel-Core-Duo-T2300E-1-66-GHz-Ecran-12-1.htm
this is the french site where i've bought my laptops.
after i stop boring you with toshiba which are very good laptops IHMO :D
The Toshiba U200 starts at 1350 euros in the netherlands which is a bit expensive. (1200 euros is a LOT of money for me)

[rapha]

Hi, just recommended System76 to you on your blog without reading here first. I live in Germany (guess that makes us neighbours :) ) and had absolutely no problems purchasing a System76 laptop. Shipping _is_ a bit costly, but I'm guessing you could still get a Serval within your 1200EUR requirements.

-- Raphael

[ubuntu_demon]

Seems my laptop search is going the same way as yours. I have also looked at practically all these same laptops.


Great then we can help eachother :)

Please share relevant links to reviews and stuff you have :)



The amilo si1520 is the same as the pro v3200. Cant get too much info about it on the net though so havent made my mind up about this.


Thanks for the info!

Do you have some links with information about running Ubuntu / Linux on it ?

How do you feel about Fujitsu-Siemens in general ? Do you regard them as an A brand ?



The Asus A8jc or A8f is also a really good option. 2 years warranty is also a definite bonus.


Yeah the A8Jc looks like a very good option to me.



I thought about the Dell m1210 but its too pricey as far as am concerned and I am not willing to pay for an extended warranty. The Macbook is a very lovely choice but the random shutdowns, heat all other such hastles is just not worth it.


The macbook looks good but I don't want the risk on heat problems and random shutdowns. I have no idea what kind of percentage of macbook users are experiencing this though.

Dell also had some problems with it's batteries. I don't know about this specific model though.



I just came accross the Rock Pegasus 330 a couple of days ago. Not an A grade manufacturer but then 3 years Carraige and return warranty. And how many manufacturers have forums where staff help out users? It starts from £899 and is a definite option for me now.

http://www.rockdirect.com/viewNotebook.php?pName=PEGASUS%20330

Have a look on the forums at:

http://www.rockforum.co.uk

In between the Asus and the Pegasus, I might go for the pegasus since an ultra portable is my main choice and 14" is too big IMO.


AFAIK the pegasus 330 isn't available in the netherlands.



The Thinkpad X series would have to be about the best option for an ultra portable but I really cannot afford to buy a thinkpad.

I don't want to pay more than 1200 euros for a laptop which is already a LOT of money.

editted

[ubuntu_demon]

Hi, just recommended System76 to you on your blog without reading here first. I live in Germany (guess that makes us neighbours :) ) and had absolutely no problems purchasing a System76 laptop. Shipping _is_ a bit costly, but I'm guessing you could still get a Serval within your 1200EUR requirements.

-- Raphael
thanks for the suggestion :)

I want to the laptop buy from a dutch company because :
1) I don't want to spend a lot of money on shipping
2) if something is wrong and I need to send it back then I don't want to have to send it to another country (which takes time and a lot of money)

[mips]

The System76 laptops are Asus. Getting the same Asus model will save you a considerable amount money. The only thing you wont get is Ubuntu pre-installed.

[rapha]

The System76 laptops are Asus. Getting the same Asus model will save you a considerable amount money. The only thing you wont get is Ubuntu pre-installed.

Plus no way cool system76 branding. I know. I've become somewhat of a fanboy ;-).

[ubuntu_demon]

I added this one to the list :

* Asus S62J-H044 (T2400,14.1",1 GB , 100 GB, geforce7300)

-"barebone" which means I can customize it, I don't have to pay for windows and they build it
-optionally with 2 GB ram for 1268 euro (where as it costs about 1600 euro for the macbook with 2 GB)
-Compared to the A8Jc this laptop is a bit more expensive but it comes with a faster processor and without a couple of things : windows, a bag and a mouse.

Pictures :
http://dump.johnvh.nl/images/S62J.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.com/ASUS-S62J-T2600-2GB-100GB-DVDRW-w-Webcam_W0QQitemZ180022661661QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.geared2play.com/store/products/laptops/asus/s62j/s62j.htm

More information :
http://geared2play.com/phpbb/nfphpbb/viewtopic.php?t=578
http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/emea/eng/283358.htm
http://www.laptops4u.nl/cmsdownloads/Verified_by_Intel.pdf

More information (dutch but probably understandable for non-dutch people) :
http://www.laptops4u.nl/info/s62j-h044-1011.html

More dutch links (not Ubuntu specific) :
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/view_message/26145652
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/view_message/26125237

[huygens]

Do you have any "evidence" to support this ?

