New PC build - I need your advice!

[Drone4four]

I’m going to build a new PC. I am a long time Ubuntu user. I run Gnome 3. I haven’t been a gamer in years. My budget is approximately $1,500 CAD (I am Canadian).

What I use my PC for (most resource demanding apps listed first):

Virtual Machine guests (Gentoo and Windows 10)
Academic research (social sciences): 30-100 Chrome tabs open at once PLUS 5-10 Google Docs open
Gnome 3 DE (with awful memory leaks - lol)
Torrent client
Slack, Gitter, Steam + Discord
Web development (VSCode, Atom)
Listening to music


Poached from my previous PC, I already have a power supply, graphics card (GeForce 950), 2TB storage drive (for /home/), keyboard, wireless mouse, monitor, printer, modem, computer desk.

Here is my proposed new Intel rig:
CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/C9hj4D/intel-core-i7-8700-32ghz-6-core-processor-bx80684i78700) ($407.47 @ Amazon Canada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/hmtCmG/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rr212e20pkr2) ($36.50 @ Vuugo)
Motherboard: Asus - Prime Z370-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/3MJkcf/asus-prime-z370-a-atx-lga1151-motherboard-prime-z370-a) ($204.99 @ Mike's Computer Shop)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/7Xbkcf/gskill-memory-f43200c16q64gvk) ($776.00 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/dkHRsY/samsung-970-evo-250gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-mz-v7e250bw) ($129.99 @ Memory Express)
Case: Phanteks - Enthoo Pro M Tempered Glass (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/2mQRsY/phanteks-enthoo-pro-m-tempered-glass-atx-mid-tower-case-ph-es515ptg_bk) ($134.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $1689.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available. Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-09-14 18:23 EDT-0400. PCPartPicker part list (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/BmCjvn) / Price breakdown by merchant (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/BmCjvn/by_merchant/)


Here is my proposed new AMD rig:
CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 2700 3.2GHz 8-Core Processor (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/WPQG3C/amd-ryzen-7-2700-32ghz-8-core-processor-yd2700bbafbox) ($379.00 @ Mike's Computer Shop)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/hmtCmG/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rr212e20pkr2) ($36.50 @ Vuugo)
Motherboard: Asus - STRIX B350-F GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/ZHyxFT/asus-strix-b350-f-gaming-atx-am4-motherboard-strix-b350-f-gaming) ($154.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/7Xbkcf/gskill-memory-f43200c16q64gvk) ($776.00 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/dkHRsY/samsung-970-evo-250gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-mz-v7e250bw) ($129.99 @ Memory Express)
Case: Phanteks - Enthoo Pro M Tempered Glass (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/2mQRsY/phanteks-enthoo-pro-m-tempered-glass-atx-mid-tower-case-ph-es515ptg_bk) ($134.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $1611.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available. Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-09-14 18:24 EDT-0400. PCPartPicker part list (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/F7RQw6) / Price breakdown by merchant (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/F7RQw6/by_merchant/)

*** The 970 EVO NVMe storage is for root.

What do you think? I am about $100 over my budget. What would you folks recommend instead?

[TheFu]

I wouldn't buy a new case if I already have one.
Also, I'd stay away from Intel, since future upgrades will certainly demand a new motherboard, but a new AMD CPU is very likely to work in the AM4 socket.

I thought Ryzen CPUs came with a cooler in the retail box. It was just the X models that didn't. I'm not certain about the 2700, but the 2600 does. I've been looking to upgrade my system to a Ryzen 2600, but my budget is US$400. I'm about $30 over it now (MB+CPU+RAM). I currently have only 1 AMD CPU running and it is in a purpose-built router. I'm not anti-Intel, but Ryzen has changed things.

With Ryzen, be certain to only buy RAM on the motherboard approved, compatible, list. I'm looking at the X470-based motherboards. I won't buy non-Intel NICs anymore. Just too much hassle not to use the industry standard.

I personally can't imagine using 64G of RAM, especially if you run only 1 Windows VM. I run 10 VMs with lots of headroom on 16G of RAM, including a Win7 media center VM.

$ free -hm
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 15G 15G 328M 608K 497M 3.0G
-/+ buffers/cache: 11G 3.8G
Swap: 11G 1.6G 9.7G
Most of the RAM is used for buffers, as you can see.

One of my VMs is a webpage storage VM - it runs wallabag. It is like a personal read-it-later clone. I don't need so many tabs that way, but always have an organized reading list and retain day-of webpages. You could run it on a raspberry pi if you like.

