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Skaperen
May 29th, 2021, 12:12 AM
laptops seem to keep getting thinner. how long until i can use them as a shaving razor?

dddman
May 29th, 2021, 01:02 AM
Mine is 0.8 of an inch thick. For those on the metric count that would be very few of those mm things. I haven't tried shaving with it.

yetimon_64
May 29th, 2021, 08:40 AM
Mine is 0.8 of an inch thick. For those on the metric count that would be very few of those mm things. I haven't tried shaving with it.

That is at least 20 of "those mm things", a bit too thick for shaving alright :). I think you may have meant very few "of those cm things" (about 2 centimetres in this case). Metric, don't ya just love it ... :lol:.

TheFu
May 29th, 2021, 03:31 PM
I love most things about the thin laptops, except ....

keyboards tend to wear out within 2 yrs
keyboards usually have a "mushy" feel
replacement of the keyboards takes open-heart-surgery. Basically, we have to remove **everything** from the case to swap in a new keyboard.
lack of RJ-45 port
reduced number of other ports like VGA, HDMI, and full-sized USB ports.
No RAM upgrades possible. RAM is usually soldered onto the MB


So, with all these negatives, the solution for many people is to bring along a case full of adapters - basically, we carry 0.5 lbs of extra crap rather than have it integrated into the laptop.

But some things I love:

weight - actually have a 13 inch laptop that weighs just under 2lbs
battery life - 8-11+ hrs is realistic
no complaints about screen resolution. Have a 13 inch 1080p and a 15 inch also 1080p
no complaints about performance. One has a Core i3 (5th gen - $430 new) and the other has a Core i5 (8th gen - $305 used). Sure, I'd like faster, but for the price paid, these are really amazing. My first was a Celeron 2995U based Chromebook and at the time, the performance on it was freakin' amazing for $200. Intel decided that making Celerons THAT fast was a bad idea and quickly started creating the Nxxxx series which were brain-dead in comparison. Eventually, the low-end, dual-core, cheap CPUs were rebranded as Pentium-Gxxxx CPUs.


Did I mention the keyboards suck and break? Every laptop I've owned since 2006 has this issue, except a 1.5inch thick Dell. I own Acer, Toshiba, and Asus ultra-thin laptops. The keyboards on each have failed - well - really just about 10-15 keys have failed, usually within 2 yrs.

The 15 inch is nice, but I wouldn't want to travel with it. Too large, too heavy. 8GB of RAM and replaceable 2.5in storage is nice. Swapped a 1TB HDD for a 500GB SSD.
The 13 inch is still my favorite, even with just 4G of RAM and limited ports.

But the keyboards, still suck. When it is time for a new-to-me laptop, it will be another ebay special, probably 12-18 months old, and probably an off-lease Dell. Who doesn't want to save 50% on a laptop with minor or zero cosmetic issues?

Looked up the specs for my 3 laptops.

Acer C720 - 11.34 x 8.03 x 0.75 inches (19.05mm) 2.8 lbs 11.6in screen
Toshiba Chromebook 2 (CB35-C3350) - 0.76 by 12.6 by 8.4 inches (19.3mm) 1.96 lbs 13.3in screen
Asus VivoBook F510UA AH51 - 14.2 in x 9.6 in x 0.8 in (20.3mm) 3.75 lbs 15.6in screen


Of the 3, I love-love-love the 13.3in Toshiba for size, weight, screen and performance. It does feel "cheap" and w/ only 4G of RAM, it is hurting, but with 8G and a non-plasticy body, it would be fantastic. The sub-2lbs really is what I like most.

They all have good enough battery. I've never had any go below 20% in normal use for a day.

dddman
May 30th, 2021, 06:13 PM
I had a Dell with a 17 inch screen. For three years I carried that brick around. Not ever buying a big screen laptop again. Went to the other end of the stick with a tablet. Comes with mushy keyboard and no ports. Three usb ports is all you get. Does have a blazing fast 4core i5, turbo's @ 3.8. Always had i7 in the past, its my first i5. I think it's just as good as an i7. I am sure there are lots of good brands out there, but I'm sold on Dell. I have never had a Dell die on me or keyboard problems with one. Dell just chugs along. 12 inch screen is good for me and with UHD resolution it just doesn't get any clearer than that.

My big screen is a dumb 1080p tv, so i hooked a computer up to HDMI and have a small wireless keyboard/touchpad for it. Has bluetooth and even rj45 ethernet hookup. Intel 4core/4threads; 4G ram/win10pro and will easily fit in your shirt pocket (less power supply). It's a computer stick and it has even less of those mm/cm things.