I'm new to laptops. I thought laptops would have been matured enough to be able to use them for at least 2 years.

How expensive is a new battery pack on average 18-24 months after you have bought your laptop ?

I have a Dell Latitude D600, although Dapper is working like a charm on it, it does not fit into your requirements for a laptop.
But my post aim at answering you about the battery. I have been using quite a lot the battery, and after 2,5 years there are still perfect. On Windows I still go often over 4 hours without recharging and while using the wireless network. So not too bad ;-) However, Linux does not compare so well in this regard. It consumes much more. So when I reach 3 hours I am happy with it...
But the battery still works (and I do not have to send them back to Dell ;-) ) and it does not seems that they have lost their quality. My autonomy is still quite good :-)

Huygens

[mips]

Plus no way cool system76 branding. I know. I've become somewhat of a fanboy ;-).

For $300 you can keep the logo :wink:

[huygens]

dell is well known for battery problems: short life, burning batteries (http://fr.news.yahoo.com/31072006/308/combustions-spontanees-de-portables-encore-un-autre-cas.html sorry article in french but photos tell much than words).

The problem is only happening on some Dell computers that had some battery from Sony made during a certain period. This still represent 4 millions battery. But if you buy one Dell now, I do not think it will be one of those ;-). The same apply for Apple.
So once again, I have a Dell laptop since 2,5 years, and most of my collegues do have one also since at least the same period. And we did not have any problem with them. The autonomy is high, and did not really decreased after all those years. You should notice, that the model I and my collegues have are "enterprise" model, the Latitude D600. Normal customers can also buy it, but it is maybe more expensive than other similar ones intended for public.

Btw, I did buy a MacBook which I should receive next Tuesday. However, this is intended for my girlfriend, who does not seem willing that I try to install Ubuntu on it ;-) I will have to slowly persuade her...
For the what you get for what you pay, I thought it was the best. And it was covering the needs we had identified for my girlfriend. So, I guess she is going to be happy with it, and happy not to fight every day agains the absurdities of Windows...

Huygens

[ubuntu_demon]

The HP DV2085 and macbook 13,3 have become less interesting to me.

I've updated the post with possible models a little :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1475956&postcount=32

[m.musashi]

Personally, and I have a fair amount of experience with laptops, I think you will be best off with a name brand. You will have fewer compatibility issues with Ubuntu and warranty support.

You may also have to pay to the windows tax but on a name brand pc this is in the $50 range. When you consider the added benefits of compatibility and warranty support over custum builds it's probably worth it.

The Dell xps 1210 starts at $1200 (about 950 euros) but that is the US price. I don't know about in Europe. You can customize it quite a bit and find the right match of components to price.

The Dell battery problem isn't a problem on new computers. Also, Dell is replacing the deffective ones for free.

I have an inspiron 600m running ubuntu and it works fine. It recognized the wireless on install and no hardware support issues at all. I have also installed and used ubuntu and several lattitude models. If you have a way to buy one of these I think they are better than the inspiron (they are business class and very nice). Am currently using a latitude d820 with ubuntu. It's much bigger than what you want but runs perfectly. The d620 is a nice compromize in size and cost. The d420 is amazingly small and if I had the cash would be my next laptop.

Having said all that, I think a mac would also be a good choice. I have no experience with them but everyone who has them seems to love them. They do seem to have a price premium that is more than the windows tax but then osx is probably a better os than windows.

Just some thoughts.

[mips]

Fujitsu-Siemens, I had one for less than a day. Could not get the ethernet port to talk to my adsl router under windows&linux. Heard from others that they are not happy with their purchase. Must say the local tech support people were great but could not help me.

[red_Marvin]

I have lurked in threads as this for a long time, but never bought anything:-k (decisions, money etc.)
But right now I'm interested in this one (Swedish site, but you should be able to get the specs more or less)

ASUS A8F 14" WXGA, Core Duo T2050,512 MB,80GB,DVD±RW,WLAN/BT,XPP:
http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=324595
Price: 9495 SEK ~1292 USD
Anyone have any experience from this?

the other candidate is a macbook...

[ubuntu_demon]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

Sadly the Dell Latitude D420 starts at € 1.469 which is over my budget (about 1200 euros).

