Now that Automatix has left, should Easy Ubuntu be the official forum recommendation?

[elamericano]

Arnieboy has taken his ball and gone home (to http://www.getautomatix.com). Should we recommend the alternative automatic configurators, Easy Ubuntu and BUMPS, which have subforums here for further information? EU is the only comparable one to Automatix, although personally BUMPS is enough for me.

Should the presence and participation here be a factor? Should the behavior of the authors matter, or just the code?

[givré]

Good question. I think we can also redirect people to www.getautomatix.com
But i didn't really understand the decision of arnieboy. This forum is one of the first step in ubuntu of new users.

[beniwtv]

Can anyone explain me what happened with Automatix?


Thanks.

[KiwiNZ]

Can anyone explain me what happened with Automatix?


Thanks.

Automatix is still available from the project site. The project has requested that the subforum here be closed.

[beniwtv]

Automatix is still available from the project site. The project has requested that the subforum here be closed.

Thanks :)

[JimmyJazz]

why should it matter where automatix lives its still the same tool and it still works great.

[bluenova]

I selected: I don't recommend either script (please state your reason)

The reason being the devs are trying to eradicate the need for any 3rd party scripts, making life much better for the new user.

[handy]

I feel like a very important part of Ubuntu has fragmented. & I miss it not being here. I know Automatix is still available, I just liked it better when we were all living under the same roof...

I'll get used to it, & continue to recommend Automatix to all those that it may help...

[givré]

I feel like a very important part of Ubuntu has fragmented. & I miss it not being here. I know Automatix is still available, I just liked it better when we were all living under the same roof...

I'll get used to it, & continue to recommend Automatix to all those that it may help...
I feel the same. If somebody could explain why arnieboy left us...

[arnieboy]

Automatix is being developed and supported at http://www.getautomatix.com
There is a full fledged forum on the same site for bug reports, support, etc.

[hesee]

I don't see any reason why not to recommend it for users. We do recommend other sw too, which is not part of this community. I also just noticed that Automatix has grown so that it's no longer ubuntu-specific tool(mepis, more to come?). It's probably better outside ubuntuforums. Just my opinion...


Edit: I see I've got same avatar than elamericano... Maybe it's time to switch

[arnieboy]

I don't see any reason why not to recommend it for users. We do recommend other sw too, which is not part of this community. I also just noticed that Automatix has grown so that it's no longer ubuntu-specific tool(mepis, more to come?). It's probably better outside ubuntuforums. Just my opinion...
yes and we will continue to grow beyond ubuntu and mepis too.. so yeah.. it was high time we moved.

[Tomosaur]

I wouldn't recommend either script unless the user is having problems getting things up and running themselves. While I understand that it's irritating getting all your media etc to work on linux, it's a learning curve - and the things you learn by doing it will help you understand how linux works in general - dependencies, configurations etc.

Therefore, I say that unless the user in question is having difficult (for whatever reason) getting something working, then the scripts should not be recommended.

[Lord Illidan]

I am dead tired of all the controversy, back stabbing and other stuff surrounding these projects. I want nothing to do with either one..

[arnieboy]

I am dead tired of all the controversy, back stabbing and other stuff surrounding these projects. I want nothing to do with either one..

Before speculations get too wild, we want to make it clear that this decision to move automatix to its own forum has been done with better support, control and development in mind. We want Automatix users to benefit from this move and help us become better.

we have been with the forums for quite a while and this stay has been mutually beneficial. Automatix got a good launching pad because of the forums and the forums and Ubuntu itself also gained popularity and numbers because of Automatix. While this had been a mutually win-win situation, with the growing size of Automatix, it had become imperative to make its support more streamlined and better controlled. We didnt want personal differences and opinions to get in the way of a much better automatix. Hence, we decided to move.

[ice60]

i've always told people to use Automatix. i thought Automatix had more options then Easy Ubuntu, is that no longer true?

[arnieboy]

i've always told people to use Automatix. i thought Automatix had more options then Easy Ubuntu, is that no longer true?

Automatix has many more options (almost triple when I last checked) than Easy Ubuntu. Apart from that Automatix will be developed in future with more users in mind. We will have Automatix gaming, Automatix Business, Automatix Science etc..
All this and more at the automatix wiki on http://www.getautomatix.com

As more devs join us and help us with our workload, we will expand even faster.

We will also continue developing Automatix Bleeder which will have many exciting options in it too.

[ice60]

Automatix has many more options (almost triple when I last checked) than Easy Ubuntu. Apart from that Automatix will be developed in future with more users in mind. We will have Automatix gaming, Automatix Business, Automatix Science etc..
All this and more at the automatix wiki on http://www.getautomatix.com

As more devs join us and help us with our workload, we will expand even faster.
well, i think it sounds great. good luck.

[bensexson]

I don't recommend either or any of these scripts because I think it is better if the user learns what they are doing and why they have to do it. I do not say they should not exist. I think it is a good thing that they do exist but I if I am going to recommend anything it is to search the fine newbie oriented documentation. I was able to do every basic thing like adding repos multimedia support by using the Wiki. Beyond basics documentation and help is a little lacking for Ubuntu but for basics it is excellent.

[egon spengler]

Automatix got a good launching pad because of the forums and the forums and Ubuntu itself also gained popularity and numbers because of Automatix.

To be honest I find it hard to believe that many people started using a whole new OS solely because of a script that was available to install programs for them

[omns]

.

[arnieboy]

To be honest I find it hard to believe that many people started using a whole new OS solely because of a script that was available to install programs for them

Many other folks would find it hard to believe too.. but if you search for polls and testimonials on these forums, you might just find it slightly easier to believe. Even before Dapper was released, a poll carried out on the Automatix thread said that almost 1700 people chose Ubuntu simply because of Automatix. We are not counting the folks who never bothered to sign up on the forums but use Automatix anyways and of course after Dapper was released, the Automatix team was formed and Automatix expanded more rapidly.

Currently on an average, Automatix gets downloaded 100,000 times a month.

[egon spengler]

Oh ok, I must have misinterpreted what you said, for some reason I took it that you meant that people who were happy using *insert OS* just suddenly upped and switched on hearing about Automatix.

