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th3james
August 29th, 2006, 11:37 AM
Just seen this article on Wired:

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/software/0,71660-0.html?tw=rss.index

It generally paints it in a positive light, what does everyone else think?

Carrots171
August 29th, 2006, 11:49 AM
"Enabling digital music, for example, requires installing about a dozen file packages (with bizarre names like "gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse"), and enduring occasional encounters with the terminal window to enter commands."

They should've mentioned Easy Ubutnu/Automatix. Getting MP3s and DVDs working is much easier that way.

_simon_
August 29th, 2006, 12:22 PM
Can Ubuntu completely replace Windows or Mac OS X?

Probably not. It doesn't work perfectly out of the box. And even if you do get it working smoothly, you may miss industry-standard professional programs, such as Photoshop and Adobe InDesign, or entertainment software such as iTunes and video games. The best strategy for most people is to run Ubuntu on the side as a hobby, gradually learning its intricacies. "Try things out before you really need to do them, so you avoid panic," said Grant.


It has replaced Windows for many people.

If I was still a windows user looking into linux that above statement might put me off trying Ubuntu.

Carrots171
August 29th, 2006, 01:29 PM
[Ubuntu] doesn't work perfectly out of the box.

I think this is one of the misleading parts of the article. Very often, Windows doesn't work "prefectly out of the box" (See the bottom link in my signature for an example). It just seems to because it comes pre-installed. You want Ubuntu to work "perfectly out of the box"? Get a computer with Linux pre-installed on it, E.G. System76!

AlphaMack
August 29th, 2006, 01:30 PM
It has replaced Windows for many people.

If I was still a windows user looking into linux that above statement might put me off trying Ubuntu.

Agreed. Excuse my French but hobby my ***. I chose Ubuntu as a replacement for Windows (and Mac OS X somewhat), not for something to play around with as if I had nothing better to do.
What cracked me up was the tidbit about wiping out the HDD on the spare computer (hello, backup?).

Conveniently, there was no mention of the likes of Automatix or Easy Ubuntu. And for those oh-so-necessary-so-called-industry-standard apps? No mention of WINE. Not that they would have worked for the most part. Or how about...uhm...dual booting?

You're right; if I was a switcher I would have had second thoughts about Ubuntu.

I, for one, frankly do not miss iTunes, Photoshop, or other overpriced garbage on my Ubuntu boxes. The GIMP does have its faults but once past the learning curve it isn't as bad.

File this article under F for FUD.

Carrots171
August 29th, 2006, 01:44 PM
I, for one, frankly do not miss iTunes, Photoshop, or other overpriced garbage on my Ubuntu boxes. The GIMP does have its faults but once past the learning curve it isn't as bad.

Even if you do miss iTunes, there are many Ubuntu apps that can replace it like Amarok, Banshee, and now Songbird.

djsroknrol
August 29th, 2006, 02:28 PM
The best strategy for most people is to run Ubuntu on the side as a hobby, gradually learning its intricacies.

Ubuntu as a hobby...what a concept...:p

richbarna
August 29th, 2006, 03:40 PM
Ok, how about this, let's look at the scenarios.

1. Tell everyone that Ubuntu is perfect, will do everything that you can do on Windows, and is easy to set up and configure, and on top of that it is free.

Result: None of this is true, let's be honest, and the people that try it go running scared and also tell everybody they know what a croc it is.

2. Write the article above, explaining that there will be some problems, some codecs are considered illegal but installable with an easy to use program like EasyUbuntu or Automatix. There is a difference between Ubuntu and Windows but the support forums are awesome.

Result: They try it as a dual-boot "expecting" a few problems, they don't get as many as they thought and consult the forums, find a supportive atmosphere that makes their first Linux experience a lot easier and as happy users they spread the word.

Ubuntu is good, but don't kid yourself it is perfect. I thought the article was ok, and he isn't comparing Ubuntu to Windows when mentions "out-of-the-box", that is just a quick term to describe works as you expect it too. So no "neither does windows ...blah blah...".

DoctorMO
August 29th, 2006, 03:43 PM
Will Ubuntu ever make it into the hobbiest market!?

Will this 'writer' ever make it to the mainstream?

lol

prizrak
August 29th, 2006, 04:44 PM
It seemed like a fairly balanced article. Automatix and EasyUbuntu should have been mentioned but the author is very likely not to know about them. Also stores like System76 should have been mentioned as a perfect way to try Linux w/o having to compromise your main machine.

