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bored2k
April 1st, 2005, 01:29 AM
Someone send me what I think is a good joke today, so wanted to share it with the community ;) :


A French teacher was explaining to her class that in French, unlike English, nouns are designated as either masculine or feminine. "House" for instance, is feminine -- "la maison." "Pencil", however, is masculine -- "le crayon."

A student asked, "What gender is 'computer' ?"

Instead of giving the answer, the teacher split the class into two groups, male and female, and asked them to decide for themselves whether "computer" should be a masculine or a feminine noun.

Each group was asked to give four reasons for their recommendation.

The men's group decided that "computer" should definitely be of the feminine gender ("une ordinateur"), because:
1. No one but their creator understands their internal logic;
2. The native language they use to communicate with other computers is incomprehensible to everyone else;
3. Even the smallest mistakes are stored in long term memory for possible later retrieval; and
4. As soon as you make a commitment to one, you find yourself spending half
your paycheck on accessories for it.

The women's group, however, concluded that computers should be Masculine ("un ordinateur"), because:
1. In order to do anything with them, you have to turn them on;
2. They have a lot of data but still can't think for themselves;
3. They are supposed to help you solve problems, but half the time they ARE
the problem; and
4. As soon as you commit to one, you realize that if you had waited a little longer, you could have gotten a better model.


The women won.
:cry:

( It's how the joke goes people, not my decission ! )

Now comes the question, what is in your opinions the genre of 'computer' ? And why ?

jdodson
April 1st, 2005, 01:33 AM
i mean mean no offense by this, but jokes like that are not really funny. extending social stereotypes rooted in patriarchy is not something that is funny(my equity feminist side talking now). i know plenty of people who do not fit the definitions the joke describes.

i do not mean to attack you and i am not upset. i just really don't appreciate stereotypes, especially aimed at gender. its my feminist nature.

i have heard people use stereotypes to describe men and women that were completley demeaning. i would rather focus on the difference in all people than what we perceve to be "gender" specifics. i think rather, there is no innate difference beyond the physical in men and women. i think our differences lie in societies "roles" for us and how we should act because of our age long traditions rooted in gender inequality and patriarchy. i do not think because someone has a uterus that makes them somehow more in touch with feelings than someone with a *****. i do not think because someone has testicles that makes them a better hunter than someone with breasts. lately in the united states some of our high education institutions have stated that women might be less inclinded to be good at engineering or math. from my expierience this statement is bunk. just because there might be a low enrollment for women in math or eng. does not logically follow that it is because it is a female genetic or brain problem. i think the problem lies in society and patriarchy, not sex.

please forgive my rant. :neutral:

bored2k
April 1st, 2005, 01:43 AM
Quoting Robot Chicken (http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/ShowMainServlet/showid-33630/)'s 2nd chapter, I just got served by Jdodson :-S ..

P.S. - Sorry if its offending, I can delete if y'all want to :\ .

edit - that avatar is really intimidating :-&

KiwiNZ
April 1st, 2005, 01:55 AM
If we lose the ability to laugh at ourselves we lose much more , we lose our humanity . Humour is not a bad thing , lack of it is.

Whilst I agree with a lot of political correctness I believe that humour in the right context is good .

The above joke was not gender biased , it presented a point a view from both aspects .

The bottom line is males have behaviour habits that are different to females , and vice versa , its a fact , and its okay.

Are we going to ban jokes like "A chicken goes into a bar...." they are demeening to chickens , bar owners .

Alas I can see a day down the track that our society will lose the ability to laugh because it may not be correct to do so .

Damm this is deep for a Friday .

bored2k
April 1st, 2005, 02:03 AM
The last thing on my mind was to offend anyone nor heat things up in here :\ . I know only jdodson said that [for now] but after reading his *two cents* I get his point and from that POV it is a bad "joke" . I'm basically caught off guard here, so sorry to anyone offended.