What you meant was that people who had already decided to use Linux and were looking for the path of least resistance went for ubuntu and Automatix. That's more believable

[arkangel]

I tried both with , nor a real fan though, and i think automatix is more complete

[arnieboy]

Oh ok, I must have misinterpreted what you said, for some reason I took it that you meant that people who were happy using *insert OS* just suddenly upped and switched on hearing about Automatix.

What you meant was that people who had already decided to use Linux and were looking for the path of least resistance went for ubuntu and Automatix. That's more believable

well the case study that you are talking of is not so simple.
Automatix users consist of the following:
1) Users (of other distros) who have heard good things about Ubuntu but who also want an easy and automated installation procedure for some commonly demanded apps.

2) Users who already have been using Ubuntu for a while and do not always want to manually do stuff. These people might be quite varied in their technical expertise as pertaining to Ubuntu and linux in general.

3) Windows and Mac users who have heard about Ubuntu AND Automatix in a journal (like pcworld) or on the internet on digg.com, slashdot.org, linux.com etc and have heard that not only is Ubuntu the best linux distro out there right now, its quite easy to set up and after installation, Automatix can help the user get up and running with almost complete multimedia support and much more.

4) Business users (like small Internet cafe owners, office mass deployers) also use Automatix to get everything up and started quickly.

5) Folks who have used linux in the past (lets say 2001) but become frustrated with the relatively steep learning curve and given up long back. Now they are back again trying out Ubuntu and Automatix after reading good things about them on the internet and are now happily married to Ubuntu and also Automatix.

I might be missing a few more categories here..

[egon spengler]

well the case study that you are talking of is not so simple.

You seem to be taking umbrage with my use of the term "path of least resistance" but isn't that why you started writing the script, to make things easier for people?



Automatix users consist of the following:
1) Users (of other distros) who have heard good things about Ubuntu but who also want an easy and automated installation procedure for some commonly demanded apps.

Like I said, people who have already decided to use Linux and are looking for the path of least resistance



2) Users who already have been using Ubuntu for a while and do not always want to manually do stuff. These people might be quite varied in their technical expertise as pertaining to Ubuntu and linux in general.

Well people who already use ubuntu don't count as users brought over by Automatix



3) Windows and Mac users who have heard about Ubuntu AND Automatix in a journal (like pcworld) or on the internet on digg.com, slashdot.org, linux.com etc and have heard that not only is Ubuntu the best linux distro out there right now, its quite easy to set up and after installation, Automatix can help the user get up and running with almost complete multimedia support and much more.

Myself I would consider that more ubuntu bringing Automatix users than vice versa but let's assume that in every instance it's Automatix that swung the pendulum and made them elect for ubuntu, isn't that the path of least resistance again?


4) Business users (like small Internet cafe owners, office mass deployers) also use Automatix to get everything up and started quickly.

The perfect demographic for a project like automatix, I would image that for someone setting up multiple pcs doing each one by hand would be a very tedious task


5) Folks who have used linux in the past (lets say 2001) but become frustrated with the relatively steep learning curve and given up long back. Now they are back again trying out Ubuntu and Automatix after reading good things about them on the internet and are now happily married to Ubuntu and also Automatix.

Least resistance.

Your project accomplished exactly what it set out to do, that's great isn't it?

[arnieboy]

The project has not accomplished everything it had set out to achieve. Still a lot remains to be done. But yes, path of least resistance does sum up most of it.

[matthew]

Back to the thread's original topic, "Now that Automatix has left, should Easy Ubuntu be the official forum recommendation?" I would like to make a comment.

It is not the official policy of these forums to endorse or to discourage the use of specific pieces of software, and that includes Automatix. The Automatix 3rd party forum was removed by request but that does not symbolize a change in how we intend to treat it and its developers in these forums. Our goal as the official support forums for Ubuntu is to provide opportunities for users to discuss and learn about Ubuntu and related topics. When asked about specific pieces of software that are not a part of the official release we want to stay officially neutral. The fact that the Easy Ubuntu and BUMPS developers have 3rd Party Forums here does not make their product better or worse than Automatix.

Now, opinions may be given by staff regarding these and other projects, but these opinions are not offical statements of opinion of these forums or anyone other than the person making them.

So...neither EasyUbuntu nor Automatix nor any other similar piece of similar software is going to be the official recommendation of these forums.

[arnieboy]

My comment on Matthew's post would be the following:
Automatix has never been officially recommended by the forums. It gained popularity on its own right and just because its more readily recommended by Ubuntu users does not mean that it ever was "officially endorsed" by these forums. The thread starter could have worded his question and post a little more carefully.

[Moon Jaguar]

I don't see where people are getting that Automatix, EasyUbuntu or any other install script were "official". A third party prog/script having its own subforum here =/= official forum recommendation.

[lapsey]

that american mcgee quote on the automatix site make it sound as if ubuntu is a piece of crap without automatix.

there should be a voting option for 'both are good'

[avtolle]

No. I feel that use of either or both is a matter of choice; I don't recommend either, but suggest that both be looked at (EU and Automatix) by posters looking for assistance. I also agree with the official Forum position on this issue.

[jdong]

Either. Just because Automatix no longer chooses to host their forums on Ubuntuforums.org doesn't mean it's become any worse a program!

Not everyone wants to use Automatix/EasyUbuntu, but there is still clearly a demand for such programs.

[whynotchevron]

4) Business users like small Internet cafe owners, office mass deployers) also use Automatix to get everything up and started quickly.
And I for one " Thank You " and will follow you to your new site .:KS

[Kilz]

Since I voted I don't recommend either script I will post.

I have nothing against setup scripts, in fact I have written a few. But the scripts do not help the user learn things. To often I have seen someone ask how to install 1 application, only to see 3 or 4 people provide links to multiple application installers. So one application is installed to install another. Double the effort if you ask me.
I have also seen problem installs. When it happens it happens to someone least likely to be able to fix it. Why? Because they didn't learn anything. A script installed everything for them.
Personally I think we should be linking to howto's that tell someone how to use Synaptic. That or how to install debs. Because no matter if they use a setup script or not they will still need to learn. There is no way a script can install everything. So sooner or later that person has to learn any way.
Maybe the scripts have a place in making the setup easier for people who know what they are doing, or have to install multiple installs over time. But those people will not need to be told about those scripts.
Also there are very difficult setups that errors do happen all the time because of the difficulty. In those cases scripts have a roll. But telling someone they should install a script to install something already in the repositories or a deb file gdebi can install is a waste of time.