The D820 starts at 1499 euros and is therefor over my budget.

The D620 is also over my budget.

Dell Latitude D620 is 1.494 euros with the following options :

The options I choose :
No Business Support Required
No Complete Care
1.0GB, 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM Memory (1 x 1024MB)
Dicota Backpack Style (Black) (the option "no bag" wasn't available)
9 Cell Primary battery (85 WHr) for maximum battery life

[o_fortuna]

Have you looked at HP? I can't read nl sites, but this one looks nice (14.1" screen - is that too big?):

http://www.takeitnow.nl/redir.cgi?page=index.html&what=fp.html&by=http://www.takeitnow.nl/tin.cgi?a_ssrp=1&toplink=1&d_word=EW490EA%23ABH
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/nl/nl/ho/WF06a/22797-186289-316149-316149-316149-12320336.html

It has an Intel graphics accelerator (open source drivers), core duo, 1GB memory, 100GB hard drive; etc. I don't know about super battery life -- looks like a 6-cell.

On the other hand, it's 1095.34 with VAT (at the first link). Sure, it comes with Windows, but those are the breaks -- big-name A-list manufacturers have Windows. Maybe you could talk to them and see if you can get it a bit cheaper (probably about 50$) without Windows?

[m.musashi]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

Sadly the Dell Latitude D420 starts at € 1.469 which is over my budget (about 1200 euros).

The D820 starts at 1499 euros and is therefor over my budget.

The D620 is also over my budget.

Dell Latitude D620 is 1.494 euros with the following options :

The options I choose :
No Business Support Required
No Complete Care
1.0GB, 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM Memory (1 x 1024MB)
Dicota Backpack Style (Black) (the option "no bag" wasn't available)
9 Cell Primary battery (85 WHr) for maximum battery life

I bought the latitudes for my work, which is a school, so the prices may be lower than what you can get.

Still, I would think the xps 1210 should fit your budget - depending on how you configure it. These are a step or more up from the 600m I have so I doubt you can go wrong. I have no complaints about the 600m at all. If you are investing pretty much all you have on this you won't want to end up with something less than you expected or prone to hardware problems or with questionable warranty support. The other name brands will probably work out just as well, but I think they tend to be a bit higher for what you get. Of course, you have the option to look at them and play with them in a store. Although you might be able to find someone who owns a similar laptop and would let you look it over. Hang out in a college library or coffee shop and scope out what other people are using.

[ubuntu_demon]

Have you looked at HP? I can't read nl sites, but this one looks nice (14.1" screen - is that too big?):

http://www.takeitnow.nl/redir.cgi?page=index.html&what=fp.html&by=http://www.takeitnow.nl/tin.cgi?a_ssrp=1&toplink=1&d_word=EW490EA%23ABH
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/nl/nl/ho/WF06a/22797-186289-316149-316149-316149-12320336.html

It has an Intel graphics accelerator (open source drivers), core duo, 1GB memory, 100GB hard drive; etc. I don't know about super battery life -- looks like a 6-cell.

On the other hand, it's 1095.34 with VAT (at the first link). Sure, it comes with Windows, but those are the breaks -- big-name A-list manufacturers have Windows. Maybe you could talk to them and see if you can get it a bit cheaper (probably about 50$) without Windows?
Thanks for the suggestion.

I considered it already but it only supports 533 mhz memory and other comparable laptops (such as the HP DV2085) had better specs.

[ubuntu_demon]

I bought the latitudes for my work, which is a school, so the prices may be lower than what you can get.

Still, I would think the xps 1210 should fit your budget - depending on how you configure it. These are a step or more up from the 600m I have so I doubt you can go wrong. I have no complaints about the 600m at all. If you are investing pretty much all you have on this you won't want to end up with something less than you expected or prone to hardware problems or with questionable warranty support. The other name brands will probably work out just as well, but I think they tend to be a bit higher for what you get. Of course, you have the option to look at them and play with them in a store. Although you might be able to find someone who owns a similar laptop and would let you look it over. Hang out in a college library or coffee shop and scope out what other people are using.

Dell XPS M1210 (T2300;12.1″ TFT;1GB;60GB;intel GMA 950)

The differences from the standard model I selected :
1 year On-site service
US Intl - (QWERTY) - Internal Keyboard
1024MB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (2x512)
Primary 9-cell 80WHr Li-Ion Battery

price : € 1.238,25

The warranty options for Dell are very expensive. With these option I could afford the dell but the Asus laptops have 2 years of warranty on default.

