Laptop Recommendations?

[jackwhitaker3]

Hi, my macbook screen is beginning to crap out on me and I think its time to get a new laptop. I've not used Linux before but I'm sick of Apple and don't really like Microsoft/Windows so I'm thinking to buy a machine with Windows and then install Ubuntu. I'll be using it for music recording and production (Ableton Live) and would like 16gb ram, or at least 8gb with the possibility of upgrading it in the future. I don't really understand all the different kinds of processors. I've always just used Apple machines which is much simpler as there's so little choice! My budget is £700-£900. If anybody has any suggestions/ideas that would be so helpful!

[TheFu]

First, Ableton Live doesn't appear to be a Linux program. Running it through a compatibility layer will never be as good as a native app. Even if it is possible to get it working, that will likely be non-trivial without Linux expertise. If you have a friend who has done this already, great. Jump in.

Otherwise ...

Linux is not like Windows or OSX. It is more like a pure Unix (AIX, Solaris, HP-UX, Irix, Digital Unix). You should load it on whatever equipment you have and try it for a few months before spending even $20 on a new system. Just a suggestion.

And here are some alternative audio DAWs: https://alternativeto.net/software/ableton-live/?platform=linux
Hope this sets expectations.

As for which laptop, that requires lots and lots of questions as to what you think is important. Most CPUs these days are sufficiently fast as not to be an issue, but there are a few dogs out there still being pushed that really should never have seen any power, ever. The model numbers matter, greatly. People might spend $600 and get a crap CPU or $250 and get a great low-end CPU. Price isn't the only way to determine a good CPU.

Screen size? 11, 13, 14, 15, 17 inches? This is really personal preference. I found 11inches to be a little small and 15 to be too bulky. 13 ... is just right for me.

Resolution - for me anything less than 1080p is just too small, but as the resolution goes up, so does the price.

RAM - If you do video editing, Java programming or geospacial DB work, then there isn't enough RAM made for you in a laptop. OTOH, if you do almost anything else, 4G is fine and 8G is "reasonable" - Linux isn't Windows and doesn't hog RAM.

Keyboard - this is a highly personal thing. At home, I use $0.50 IBM 101m mechanical keyboards from the early 1990s. I've tried lots and lots of others and find they all don't have the right "feel." Of all laptops, only Dell seems to understand keyboard "feel" - I'm typing on a toshiba chromebook now and the chic-let keyboard sucks. Had an Acer before. Sucked and broke after 18 months of use. Don't even speak about Asus, HP, Compaq, Lenovo keybaords to me. Not a fan.

Ports - what external devices do you want to connect? I want eSATA for storage. USB3 should be faster based on specs, but it isn't. USB2 - forgetaboutit, but sometimes only USB2 ports will boot Linux, so you know. Most of the newer external display ports just seem to be a way to get more money from us to me. I'm still using VGA and HDMI outputs. Coming from Apple stuff where they change connectors every 2 yrs to require new monitors, keyboards, and other accessories, you'll be pleased to know that won't happen if/when you truly switch to Linux. The hardware you can choose isn't driven by marketing anymore. ;!

Networking - for me an ethernet GigE port is mandatory. Wifi use is minimal. WIth many laptop makers, you'll want to know the exact wifi chips used to know what bandwidth/connection speed you will really get. The default wifi chips often are the lowest speed that meets the specs for that standard. The $15 extra for a better chip might be worth it. I learned this the hard way with a Dell. My "N" wifi laptop only supports 75Mbps connections. The spec supports up to 300Mbps ... which would be nice.

Weight - I've carried 20+ lb luggables, 10 lb laptops and 5 lb laptops. Now have a sub-3lb device. Can't imagine carrying more. Tried going to an android tablet and 4.5inch debian tablet. Android isn't enough of an OS for me. The 4.5inch tablet provided everything I needed except a big screen and keyboard. The CPU was slow, but at the time, that didn't matter. Swapping batteries was needed a few times a day. Trade-offs.