[jdong]

Well, just to say, it takes me around 30 minutes post-install to get repositories and codecs installed, and I can find myself setting up Ubuntu installs on average of one per day, so scripts like Automatix really save me a lot of time.

[Kilz]

Well, just to say, it takes me around 30 minutes post-install to get repositories and codecs installed, and I can find myself setting up Ubuntu installs on average of one per day, so scripts like Automatix really save me a lot of time.
For someone like you that knows how to install things and installs a lot of systems they are good. But I have seen someone recommend Automatrix to install frostwire. They could have just downloaded the .deb file and double clicked on it just as easy.

[jdong]

right; I agree with you on that. In addition, in that realm Automatix is really undermining/overlapping with the gnome-app-install program.

[arnieboy]

For someone like you that knows how to install things and installs a lot of systems they are good. But I have seen someone recommend Automatrix to install frostwire. They could have just downloaded the .deb file and double clicked on it just as easy.

a note in this regard: some debs which are made by developers themselves and are not tested enough and do not make it into Universe have quite a few flaws in them in terms of dependencies included while making the deb, etc. These things are tested by Automatix and then added to make sure the user does not have to undergo the frustration of gdebi telling him that the s/w is installed while it just refuses to run.

Also, some packages never make it from Debian Testing/Unstable to Ubuntu Universe. Hence, these dependencies cannot be resolved by gdebi. We at automatix also make sure that any package pulled from other sources including Debian does not have dependencies which might result in system breakage because of possible conflicts with existing packages.

[rattlerviper]

Everytime I set up a computer for someone else Automatix is the first thing to go on the computer...even before updates. For the record I have tried Easy Ubuntu but it stopped part way through and sais something to the effect of please fix broken packages before continuing. Tried it again same thing. Removed Easy Ubuntu and slapped Automatix of the computer I was setting up and all was just fine. That's why I personnally recomend Automatix if someone wants it nice and easy.\\:D/

[elamericano]

Edit: My post no longer says what I said, so I removed it. I am not under the impression that what I say carries great importance, but it is all that I can offer, and I try to make it useful and appropriate for this forum.

I have failed.

I'll still say Good Luck Arnieboy, for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

[arnieboy]

Just one technical correction (point 5):
Automatix for Dapper was released two days before Dapper was officially released.

[tseliot]

2. If someone is already looking on this forum for help, it makes more sense to direct them to another part of this forum, rather than to another site where they have to register.
I suggest some users to ask for help on the Nvidia forum when I feel that I can't help them any further.

I can't see anything wrong with that. And you only have to register once ;)


3. I'm in the group who believes that it's better to have one choice. I would never ask a newbie to evaluate these programs on their own. I'd say get started with EU (or AX, if they'd expressed interest in one of its unique features) and start using Ubuntu.
If we had only one choice only 1 GNU/Linux would exist (and that would not necessarily be Ubuntu) ;)


4. EasyUbuntu is Ubuntu only. That will focus development and testing where it belongs.
Ubuntu and Mepis are very similar. And I guess that if the Automatix team supports also Mepis it's because they think it's worth the effort (their effort).

P.S. Freedom of choice is what brought me to Linux :D

[matthew]

I suggest we all take a step back. This isn't worth getting emotional over.

Everyone: Let's not allow the conversation to escalate into a chaotic flamefest or ego-bruising/smashing silliness. Thank you.

[EdThaSlayer]

Automatix really helped me when i first started Ubuntu...it makes the process of setting up your pc with the latest and best apps so much easier!!Thats why iam glad that they didnt "quit" Automatix. Still happy that it exists at some site...

[Imexius]

I'm pretty sure it is up to the individual to decide what he or she should be recommending, not the forums. It is my understanding that the forums does not represent one specific opinion on the matter but rather a patchwork of several opinions. It is imperative that we learn to accept and respect other's opinions and that goes for everyone.

On a side note: my personal belief is that we should actually be trying to show users how to fix their problems by themselves instead of promoting future laziness. Now in regards to time consumption; if you actually read some of the documentation that is readily available you can have your OS setup in no time flat, probably close to the same time it takes to download, install and run automatix after you read the documentation of course.

[aleska]

Very new user input here...I haven't been using Ubuntu, or Linux for that matter, for more than a few months now.

Anyway, Easy Ubuntu didn't work for me, same broken package messages referred to earlier in the thread. AND this was after a completely fresh install, where nothing else had been loaded changed etc, except for applying the updates.
Automatix, on the other hand, has worked like a charm.

I'm a huge fan. It has helped me to maximize enjoyment of my Ubuntu experience from the get-go. You are right, I potentially missed an important learning opportunity. However, good news is, I'm learning about installing apps anyway. Whether its been figuring out how to get Democracy player up and running, or installing Synergy, I feel like I continue to get smarter and better. Sure I could have fumbled (but learned) along the way with the many important functions that Automatix spoon fed me. But, learning happens differently for everyone. Different timing, even different steps and order. I think Automatix plays a fantastic role in getting Windows converts to quickly gain confidence in Ubuntu and linux in general. We have a lifetime to learn, but you only get one chance to make a first impression. Right, wrong, or other, Automatix gave me a fantastic first impression of what life with Linux will be like. It just works, baby!
Mad props to Arnieboy and the automatix team!
Thanks!

[handy]

I'm with you aleska! :D

I also think that nobody really should have any preconceived ideas about how much learning somebody else should do!

Many are busy learning something else not at all computer related & only want their computer to function reliably & efficiently, having the capabilities that they require.

Other's just don't want to learn that stuff, for whatever reason it's not what they desire...

We are not all tech' heads!

Great! There is no problem there. How borring it would be if we all were the same.