One day I want a desktop with a super small foot print. My ex-girlfriend kept my old desktop along with the apartment, but that's another story :)

zebra2
May 31st, 2021, 12:12 AM
I have three 15 inch Lenovo laptops. Two are 23mm thick and one is 25mm thick. At my age I'm almost certain that I would get razor burn trying to shave with any of them but I do use the 25mm one to cut fire wood. It cuts just fine but the keyboard can't stand up to the sudden stop and since it is glued in place inside the case the glue will come loose so I had to do a keyboard replacement. I found a keyboard for 18 dollars on amazon and that is still cheaper than buying a cord of firewood. I guess I can try shaving with the other two but that will depend on whether I can find a high viscosity shaving cream. If you decide to try any of this yourself don't forget to backup your data. I'm still trying to recover my wife's checkbook.

dddman
May 31st, 2021, 01:29 AM
25mm for the metric impaired...
Equals four quarters minus two cents so converting that to one inch is just about there or two one hundredth off. Which begs the question, why not 26? And that's something to think about over a pint, which is...

yetimon_64
May 31st, 2021, 01:53 AM
...And that's something to think about over a pint, which is...

Depends on whether you use a UK pint or a US pint ...;), you get many more millilitres with the UK pint than with the US ones :P

Getting back to the original topic I am posting from a rather heavy/thick HP Envy laptop (17 inch screen). I'd never consider buying an ultra-thin laptop; too flimsy feeling for my liking. I like the heavier and thicker units which often have more connection options and often have cd/dvd players available as well. I tend to use my laptop as a "desktop replacement" and only very rarely travel with it, I tend to use my android smartphone for internet browser use if/when travelling.

Heavier/thicker laptop units may cost more but generally suit my usage needs better. Even on heavier laptops I rarely use the keyboard if a USB port is spare, USB keyboard/mice combos are my preference for user input on any laptop.

Skaperen
May 31st, 2021, 06:43 AM
my point is that manufacturers keep promoting how thin their next models are. if they really can do that, year after year, then they could be getting very thin. when will it stop? will people care if they can do paper thin? how thin is "too thin"?

right now i'd like to get a thick laptop. 50mm

Irihapeti
May 31st, 2021, 06:56 AM
Once upon a time, cellphones were getting smaller and smaller. Until it got to a point where they were considered too easy to lose (or so I've heard).

Nowadays, cellphones seem to be getting larger and larger. I wonder how long that trend will last.

And maybe the same applies to the thinness of laptops...

mastablasta
May 31st, 2021, 09:18 AM
my point is that manufacturers keep promoting how thin their next models are. if they really can do that, year after year, then they could be getting very thin. when will it stop? will people care if they can do paper thin? how thin is "too thin"?

right now i'd like to get a thick laptop. 50mm


the problem is they do now have a good feature to offer. size is the most noticable. if i tell my boss i would like an i5, 16 Gb ram and at least 512 GB SSD it would be like i said "beepiddy boopiddy boop". but if i said i would like the latest thinner one.. well that makes sense, right since you move arruond, right. urgh. anyway size is easy to explain and sell to consumers.

anyway good thing they still have business grade laptops for people that actually need work to do. they will have easy to upgrade disk port, ram, battery can be detached, there might even be a VGA port, full keyboard, DVD even...

i am not a fan of silly features. they figured out how to make them smaller & more difficult to repair, but they haven't figured out how to disable the camera via hardware switch.

TheFu
May 31st, 2021, 02:15 PM
i am not a fan of silly features. they figured out how to make them smaller & more difficult to repair, but they haven't figured out how to disable the camera via hardware switch.

At nearly every conference I've been at the last 7 yrs had some vendor giving away plastic laptop camera sliding covers. I've got a few from the Linux Foundation. Swag is good, though I still play with the el-cheapo lightsaber swag from time to time. Good lights, good sound effects. ;) Whooooooosh

Or use some electrical tape, folded over onto itself where it meets the camera lens. Wouldn't want to gum up the lens.
For external webcams, just unplug the USB plug.

exploder
May 31st, 2021, 02:47 PM
I have an HP laptop that is really thin. It is fast because it has Intel Optane and a 10th gen I5 in it. The downside is it's a throw away device. It's nice now because it works but when it breaks it will go strait into the trash. I can't seem to take a modern laptop apart without breaking it these days, they just are not user serviceable anymore. I bought a display model at half price and the guy gave me additional money off on top of that. I have all the plastic spreaders and tools to work on laptops but almost always something breaks that I can't get replacement parts for.

The Fu summed things up very well! Manufacturer's make laptops so thin so you end up buying a new one when if breaks.

