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BWF89
August 8th, 2006, 01:47 PM
If companies actually use this it it'll give people more of a reason to buy a Mac. Especially if they have kids.

TransGaming's brand new Mac portability engine, Cider, gets Apple users to the core of gaming.

No longer will Mac users be forced to wait months or years for the few top tier titles to get into their hands. With Cider, video game developers and publishers will finally have access to the rapidly growing Mac market, quickly, easily, without the costly price tag of traditional, arduous porting. Thanks to Cider, video game developers and publishers can extend their content to the Intel Macs quickly, cost-effectively, and with little to no effort on their part.

Stemming from the same technology foundation as TransGaming’s technical sensation, Cedega, Cider empowers game developers and publishers to release Mac editions of their titles. Cider is so effective that publishers will be able to simultaneously deploy the Mac and Windows versions of their titles, even for new games already in development. With Cider, whole catalogues of games can be easily brought to a brand new audience starving for games. Another great benefit is that games migrated to Intel Mac using Cider will also run on Linux under Cedega, forging a path to another game hungry market.

Cider is a sophisticated portability engine that allows Windows games to be run on Intel Macs without any modifications to the original game source code. Cider works by directly loading a Windows program into memory on an Intel-Mac and linking it to an optimized version of the Win32 APIs. Games are simply wrapped up in the Cider engine and they work on the Mac. This means developers only have one code base to maintain while keeping the ability to target multiple platforms. Cider powered games use the same copy protection, lobbies, game matching and connectivity as the original. All this means less work and lower costs. Cider is targeted at game developers and publishers and, unlike Cedega, is not an end user product.

Why should developers and publishers consider the Mac market? In the last quarter alone, Apple shipped almost a million Intel Macs, outpacing iPod sales for the first time in 2 years. Ben Reitzes for UBS Investment Research expects Apple to sell over 1.3 million Macs next quarter and between 5.1 and 6.7 million units over the 2006-2007 fiscal year. A poll of Mac purchasers conducted by Apple shows that nearly 50% of buyers are “new to Mac”. This means more and more Windows users are switching to Mac. Furthermore, analyst Charles Wolfe of Needham & Company expects Apple to triple its share of the home computer market. With only a small collection of games available, the Mac gaming market is a void waiting to be filled.
http://www.transgaming.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&file=index&func=display&ceid=24

bruce89
August 8th, 2006, 01:48 PM
More stealing from WINE, but compiled for MacOS X.

bjweeks
August 8th, 2006, 01:52 PM
More stealing from WINE, but compiled for MacOS X.
Wine chose to use the LGPL license so it's not really stealing... Any ways Wine should have a OSX build sometime soon.

bruce89
August 8th, 2006, 01:54 PM
Wine chose to use the LGPL licence so it's not really stealing... Anyways Wine should have a OSX build sometime soon.

WINE started with a MIT licence actually, but then changed to LGPL after Transgaming started Cedega, without contributing back. Of course (AFAIK), derived works don't have to contribute back if it is licenced under LGPL/MIT.

bjweeks
August 8th, 2006, 01:57 PM
Transgaming can't really give back to Wine with out killing their business model.

bruce89
August 8th, 2006, 02:05 PM
Transgaming can't really give back to Wine with out killing their business model.

Of course, and they aren't legally complelled to either, so they don't.

They took code from WINE, modified it, and made lots of money out of (some of) other people's work.

BWF89
August 8th, 2006, 02:12 PM
Can we talk about the exciting new possibilities this has for Macintosh instead of argueing over licencing issues.

If you want to discuss Wine and Cedega licencing issues why don't you start a new thread or find an old one.

bjweeks
August 8th, 2006, 02:16 PM
Can we talk about the exciting new possibilities this has for Macintosh instead of argueing over licencing issues.

If you want to discuss Wine and Cedega licencing issues why don't you start a new thread or find an old one.

Uh, I think that was our point, "exciting new possibilities" is just wine/winelib for mac....

bruce89
August 8th, 2006, 02:18 PM
Uh, I think that was our point, "exciting new possibilities" is just wine/winelib for mac....

Anyway, this is a Linux forum.

TravisNewman
August 8th, 2006, 04:17 PM
Anyway, this is a Linux forum.
and this is the offtopic section. If we shouldn't talk about Mac's then we shouldn't talk about Vista, graphing calculators, the PSP vs the DS, etc.

DoctorMO
August 8th, 2006, 04:27 PM
I think the liencing is a very good point, every time they release a new product it will follow them like a bad smell. no one likes a cheat and while not breaking the rules of the game certainly broke the spirit of the thing. They have made enemys of decent developers and it will come back to haunt them.