Due to Automatix, so many Ubuntu users have been saved a great deal of time & often frustration, this has certainly, (amongst all the other positives,) created a larger, & probably more loyal Ubuntu user base.

Thanks again Arnie & Co.

[aysiu]

I'm for everything.

If something worked for you, recommend it.

What I recommend depends wholly on the situation and the attitude of the person asking for help. I won't blanket-recommend installing everything individually. And I won't blanket-recommend using Automatix... or Easy Ubuntu... or BUMPS.

No blanket recommendations from me.

If someone says, "How do I install this one program/codec?" I'll tell her how to install that one program/codec.

If someone says, "Why doesn't Ubuntu come with X, Y, Z, and ABC? Is there an easy way to install all this?" I'll recommend one of these three scripts... or all three!

And if someone prefers to install things one by one but wants a quick way to get up-and-running on a new machine, I'll also recommend those scripts.

P.S. I install things "manually," but I don't see how I'm learning things any more than someone who uses A, B, or E. After all, Synaptic resolves all dependencies--I just click on something and it installs. It's like magic. Am I then too lazy to use Ubuntu?

[arnieboy]

P.S. I install things "manually," but I don't see how I'm learning things any more than someone who uses A, B, or E. After all, Synaptic resolves all dependencies--I just click on something and it installs. It's like magic. Am I then too lazy to use Ubuntu?

one of my posts in this thread discusses why AX does not ONLY install packages from the repositories(apt/synaptic).. it discusses certain pitfalls with 3rd party packages and how much time and testing it takes to resolve those issues.
If AX had only been about apt-get install xyz.deb or an automated alternative for gdebi then it wouldn't have come this far.
moreover most folks dont ever get the real picture.
New users want real windows alternatives right in their faces. They dont want to ask questions, they dont care, they want things working. We need to realize that computing is not all abt geeks or folks interested in computers/individual softwares/operating systems. We are just a very tiny fraction of this whole revolution surrounding computers and its uses and its users.
-Arnie

[aysiu]

I wasn't implying that Automatix only installs packages from the repositories. Sorry for giving that impression.

I was trying to counter the oft-expressed idea that there's something to be proud of for not using Automatix ("I did it myself--look at me").

I've done it all myself, and I don't think it really helped me understand my system better. It's not like I'm using Slackware.

[arnieboy]

I wasn't implying that Automatix only installs packages from the repositories. Sorry for giving that impression.

I was trying to counter the oft-expressed idea that there's something to be proud of for not using Automatix ("I did it myself--look at me").

I've done it all myself, and I don't think it really helped me understand my system better. It's not like I'm using Slackware.
with all due respect aysiu, you have tried to learn (being a non-techie) and succeeded. However, there are ten of millions who do not want to try to understand. They want everything to work at the click of a button. We at Automatix cater to such clients too. Some of them will tell you why everyone needs a Ph.D. in two dimensional particle physics and you will wonder why.

[user1397]

goddamn do i agree with arnieboy and aysiu on this subject.

it's all about moderation, choice, and perspective.

you shouldn't recommend scripts for everything, only when it applies.

also, you shouldn't recommend single commands/synaptic for everything, only when it applies.


I've gotta say that the only thing that bugged me about automatix at first, was that it changed my repositories list and didn't change it back when it was done. Since the new version does have the option of changing it back, i have zero problems with it now.

so, if you want a challenge, and just got into computers, linux, and ubuntu, i woulld probably recommend installing things without automatix.

if you would like to set up a usable ubuntu install really fast or if you have installed everything the normal way before and now you want to install it faster and easier, use automatix.

it's that simple.

[aysiu]

with all due respect aysiu, you have tried to learn (being a non-techie) and succeeded. However, there are ten of millions who do not want to try to understand. They want everything to work at the click of a button. We at Automatix cater to such clients too. Some of them will tell you why everyone needs a Ph.D. in two dimensional particle physics and you will wonder why.
You're still missing my point--I firmly believe in Automatix and the need for easy scripts.

My point is that there's no sense in feeling elitist about doing things "manually" as most of the "manual" stuff is pretty automatic to begin with. Automatix just makes that stuff more... automatic.

[arnieboy]

You're still missing my point--I firmly believe in Automatix and the need for easy scripts.

My point is that there's no sense in feeling elitist about doing things "manually" as most of the "manual" stuff is pretty automatic to begin with. Automatix just makes that stuff more... automatic.

i never saw a consistent point if u made one (my bad) but yeah I dont disagree with what u said in this post.

[aysiu]

It's been a long week at work. I may not be 100% coherent.

[Imexius]

I was trying to counter the oft-expressed idea that there's something to be proud of for not using Automatix ("I did it myself--look at me").

I don't see your reasoning in this respect. If they were able to do all the stuff that these scripts do by themselves then I for one will gladly tell them to give themselves a pat on the back. This way we will have more adept people to better help others out.



I've done it all myself, and I don't think it really helped me understand my system better. It's not like I'm using Slackware.

Be specific when you talk about understanding your system please. If you mean how apt works then I believe you are mistaken.

For instance, by editing your sources.list you learn that this is the place that apt uses to specify what urls to target when downloading. In contrast by simply using a script like automatix we learn that when the mouse goes clicky we magically get a program installed.

Hmm notice how we have almost completely digressed from what the original post was about... I wonder how that happened:rolleyes:

[aysiu]

Ah, but maybe I didn't understand that that was where the repositories were... or what repositories were.

What if I were just copying and pasting commands?

After all, that's pretty much what I did when I first started using Ubuntu. I just copied and pasted commands from http://www.ubuntuguide.org

It's entirely possible to copy and paste a bunch of commands to do things manually and not understand what you're doing--it just takes longer than using Automatix or another script (and even those take a little copy and paste sometimes, or adding a new repository).

Eventually I did learn what those commands meant, but at first I just wanted to copy and paste to get things working.

[Imexius]

Ah, but maybe I didn't understand that that was where the repositories were... or what repositories were.


Well if you didn't understand what the repositories were you didn't read all the documentation, that or the documentation was lacking.


What if I were just copying and pasting commands?
Well then you weren't reading the documentation now were you? :mrgreen:

[aysiu]

I'm not sure what you mean by "the documentation."