[pqwoerituytrueiwoq]

ways to cut cost for both builds
Intel does not need high speed (ryzen likes 3200, intl does not care) ram you could cost cost there
amd ryzen comes with a wraith cooler, this is a perfectly callable of getting the job done, so no need for a a hyper 212
you could spend alot less on the case
you could get a ryzen 1700 instead of a 2700, just check the QVL for ram compatibility
no need for a z series intel board unless you get a unlocked cpu, model ending in k

check newegg for combo deals: https://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductCombos.aspx?Item=19-113-498&SubCategory=343&SortField=0&PageSize=10&page=1

You need a video card for the ryzen system

you should be looking at a b450 chipset for a ryzen 2700, but it will work if the bios is upto date, b450 supports Precision Boost Overdrive and StoreM

[P-I H]

This is my build that works fine both with Ubuntu 18.04 and Cosmic Cuttlefish

p-i@pi-MS-7A34:~$ inxi -F
System:
Host: pi-MS-7A34 Kernel: 4.18.0-7-generic x86_64 bits: 64
Desktop: Gnome 3.30.0 Distro: Ubuntu 18.10 (Cosmic Cuttlefish)
Machine:
Type: Desktop Mobo: Micro-Star model: B350 TOMAHAWK (MS-7A34) v: 1.0
serial: <root required> UEFI: American Megatrends v: 1.H0 date: 05/02/2018
CPU:
Topology: 8-Core model: AMD Ryzen 7 1700 bits: 64 type: MT MCP
L2 cache: 4096 KiB
Speed: 1376 MHz min/max: 1550/3000 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1376 2: 1374
3: 1377 4: 1376 5: 1377 6: 1417 7: 1377 8: 1375 9: 1377 10: 1376 11: 1375
12: 1378 13: 1376 14: 1377 15: 1377 16: 1377
Graphics:
Device-1: AMD Ellesmere [Radeon RX 470/480/570/570X/580/580X]
driver: amdgpu v: kernel
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.1 driver: amdgpu tty: N/A
OpenGL: renderer: Radeon RX 580 Series (POLARIS10 DRM 3.26.0
4.18.0-7-generic LLVM 6.0.1)
v: 4.5 Mesa 18.1.5
Audio:
Device-1: C-Media CMI8788 [Oxygen HD Audio] driver: snd_virtuoso
Device-2: AMD Ellesmere [Radeon RX 580] driver: snd_hda_intel
Device-3: AMD Family 17h HD Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
Device-4: Logitech Webcam C250 type: USB driver: snd-usb-audio,uvcvideo
Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.18.0-7-generic
Network:
Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet
driver: r8169
IF: enp30s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: 4c:cc:6a:f4:2d:5e
Drives:
Local Storage: total: 689.34 GiB used: 107.16 GiB (15.5%)
ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 960 EVO 250GB
size: 232.89 GiB
ID-2: /dev/sda vendor: Samsung model: SSD 850 EVO 250GB size: 232.89 GiB
ID-3: /dev/sdb vendor: SanDisk model: Ultra II 240GB size: 223.57 GiB
Partition:
ID-1: / size: 227.74 GiB used: 107.16 GiB (47.1%) fs: ext4
dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2
Sensors:
System Temperatures: cpu: 35.0 C mobo: 36.0 C gpu: amdgpu temp: 32 C
Fan Speeds (RPM): fan-1: 507 fan-2: 581 fan-3: 978 fan-4: 0 fan-5: 742
fan-6: 0 gpu: amdgpu fan: 1166
Info:
Processes: 348 Uptime: 2h 57m Memory: 15.68 GiB used: 2.25 GiB (14.4%)
Shell: bash inxi: 3.0.22
p-i@pi-MS-7A34:~$

The CPU cooler is Be Quiet! Shadow Rock TF 2, that blows down to cool the VRMs.
Memory is Crucial 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 2400MHz CL16 Ballistix Sport LT clocked to 2667 MHz.