Battery life - I didn't care about battery. 10 minutes was sufficient for my first 20 yrs. Then I started traveling, a lot. 4 hours wasn't sufficient - got an 8 hr battery device and still needed to carry a charger for day trips. My current machine gets almost 11 hrs of battery. No charger needed unless going overnight.

So, what is important to you?

Without knowing anything, I'd say look at the Dell XPS 13. I can't afford it, but if you need local processing and a better-than-Apple laptop, it really is the main choice.

[ajgreeny]

As you appear to be in UK there are several companies which will sell machines with no OS already installed, most of which if you customise the hardware will run Ubuntu out of the box.

I am reluctant to give you details of all the companies I know of but I think a quick search for laptops in UK with no OS will find most of them for you.

Many users still insist that clever buying of a machine with pre-installed Windows, and then dual booting with Ubuntu is the best way to go.

However, now that just about all machines are using UEFI, and some makers have non-standard UEFI firmware that puts problems in the way of installing Linux, I am less sure about that. I have not used Windows properly since 2005 so I am not the right person to talk about dual booting, but many users do so with success even using the newest hardware.

[jackwhitaker3]

Thanks for your reply - really helpful! I'll definitely try Linux before I get something new. My current laptop is 13inch screen which is fine for me. I do want a screen that it fairly decent to look at, as I've seen some that give me a headache almost immediately - not sure why but some seem to flicker really badly? The only ports I use are 2xUSB. 3 might be handy though. I'm not really bothered by weight or battery as I don't take it out of the house much. Checking out the Dell XPS 13 and it looks pretty good..

[tea for one]

Thanks for your reply - really helpful! I'll definitely try Linux before I get something new. My current laptop is 13inch screen which is fine for me. I do want a screen that it fairly decent to look at, as I've seen some that give me a headache almost immediately - not sure why but some seem to flicker really badly? The only ports I use are 2xUSB. 3 might be handy though. I'm not really bothered by weight or battery as I don't take it out of the house much. Checking out the Dell XPS 13 and it looks pretty good..

You may wish to consider a laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed:-

https://www.entroware.com/store/laptops

[TheFu]

You may wish to consider a laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed:-

https://www.entroware.com/store/laptops

Look through the support sub-forums first. See how they do for upgrades. I honestly believe this is a learn it later issue. The effort of learning to install Linux on your hardware **is** very worthwhile. You'll need to know how to do it and which HW causes issues.

In the Linux ecosystem, desktop users really are expected to upgrade to a new release every 2 years (approximately). Some upgrade every 6 months and some try to go for 5 yrs because they don't understand that only core programs are maintained and most non-vendor programs are not. Supported apps is a non-trivial thing. I'm an LTS guy - have a few 12.04 servers running still, a bunch of 14.04 and 1 16.04 non-production server. This desktop is 14.04, but my netbook/chromebook has 16.04 as a trial. Plus needed the newer release to support that newer hardware.

BTW, that Dell XPS13 is a beautiful machine, too bad even the entry level costs so much. I've seen a few of the top level versions in the wild in the hands of some true Linux experts - they are amazing machines. The guys running them are Apple HW converters - they bought Apple HW, but ran Linux full time. Just loved the hardware. Plus their companies bought the machines.

For my needs, I don't plan to spend over $400 on a laptop again. For me, it isn't about CPU after a certain minimal is met. Any laptop is just a remote access device back to my private cloud where there is plenty of CPU available. I don't need a powerful CPU with lots of RAM locally.

[jackwhitaker3]

Does anybody know how well the xps 13 9350 works with ubuntu? edit: looks like it's fine if you just replace the wifi card - http://digitaltopo.net/o/?p=243

[TheFu]

http://www.tomsguide.com/answers/id-2982677/dell-xps-ram-upgradable.html - beware of upgrade limitations.

[jackwhitaker3]

Yeah that's true I don't like the idea of being locked in with RAM and hard drive. Checking out the Precision 3510 now and it looks like a better option. Thanks.

[TheFu]

Yeah that's true I don't like the idea of being locked in with RAM and hard drive. Checking out the Precision 3510 now and it looks like a better option. Thanks.