The Dell XPS M1210 remains an option.

I compiled a bit more information on this dell here :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1475956&postcount=32

[H.E. Pennypacker]

I would have suggested you wait till Black Friday or Cyber Monday if you lived in the United States. I bet no other country has days like Black Friday and Cyber Monday! Oh, thank God, these two days are loveable.

[PlasticZak]

I bought a version of the MSI S270. It works nicely with Linux, except for the SD card reader. Even the 'www' button brings up firefox - out of the Ubuntu box! The WLAN card I got is a Ralink which works fine with a native driver, but some S270s are sold with different cards which need Ndiswrapper. Hibernation works, battery meter works...

Best thing was the price: E 699 including shipping for a 12" laptop. Battery life is okay, at 3+ hours with WLAN on and web browing at max brightness. At full CPU load battery life is way lower, as my laptop has a Turion ML-30 and not an MT-30 or similar.

Sadly, I see that Medionshop is out of these laptops.

Extra battery was 60 euro, so I got one. Disadvantage: the fan is a bit noisy and switches on/off. I hear the MSI S260 (and the S262 may be similar) are better in that aspect, but these are more expensive. There are two types of battery for the MSI 12" laptops. The 8 cell, which I have, sticks out behind the laptop. The 4 cell is flush with the back.

The case is rigid and made of metal. The keyboard is a bit wobbly though.

If you look around you can find these laptops for even less money. Lidl had them with the MT-30 CPU and a TV card for E 599...

[ubuntu_demon]

I bought a version of the MSI S270. It works nicely with Linux, except for the SD card reader. Even the 'www' button brings up firefox - out of the Ubuntu box! The WLAN card I got is a Ralink which works fine with a native driver, but some S270s are sold with different cards which need Ndiswrapper. Hibernation works, battery meter works...

Best thing was the price: E 699 including shipping for a 12" laptop. Battery life is okay, at 3+ hours with WLAN on and web browing at max brightness. At full CPU load battery life is way lower, as my laptop has a Turion ML-30 and not an MT-30 or similar.

Sadly, I see that Medionshop is out of these laptops.

Extra battery was 60 euro, so I got one. Disadvantage: the fan is a bit noisy and switches on/off. I hear the MSI S260 (and the S262 may be similar) are better in that aspect, but these are more expensive. There are two types of battery for the MSI 12" laptops. The 8 cell, which I have, sticks out behind the laptop. The 4 cell is flush with the back.

The case is rigid and made of metal. The keyboard is a bit wobbly though.

If you look around you can find these laptops for even less money. Lidl had them with the MT-30 CPU and a TV card for E 599...

Thanks for the suggestion.

Con :
- I don't consider MSI to being an A grade brand. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I have added this laptop (MSI S262 / MS-1057)to the list of options. This one looks very promising! Here's more information :
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1475956&postcount=32

[m.musashi]

Dell XPS M1210 (T2300;12.1″ TFT;1GB;60GB;intel GMA 950)

The differences from the standard model I selected :
1 year On-site service
US Intl - (QWERTY) - Internal Keyboard
1024MB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (2x512)
Primary 9-cell 80WHr Li-Ion Battery

price : € 1.238,25

The warranty options for Dell are very expensive. With these option I could afford the dell but the Asus laptops have 2 years of warranty on default.

The Dell XPS M1210 remains an option.

I compiled a bit more information on this dell here :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1475956&postcount=32

I don't know much about the asus laptops. They may be great or maybe a 1 year dell warranty is better than 2 years with an asus. I can't say. That will probably have to be something to weigh. If I knew a lot about the asus I might say go with one of those. However, I do know a lot about the dell laptops and I don't think you can go wrong (although a longer warranty would be nice). However, we have several of these at work and they all get a fair amount of use. Even though we have 3 year warranties, I have not had to use the warranty except on one of them and that was less than a year after we bought it and it needed a new motherboard. Obviously not something you want to happen but I think motherboard problems will surface rather quickly. In our case it was the lan that went out. With a laptop, all this stuff is integrated so you just can't replace the lan card - it has to be the whole motherboard.

Another thought, we have a store in town called Computer Renaissance. Although it's a kind of chain, I doubt they have them overseas. However, there are probably similar business around. These guys will custom build computers and laptops. Their prices are competitive and you can specify just about any configuration. The bonus is that they will build a computer without an OS and then you can put on whatever you want. You might need to research a bit to be sure everything would be supported under ubuntu but this type of approach would give you maximum configurability and might save you a little. You would also have local support in case of problems.

