vista graphics vs linux XGL

[MaximB]

after I've seen the awsome videos of XGL desktop at youtube
I just =D> and :biggrin:
I cannot even begin to compare the vista graphical desktop "looking glass" vs linux XGL graphics
yes I know linux can use "looking glass" too and that looking glass is a free open source project , but vista uses it - so we can try to compare between the two

what so special about "looking glass" anyway ???

here are some links to XGL desktop :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lawkc3jH3ws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4fRYvaTRow&mode=related&search=

and here is the vista video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnqyQotPhFY&mode=related&search=

[gnomeuser]

Having tried both the thing I like about Compiz (which is what you want to compare to Vistas offering not XGL) is that you can extend it with all kinds of plugins very easily. Also the effects in Compiz seem a bit more rounded, the Scale plugin e.g. sorta bounces windows into place, it just has a nice physical feel to it where as Vista when I tried it seems a bit to mechnical and wasn't as organic as Compiz.

In addition following the Compiz development community there has been a great focus on cloning Vistas offering feature by feature just to show that we could do what they will offer in January (maybe) today and much more.

The last thing to note is that Compiz seems to perform better, so I really don't see any contest between the two.

[prizrak]

Where is the "They both suck" button?
Honestly they do, neither does the most obvious thing I can think of when it comes to transparency. MAKE THE MOFING INACTIVE WINDOW TRANSPARENT. That has got to be the most obvious thing to do and the easiest to indicate which Window has focus.

[Stealth]

Uh, prizrak I'm pretty sure that is very possible, although it's not set as a default option. Just enable a plugin or change some setting, it'd be fairly simple to do.

[anodizer]

I prefer Xgl. However, I really love how windows can look like when using applications like windowblinds/litestep etc. These apps gave us vista looks 2 years before vista anyway.

[dabear]

Not to dissapoint you, but that's not vista at all, it's projecte looking glass; available for linux and windows(not easily installable though)..

[The J]

I haven't used Vista (yet), but I should point out that your Vista video link isn't Vista at all. It's a demo of Project Looking Glass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass) by Sun Microsystems.

Edit: Too late.

[MaximB]

Not to dissapoint you, but that's not vista at all, it's projecte looking glass; available for linux and windows(not easily installable though)..

what are you talking about ?
xgl ?

[dabear]

What am I talking about? Let me quote what you said:


and here is the vista video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnqyQotPhFY&mode=related&search=

^that is not vista, it's looking glass: http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/details.xml

edit: not highly likely that Microsoft would demonstrate another browser than IE. I even see the sun logo to the top right..

[The J]

Looking Glass is a project being worked on by Sun Microsystems that creates a 3D interface using Java. There's a link in my other post that points to a Wikipedia article about it. It has no relation to XGL or Windows Vista.

[MaximB]

I haven't used Vista (yet), but I should point out that your Vista video link isn't Vista at all. It's a demo of Project Looking Glass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass) by Sun Microsystems.

Edit: Too late.

well - that's what vista uses...no ?

[dabear]

no ?

NO! The title "Internal Review Of Microsoft Windows 3D Vista @ 2007" is just plain wrong. It's like showing an image of a bicycle, saying that "this is the new mercedes benz"

[MaximB]

so what desktop vista uses then ???

[dabear]

so what desktop vista uses then ???

It's own custom propietary developed interface. Are you trolling, or just don't you know how to search the Internet?



Microsoft is in active development of a similar technology based on DirectX, named the DWM, as part of its upcoming operating system Windows Vista.

--

Desktop Window Manager (DWM) is currently the name for the new windowing system that will be available in all versions of Windows Vista, except Starter Edition, to enable the new Aero user interface. Users will need to have a DirectX 9 capable video card to be able to use the Desktop Window Manager.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xgl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Window_Manager

edit: oh, and the graphics show in the other videos is mainly provided by the compiz window manager, with xgl (or aiglx) as the backend.

[MaximB]

just found it...my bad
but the meaning of my question is the same
as vista uses "looking glass" desktop (I mean the most immpresive possability)
and linux can use XGL - again the more immpressive desktop (yes it can use the looking glass too).

so what looks/feels better XGL or looking glass ?