I will never recomend this soiled product, I'd rather someone installed Windows and ditched Ubuntu.

Mathiasdm
August 8th, 2006, 04:40 PM
Transgaming can't really give back to Wine with out killing their business model.

Right, that must be why CrossOver Office doesn't make CodeWeavers any money.

Oh, wait... It does!

---
And just FYI: I have no problem with closed source software! However, just just seems... unethical. Not illegal, but unethical.

bjweeks
August 8th, 2006, 05:07 PM
Right, that must be why CrossOver Office doesn't make CodeWeavers any money.

Oh, wait... It does!

---
And just FYI: I have no problem with closed source software! However, just just seems... unethical. Not illegal, but unethical.


Please explain how if all the games that run on Cedega now run on Wine Transgaming would make any money? All they would have to stand on is DRM(no cd crack), Mozilla ActiveX extension(can get for free) and fonts(also free).

G Morgan
August 8th, 2006, 08:42 PM
WINE started with a MIT licence actually, but then changed to LGPL after Transgaming started Cedega, without contributing back. Of course (AFAIK), derived works don't have to contribute back if it is licenced under LGPL/MIT.

They'd have to contribute the LGPL'd code back with any modifications but won't have to contribute back linked code so the rest of their product will be 'safe' from being sourced. What will happen is over time more and more of the newer LGPL'd code will find its way into Cedega to the point where Cedega is no longer relevant.

However it is also the case that the more of Cedega's code base is being maintained by the WINE project the more time they have to spend on the closed bits. This is why we need to encourage people to switch to WINE as well as just improving WINE over it. Eventually there will be a point where 99% of the work is being done by the WINE project with the smallest amount making Cedega 'better' than vanilla WINE.

forrestcupp
August 8th, 2006, 10:16 PM
The cider thing kind of makes me mad, as a linux user. Mac users will get to play their games without paying extra because its not an end-user product. Linux users have to pay $5/month forever to play games that they already paid for because what we are provided is an end-user product.

May wine prosper and advance!

Polygon
August 9th, 2006, 12:40 AM
or we can just hope for more companies to make native linux games :D

so basically this thing is just like cedega only the companies bundles the windows version of their product with it and sell it, and it will magically work with mac? some how i dont think that this will work flawlessly.

%hMa@?b<C
August 9th, 2006, 01:43 AM
Why cant simultanous releases for Windows and Linux happen now? If this will work on Intel Macs, why not on Intel Linux?

bjweeks
August 9th, 2006, 07:16 AM
Why cant simultanous releases for Windows and Linux happen now? If this will work on Intel Macs, why not on Intel Linux?

You will be able to play the same games that work on cider in cedega. The game devs still have to make the game work with cider and cider = cedega so you just will have to pay if you want it on linux.

Erik Trybom
August 9th, 2006, 11:38 AM
I think this sounds great. I can understand that some people get angry because someone else is making money off their work, but apart from that, everything that narrows the gap between Windows, Macintosh and Linux is a good thing.

If the majority of game titles will be available for Mac, and by Cedega for Linux, one of the biggest reasons not to switch will go away. I think that every computer not running Windows is good for Linux, no matter if it's Mac, BSD or whatever. The important thing is to create more choices - for if there's a choice, people will often choose Linux.

That's a valid complaint about us Linux users having to pay though. If Mac users can have it for free, we should too.

bjweeks
August 9th, 2006, 12:01 PM
I think this sounds great. I can understand that some people get angry because someone else is making money off their work, but apart from that, everything that narrows the gap between Windows, Macintosh and Linux is a good thing.

If the majority of game titles will be available for Mac, and by Cedega for Linux, one of the biggest reasons not to switch will go away. I think that every computer not running Windows is good for Linux, no matter if it's Mac, BSD or whatever. The important thing is to create more choices - for if there's a choice, people will often choose Linux.

That's a valid complaint about us Linux users having to pay though. If Mac users can have it for free, we should too.

The whole "Gaming is the only reason I wont switch" is just an excuse. Most gamers truly don't care about Linux and have no reason to.

3rdalbum
August 9th, 2006, 12:01 PM
As far as I know, game developers can buy a license to redistribute Cedega with their games without the end-user having to pay a subscription. This is, in effect, the same as what Cider offers.

By the way, Cedega is $5 per month for subscription, but you can use the CVS version for free.

TravisNewman
August 9th, 2006, 03:50 PM
I think this sounds great. I can understand that some people get angry because someone else is making money off their work, but apart from that, everything that narrows the gap between Windows, Macintosh and Linux is a good thing.
Using Cedega and Cider, things like that, makes the gap between Windows Macintosh and Linux even bigger. Game developers don't have to worry about developing for other platforms, so we never get native big title games.