TheFu
May 31st, 2021, 03:25 PM
I have an HP laptop that is really thin. It is fast because it has Intel Optane and a 10th gen I5 in it. The downside is it's a throw away device. It's nice now because it works but when it breaks it will go strait into the trash. I can't seem to take a modern laptop apart without breaking it these days, they just are not user serviceable anymore. I bought a display model at half price and the guy gave me additional money off on top of that. I have all the plastic spreaders and tools to work on laptops but almost always something breaks that I can't get replacement parts for.

The Fu summed things up very well! Manufacturer's make laptops so thin so you end up buying a new one when if breaks.

I've replaced SSDs, RAM, and batteries in my thin laptops. So far, attempts to replace the keyboard have failed, but I have a replacement keyboard that needs to be installed right now. I'm still hopeful, but fearful too. Replacing the keyboard on these ultra-thin laptops is usually $30 for parts and $100 for labor. I miss the days when it was $30 for parts and 5 minutes of my time to do the replacement. My last attempt took over 2 hrs and ended up with a bricked laptop. The battery was disconnected so long as to make the replacement firmware I was running invalid. It would only boot with the original OS, but I'd physically modified the device (write protect electrical connection removed) which prevents using easy-flash to get everything back. An EEPROM writer for the specific chip is required - more $$.

dddman
May 31st, 2021, 04:46 PM
I don't think people set out to buy thin. People (like me) set out to buy small. Thin is just a sale pitch that comes along with small. Has no real meaning except for no dvd. Thin also means less backyard mechanics popping the hood; have to take it to a factory rep. Skaperen said he like his 50mm thick. 50mm for the metric impaired is same formula x4; divide by 2.

Skaperen
June 2nd, 2021, 07:29 PM
i don't need thin. i don't even need small. i like a big display. so what i want is light weight. but that's probably going to be achieved with thin and small. too thin and i can't hold it. too small and i can't hold it or type on it. and i'd like to get 128G RAM and 8 cores at under 30 watts.

TheFu
June 2nd, 2021, 10:44 PM
I'd rather have light over thin, but I'd rather carry a spiral notebook than a hardcover 4x thicker. Small is in the eye of the beholder. 15 inch seems small, if you are used to a 24inch monitor. But if you are used to 11.4inch screens, then 13.3 inch seems like a nice upgrade, especially if the resolution is increased.

If having a DVD player is required, then that's the requirement. My DVDs are all in a box, in the attic. They were ripped years ago and placed onto the network server for access. Same for 1200+ music CDs. Boxed, in the attic.

Around the house, I don't really use the laptops. My desktop in the office has a nice setup, IBM 101M keyboard (from 1996), dual monitors, plenty of speed, plenty of RAM, and fast networking. No laptop can come close. Laptops are all about compromise. Compromise on features, user comfort, performance, expand-ability, upgrade-ability and price.

That's the reality.

terame
June 14th, 2021, 11:20 AM
I long for a move to the past, where I could spend reasonable money on something that was great, and not just a marketing exercise that'd shaved 1mm off its size and dropped 20 minutes battery life.
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jolibe
June 23rd, 2021, 06:58 AM
Yes, now there are less and less really technological solutions.

mastablasta
June 23rd, 2021, 08:52 AM
Yes, now there are less and less really technological solutions.

it's like cars. no one is working to resolve the obviously good features. or they charge them extra for no reason, while having other unnecessary stuff included in price. so the sales guy goes you can set different AC temperature on right and on left side. so i asked what about in the back seat where the kids are? can they at least regulate the flow? well... no, but you have an entertainment system installed and you can also add it to the back.

same here. we have laptops that are not ergonomical and have limited screen site. despite the many advancement in various hinges, despite the bending screens available... i mean wouldn't it be great if when you opened it you would have propper sized keyboard pop out and the screen would get into correct position for normal work and into larger size than 15" or 17"?? i think razer had osme prototype with folded screen that could pop pout to large size.

or what about if you could easily access and replace all components and if they would be all in standard size?

Skaperen
June 25th, 2021, 01:33 AM
i am imagining a future xkcd. frame 1: guy 1 holds out his hand with a dot in his palm and says "1536GB 48TB and 168 hours on one charge". frame 2: guy 2 holds out his hand with a dot in his palm and says "mine blows that away". frame 3: guy 1 holds out his hand with an empty palm and says "i guess so". frame 4: guy 2 is still holding his and says "you got a cord to plug this in?".

masdertior
July 5th, 2021, 09:49 AM
I don't think there is a need to use laptops thinner than the MacBook Air

Hwt
July 17th, 2021, 06:29 AM
Still waiting for that two-dimensional laptop. Three dimensions are overrated

Shibblet
July 19th, 2021, 09:00 PM
My biggest concern with "thin" laptops is durability. They're not building them with Titanium, that's for sure... usually it's plastic. On the more expensive builds, it's aluminum, and that an only get so thin before it's easily bendable.