[rejser]

I used looking glas as desktop for a while in ubuntu, but damn it's unstable, and java ain't known for its speed.

[ComplexNumber]

wheres the option for "neither"? i see it as being useless eye-candy. i won't be putting it on my desktop.

[Klaidas]

Where is the "I like them both" button?..

[Yossarian]

This all seems like worthless bling to me.

[23meg]

as vista uses "looking glass" desktop (I mean the most immpresive possability)IT DOESN'T.

[MaximB]

IT DOESN'T.
ok...so what vista does uses ???
I mean the 3d option.

[_simon_]

Where is the "They both suck" button?
Honestly they do, neither does the most obvious thing I can think of when it comes to transparency. MAKE THE MOFING INACTIVE WINDOW TRANSPARENT. That has got to be the most obvious thing to do and the easiest to indicate which Window has focus.

You mean like this?

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b96/snewberry1980/Screenshots/August%20Screenshots/th_likethis.jpg (http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b96/snewberry1980/Screenshots/August%20Screenshots/likethis.jpg)


Click to enlarge.

[Donshyoku]

Vista refers to its translucensy effects as "Aero Glass"... the glass indicating the the window is see-through...

Project Looking Glass was made as an external interface for Windows and Linux in 2001, but never really caught on.

Go to www.winsupersite.com to see screenshots of Vista and you will immediately notice that it is entirely different than Sun's implementation of a 3D desktop.

[patrick295767]

Linux has also to learn from Mac os x & Vista.

We had lot of good Desktop Clients. Metisse existed too :
Look how great is our fvwm + metisse: http://dev.gentoo.org/~taviso/screenshots/metisse/?C=D;O=A
http://dev.gentoo.org/~taviso/screenshots/metisse/metisse.avi

Lucky we have now Xgl !!
http://www.freedesktop.org/~davidr/xgl-demo1.xvid.avi

Best wishes to the Ubuntu Linux development team !

We still have to learn from some dashboard featueres ( + or -):
as : http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/dashboard/

[patrick295767]

Where is the "They both suck" button?
Honestly they do, neither does the most obvious thing I can think of when it comes to transparency. MAKE THE MOFING INACTIVE WINDOW TRANSPARENT. That has got to be the most obvious thing to do and the easiest to indicate which Window has focus.

You mean sthg to be used with composite & transset-df ?? ? :confused:
(there : http://forchheimer.se/transset-df/ )

[Christmas]

Where is the "They both suck" button?
Totally agree with you. They should focus on some practical interfaces imo.

[dabear]

/me likes the expose effect. I am looking forward to edgy eft knot 2, too. A recompilation of metacity with --enable-compositor will give many new effects directly in metacity, but only for Intel integrated cards, yet.

[gruvsyco]

You mean like this?

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b96/snewberry1980/Screenshots/August%20Screenshots/th_likethis.jpg (http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b96/snewberry1980/Screenshots/August%20Screenshots/likethis.jpg)


Click to enlarge.

damn dude, you just made me go and re-enable trailfocus :)

[prizrak]

You mean like this?

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b96/snewberry1980/Screenshots/August%20Screenshots/th_likethis.jpg (http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b96/snewberry1980/Screenshots/August%20Screenshots/likethis.jpg)


Click to enlarge.

Yes just like that, is it automatic? I know you can set transparency at will but when I played around with XGL/Compiz it wouldn't make inactive window transparent automagically.

[Orunitia]

Yes just like that, is it automatic? I know you can set transparency at will but when I played around with XGL/Compiz it wouldn't make inactive window transparent automagically.

Wow I didn't know until this topic that it WAS possible, but I found the option. Compiz just got a HELL of a lot better for me. :D

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4163/screenshothh7.th.png (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshothh7.png)

[kop316]

My opinion about desktops is about the same with video games: the 3D era will ruin a once very good 2d thing.

I really like xgl because it does awesome 2D things, and the 3D cube doesn't really ruin the desktop, but this looking glass/aero glass seems like it will lose the practicallity of the desktop, and make the programmers focus on eye candy and lose focus on making it actually useful.