P.S. It's still thursday here. 8.50pm

KiwiNZ
April 1st, 2005, 02:04 AM
Yeah the rest of the World is always behind us :-P

jdodson
April 1st, 2005, 02:36 AM
If we lose the ability to laugh at ourselves we lose much more , we lose our humanity . Humour is not a bad thing , lack of it is.

i agree.


Whilst I agree with a lot of political correctness I believe that humour in the right context is good .

i agree as well.


The above joke was not gender biased , it presented a point a view from both aspects .

the above joke is based in rampant gender stereotypes. i never said it was biased twoard a gender. thought the punchline might disagree with me. again i did not say it was a gender biased or male/female chauvanist joke.


The bottom line is males have behaviour habits that are different to females , and vice versa , its a fact , and its okay.

actually i really don't agree. i know my idea is not popular, however i really dont think because someone is male or female that they behave certain ways. there are so many exceptions to stereotypical rules that i think we should focus on the differences in all people instead of stereotypical gender typecasting. i think it is society that shapes how men and women behave and not chromasomes and dna. society does a disservice to everyone in mandating that men are a certain way and women are a certain way. that is why some guys come off as a little "girly" or some women as "too masculine."



Are we going to ban jokes like "A chicken goes into a bar...." they are demeening to chickens , bar owners .

nowhere in my post did i say anything about banning or censorship. i did not close this post, i simply disagreed with the joke. the ubuntu philosophy allows for respectful disagreement. if i am coming across as disrespectful i apoligize, it is not my intent. it is my intent to voice my disagreement with socially constructed gender typecasting. feel free to disagree with me. i am censoring no one, nor do i dislike anyone who disagrees with me. i am not attempting to changes anyones mind, i am simply disagreeing.

i am not sure why it logically follows that just because something is a joke it is demeaning. i dont see why it logically follows that just because a chicken enters a bar it is demeaning. i think you are mixing issues. i dont think jokes are bad. i think certain kinds of jokes are not good. does that make me devoid of humor? no.


Alas I can see a day down the track that our society will lose the ability to laugh because it may not be correct to do so .

just because i disagree does not mean i dont laugh or am devoid of humor. if someone posted a joke about the black people and white people and stereotypical differences, who would laugh. i really dont think that taking any kind of person and stereotyping them is good. it is popular to stereotype and laugh, personally i dont think it is funny. you can disagree with me, i can handle that.


Damm this is deep for a Friday .

i agree:)


again, i am not calling for censorship. i am simply disagreeing with how people view men and women and rampant societal gender typecasting.

and btw, i am not offended. i just disagree with the joke.

if my disagreement makes me politically correct then so be it. i have been called much worse:)

TravisNewman
April 1st, 2005, 04:07 AM
There are certain biological differences between men and women, however. No, I'm not saying men should hunt and women should keep the house clean because of biology, but obviously biology plays a part. Because of child-bearing capability, women are much less prepared for sudden changes in weather. Their body fat distribution is all wacked up. However, for the same reason I'd theorize, women have a much higher pain tolerance than men. See how biology affects the body? Why wouldn't it affect the mind as well? Have you ever seen a man on estrogen, before/after? A woman on testosterone before/after? There are medical conditions that require people to take the opposite hormone. Basically, they start taking on "stereotypical traits" of the other sex, because of the hormones. These hormones cause SERIOUS differences in the way the brain works. Therefore, some stereotypes are valid. Never in 100% of cases, of course. However I do think a large part of why people "act their sex" is because of culture. And that's a problem. But regardless-- I know a lot of guys who won't do crap for their significant other unless they're getting "turned on" as the joke suggests, and I know a lot of girls/women who won't do anything unless their significant other is buying them things, paying for meals, etc.