The Ubuntu Guide was pretty much a series of commands to copy and paste--not a lot of explanation involved.

[Imexius]

I'm not sure what you mean by "the documentation."

The Ubuntu Guide was pretty much a series of commands to copy and paste--not a lot of explanation involved.

I've been recommending the documentation not the guide.

[aysiu]

And all I'm saying is that not using one of these scripts does not make you a Linux guru.

And using the scripts does not mean you're a lazy know-nothing.

[Imexius]

And all I'm saying is that not using one of these scripts does not make you a Linux guru.

And using the scripts does not mean you're a lazy know-nothing.

No, and I don't think anyone gave any indication of being a guru. However using a script is definetly not going to help new users become knowledgable.

This discussion is going no where...

[aysiu]

This discussion is going no where... Agreed.

[omns]

.

[OffHand]

@ arnieboy

Is your new website also a first step into going commercial or will automatix, like ubuntu, always be free?

[omns]

.

[jdong]

Automatix is GPL'd open-source software, so even if Arnieboy chooses to make a latest release as a commercial product, the open source community can "fork" and continue developing upon the last GPL'd version.

This guarantee of freedom is one of the reasons some (including me) will insist on using open source software over "free" closed source alternatives.

[OffHand]

I think it's safe to assume that Automatix will always be free.

The site has been in operation for some time for Developer Team support. The decision to move all support there was made in the best interests of Automatix users so that they have one centralised place for support. Contrary to popular belief this was a team decision.

Never assume anything ;)

@jdong

Thanks for the info.

@ anyone who cares

In my opinion it is best to support something that focusses on Ubuntu.
Whatever product that may be. I am neutral about the two projects. I don't use it myself because it doesn't really learn you anything but if it helps people... more power to them.

[handy]

I think the point that so many don't seem to be able to accept or see or miss for some other reason, that has been stated here multiple times now (in invisible ink?):-

Most computer users, & I'm sure that more & more Ubuntu users are falling into this catagory - just don't want to learn anymore than they need to, about computing. They just want it to do the job(s) they need/want to do.

Why should they have to know what someone else thinks they should know?

Who would be so presumptuous as to draw the line that marks the minimum essential knowledge & skill level that all users must reach before they are deemed worthy & acceptable computer users... ](*,)

Who has that right outside of the class room? :rolleyes:

[kriding]

I don't recommend either script, not because I feel that users should try and figure it out for themselves (though that would be useful) but because each user to their own. if they want to use a script, then that's their choice.

As for Automatix leaving..good luck to them, if their project has developed to a point where they are expanding, then they need a cntralised, dedicated place to run from, and since they run on more then just Ubuntu, it would be better to place support in one location, rather then across multiple forums.

[zubrug]

Automatix is great, all the best on the new set-up.

I will continue to reccomend it.

[Footissimo]

Automatix didn't work for me, though I didn't really need it anyway (trying to save time on reinstall). I'm sure it's great for some people, though I think we should be recommending the wiki / guides etc so that people get a better idea of what Ubuntu is about and we're not reliant on 3rd party projects.

[SandroGP]

This is my first contribution ever in this forum. I am a very new user of Linux, and after reading all the entries in this thread I felt that I have a tale to tell in here.

I have been using Windows for many, many years now. At some point I decided that Microsoft was ripping us all off and arrogant, so I started to look for an alternative: The name "Ubuntu" kept popping up over and over in my research, so I decided to go for this distro... and there was something I liked an awful lot: I was very scared of the complexities of learning to use Linux, and this distro promised me to... "Just Work!" Well, I tell you, that did it for me because that was the most important thing for ME! Off I went to install a double boot with Windows.

But as I was using a USB Winmodem I hit my first hurdle... just trying to connect to the internet! and the manufacturer did not support Linux, I could not install an Ethernet card, and my ISP did not help at all. With some difficulty for me I found instructions in the wiki to download some packages from somewhere... but it was work, it was time, it was hassle! It was certainly not a set of instructions of the type "here it is how" that came with the CD.

Then when I finally connect to the internet through Ubuntu...:confused: :eek: Can't play my mp3's, can't play my dvd, can't watch streaming videos from the BBC, nor use youtube.... etc... :-x

And I tried easyUbuntu but did not help... I was about to quit Linux in disillusion... Because... you see... Linux was not really for the likes of me... Linux is elitist... Linux is for people who have the natural inclination and are technically minded... I was not good enough... I had a lazy mind that apparently did not want to learn.

And then... when my Linux experiment was about to end... when I was in despair at having to submit, having to toe the line, having to accept our lot and conform to the impositions of Microsoft monopoly... then came Automatix...

...

Today my computer is Not double boot any more!!!!! And is not Windows that it runs. I don't look back. I am in love... and now... only now, not before but now, I am getting myself geared to learning more about Linux... I have just enrolled at a local adult education college for a CompTIA Linux+ course.

Now. After telling you my story I wanna ask you all three questions:

1st: Do we want Linux to be a viable alternative to Windows?
2nd: Do we want this alternative to be for the many or for the few?
3rd: Does my profile fit more closely that of the many or that of the few in the GENERAL POPULATION, not just the people you may know?

Linux should be for everybody without exception! That does NOT have to mean excluding or alienating the Geek at all... because excluding any one group of users will never be good, but also it means NOT excluding the AOLer either. Why can't they live side by side using the same OS?

Let's face it:
a) Ubuntu just out of the box does not meet all the needs of an AOLer
b) You may not like AOLers.... but if you believe in democracy... you will have to grind your teeth as tight as you can... go with the grain of human nature... and wait for the desire and the disposition of people to learn to appear in their own time, in the right circumstances for them. In people's own terms.

If I had it my way, and a bit controversialy, I would include with the actual instalation CD of Ubuntu, (forget an AOLer making the effort to read through the forums and the wikis), very clear information about the existance of packages for Winmodems and about the existance of Automatix, even if those programs themselves are not included in the distribution. That could do a world of good for the spread of Linux.

Else... keep Linux... and that means knowledge and education... for the few.

Long live Automatix!

Regards,

Sandro

P.S. Please let me know if you think I should post this in a different thread.