[3rdalbum]

I have seen screenshots of Vista, and I have run XGL and Compiz. Frankly, I don't see what the fuss is about Vista's new looks. It's colourful, in a blueish-greenish kind of way, but there's nothing really so pretty about it.

Assuming that XGL stops using Shift-Delete as its kill command, and assuming some visuals bugs and one new window management regression can be fixed, my vote goes to XGL/Compiz.

Oh, and the Compiz effects should be "tightened up" a bit more by default; they gave me seasickness until I tweaked them.

[sabitha]

i never try XGL because my onboard vga card doesnt support that but i was see the video about that and very nice. :)

[omns]

.

[rejser]

What they thought at MS while constructing Vista
"Hey dudes, why not make the os itself use so much system resources that you won't be able to do anything else than look at it if you ain't got a brand new science park computer"

[GoA]

XGL/Compiz has more "stuff" than aero, but Windows/aero has nicer basic animations, buttons etc. that gnome doesn't have and which XGL/compiz cannot affect. So also gnome should have to develop a lot. And get rid of some stupid bugs such as changing folders rights recursively etc.

[GoA]

What they thought at MS while constructing Vista
"Hey dudes, why not make the os itself use so much system resources that you won't be able to do anything else than look at it if you ain't got a brand new science park computer"

If you start to think what kind of computers in year 2007 are normal, it isn't so heavy. My computer is old (Athlon 2800+ overclocked, 1 gig ram, 320 gigs hd and 6800LE) and it runs nicely. So don't complain about the system resources, Vista is meant to be used with new computers, not upgrade on it from too old ones. And same thing has been going on for a long time and I think it's the right thing to do. Things should move on. There's no sense to support way too old hardware. And for those who use compiz I have to say, when I use best settings on compiz and blur blugin it isn't so fast anymore. :)

[_simon_]

Yes just like that, is it automatic? I know you can set transparency at will but when I played around with XGL/Compiz it wouldn't make inactive window transparent automagically.

It's one of the plugins called trailfocus - you set the level of transparency you want and can exclude windows you don't want it to affect.

See screenshot.

[Carrots171]

XGL and Vista both look good visually. But XGL can run on much older hardware than Vista can... so I'd have to say that I like XGL better.

[Lord Illidan]

I like XGL..It looks cool. I would still use it if it didn't impact 3D game performance.

It was bloody fast, too.

Vista's looks are nice, too...though I wonder...are these all bling? I mean...come on, do we need these things on production pcs? XGL was very nice. But it got in the way sometimes. I have the feeling that Vista will do that too.

And as for a pure 3D experience, well I don't get it... My REAL desktop may be 3D surely, but papers don't wiggle when they are in focus, and nor do they turn transparent.

Of all the XGL features, the expose function was really really good. The Cube switch was nice, too. The wobbly windows, utterly useless.

[prizrak]

It's one of the plugins called trailfocus - you set the level of transparency you want and can exclude windows you don't want it to affect.

See screenshot.

Coolness, now if I could get it to work w/o it destroying my touchpad and tablet settings it would rule :) (Just a note: I have only played with it for a bit and then didn't really care too much to keep trying to get it to work)

[BWF89]

I voted for Vista because it just seems more practical to put your documents to the side of the screen than to just play around with rotating cubes.

That said, I think their both a bunch of crap. Why would I want to slow down my computer with a bunch of 3D stuff? It's not going to make multitasking any easier than it already would be if I just used workspaces to switch between desktops. And workspaces isn't as much of a hog on system resources as I can imagine those 2 are.

[prizrak]

I voted for Vista because it just seems more practical to put your documents to the side of the screen than to just play around with rotating cubes.

That said, I think their both a bunch of crap. Why would I want to slow down my computer with a bunch of 3D stuff? It's not going to make multitasking any easier than it already would be if I just used workspaces to switch between desktops. And workspaces isn't as much of a hog on system resources as I can imagine those 2 are.

Actually the resource hoggin is a bit on the divided side. Sure the 3D desktop takes more resources but at the same time it uses your GPU instead of the CPU. What the actual application performance gains I have no clue, but I'm guessing that windows would draw faster. XGL is still in alpha more or less. We are getting AIGLX and Metacity in the next release of Xorg and Gnome anyway so XGL/Compiz is kind of useless.