Anyway, just another thought. I had them build me a custom desktop based on the processor/motherboard I wanted. I am very happy.

[ubuntu_demon]

I don't know much about the asus laptops. They may be great or maybe a 1 year dell warranty is better than 2 years with an asus. I can't say. That will probably have to be something to weigh. If I knew a lot about the asus I might say go with one of those. However, I do know a lot about the dell laptops and I don't think you can go wrong (although a longer warranty would be nice). However, we have several of these at work and they all get a fair amount of use. Even though we have 3 year warranties, I have not had to use the warranty except on one of them and that was less than a year after we bought it and it needed a new motherboard. Obviously not something you want to happen but I think motherboard problems will surface rather quickly. In our case it was the lan that went out. With a laptop, all this stuff is integrated so you just can't replace the lan card - it has to be the whole motherboard.


Thanks for your ideas on this matter.



Another thought, we have a store in town called Computer Renaissance. Although it's a kind of chain, I doubt they have them overseas. However, there are probably similar business around. These guys will custom build computers and laptops. Their prices are competitive and you can specify just about any configuration. The bonus is that they will build a computer without an OS and then you can put on whatever you want. You might need to research a bit to be sure everything would be supported under ubuntu but this type of approach would give you maximum configurability and might save you a little. You would also have local support in case of problems.

Anyway, just another thought. I had them build me a custom desktop based on the processor/motherboard I wanted. I am very happy.

What about the MSI S262 ? I can customize it a bit and order it from a German shop. But they have also a 2 years pick up warranty for the netherlands available for 29 euros.

I've added it to my list of possible laptops here :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1475956&postcount=32

I would very much like feedback on it from everyone who has an opionion on it :).

[m.musashi]

What about the MSI S262 ? I can customize it a bit and order it from a German shop. But they have also a 2 years pick up warranty for the netherlands available for 29 euros.

I've added it to my list of possible laptops here :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1475956&postcount=32

I would very much like feedback on it from everyone who has an opionion on it :).
I can't say much about the MSI. The specs look good and they are similar to most everything else. I think the real question is who do you feel comfortable buying from? I could have bought the desktop I recently had built from an online retailer for about $200 less. However, they didn't have real good reviews and I didn't feel comfortable buying my first custom build from a company I knew nothing about. I opted to go with a local store and they helped me a lot with various questions and even let me swap out the motherboard when I had problems with it and Ubuntu. If you feel comfortable with the MSI computer and the company and you get what you want without paying for want you don't then it might be worthwhile. If you don't feel good about that business, go with your gut feelings and buy somewhere else. I take it the 1200 euros is big chunk of change for you. It can sometimes be worthwhile to opt for slightly less than you want to get a bit more piece of mind.

Anyway, just a few more thoughts.

[ubuntu_demon]

I can't say much about the MSI. The specs look good and they are similar to most everything else. I think the real question is who do you feel comfortable buying from? I could have bought the desktop I recently had built from an online retailer for about $200 less. However, they didn't have real good reviews and I didn't feel comfortable buying my first custom build from a company I knew nothing about. I opted to go with a local store and they helped me a lot with various questions and even let me swap out the motherboard when I had problems with it and Ubuntu. If you feel comfortable with the MSI computer and the company and you get what you want without paying for want you don't then it might be worthwhile. If you don't feel good about that business, go with your gut feelings and buy somewhere else. I take it the 1200 euros is big chunk of change for you. It can sometimes be worthwhile to opt for slightly less than you want to get a bit more piece of mind.

Anyway, just a few more thoughts.

Thanks for your thoughts. I really appreciate it.

Both the Asus and MSI laptops have better warranty support than the Fujitsu and Dell (where more than 1 year of warranty support is really expensive).

If I would decide to buy the MSI laptop or the Asus S72J then I wouldn't have to pay for windows. I really dislike this windows lock-in for the other laptops. If you compare just these two laptops then I have a far better feeling about the MSI.

I have no idea how good the Asus S62J-H044 will work with Ubuntu while the MSI has been tested on the Ubuntu wiki :
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/MSIMegaBookS262
ZakElep who is an Ubuntu Member owns and has tested this MSI laptop.