Yep. There are trade-offs to be made. I've seen the 15 inch Dell - good friend has one. It is 2-3x thicker than the XPS 13, but still not bad. OTOH, it is heavy. I have a Dell Studio 1558 (1st Gen Core i5) with 1080p that I used to travel with. I has been a good-to-great laptop for what it was. The last 6 months (it is 6 yrs old) it has been acting up. At boot, I get flashing red/blue/green screens if any external cables are connected. The keyboard occasionally gets stuck repeating a single key forever. I haven't taken it out of the house in 2-3 years. The lid is propped open for better cooling. It drives 2 1200p monitors and is connected to a KVM switch, so the keyboard and laptop screen has been barely used the last 4+ yrs. Every few years, I replace the HDD - started with 320G --> 500G --> 750G now. Comparing performance - that Core i5 CPU is 1/3rd slower than a Core i3 in a chromebook now.
Core i5 M450 = 2140 passmark (laptop $750 in 2011)
Core i3-5015U = 3150 passmark (chromebook $430 in 2016)

Just sayin'. For a happy end-user experience, a passmark of 1500-ish is needed to make normal GUI productivity apps feel snappy. Hi-end Core i7 CPUs are in the 7500-9000 passmark range. A chromebook isn't the best answer for someone unfamiliar with Linux and unwilling to void the warranty. Took me 4 months to get Ubuntu loaded on my latest chromebook. If I were doing it again, I get a regular laptop with similar build to the chromebook. A year ago, those didn't exist without paying $200 more ($630 total) for the same machine.

A desktop 1st Gen Core i5-750 from 2010 has about 3700 passmark. Laptops make us over-pay for performance and reduce upgrade capabilities. If you need performance in a laptop, best to get no more than you require. Passmark isn't a perfect measure, but it is close enough for comparisons with general purpose workloads. Don't get too caught up with 100 point differences.

[jackwhitaker3]

I think I've found the one: http://outlet.euro.dell.com/Online/SecondaryInventorySearch.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=dfb&cs=ukdfb1&key=WjSVing4ZtRytEbMNmbv%2bQ%3d%3d&puid=bb6584e6
(http://outlet.euro.dell.com/Online/SecondaryInventorySearch.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=dfb&cs=ukdfb1&key=WjSVing4ZtRytEbMNmbv%2bQ%3d%3d&puid=bb6584e6)



Precision M3510
Processor: Intel® Core™ i5-6300HQ Processor (6M Cache, up to 3.20 GHz)
Windows 10 Pro (64bit)
8 GB (2x4GB) 2133MHz DDR4 Memory Non ECC
500 GB 2.5inch SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
No Optical Device
Intel 8260 Dual band 2x2 802.11ac Wi-Fi + Bluetooth 4.1...


just need to figure out if its gonna work with linux without too much playing around.

Edit: Also posted this in the 'new to ubuntu' section of the forum.

[kennster2]

Acer is usually good in terms of value for money:)

[Wadim_Korneev]

I was about to recommend some laptops within the $1,000+ range. So you basically want a low level laptop.

You can get away with using something like the Acer Laptop Aspire E E5, just find a model with 8GB of RAM and a speedy Core-i5 processor. Those are generally right under the $700 price tag.

The HP Pavilion 15-p151nr is another one. Again it has a speedy i5 processor, but many models only have 4GB of RAM. And they they're currently just over $500, I've noticed they drop under $500 from time to time.

[guinea2]

If your looking for a cheap laptop that runs ubuntu just fine, there is the Acer Aspire One Cloudbook 11, I use it as my ubuntu computer and it runs just fine (better than windows honestly), but the issue is that it only comes with 30gb hard drive storage, but you can easily buy a external hard drive and get more space that way. But, that laptop is a good choice if you want a computer that runs linux easily and is cheap. (Just a warning, the ONLY way I was able to get ubuntu on it was to erase everything and install ubuntu as when I installed it anywhere else the computer wouldn't find it).

Just a note, since you are looking for a computer that has 8GB or more ram this laptop would not be the one for you, as it has only 2GB of ram, but it is still a good choice for a cheap computer that runs ubuntu.