[kenweill]

I have tried Automatix before but doesnt seems to work in my system.
Easy Ubuntu? I have never tried that.

I usually install things through the guide from ubuntuguide.org and from the Wiki's in Ubuntu Website. Or i search from this forum about installing a specific software.

[nerkman]

I would also like to add to SandroGP's post:

This is one helluva OS. Mind you, I was able to play mp3s before automatix with no problems, so I dunno what your technical issue might have been...

I think keeping 3rd party development scripts like Automatix apart is a good idea. I used Automatix and I swear by it, but I think it should be clear the choice must be there to do without.

I don't think there is any danger that Automatix will dumb down the Linux masses. I have been spreading the word about Ubuntu (or more precisely, Xubuntu, since I know a lot of people who have older laptops) and people who want to make the switch away from Windows and OS9 or OSX are willing to learn a little code.

Automatix can't do everything. But if we were to base the decision not to use Automatix as it being 'too easy' or 'will discourage newbies from learning linux' - then, you might as well uninstall Adept, apt-get, all the different package managers, even the built-in Add/Remove software option.

There's enough Linux gurus, intermediates, novices and newbies out there to keep the spirit of curiosity of learning Linux alive. The more folks we have on board, the more people will want to learn it, the more courses and funding will be available to learn and implement it.

I say hooray for making life easier!

[nerkman]

oops... [edited - double post]

[wthanna]

I highly recomend Automatix.. Regardless of whether you "know what you're doing" or not.. Some of us do many installs, and a script that saves time, as this one greatly does is much appreciated.. Sure, I can install all of this software seperately.. codecs, etc.. but why? I do not need to "learn", each and every time I do an install. If you like to waste time doing things over and over again.. when it is not necessary, then by all means, do so.. And, the arguement that "every" newbie needs to learn how to install codecs, etc. is just plain silly.. That is like saying everyone who drives a car should "learn" how to build motors.. or transmissions.. or install their own radio, before they should be allowed to play music. Some newbies (probably most) have no desire to dig in to this stuff.. You (and I) might find this fun and fulfilling, but don't force it on new users. For most newbies Automatix is going to keep them around.. able to play their music, etc.. and THEN they can learn... just my opinion.. flame away if you like :D

[SandroGP]

I was able to play mp3s before automatix with no problems, so I dunno what your technical issue might have been...

I was able to do that as well before automatix, but I had to use easyUbunty. Were you able to play mp3's OUT of the box though? I wasn't. easyUbuntu did not help me with website embedded streaming videos because it would not install Mplayer. Totem-Xine was simply not enough. Also I remember installation errors kept poping up. I got nothing of the sort with Automatix.

[handy]

I love freedom of any & every kind!

Ubuntu is the free -est OS I have discovered. Allowing the largest variety of users, to come on board.

Supporting the largest variety of users, no holds barred, is what keeps me here! :KS

Automatix has helped spread the freedom.

To me, that is what Automatix is all about.

All that may sound kind of woosy!?

Then read it again, with feeling...

[Lunixfanboy]

I recommend neither option, since learning what goes on with your OS should be part of any user's experience. If you simply want "Hey, presto", why not simply remain with Microsoft?

[mips]

Is there any place that lists all the exact packeages for each section of Automatics ?

[Bezmotivnik]

If you simply want "Hey, presto", why not simply remain with Microsoft?

The market has spoken...and that's pretty much what they said, too. :-k

Amazingly, Automatix install worked perfectly for me, and I loaded everything to install/configure at once (an severely dumb mistake, according to Murphy's lawyer). It did take an incredible amount of time, though.

I never would have bothered with 6.06 if it hadn't been for Automatix. I'm too old and fed-up to mess with futile, pointless software installation labor. I did that twenty-five years ago when there was still an excuse for it. I want to get the paint out of the bucket and onto the wall and get on with my life. Doing things the hard way has no place in my worldview.[-(

Too bad about the hostile Automatix/Easy-Ubuntu split.

I have no idea whether Easy Ubuntu would have been better, nor do I care. It's just sad that the thing diverged.

Counterproductive and immature, like most Linux forking. :rolleyes:

[andrewabc]

To be honest I find it hard to believe that many people started using a whole new OS solely because of a script that was available to install programs for them

I happen to be one of those people.
Without automatix, I wouldn't have ubuntu dual booting with windows at this time. I was interested in automatix before having ubuntu installed. Made my options easier as to which Linux OS to try. I was trying different live CDs (knoppix, DSL, some other live cd and ubuntu). Not that I tried automatix on a live cd :P

[funchords]

and Ubuntu itself also gained popularity and numbers because of Automatix.Absolutely true in my case.

Even with the "How To..." messages, it takes new users a long time to feel confident enough to do some of the things that Automatix does. Meanwhile, those new users do want to use Java and Flash and see web-based videos.

Automatixs provides some traction to keeping (hooking) these users on Ubuntu, and they quickly see that they see that it can do everything that their friends can do on their Windows computers.

[handy]

I recommend neither option, since learning what goes on with your OS should be part of any user's experience. If you simply want "Hey, presto", why not simply remain with Microsoft?

The following 2 links offer multiple good reasons to be very wary of M$, & other monsterous corporations too...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/10/06/linux_vs_windows_viruses/

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

[richbarna]

Automatix all the way !!! I like Easy Ubuntu as well and I haven't tried BUMPS, but Automatix is really going places, and I have used it without any problems at all, ever. I think it's great for newbies, non-geeks and people that just plain don't have the time for manual installs whether they know how to do it or not.

[QettoE]

What brought me to (K)Ubuntu was Automatix. It does not matter whether or not it stays here or becomes completely independent... what matters is that Automatix or other scripts make switching easier and leaves a good taste in our mouths after bitter taste of trying other distros just to wipe them off our hard drives out of frustration.

Of course I agree with the fact that these scripts MIGHT probably make new users lazy to go and do things the hard way, but not all users are computer savvy or have too much time in hand for try and error... some just don't have the patience. Linux is an OS for geeks and that's why it hasn't brought many users from Mac or Winshaft. Let's admit that a lot of users want something that "just works" and if they get the essentials setup on Linux then they'll know that it will works way better than other paying operating systems... Let's give them a chance. Something has to make it easier and available for everyone and these scripts are great helps. I'm switching slowly to Linux and whatever or whoever makes this transitions easier is my hero. Just my 2cent...