While I DON'T find the joke amusing, I don't think it's malicious, from any angle. It does point out stereotypes, in a joking manner, but I don't think it really reinforces them.

jdodson-- I'm with you totally, I consider myself feminist. I also consider myself very open-minded and with a good sense of humor.
I can laugh at a joke (as long as it's funny, and...) as long as the joke being made isn't malicious, or if they aren't just going after one demorgraphic (look at South Park, for instance. If it were anyone else, I wouldn't laugh at most of that, but it's OBVIOUS that they're literally making fun of everyone and everthing, and milking every stereotype dry. Look at their episode about the Mormons. I laughed hard. Why? Shouldn't I be offended? No, they also make fun of every other religion, including atheism and agnosticism. They make fun of every political figure, both major parties. The key is, they make fun of people as a whole, not individuals, or really even groups. Everyone is funny, every trait is funny, every belief is funny. If Trey and Matt made an episode of South Park about every belief and trait that I have, it would still be funny to me, because I'm funny. People are funny. The word "funny" is getting old, but ya know what? It's funny!).

To paraphrase Lewis Black, everything is funny. Patriotism is funny, Religion is funny, but when you lose the ability to step back and laugh at yourself and others you go insane and fly an airplane into a skyscraper.

So to end, I think everyone has the right to laugh at anything and everything, as long as they can laugh at themselves, and people who are offended by that need to lighten up before they go crazy. In the context of this joke, it's not PROMOTING stereotypes, it's just using them, and the ability to laugh at both sides is great.

Still didn't think it was funny though ;)

Edit: I knew there'd be an edit! I just wanted to say, I'm not making any speculation on anyone here. Specifically, I'm not saying you were offended by the joke, jdodson, I was just referring to people who get offended by humor easily.

ubuntu_demon
April 1st, 2005, 10:27 AM
panickedthumb I completly agree with you here except for the fact that I think bored2k's joke was funny.

behavior comes from nature and nurture ie. biology,culture, how you are raised, your friends and your environment. Behaviour is complex but the fact remains that in general there are differences between men and women like mentioned in the joke.

edit :

People shouldn't be judged only on stereotypes. The reality is that our mind stereotypes everything to create a bit of order in the world around us. Classification is necessary in order to think. In practice this might mean that you don't trust your initial feeling about someone and put it aside.

KiwiNZ
April 1st, 2005, 10:44 AM
It is so important to be able to laugh at ones self, it does so much for you .
It helped me alot when I was in the wheelchair and facing the rest of my life in it I could not have lasted I think if I couldnt make jokes about it . Being able to joke helped keep my spirit intact until I was ready to fight .
And when I was ready to fight the ability to see humour in myself allowed the battle to be that little bit easier to bear. It took several years of pain to fight that fight and I won the fight .
You have heard the saying "laughter is the best medicine" , well it is true. Believe me tears really are the worst medicine.

jdodson
April 1st, 2005, 07:17 PM
there was a lot posted since i last checked, i will attempt to address the issues i find most pertinent.

i really don't have much to say on the whole "gotta laugh at life" thing more than that i agree. i do think some things are not funny though. one of those things is fruitless(i.e. no redeeming quality to it) rampant social stereotyping. for instance television shows seem to take two comedic paths. one path is playing up the social stereotypes of men and women(or any people group for that matter, gay, straight, black, white, etc) and make no greater social commentary about it. i.e. a typical sitcom episode could be middle class married male somehow gets into trouble with his wife because he is can not grow up, or does something stupid. he spends the rest of the show digging himself further into a hole and his wife is left to "be the adult." finally in the last 2 minutes they resolve the fight(gotta love t.v. for its portrayal of reality) and no one really learns anything. contrast that with a different tv show that plays on social stereotypes but attempts to bring out some kind of message about society and how we treat each other and our rampant inconsistencies. one of my favorite shows is the simpsons because #1) it is funny #2) they play on stereotypes with a biting social criticism. i think there is a difference between cheap stereotypical humor, so the mass can have their entertainment and a biting social commentary in the form of stereotype humor. also, as panickedthumb mention in the case of south park, they make fun of everyone. the simpsons is just like that, they play on every stereotype. i really do not see that they focus on just men being stupid, like many "family" sitcoms do. i have seasons 1-5 and i could give examples line by line of this, but i dont want to type that much.:) anyways, fwiw.