Skaperen
July 20th, 2021, 12:24 AM
My biggest concern with "thin" laptops is durability. They're not building them with Titanium, that's for sure... usually it's plastic. On the more expensive builds, it's aluminum, and that an only get so thin before it's easily bendable.

that's one reason i am worrying. i think thinness is not engineering driven but marketing driven to look like engineering driven. the thinner they get, the flimsier they will be. when they are paper thin, will they bend like paper, even if made of titanium? i can imagine people wanting to fold them up to smartphone size and pocket them. and the smartphones will be thin, too.

imagine a smartphone that unfolds into a laptop? no doubt it will happen.

mastablasta
July 20th, 2021, 12:24 PM
well yes, they already have bending screens and rolling screens. so it would make sense to have some sort of roll out laptop.

Shibblet
July 20th, 2021, 05:37 PM
that's one reason i am worrying. i think thinness is not engineering driven but marketing driven to look like engineering driven. the thinner they get, the flimsier they will be. when they are paper thin, will they bend like paper, even if made of titanium? i can imagine people wanting to fold them up to smartphone size and pocket them. and the smartphones will be thin, too.[QUOTE]

I used to work at an Audio/Video Store. They carried assorted brands of LCD / LED televisions. When you get into the 55"+ sizes, you can see them flex a bit. It wouldn't take too much to "torque" the television and break it. Thinness may be marketing madness that comes from panel manufacturers like Sony, Samsung, and LG.

[QUOTE=Skaperen;14049250]imagine a smartphone that unfolds into a laptop? no doubt it will happen.
It almost has at this point. Like Mastablasta said:

well yes, they already have bending screens and rolling screens. so it would make sense to have some sort of roll out laptop.

They are now making laptops without keyboards... just one big foldie-screen.

Skaperen
July 21st, 2021, 05:31 AM
and the keyboard is just a "roll out some more" touch-sensing screen that displays the keyboard layout for your configured language.

Hwt
July 22nd, 2021, 03:53 AM
While I like hardware keyboards, I think soft keyboards are a lot better to use for other languages than Alt-Gr or alt keys.

Shibblet
July 23rd, 2021, 09:06 PM
While I like hardware keyboards, I think soft keyboards are a lot better to use for other languages than Alt-Gr or alt keys.

Whereas I agree with that statement. Sometimes... you just gotta have a REAL keyboard in order to get some typing done. :P

Hwt
July 24th, 2021, 04:44 AM
I definitely agree with you. I make way too many mistakes on a soft keyboard to want to use one for everything. Without autocorrect, dare I say, I'd make too many ducking mistakes. :)

Skaperen
July 26th, 2021, 01:13 AM
i have to agree. i still get more keybounce from software keyboards. i think my fingers slide around too much, especially the ones i'm not pressing.

Shibblet
July 27th, 2021, 12:02 AM
i have to agree. i still get more keybounce from software keyboards. i think my fingers slide around too much, especially the ones i'm not pressing.

I know this thread is all about "Ultra Thin Laptops," but it seems that many Desktop PC's now come with "Ultra Thin Keyboards."

All I can assume, is that these "Ultra Thin" ideas are for people who like trendy ideas over functionality. Just ask Apple.

In the immortal words of Fernando (Billy Crystal): "It's not how you feel, it's how you look, and you look marvelous!"

monkeybrain20122
July 27th, 2021, 02:52 AM
So I was in the toilet the other day and mistaken my ultra thin laptop as TP. :o I have also lost an ultra small laptop the size of a grain of sand, it is probably still somewhere.

Shibblet
July 27th, 2021, 04:44 PM
So... if we've established that the keyboards aren't that great, and they're trying to be as thin as possible...

why not just get a tablet?

Skaperen
July 29th, 2021, 11:37 AM
that's probably what the corporate marketing gods want us to get. it looks so star treky. now i wonder if their stuff worked reliably. the R word.

Shibblet
July 29th, 2021, 09:45 PM
that's probably what the corporate marketing gods want us to get. it looks so star treky. now i wonder if their stuff worked reliably. the R word.

I have also heard that people are more apt to "upgrade" to a newer Tablet, and less include to "upgrade" to a new Laptop or Desktop PC.

People want to add more HD or RAM, they can do that to a Laptop or Desktop... not so much to a Tablet.

Skaperen
July 30th, 2021, 07:25 PM
i can just imagine using a tablet with a pair of 4 TB USB hard drives hanging from its only 2 USB ports. NOT!

ianwhite7
August 12th, 2021, 06:19 AM
When you hear Gillette partnering up with Intel