Ofcourse this comparison is a bit unfair because I don't compare the Fujitsu and Dell just because they come with windows and have more expensive warranty support.

laptops with 2 GB ram price comparison :

MSI :
1.263,01 EUR
1.343,01 EUR with a 2 GHZ T2500 processor

The dell :

The differences from the standard model I selected :
1 year On-site service
US Intl - (QWERTY) - Internal Keyboard
1024MB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (2x512)
Primary 9-cell 80WHr Li-Ion Battery

If I would go for 2GB 667mhz instead it would become about 1480 euro. For 1570 euro it comes with 2 GB memory and a Core 2 Duo processor and some other improvements. But 1480 euro is far over my budget and I'm not willing (and probably not able) to spend that much.

The Asus S62J-H044 :
With the options I selected and 2 GB ram it will cost about 1268 euro.

The Fujitsu :
Doesn't come with 667 mhz memory. Will be at least 1200 euros with 2 GB of ram.

For now the MSI looks best :)

[ubuntu_demon]

How long do you guys think I need to wait until Core 2 Duo becomes the default for models in this segment ?

I want to buy this laptop within a couple of weeks. I might wait until Edgy releases and Edgy laptop testing information becomes available. I don't want to wait much longer than that.

[chaosgeisterchen]

Wait for Core2Duo and then: go for it. It's the best you can get at the moment. Hopefully 1066-MHz-Ram will make its way into those Notebooks soon. Very soon :)

Performance like hell.

[ubuntu_demon]

Wait for Core2Duo and then: go for it. It's the best you can get at the moment. Hopefully 1066-MHz-Ram will make its way into those Notebooks soon. Very soon :)

Performance like hell.
How long do you think I need to wait for Core 2 Duo ?

[Miguel]

I personally wouldn't buy a "normal" Core 2 Duo in a 14", 13.3" or 12.1" laptop. From what I've read (basically notebookreview.com and tomshardware.com), they get hotter and have a larger TDP (and waay larger while at idle). That is, unless you need those 64bits badly (like number crunching or media encoding). However, the arrival of Merom will make your Core Duo laptop cheaper: the eternal dilemma.

[o_fortuna]

Question: you're a student, right? I don't know about in the Netherlands, but in the US, many companies (Apple and Dell, at least) have student discounts for college students. And Apple wants to give away free iPods ($179 rebate through this week). Like I said, maybe they aren't doing that in the Netherlands, but Dell looks like it gives about $50 off for students, so maybe it's an idea.

[m.musashi]

Wait for Core2Duo and then: go for it. It's the best you can get at the moment. Hopefully 1066-MHz-Ram will make its way into those Notebooks soon. Very soon :)

Performance like hell.

Is core 2 duo going to be a laptop processor? I know the core 2 duo is out as a desktop process and the core duo is the current laptop model. Are they going to keep the same names? Seems kind of confusing - or maybe not.

[ubuntu_demon]

Is core 2 duo going to be a laptop processor? I know the core 2 duo is out as a desktop process and the core duo is the current laptop model. Are they going to keep the same names? Seems kind of confusing - or maybe not.
AFAIK Core 2 Duo is going to be a laptop processor (also). The Core 2 Duo processors might use a little bit less power than the Core Duo processors.

[ubuntu_demon]

another possible model to watch :

Asus A8Js
http://www.laptopblog.org/entry/asus-a8js-geared-by-merom-and-nvidia-geforce-7700-introduced/
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=1373&l1=5&l2=26&l3=0

If it's affordable (probably not) and supports Ubuntu ofcourse. It seems very powerful but it is a ofcourse bit bigger than the 12" laptops such as the MSI S262.

[ubuntu_demon]

I discovered http://www.laptopblog.org

It seems a lot of laptop manufacturers are slowly going towards Core 2 Duo. Just maybe I get lucky and I will be able to afford a nice Core 2 Duo laptop for about 1200 euros within a few weeks.

1200 euros is a lot of money to me and probably my bankaccount will be below 0 quite a bit after I have bought a new laptop.

[ubuntu_demon]

Currently the MSI S262 looks best. But I have a few weeks of patience to come up with the best option.

[Sushi]

The Macbook is a good option IMO. One thing to consider: Not one dime of the cost of MacBook goes to MS. And even some other name-brand laptop that does not ship with Windows, still actively support Microsoft. Take a look at their website, and somewhere you will see that "XXXXXXX recommends Windows XP Professional".