to respond to panicked thumbs comment on the biological and chemical differences in men and women. i can and will not deny this. my argument was never that there are no biological or chemical differences. my case in point is that society shapes us more that our biology. society shapes our views of what "men" and "women" are since our birth. in the united states power is held mostly by men. lately though, women have been gaining more positions, and i think that they will keep gaining positions. however, by and large in most societies(united states not being an exception) power has been traditionally held by men. i mean lets face it, women could not vote until the 20th century in the united states. it is true for many other parts of the world too. this system is known as patriarchy. men have ran the worldwide show for a long time, and still do. i believe this is because of socially constructed ideals about men and women. it is a old traditional idea that men are better leaders than women. is idea because of the biological differences in men and women? have men run the show for so long because of brain differences? are our biological differences because men are superior? i really do not think biology lends itself to separating power in that regard. i think it is some other "outside" force that causes this gap in gender equality. many people say "god" imposed roles for men and women. christians, muslims and many other world religions cite "roles" for men and women ordained by god. to be quite honest i dont think "god" ordains a place for men and women solely. i think society has hijacked religion in this(and many other) instances.

it seems to me that since we are biological and chemical in our construction, then there is something else we must consider. there are no people who are identical in personality or character. some people range from being a very happy person, to suicidal(for whatever reason). i also believe that no two men or women have the exact chemical or brain makeup. sure our brains are VERY similar, however, just like personality, our bodies have variances. for instance, someone who is depressed constantly could have a chemical misfiring happen in their brain. taking drugs could effect that in a positive regard. since people have variances in chemical levels then that could account for differences in a sex type, such as men. i will provide a graph example.

lets assume that testosterone plays a part in if men get angry or not. i am not saying that it does, however lets assume that it does. so a man with a very low testosterone level would be pretty docile and a man with a high testosterone count would be very rage filled. here is a graph:

testosterone-o-meter
(i love everyone!) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (look out!)

now my question is, where do most people fit into this scale? where is a scientifically proven scale? to be quite honest, i dont think you can have one. i really dont think you can know because of societal pressure since our birth. since birth we have been bombarded with images of what males do, and what females do. i really do not think we can separate what we are biologically, with what society tells us we are. when i left windows for ubuntu, i still want to go back to windows. even when i knew i could do everything in gnu/linux i could do in windows, it still felt right to be in windows. this is because(after my commodore 64) my computing lifestyle was on dos and windows. i knew nothing else. everyone i knew used windows pcs. i though the term pc actually meant windows machine(when in actuality it means personal computer)!

basically my point is that society shapes our gender stereotypes and roles since birth. there are SO many variances in these traditional concepts of men and women that i would rather focus on the differences in all people that what men and women "should be." also, what do we make of biological differences in men and women? if there really are ways that "men" and "women" are then how should we treat those differences? how have we treated those differences?

anyways, i do not mean to be "the killer of humor." i dont think that because i bring up something i disagree with that means i can not laugh my life, or life in general. i think humanity is funny at times, and at times we are a sad bunch. i do attempt to keep upbeat about things generally. check my website videos, and my band roy for more information on my attempts at humor.

kassetra
April 1st, 2005, 08:50 PM
My thoughts.

I have to admit I thought this joke was humorous. I snickered to myself. Part of the reason I thought it was funny in this case was bored2k's "unhappy" smiley face. The fact that he "participated" in the joke extended it out to an exaggerated level.

One of the reasons I think some jokes that use stereotypes are funny is because it's a parody or a *greatly* exaggerated behavior. No one is ever as extreme as the exaggeration of the stereotype.

The one caveat to this is that it has to be exaggerated - almost to absurd levels; because then I feel that it shows just how stupid stereotypes are. The simpsons, south park, et al are perfect examples of how they knock every stereotype *and* they do it with absurd exaggeration, and to me that makes it very funny, and at the same time, non offensive.

If a joke is simply using a stereotype as the deus ex machina, then no, I think it's not funny at all. The "family" sitcom with the stupid male, the smart sassy but yet utterly devoted female, etc. stinks of an "average" of stereotypes, and not an exaggeration - which to me, makes it boring, cliche, un-funny, and worst of all, offensive.