3rdalbum
August 29th, 2006, 06:14 PM
I think it's a fair article. Linux can't completely replace Windows, but then Windows can't completely replace Linux. Ubuntu doesn't support everything out-of-the-box, but then Windows doesn't either; and the terminal commands are really just copy-and-paste. (Or rather, select then middle-click!)

SoundMachine
August 29th, 2006, 06:37 PM
It seemed like a fairly balanced article. Automatix and EasyUbuntu should have been mentioned but the author is very likely not to know about them. Also stores like System76 should have been mentioned as a perfect way to try Linux w/o having to compromise your main machine.

Well if you are going to use third party programs and not just an install then where do you stop?

Clean install off of the CD with provided drivers from the manufacturer and Windows wins 9/10 times when it comes to a perfectly working setup for the random system.

However, just like you wouldn't buy a SPARC machine to run windows on you shouldn't try to run Linux with hardware that it does not support.

Bezmotivnik
August 29th, 2006, 07:23 PM
It was pretty lightweight but probably accurate as far as it went, though it avoided mentioning the pretty serious hardware problems one typically encounters with peripherals and wireless. For some reason, very few writers of these articles bring this up, which is one conspicuous reason that I suspect most of these articles are just re-writes of other similar articles and puff-pieces, and not based on the writer's actual experience.

I think the "hobby" comment is an excellent way of putting it. Load it and go it's not -- it requires a good deal of tinkering. If you hate that, you'll hate any general-purpose Linux desktop.

Re "hobbyists," I've also noticed quite a few people who pack up and move to a new distro once they have Ubuntu totally figured out. They get bored.

"Process-oriented personalities," I calls 'em. Linux is their meat.

aysiu
August 29th, 2006, 07:50 PM
I'm biased, of course, but I prefer my own Is Ubuntu for You? (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=63315) article.

Nevertheless, it wasn't a bad read.

richbarna
August 29th, 2006, 08:06 PM
I'm biased, of course, but I prefer my own Is Ubuntu for You? (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=63315) article.

Nevertheless, it wasn't a bad read.

No, it wasn't a bad read.

And you aren't biased Aysiu, yours is just obviously a better article. I have to say that Aysiu's article knocks the nail on the head. Of all the articles I have read on "is Ubuntu for you" there do seem to be many similarities and are often written in a way that suggests the person hasn't actually tried Ubuntu.

It isn't easy to write any article, and fan-boys will always attack the glaring truth, and pedantics will attack minor discrepancies.

Now this is hard to believe if you have ever read any of Aysiu's articles, but even they got torn to pieces on Digg.

So the previous article can talk the talk, but Aysiu's article definitely can also walk the walk.

Dinerty
August 29th, 2006, 08:10 PM
Can Ubuntu completely replace Windows or Mac OS X?

Probably not. It doesn't work perfectly out of the box. And even if you do get it working smoothly, you may miss industry-standard professional programs, such as Photoshop and Adobe InDesign, or entertainment software such as iTunes and video games. The best strategy for most people is to run Ubuntu on the side as a hobby, gradually learning its intricacies. "Try things out before you really need to do them, so you avoid panic," said Grant.

This particual statement really annoyed me, espically this bit:

"It doesn't work perfectly out of the box"

For me personally it detected alot more then Windows ever did, Ubuntu detected my wireless, sound and correct resolution, Windows had to be hard configured to get these working.

Now I know this isn't the same for everyone, other people have had trouble, but I think it's poor wording, they make it sound like every installiation is going to be awful.

If anything I think this article would put potential new Ubuntu users off

aysiu
August 29th, 2006, 08:15 PM
When applied to Ubuntu, "out of the box" means "I installed it myself on a computer that came preloaded with Windows."

When applied to Windows, "out of the box" means "I bought it from some company that installed and configured Windows for me."

mustang
August 29th, 2006, 08:24 PM
Even if you do miss iTunes, there are many Ubuntu apps that can replace it like Amarok, Banshee, and now Songbird.

Well I miss iTunes since I can't purchase music anymore but regardless, that's not Ubuntu's fault.

justin whitaker
August 29th, 2006, 08:24 PM
I see no issue with the article: Ubuntu is not a drop in replacement for Windows-ask any gamer. ;)

Now, Automatix and Easy Ubuntu can get you all the files the writer talks about....but is that really the point? You can't load your 35gb of WMAs into Ubuntu and expect them to work from a fresh install.