[ubuntu_demon]

Any input/feedback/opinions on the MSI S262 ?
Currently it looks to me like the best option.

[weekend warrior]

Here's another criteria that may help you make a decision ubuntu_demon. I think it's worth considering the environmental record of the companies. From your possibilities list, Dell and HP are more environmentally responsible but Apple is very poor according to this comparison guide (http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/green-electronics-guide-ewaste250806). Just something to keep in mind.


HTH

[ubuntu_demon]

Here's another criteria that may help you make a decision ubuntu_demon. I think it's worth considering the environmental record of the companies. From your possibilities list, Dell and HP are more environmentally responsible but Apple is very poor according to this comparison guide (http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/green-electronics-guide-ewaste250806). Just something to keep in mind.


HTH
Thanks. They don't mention much brands though.

[ubuntu_demon]

The ahtec X20 and MSI S262 (from alb) look very interesting. They are the only 12" laptops I found which are available withouth windows. The specifications of these models look also very good for the price.

That's why this will be a comparison post.

ahtec sells 12" and 13" laptops.
www.ahtec.net / www.ahtec.nl

www.mingos.nl is a dutch company which sells 13" ahtec laptops preloaded with Ubuntu. I think they sell the ahtec X30. That's how I discovered the ahtec X20.

mingos.nl is more expensive than buying from ahtec directly though.

This 12" one looks nice (from ahtec directly) :


ahtec X20
without windows
T2300E
2 GB DDR-2 667mhz ram
12" 1200x800
intel GMA 950 (224 mb SMA means probably shared memory)
80GB SATA,5400 rpm
cd-rw / dvd combodrive
intel 3945 wireless
carrying bag
6 cell battery 4400mAh
2 years warranty (1st year pick up and return, 6 months for battery)
1135,26 euro (transport costs included)

1135.26 euro for T2300E
1194,76 euro for T2400
1254.26 euro for T2500


The biggest drawbacks I currently see for this ahtec X20 :
- I need to make sure it works perfectly with Ubuntu (maybe I can bring a live cd)
- the battery life is probably less than the battery life of the MSI S262 (6 cell vs 8 cell, ahtec site reports 2 - 2,5 hours of battery life)
- This laptop isn't very common and this is a lot of money to me. (I need to find people who actually own it and see whether they are happy about it)

For comparison the MSI S262 from ALB with similar options :
http://www.alb-computer.de/product_info.php?products_id=15224&cPath=81_83



Grundsystem: MSI S262 Barebone black 555,00 EUR
Sprache / Layout: Layout: English (UK) 0,00 EUR
Prozessor: Intel Prozessor Mobil - T2300 Core Duo 1.66 GHz 219,00 EUR
Festplatte: 2.5 Harddrive 80GB PATA 5400rpm 79,00 EUR
Arbeitsspeicher: 2x SO 1024MB PC667 DDRII RAM 156,00 EUR
Laufwerk: Sony CRX835E Combo 24x/24x/24x/8x Slim Line 49,00 EUR
Wireless LAN: Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Mini-PCI Express - 54M/Bit 37,00 EUR
Akku: 8 Zellen Batterie 4.400 mAh S260/S262/S270 89,01 EUR
Tasche: 12" Tasche universal inkl. Tragegriff / Zusatzfach 13,78 EUR
Service: Warranty PICK-UP Service 24 months for AT/BE/NL/LU 29,00 EUR

Grundsystem: 555,00 EUR
Komponenten: 671,79 EUR
--------------------------------
Gesamt: 1.226,79 EUR
(inkl. MwSt. zzgl. Versand)

transport costs : 19,90
total price : 1246,69 euro

1246,69 euro for T2300
1296,69 euro for T2400
1.376,69 euro for T2500


Some copy-pasted stuff about the MSI S262 :

The MSI 262 looks good, has nice specs and according to the wiki there are no major problems with it in Ubuntu.

I remember someone showing some white MSI laptop to me sometime ago and it looked nice.