One episode of the simpsons actually comes to mind. Krusty the clown quits show business when he performs at a comedy event and no on laughs at his "old" jokes about women drivers, asian accents, etc. Those kinds of "average" stereotype jokes are not funny - they're offensive.

I think, in this case, the joke was less about offensive stereotypes, differences between men and women, etc. and more about the exaggerated complaints each gender has for the opposite sex -- and bored2k's smiley face pushed the joke "over the top" to make it funny for me.

If the end of the joke had been, "And so un ordinateur was chosen, and the girls in the class started crying until it was changed to une ordinateur... and of course that caused all the boys to be pissed, but what are you going to do when the girls cry?" ... That would have been very offensive - and the joke would have lost the "third-person" aspect that it has now of just the exaggerated "complaints" from each side about the other.

az
April 1st, 2005, 10:21 PM
A short post:

1- I know women. I married a woman. I have two daughters. Women are not equal. They are better.
They are more complicated than us and that makes the joke hilarious. My wife read it and said: "Ain't that the truth!"

When you go through the struggle of raising two small kids and are exhausted 24/7 for three years straight, you get to know that there are differences between the two sexes that each must live with. This is not a derogatory statement, but a fact one must face to make a relationship survive under such harsh circumstances.

I remember watching Bill Cosby talk about fatherhood. When describing men as parents, he put on the most stupid and confused face and walked around the stage clueless. I thought it was cute at the time.
It is hilarious now, because when I watch my wife function, I truly am cluless.


2- To be fair, ordinateur is masculine. As in un ordinateur, or l'ordinateur. My three-year-old daughter who speaks french to my wife ("maman") calles her 166MHz laptop le 'tit nordinateur. Tuxpaint Rocks!

jdodson
April 1st, 2005, 10:36 PM
1- I know women. I married a woman. I have two daughters. Women are not equal. They are better.

i am sorry azz i disagree with you. women are not better than men they are equals.

KiwiNZ
April 1st, 2005, 10:58 PM
Apart from the biological differences and the basic intellectual sameness there are habitual differences thatmake the genders different. Men and women think and act different and that is where the humour can be , as in this joke.

Again I say laughter is the best thing. Heck I even managed to laugh at myself when I was in the ICU .
During the time I was in the chair I saw a show by a disabled comedian Steady Eddie . His jokes were about the disabled . His show made me see humour in my situation , it made me laugh , through that laughter came a change of spirit that gave me hope and gave me the strength I needed to fight the fight I had to fight.
Becoming disabled at 24 when we were expecting our first child could have easily ended my life there and then. But I believe being able to laugh at myself so a key to my successfull fight.

We take ourselves to seriously in the politically over correct World.

Dont forget that your God gave you laughter for a reason . Use it .

TravisNewman
April 2nd, 2005, 02:48 AM
I'd like to say, first off, that I agree with everything everyone has said, except at times I DO think women are better than men, though I tend to think that those are the female strengths that I see that men don't have for the most part. Men have their own strengths, and, being of the male persuasion, I don't notice them as much. So I agree with you, azz, that women are better than men, but I agree with you, jdodson, that they are equal. If that makes sense.

And furthermore, to jdodson, I wasn't saying YOU were offended, or that you exemplified anything in my post at all-- I tend to go off on tangents. Wanna talk about chemical misfiring in the brain? ADD, all the way ;)

and KiwiNZ-- man you impress me beyong words. You've gone through quite a bit to get to where you are, and it shows that it has enlightened you very much.

az
April 2nd, 2005, 03:20 AM
Les hommes ont deux cerveaux; un petit et un gland.

That does not translate well, sorry.

It is not right to generalize, true. My wife amazes me at her abilities and selflessness. I suppose this is brought into evidence by having kids together. I was to be the one to stay home and raise the kids, but at the last minute, I had an opportunity at a better career and ended up making more money than my wife.