So the article is right about that.

And so what? It replaces windows for you and me, it slices, dices, and juliennes on my rickety Emachine. It will do the same on your box with a little effort and the understanding that this is not Windows.

*shrugs*

Mountains and molehills, I guess.

rattlerviper
August 29th, 2006, 08:39 PM
Well I miss iTunes since I can't purchase music anymore but regardless, that's not Ubuntu's fault.

Yes you can! You could search the internet for some place that will sell you legal downloads. I buy my music online and download it with Ubuntu...is it as nice as Itunes? No, but it does work with a little management on my part. And it's much cheaper that Itunes as well. Much! Just make sure you check and make sure you are getting legal downloads. No excuse for saying you can't purchase music anymore!

BTW I can even choose Ogg as the format of my downloads:cool:

Bezmotivnik
August 29th, 2006, 09:06 PM
"It doesn't work perfectly out of the box"

For me personally it detected alot more then Windows ever did, Ubuntu detected my wireless, sound and correct resolution, Windows had to be hard configured to get these working.

Now I know this isn't the same for everyone, other people have had trouble, but I think it's poor wording, they make it sound like every installiation is going to be awful.

Again, "detected" doesn't mean "configured, installed and working."

At its best, Linux wireless is still far behind wireless in Windows in terms of flexibility and ease of use, particularly in high-security, multi-AP, mobile applications. Linux is just years behind there, period. It's about on par with Linux software modem tech in terms of actual usability. :(

I'm sort of suspicious of any article that doesn't at least mention this in passing, as this is such a critical problem for modern notebook users in business and the source of much consternation when discovered.

DoctorMO
August 29th, 2006, 09:53 PM
Bezmotivnik, I'm always amazed that you can sit there complaining and yet you won't do anything to help.

Drivers not good enough? want me to give you my first daughters hand in marrage too?

Please get off your **** and at least _try_ and help, offer a bounty, research your wifi cards capabilities. work with the developers to build the driver.

Bezmotivnik
August 29th, 2006, 10:19 PM
Bezmotivnik, I'm always amazed that you can sit there complaining and yet you won't do anything to help.

Drivers not good enough? want me to give you my first daughters hand in marrage too?

Please get off your **** and at least _try_ and help, offer a bounty, research your wifi cards capabilities. work with the developers to build the driver.
I've done as much as I reasonably can, talked with developers about this, etc., etc. and frankly, I have better things to do with my life than try to carve a functioning OS out of a bar of soap with a toothpick.

The remaining problems with Linux wireless are plain to all. There's no denying that. Everyone who's looked into it is aware of them. I'm not "complaining" about that because nobody really cares, including me. I ask questions, nobody has answers, because there aren't any yet. I give up and wait.

My point is this, so sit still and pay attention:

If any of these these incessant, largely content-free, boilerplate "Is Linux for You?" filler articles are ever to have any meaning for anyone who's interested in a legitimate answer to the question, they should mention stuff like that, because it matters and saves time.

Sure, it's not the fanboy "NO! NO! IT'S FOR EVERYONE!" answer, but at least it's honest (and therefore anathematic to fanboys).

If you need a lot of flexibility and transparent ease of use with modern, high-security wireless networks -- no, Linux is not for you, at least not yet. Nobody seriously doubts that who's informed on the problem. It should be mentioned in passing in these articles because it matters to a lot of people who are considering trying Linux.

mustang
August 29th, 2006, 10:22 PM
Yes you can! You could search the internet for some place that will sell you legal downloads. I buy my music online and download it with Ubuntu...is it as nice as Itunes? No, but it does work with a little management on my part. And it's much cheaper that Itunes as well. Much! Just make sure you check and make sure you are getting legal downloads. No excuse for saying you can't purchase music anymore!

BTW I can even choose Ogg as the format of my downloads:cool:

I have a hunch of what are you talking about and it's legality, atleast in the US, is in question. But I think it's in everyone's interest if we spare this thread that discussion...

rattlerviper
August 29th, 2006, 10:32 PM
Again, "detected" doesn't mean "configured, installed and working."

At its best, Linux wireless is still far behind wireless in Windows in terms of flexibility and ease of use, particularly in high-security, multi-AP, mobile applications. Linux is just years behind there, period. It's about on par with Linux software modem tech in terms of actual usability. :(

I'm sort of suspicious of any article that doesn't at least mention this in passing, as this is such a critical problem for modern notebook users in business and the source of much consternation when discovered.