[sophtpaw]

I recommend neither option, since learning what goes on with your OS should be part of any user's experience. If you simply want "Hey, presto", why not simply remain with Microsoft?

That is a ridiculous arguement. If you want to spend hours learning what goes on with your os - fine. As it happens i'm also keen to learn what goes on under the hood.

But if Linux is about anything it is about Freedom and choice. There is no reason why people should not want to simply 'use' Linux out of the box, like going to the fridge and just opening and getting what youwant. To say either use microsoft or learn linux is to alienate a whole community of people who either don't like Microsoft or can't afford it and could benefit from GNU/Linux.

Hence, there is a whole spectrum of distro flavours.
If you wanna insist people learn about their os, why do youuse Ubuntu. Why don't you go and use Gentoo? Hey, you can spend hours learning about your os then!

[sabredog]

well the case study that you are talking of is not so simple.
Automatix users consist of the following:
1) Users (of other distros) who have heard good things about Ubuntu but who also want an easy and automated installation procedure for some commonly demanded apps.

2) Users who already have been using Ubuntu for a while and do not always want to manually do stuff. These people might be quite varied in their technical expertise as pertaining to Ubuntu and linux in general.

3) Windows and Mac users who have heard about Ubuntu AND Automatix in a journal (like pcworld) or on the internet on digg.com, slashdot.org, linux.com etc and have heard that not only is Ubuntu the best linux distro out there right now, its quite easy to set up and after installation, Automatix can help the user get up and running with almost complete multimedia support and much more.

4) Business users (like small Internet cafe owners, office mass deployers) also use Automatix to get everything up and started quickly.

5) Folks who have used linux in the past (lets say 2001) but become frustrated with the relatively steep learning curve and given up long back. Now they are back again trying out Ubuntu and Automatix after reading good things about them on the internet and are now happily married to Ubuntu and also Automatix.

I might be missing a few more categories here..

Well Automatix was the sugar coated "go for it" pill that finally (after many years of thinking about it) swayed me to install Linux and end my total reliance on Windows for my and my family's PC use. Automatix gave me an easy and polished method of adding a fantastic set of useful apps and multimedia to an already brilliant OS.

I recommend Automatix in the same sentence as Ubuntu in a number of forums I post in and have installed it now on a number of Ubuntu installations.

For a newbie, apprehensive at trying out Linux for the first time, it is a simple, easy way to get running. Equally, for a first time user of any PC, it allows playback of DVD's, assorted video files and easy installation of software not included in the distro as installed. A one stop shop as you will. Why spend an houror two in Synaptic or Apt-get when Automatix provides all quickly?

I will not stop recommending Automatix as I believe, like me, it has been the conduit to introduce a lot of new Linux users to a Windows alternative and Ubuntu in particular.

[Episteme]

Being the self-obsorbed person that I am, I had to add my 2c... That, and I can't seem to get into Arnie's website right now and my hands are idol.

I installed ubuntu for the first time this week. I've played around with linux before, but spent more time setting it up and maintaining it than using it. It was a constant process of install, make a mistake, learn and reinstall. As such, this is why I personally choose ubuntu over, say, gentoo.

Ubuntu instals easily and quickly for me (I LOVE it), but still requirs me to tweek everything to work the way I want it - both a blessing and a curse - and the reason why i choose linux over windows.

Do to constraints, both practical and legal, Ubuntu still requires me to tweek it to get it to run the way I want it (eg. playing dvd's and other propriatary multimedia formats, getting nvidia card to work optimally). This is labour intensive and requires a significant learning curve... and re-learning curve. Automatrix simplifies those tweeks.

Automatrix does NOT 'dumb it down' for me - making me a 'zombie user'. I have learned A LOT from opening up the script in gedit. Now, I use it as the foundation for my own setup script. Eventually, once I figure out mythtv and the proper settings for my soundcard,my favorite bookmarks, my secondary hard drives, I hope to add them to my script too. Learn once, use often - return to the script when necessary.

As for the original question: which script should ubuntu 'officially' recomend - why does it have to recomend one over the other? Seems counter to the principles of the ubuntu philosophy to me - but that could be my interpertation... oppinions vary.

In short - learning linux by installing it all is like trying to learn math by using advanced applied algorithmic theory... it can be done, but why torture myself? I'd much rather start with the basics and not torture myself.

[halitech]

I would have to say I'm above the "average" windows user in that I actually understand windows but for years I wanted to get away from it but everytime I tried, I would get frustrated by the extreme learning curve and run back to the "safety" of windows (not that it is safe, but I knew it and like they say, better the devil you know).

Earlier this year, I ran across Ubuntu and played with it for awhile from the live cd found that the hardware in the computer worked (networked Lexmark printer still doesn't but oh well) so decided to dual boot. I had 2 hard drives so setup was a breeze (5.10 was my first install and no pun intended). Then I wanted to actually start doing more of the things I had been doing in windows and couldn't figure them out. I finally heard about Automatix and how it set things up so I installed it and got what I consider to be a base system. (I know due to legal concerns alot of things can't be installed and keep Ubuntu as a free OS)

At first I would have to boot into windows to do certain things because I couldn't find a way of doing it in Ubuntu. Finally 1 day I decided enough was enough and I was going to learn how to do things in Ubuntu or I was throwing the computer out the window cause I was not going back to Windows. This is where I probably differ from the average Windows user, I wanted away from Windows for good. So I wiped my drives completely, installed ubuntu again, used the automatix script to get the system back up so I didn't have to fight that part of the battle again and then set out to conquer the rest of my shortcomings in knowledge.

I know I'm rambling about this but I do have a point, if it had not been for a setup script like automatix, it would have taken me alot longer to get my system so I could use it and like a typical windows user, I probably would have run back to windows yet again. Now I haven't used Easy or BUMPS so can't comment on them myself, but as many have said, having a presence here does not signify "official status" by Ubunutu so if someone needs a script, recommend what they need, not what you think they should do because your way may scare them from sharing in this great OS and that would be a great loss.