Memory Device
Array Handle: 0x000F
Error Information Handle: 0x0017
Total Width: 64 bits
Data Width: 64 bits
Size: 8192 MB
Form Factor: DIMM
Set: None
Locator: DIMM 1
Bank Locator: P0 CHANNEL A
Type: DDR4
Type Detail: Synchronous Unbuffered (Unregistered)
Speed: 2667 MT/s
Manufacturer: Unknown
Serial Number: EAB32396
Asset Tag: Not Specified
Part Number: BLS8G4D240FSB.16FBD
Rank: 2
Configured Clock Speed: 1333 MT/s
Minimum Voltage: 1.2 V
Maximum Voltage: 1.2 V
Configured Voltage: 1.2 V
Memory Device
Array Handle: 0x000F
Error Information Handle: 0x001C
Total Width: 64 bits
Data Width: 64 bits
Size: 8192 MB
Form Factor: DIMM
Set: None
Locator: DIMM 1
Bank Locator: P0 CHANNEL B
Type: DDR4
Type Detail: Synchronous Unbuffered (Unregistered)
Speed: 2667 MT/s
Manufacturer: Unknown
Serial Number: EAB320DC
Asset Tag: Not Specified
Part Number: BLS8G4D240FSB.16FBD
Rank: 2
Configured Clock Speed: 1333 MT/s
Minimum Voltage: 1.2 V
Maximum Voltage: 1.2 V
Configured Voltage: 1.2 V

[Drone4four]

I’ve reworked both my builds based on all your feedback. See the bottom of this post for the builds reconfigured.

Since I last configured my PC on pcpartpicker, I noticed that the G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series RAM price increased from $776 CAD to $1033 CAD. So I’ve positioned different ram in both my potential builds.

I wouldn't buy a new case if I already have one.
My old case works but the side panel doesn't slide into place very easily. It's bent. You’re right that $134.99 is kinda pricey for a new case. I'll just check out the options available at the PC repair shop when I walk in there with my specs. By removing the case from my build, it looks like I’ve saved $135, but it will just be an added expense when I make my purchase in person.


Also, I'd stay away from Intel, since future upgrades will certainly demand a new motherboard, but a new AMD CPU is very likely to work in the AM4 socket.
Good point. AMD is the favourite over Intel when it comes to future hardware upgrade support.


I thought Ryzen CPUs came with a cooler in the retail box. It was just the X models that didn't. I'm not certain about the 2700, but the 2600 does.
Perhaps a CPU cooler won’t be necessary for my Ryzen build. I’ve crossed this off my list.


With Ryzen, be certain to only buy RAM on the motherboard approved, compatible, list. I'm looking at the X470-based motherboards. I won't buy non-Intel NICs anymore. Just too much hassle not to use the industry standard.
Before settling on RAM, I’ll be sure to check the compatibility list.


I personally can't imagine using 64G of RAM, especially if you run only 1 Windows VM. I run 10 VMs with lots of headroom on 16G of RAM, including a Win7 media center VM.
I’ve been using 32GBs of RAM since summer 2015. It ran well in the beginning. But especially in the last 6 months or so, with all the electron-based apps I run, plus my three dozen chrome tabs open at the same time - - in addition to several Google Docs open with documents to the tune of 65,000 words long - - I’ve been bottoming out way too easily even with 32GB. When I tell my dad (who is a veteran IBM Mainframe sysadmin) about all the system resources I need, he loses his temper. hhaha ha


One of my VMs is a webpage storage VM - it runs wallabag. It is like a personal read-it-later clone. I don't need so many tabs that way, but always have an organized reading list and retain day-of webpages. You could run it on a raspberry pi if you like.
I found the wallabag project’s home page and repo on GitHub. wallabag’s hosting service is a little more descriptive. According to their site (https://www.wallabag.it/en/features):
wallabag*extracts the article's content*(and only its content!) and displays it in a*comfortable view. Moreover, wallabag is responsive: you can read your articles on your smartphone or your tablet.
I don’t want to bother setting up a vhost but I’m curious to learn more and would want to see a live demo of the features in action. I’m not sure if this would help with my voracious appetite for the news I consume daily.


Intel does not need high speed (ryzen likes 3200, intl does not care) ram you could cost cost there I’ve kept this in mind for my new builds.


amd ryzen comes with a wraith cooler, this is a perfectly capable of getting the job done, so no need for a a hyper 212 I’ve removed Hyper 212 from my AMD build.


you could spend alot less on the case
I’ve removed the case. I will settle for whatever (affordable) case my PC shop has available in store.


no need for a z series intel board unless you get a unlocked cpu, model ending in k
I've removed my z series Intel board and replaced it with a B360.


You need a video card for the ryzen system
I’ve got a GeForce 950 2GB which I’ve poached from my previous PC.


you should be looking at a b450 chipset for a ryzen 2700, but it will work if the bios is upto date, b450 supports Precision Boost Overdrive and StoreM
I’ve swapped out the B350 for the highest reviewed B450 which is a little but more affordable.