[bonzodog]

*cough*

XFCE Compositor people...does one hell of a lot of the things that compiz does, including making the inactive window transparent.

[prizrak]

*cough*

XFCE Compositor people...does one hell of a lot of the things that compiz does, including making the inactive window transparent.

XFCE is awesome in general but unfortunately on a bare side for a decent number of users. Now I'm not saying it useless or anything it's great but want satisfy the "Well Windows can do $ACTION" crowd. Gnome on the other hand seems to sit more or less fine with them :)

[dabear]

*cough*

XFCE Compositor people...does one hell of a lot of the things that compiz does, including making the inactive window transparent.
So how do I enable the compositor in xfce and where can I find more info on the effects that are available, and how to turn them on?

[bonzodog]

So how do I enable the compositor in xfce and where can I find more info on the effects that are available, and how to turn them on?

first off, make sure you have the proper drivers installed for your graphics card.

Enable the composite extension in xorg.conf, and make sure that xorg is now using it.
Add the "AllowGLXWithComposite" "True" to the bottom of the driver section.

Restart X if needed.

Login to xfce, and click Settings --> Window manager tweaks.

Last tab on there should be the compositor. tick in 'enable display composition'

There are then other boxes you can tick in for drop shadows, and there are sliders for translucency.

HINT: Do not move the popup windows slider all the way down, as it will make your desktop menu invisible.

[kopinux]

im wondering what is the 3d desktop eye candy good for?
is it for advertising?
specially that this is vista's primary caliber.

my experience with 3d desktop both with vista beta2 aero glass and xgl is that it gives me a headache/eye strain when working for hours typing projects or browsing the web or using graphic editing.

another is it hog system resources... like "turn off 3d desktop when playing games for better performance or watching a video/video editing".

[engla]

im wondering what is the 3d desktop eye candy good for?
is it for advertising?
specially that this is vista's primary caliber.

my experience with 3d desktop both with vista beta2 aero glass and xgl is that it gives me a headache/eye strain when working for hours typing projects or browsing the web or using graphic editing.

another is it hog system resources... like "turn off 3d desktop when playing games for better performance or watching a video/video editing".

While some is just fluff, many things are there to make window management more spatial, natural or intuitive. Try to expain virtual desktops without even a computer to a friend.. Try showing them the cube, and how windows can slide from one side to another, and they'll get it immediately. Then having the cube in one's mind it's easier to picture the other workspaces that are not visible, and their location & relation to the current one.

And scale (apple's expose) is very useful to find your way through lots and lots of windows..

[rnodal]

The only good thing about Vista is that computer prices are going to go down. I voted for XGL because it seemed more impresive but both of them I think are useless to me.

-r

[vladozan]

I used xgl to my windows friends just to boast about what linux can look like. Anyway i did not found any special use of it so far. I think the Vista look would offer my win friend the same possibility. I just wonder how much these eye-candy features will be usefull in work.

[Jay_Dogg]

I like neither of them. XGL (aiglx, xegl, or whatever it might be in the future) has to be available with one click of a mouse before I'm interested. I don't like Vista graphics either, but it might just do that, right?

[forrestcupp]

Xgl/compiz is cool, but I'll bet you can play uninhibited opengl games in Vista without workarounds.

[[h2o]]

Have not checked Vista, but it seems to be beutiful and contain some nice usability features.

Been using XGL for a while now, and while some things are clearly just eye-candy, some stuff is actually really useful.

* Spinning the cube when chaning workspace is much more friendly to your brain as you can now think "I have mail on the left, and gimp on the other side of the cube" instead of "I have mail on workspace 1 and gimp on workspace 4"

* Changing window transparency with the mousewheel. I use this a lot when I have to "copy" information from one window to another by typing. Instead of either spending time aligning the windows side by side or Alt-tabbing until my fingers fall apart, I just change the opacity of my window to a really low value and just write freely as I now see the information through the area I am writing on.

* Scale/Expose is really really good...