I could do the job, but not as well as my wife.

Your mileage may vary.

jdodson
April 2nd, 2005, 03:56 AM
Les hommes ont deux cerveaux; un petit et un gland.

That does not translate well, sorry.

It is not right to generalize, true. My wife amazes me at her abilities and selflessness. I suppose this is brought into evidence by having kids together. I was to be the one to stay home and raise the kids, but at the last minute, I had an opportunity at a better career and ended up making more money than my wife.

I could do the job, but not as well as my wife.

Your mileage may vary.

i respect that.

on a strange completley off-the-wall sidenote, did you hear shatners latest album?

bored2k
April 2nd, 2005, 04:25 AM
i respect that.

on a strange completley off-the-wall sidenote, did you hear shatners latest album?
I thought he only sang for commercials making fun of himself LOL .

TravisNewman
April 2nd, 2005, 09:14 AM
i respect that.

on a strange completley off-the-wall sidenote, did you hear shatners latest album?
Own it. Love it. Cherish it. Ben Folds did most of the music, which just adds to my love of the album. I adore Ben. Shatner did an album back in the 70s as a joke, and decided to do it again. Only this time (while there are funny things) it's a serious album. I wouldn't call what Shatner does "singing" though. More beatnick poet vibe than anything. Shat also did a song with Ben on the "Fear of Pop, Vol 1" album (Ben Folds' semi-electronica side project) that was really good.

Buy it. Listen to it. Make all your friends listen to it. It's amazing.

Anyway, it seems we all agree on the issue, so all is good. But it started another deep conversation we seem to have a lot of, so hey!

ubuntu_demon
April 2nd, 2005, 12:23 PM
Own it. Love it. Cherish it. Ben Folds did most of the music, which just adds to my love of the album. I adore Ben. Shatner did an album back in the 70s as a joke, and decided to do it again. Only this time (while there are funny things) it's a serious album. I wouldn't call what Shatner does "singing" though. More beatnick poet vibe than anything. Shat also did a song with Ben on the "Fear of Pop, Vol 1" album (Ben Folds' semi-electronica side project) that was really good.

Buy it. Listen to it. Make all your friends listen to it. It's amazing.

Anyway, it seems we all agree on the issue, so all is good. But it started another deep conversation we seem to have a lot of, so hey!
So if there's clearity in this matter it's time for another provoking joke :-P

jdodson
April 2nd, 2005, 06:18 PM
So if there's clearity in this matter it's time for another provoking joke :-P

im ready #-o

bored2k
April 2nd, 2005, 06:25 PM
*Puts on King Arthur's Armour, on top of it 50 Cent's Bulletproof Vest, and then Frodo's necklace given by the nice Lady Elf* :roll:

kassetra
April 2nd, 2005, 07:45 PM
*Puts on King Arthur's Armour, on top of it 50 Cent's Bulletproof Vest, and then Frodo's necklace given by the nice Lady Elf* :roll:

LOL it wasn't you everyone got so hot over, so no worries!

Ninjakiwi
August 3rd, 2009, 02:36 AM
merci de votre part

c'est une bonne idée

il semble intéressant



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CJ Master
August 3rd, 2009, 02:51 AM
Only on Ubuntuforums can a topic start as a joke, then turn into a debate (about that very joke) and then turn into a discussion about music and having fun. O_o

JordyD
August 3rd, 2009, 03:00 AM
Only on Ubuntuforums can a topic start as a joke, then turn into a debate (about that very joke) and then turn into a discussion about music and having fun. O_o

And then revive it 4 years later.

lisati
August 3rd, 2009, 03:03 AM
And then revive it 4 years later.

Hush: before we get accused of necromancy!

Some good points have been raised in this thread. (My $0.02: does "equal" as in "equal value" have to mean "absolutely identical"? Vive la difference?)

swoll1980
August 3rd, 2009, 03:06 AM
I just realized this was that old.

calrogman
August 3rd, 2009, 07:08 AM
What is this wizardry! We have a necromancer among us!