According to AMD’s YT channel, the rep explains (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipAkjMr-COM) StoreMI as a way for Windows PCs to consolidate together separate storage drives, blending the capacity of a large HD with the speed of an agility of an SSD. It kinda reminds me of Intel’s Optane memory. It sounds like a neat feature but how would I format my partitions when I install Ubuntu or Fedora next to take advantage of StoreMI? I had intended on putting the NVMe as root and my 2TB HD for /home/. Will the Linux kernel just magickally make it all work?

I also Googled AMD’s Precision Boost Overdrive technology and found a YT video titled “How Does Precision Boost Overdrive Work (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SkXyJTgVlg)”. It looks interesting but the AMD rep explains that if you turn this feature on, it voids your warranty. It’s for overclockers. This might not be quite right for my needs.


you could get a ryzen 1700 instead of a 2700, just check the QVL for ram compatibility
I Googled ‘msi b450 tomahawk qvl’ but couldn’t find the QVL for this particular board. The specs on MSI’s website (https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B450-TOMAHAWK) don’t mention QVL anywhere (or anything similar).

Here is my new potential Ryzen build with different ram, no cooler, a B450 mobo (instead of B350) and no chassis:
CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 2700 3.2GHz 8-Core Processor (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/WPQG3C/amd-ryzen-7-2700-32ghz-8-core-processor-yd2700bbafbox) ($374.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Motherboard: MSI - B450 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/Hy97YJ/msi-b450-tomahawk-atx-am4-motherboard-b450-tomahawk) ($137.99 @ PC-Canada)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/zfPzK8/corsair-memory-cmk64gx4m4a2400c14) ($730.73 @ Amazon Canada)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/dkHRsY/samsung-970-evo-250gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-mz-v7e250bw) ($127.21 @ Mike's Computer Shop)
Total: $1370.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-09-17 19:24 EDT-0400
PCPartPicker part list (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/99dm7W) / Price breakdown by merchant (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/99dm7W/by_merchant/)

Here is my new potential Intel build without a chassis, a different (non-Z series) mobo and different RAM:
CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/C9hj4D/intel-core-i7-8700-32ghz-6-core-processor-bx80684i78700) ($409.89 @ Amazon Canada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/hmtCmG/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rr212e20pkr2) ($36.50 @ Vuugo)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - B360 AORUS Gaming 3 WIFI ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/NyqhP6/gigabyte-b360-aorus-gaming-3-wifi-atx-lga1151-motherboard-b360-aorus-gaming-3-wifi) ($149.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/zfPzK8/corsair-memory-cmk64gx4m4a2400c14) ($730.73 @ Amazon Canada)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/dkHRsY/samsung-970-evo-250gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-mz-v7e250bw) ($127.21 @ Mike's Computer Shop)
Total: $1454.32
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-09-17 19:26 EDT-0400
PCPartPicker part list (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/H8gJNQ) / Price breakdown by merchant (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/H8gJNQ/by_merchant/)

Hooray! They are both below $1500. But I still gotta buy a case at the shop.

[TheFu]

DDR4 ram is predicted to drop 30-50% over the next 6 months now that supply is back up and crypto-currency mining isn't profitable. Maybe buy 16G now and replace it when the price drop happens?

OTOH, if you are making $15K/month, get the RAM and help the economy.

[P-I H]

Ryzen 7 2700 is a Pinnacle Ridge. This is the QVL list
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B450-TOMAHAWK.html#support-mem-14 (https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350-TOMAHAWK#support-mem-14)
Your selected memory isn't in the QVL.

[oldfred]

You may want to review this:
The Current Linux Performance On 22 Intel / AMD Desktop Systems Sept 2018
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=22-systems-linux418&num=1

And Phoronix has Open Benchmark site where users post their system & performance. You may find similar systems.
http://openbenchmarking.org/

[Drone4four]

DDR4 ram is predicted to drop 30-50% over the next 6 months now that supply is back up and crypto-currency mining isn't profitable. Maybe buy 16G now and replace it when the price drop happens?
This would be an excellent idea. Maybe I will buy 32GB now and buy an additional 32GB in a few months after DRAM prices drop. The price of four 16GB was over $800 in CAD across the board just two weeks ago. Today they are mostly below $700. It's only been a few weeks. Maybe if I wait a little longer the prices will come down even more.


Ryzen 7 2700 is a Pinnacle Ridge. This is the QVL list
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B450-TOMAHAWK.html#support-mem-14 (https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350-TOMAHAWK#support-mem-14)
Your selected memory isn't in the QVL.
Thanks for the link. I’ll check the QVL before I buy RAM for what ever mobo I end up going with.

[ryleyrushh]

I would say yes to intel rig.