Con :
- I don't consider MSI to being an A grade brand. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The specs of the S262 look alright :
http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/notebook/nb/pro_nb_detail.php?UID=618
http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=S262
http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1057

S262 on the wiki :
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/MSIMegaBookS262

The wiki confuses me a bit. It says :
"Video: Integrated Intel i845gm" instead of intel GMA 950.

dutch links for prices :
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/142137/MSI-Megabook-S262B-038NL-(Core-Duo-T2300E-1GB-100GB-DVD+-RW-12.1-inch-TFT-WXP-Home)-prijzen.html
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/609/all?keyword=262&catID=609&scoreMin=&scoreMax=5&priceMin=0&priceMax=&land=

picture :
http://www.msi-computer.nl/perscentrum/persbericht/persbericht_MSI_MegabookS262/images/NB_S262_w2_pho.jpg

german site (ALB) which sells the S262 :
-they build it
-without OS
-customizable
-2 years pickup warranty for the netherlands for 29 euros
http://www.alb-computer.de/product_info.php?products_id=15224&cPath=81_83

dutch review of the MSI S262 :
http://www.hardwareonline.be/modules/news/article.php?storyid=494

dutch link discussing MSI Megabook S2x0 series :
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1098331/0

dutch link discussing 12" notebooks :
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1062275

[ubuntu_demon]

So what do you guys think about this ahtec X20 ?

The specs look good but I should probably find some people who have it.

[ubuntu_demon]

My latest blog enty :
http://ubuntudemon.wordpress.com/2006/09/24/laptop-hunt-continues-feedback-request/

I have the following wishlist for my laptop :

* about 1200 euro (absolute max is 1300 euro)
* I don’t wish to pay for windows
* small and light laptop
* strong laptop of good quality
* needs to work perfectly with Ubuntu
* I want to be able to carry it everyday
* at most 14″ with (at least) 1200×800
* intel centrino
* T2300 Core Duo (preferably Core 2 Duo T7200 (merom))
* intel 3945 ABG wireless (ipw3945)
* 2 GB DDR-2 667mhz ram (or at least 1 GB in 1 slot and 1 slot free)
* intel GMA 950 (or a newer intel model)
* 60GB 5400rpm (or better)
* cd-rw / dvd combodrive
* US international qwerty keyboard
* 6-9 cell battery 4400mAh
* I want this battery to last at least 1 year but preferably longer
* I want to be able to work at least 2.5 hours on this laptop
* warranty 1 year pickup and return for the Netherlands
* optional : small laptop sleeve/carrying bag
* optional : bluetooth

Two laptops which meet this wishlist are :

ahtec X20 (www.ahtec.net):

* I need to make sure it works perfectly with Ubuntu
* The battery life is probably less than the battery life of the MSI S262 (6 cell vs 8 cell, ahtec site reports 2 - 2,5 hours of battery life)
* This laptop (brand) isn’t very common.
* I need to find people who actually own it and see whether they are happy about it.

MSI S262 (for example http://www.alb-computer.de) :

* The black MSI 262 looks good, has nice specs and according to the wiki there are no major problems with it in Ubuntu.
* It’s possible to buy a MSI S262 without windows and with my specification wishlist. MSI sells barebones to companies who build their laptops with it. There are some people who have some problems with these machines.

The dutch forum thread about my laptop search :
http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/topic/3066

A dutch forum thread about 12″ laptops (not ubuntu specific) :
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1062275

A dutch forum thread about MSI laptops (not ubuntu specific) :
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1098331

I’m very interested in your experience with these laptops. I’m very interested in suggestions for similar laptops.

Thanks for all your feedback!

[Mike Wazowski]

Hi!

You might be interested in the Comment I put on http://ubuntudemon.wordpress.com/2006/09/24/laptop-hunt-continues-feedback-request/#comment-1739

It's about my burning X20 Ahtec laptop.

It's a very nice laptop, would be the best I ever had hadn't it be for a burning hard disk. Both CPU and HD are hot, over 50 C in cold environment and without the CPU working, I mean the laptop is just turned on. Well, this wouldn't be a problem: not normal, but well.... But the touchpad is burning! And I mean it cannot be touched. I have to put some sort of tissue on top or something because it is really too hot for my right hand.
Of course, Ahtec is washing their hands on this: if it doesn't hang up, then it is OK.

Anyway... check the link above about the exact model of the laptop.

Cheers,
MW

[Spif]

Have you considered IBM/Lenevo X60/s?

Price is a bit higher than most other laptop brands, but it is quality!

[ubuntu_demon]

thank you very much for all the feedback!

I got an Ahtec X30. See :

(ubuntu_demon) : my new laptop : ahtec X30
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1620371

I bought my new laptop!
http://ubuntudemon.wordpress.com/2006/10/15/i-bought-my-new-laptop/