Maybe this will make sense, would you hire the boss's cousins nephew to do a job that he couldn't do simply because he was the boss's cousins nephew or would you hire the person who could do the job, even if you had no relation to him? (don't answer this if you are the boss's cousins nephew :) )

My 2cents and thanks for listening

[Miademora]

Automatix was a great deal of help for me and i assume it will remain that way regardless of the location.

[oskarloko]

Really... why url location is SO important ?

So I see no nUbuntu nor EUbuntu *offical* thread ( perhaps I'd not look very well )... but they are ubuntu-related proyects; from Ubuntu can learn and grow too.

EU and AX are great proyects to 'convert' win users to linux users.
My viewpoint:
People won't do anything if firs time they must make a lot of changes and a lot of CLI commands to hear their MP3 on Ubuntu. Just one frustating hour and they will return to Windows, horrorized.
But if with no much work, they can use Ubuntu as Windows, they'll stay here.
And, step-by-step, they will look at forum, use terminal and a command, then learn about free-gratis and gnu, see manpages about this command, etc...
It's difficult to pass from a point'nclick-nextnextnext-edonkeycrack world to linux; as less difficult it can be more users will be in.

So you want to make all this job by commands ? Ok, you can.
You don't want to have any no-free code nor format ? Ok, you can - and listen music too - without work.

Ubuntu = freedoom -> Just Automatrix
What I really think is the goal is to fix bug#1, and to get people learnt about freedom - in computers and extending to other places...


So Long Live to Automatrix ( wherever it is ) and EasyUbuntu !!

[zapcojake]

Automatix is as useful as it ever was and the nature of open source has always been fork, fork ,fork. I just checked out the Automatix website and it seems pretty nice, besides, I read a message on this forum the other day talking about how overwhelmed the servers were and that they were upgrading. Moving as much stuff off-site as is feasible will help Canonical/Ubuntu out and give them more $$$ to spend on development which is something we all benefit from.

[Bullet666]

automatix will not install on my computer, i follow the guide on the automatix website, download the package, and when i try 2 open it, it won't run. I'm using ubuntu version 6.06. Can someone please help me!!!???

[Tomosaur]

First of all, this is not a support thread. You should ask in the 'absolute beginners' forum (near the top of the forum main page' or the main support forum (beneath the beginner's one).

Aside from that, do you get any errors at all? If you tried by downloading the file, try one of the other methods.

[steven8]

Does it give you an error? Make sure you installed the version for Dapper 6.06.

I like automatix very much. It is an awesome tool which makes installing packages a breeze. Too much kvetching in these forums sometimes. ArnieBoy left because he needed to get his own place to help his users. Nothing wrong with that.

[PriceChild]

automatix will not install on my computer, i follow the guide on the automatix website, download the package, and when i try 2 open it, it won't run. I'm using ubuntu version 6.06. Can someone please help me!!!???You're probably trying to install automatix2 on dapper... which isn't supported, nor does it work.

[Zimmer]

You're probably trying to install automatix2 on dapper... which isn't supported, nor does it work.

Funny that, I run Dapper, I run Automatix2...and it works... ??????

[Tomosaur]

You're probably trying to install automatix2 on dapper... which isn't supported, nor does it work.

http://www.getautomatix.com/wiki/index.php?title=Installation


Download the correct file (depending on the release version of Ubuntu and your OS architecture (386/amd64). PowerPC is not supported!
Double click on the downloaded file to install it with gdebi or KDE's package installer.

Ubuntu 6.06 (Dapper 386) http://www.getautomatix.com/apt/dists/dapper/main/binary-i386/automatix2_1.1-2.6-6.06dapper_i386.deb

Ubuntu 6.06 (Dapper amd64) http://www.getautomatix.com/apt/dists/dapper/main/binary-amd64/automatix2_1.1-2.7-6.06dapper_amd64.deb


:confused:

[xpod]

Well i dont care about such trivialities and i`ll always take my hat off to AX etc as i reckon it can save a lot of new users a lot of extra headaches them first days with their new Ubuntu`s

Many have quite possibly had to jump through all sorts of hoops just getting their ISO`s burned and installed ok and anything that can then make the next couple of days as painless as possible is a good thing in my book..

Theres all the time in the world to learn them "proper" ways some preach of and i dont believe anyone learns any less whatsoever using AX during their first days & weeks.
It may well take a bit longer before we get round to learning the many other ways of doing things but whats the rush ??......get it working now and learn how it works later i say:D

Those who want to learn will...and those who just want everything working by having to do as little as possible are doing back flips across the floor:mrgreen:

Good stuff!!

[doobit]

I'm very happy that Automatix exists and I agree with those who use it to save time. I know how to set up and configure most distros manually, because that is my area of interest, but when I'm installing for someone else, time is the biggest factor.

[Bloch]

You're probably trying to install automatix2 on dapper... which isn't supported, nor does it work.

Automatix2 has a Dapper version. It is supported just as equally as on 6.10, if not more.
http://www.getautomatix.com/wiki/index.php?title=Installation

[oyvindaa]

I've been using Automatix for a while and it's the better option, in my opinion.

Keep up the good work arnieboy!

[QettoE]

Stop hating people. This is great that Automatix is going beyond (K)Ubuntu and we should all be happy for Automatix developers now that they have become an independent entity. To be quite honest I switched because Automatix put an end to my many many Linux frustrations as a starter.

[earobinson]

wait, why do we need an official fourm recommendation? Automatix has left? Just because the project is no longer hosted on the forums dose not mean it has left?

Edit: I cant really vote on this

[dmizer]

i've tried easy ubuntu, automatix and automatix2 many times during many installs on multiple platforms in multiple ubuntu releases and have only once been successful in making easyubuntu work (back in breezy). what's more, i generally end up with a fubard system which requires a reinstall to repair. easyubuntu never fubard my system, but i never could get it to do what it's suppose to do either.

for this reason, i voted that i don't recommend either script. however, reading through this thread has made me take a look at my philosophy in my approach to new users, as well as automatix.