Hmmmm...Only thing that wasn't working in Ubuntu for me was my printer! Wifi was detected, configured, and working only thing I had to do was click on the Firefox icon. Windows it took 10 minutes to load the driver and then I needed to configure the connection! My printer is no easy install in windows either! I can't just use the driver disk to get it installed and working(go figure what lexmark did) I have to put the disk in in at the right time when windows says it has detected new hardware. If I don't do that my printer is installed but not working! Try to install windows on a computer you built yourself rather than comparing it to the computer you bought that had windows preinstalled!
If you want easy linux buy a System76 computer! Preinstalled and everything will work. But honestly most problems are easier to deal with in Ubuntu than Windows if you are doing a install on a computer that you built yourself. Until you have installed both OS yourself from "scratch" you truly have no idea!
Ubuntu install took 21 minutes including updates. Office software was already present and ready to go!
Windows installation took 19 hours and some minutes! I had to manually install EVERY driver, I had to install office software, and then I had to install antivirus and firewall, printer, wifi. Then I could connect to the internet and begin the slow ardous task of updating it all!
Windows is easier and ahead of Linux...Give me a break!

rattlerviper
August 29th, 2006, 10:34 PM
I have a hunch of what are you talking about and it's legality, atleast in the US, is in question. But I think it's in everyone's interest if we spare this thread that discussion...

I wasn't trying to start a legal/illegal war:) was just pointing out that Ubuntu is not a reason to claim we can't buy music online.

I think I have seen somewhere's that you can get iTunes to work uder wine;)

Dinerty
August 29th, 2006, 11:59 PM
Again, "detected" doesn't mean "configured, installed and working."

At its best, Linux wireless is still far behind wireless in Windows in terms of flexibility and ease of use, particularly in high-security, multi-AP, mobile applications. Linux is just years behind there, period. It's about on par with Linux software modem tech in terms of actual usability. :(

I'm sort of suspicious of any article that doesn't at least mention this in passing, as this is such a critical problem for modern notebook users in business and the source of much consternation when discovered.

True, detected does not mean configured and working, but from my personal Linux Ubuntu experience my card was not only detected but it needed only minimal configuring (Just entering my encryption details).

Whereas with windows it could not detect the wireless without the need for extra software + drivers to be installed.

The only reason why Linux does not support more wireless and other hardware is due to manufacteurs :(

aysiu
August 30th, 2006, 12:00 AM
Since this has just turned into another "Linux isn't ready for __________" thread, I've added it to the list (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=219243).

rattlerviper
August 30th, 2006, 06:13 AM
Since this has just turned into another "Linux isn't ready for __________" thread, I've added it to the list (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=219243).

That's what these threads always turn into, luckily we have you around to post the ultimate answer!:)

prizrak
August 30th, 2006, 02:36 PM
Again, "detected" doesn't mean "configured, installed and working."

At its best, Linux wireless is still far behind wireless in Windows in terms of flexibility and ease of use, particularly in high-security, multi-AP, mobile applications. Linux is just years behind there, period. It's about on par with Linux software modem tech in terms of actual usability. :(

I'm sort of suspicious of any article that doesn't at least mention this in passing, as this is such a critical problem for modern notebook users in business and the source of much consternation when discovered.

Hardly years and not the OS itself. What do you call a high-security multi-AP mobile application? I got a WPA network set up at home and my g/f's house and there are a bunch of networks that I connect to outside of that. So far network manager hasn't had a single problem with any of them. Even knows which network is better to connect to if more than one of the "preferred" networks is visible, something XP is not able to do w/o 3rd party software. If you mean that not all wireless cards are supported that doesn't have to do with the OS just the drivers. My first ever Wi-Fi card came with drivers that didn't work on XP at all.

I do agree that it is something that needs to be mentioned, in fact I believe that all of those "Is Linux for you?" articles are missing a vital piece of advice. That is that before you try any distro you need to find out if your hardware is supported. Also things like System 76 and Automatix should be mentioned. If you are going to say that you had to manually install multimedia support it is only fair to let the reader know that there is a way to just click on something and not have to worry about it.

@Mustang:
www.emusic.com Second largest online music retailer in the world.

surfjdh
March 29th, 2007, 04:34 AM
It has replaced Windows for many people.

If I was still a windows user looking into linux that above statement might put me off trying Ubuntu.

I'm one of those people