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blithen
September 4th, 2007, 06:34 AM
Can we please STOP accusing so an so of being just like windows? Really, every time that gets said a geek somewhere commits seppuku.

How about we stop geeks from writing extremely biased articles about how there distro is better then another. THEN and only then will I stop calling Distros windows. It's not PCLOS though. Considering that's one person opinion. That statement is more towards Slackware, considering a least more then one person thinks their distro owns all other. Like I said before, All distros achieve very well what they aim to do.

Chilli Bob
September 4th, 2007, 06:39 AM
For the writer of that article, here is a rule of thumb. If you want an OS that looks like Windows, and works like Windows, then damn well use Windows.

Spr0k3t
September 4th, 2007, 06:43 AM
All I want to add is that I'm sick of the inter-distro fighting (to put it nicely), where does it get us? PCLOS is a good distro, Ubuntu is a good distro, as are Debian, Fedora, DSL and at least 50 others. Linux distros show why collaboration is great, how working together and sharing much of the codebase has given people a choice when it comes to their operating system.

The PCLOS people have done themselves a disservice by allowing the article to be published, because it simply makes them look bad, even if it's a view only held by a few in their community. Distros are a case of 'horses for courses', what suits one person won't necessarily suit another. Different does not mean bad or worse. I thought that was the sort of lesson we were trying to teach those who are trying Linux as an alternative OS for the first time.

If Ubuntu's terminal use is a bad thing and 'noobs' can't handle it, then many of us in this forum must never have been 'noobs'.

It's time for everyone to get over themselves and realise that we're all working towards the same goal of providing an alternative computing world, free from vendor lock-in and hostile business practices. A computing world where we use computers for what we want to use them for.

/rant

bikeboy speaks with wisdom from beyond the grave. I'm not a fan of PCLOS, but it's still not Apple or Microsoft... and in that notion, it's a good thing.

hanzomon4
September 4th, 2007, 08:58 AM
How about we stop geeks from writing extremely biased articles about how there distro is better then another. THEN and only then will I stop calling Distros windows. It's not PCLOS though. Considering that's one person opinion. That statement is more towards Slackware, considering a least more then one person thinks their distro owns all other. Like I said before, All distros achieve very well what they aim to do.

Well then it looks as though we are locked in the warfare of the occasional all CAPS word.....

hehe....

regomodo
September 4th, 2007, 09:38 AM
You can't just dismiss something because it says something you don't want to hear. The truth is, he has a point. Ubuntu is slower than windows and other distros out of the box... and it doesn't run well with less than 1GB RAM.

that's not true. i've been testing gutsy gibbon an a P3 450 MHz with 320MB. Surprisingly good and feels faster than Feisty. Rarely do i get above 180MB used.

About the mag. A bit disheartened by the Windows XP Theme/Icons used but PCLOS is great for a XP convert. I would have gone with it if it wasn't for some hardware issues with my laptop.

orange2k
September 4th, 2007, 10:31 AM
What puzzles me, is the high ranking of PCLinuxos on Distrowatch. Other distro-popularity surveys have shown that its not that popular. And another thing Ive noticed is that their Forum is certainly NOT as popular as one might expect - right now there are some 19 users and 25 guests - and at the same time on the Ubuntu forum there are 468 members and 3628 guests...

SunnyRabbiera
September 4th, 2007, 10:38 AM
well for some PCLOS does outperform ubuntu, right now it does that for me until the next buntu comes out (gutsy is still alpha and is still looking better then the current fiesty for me in my opinion.)
but yeh this article makes us PCLinux users look bad... me I am neutral on the matter as I like both distros

bigbearomaha
September 4th, 2007, 12:56 PM
There is a thread on the PCLOS forums about the article and at least one pclos user is upset enough about the article and other rabid fanboy commenting that comes about (just like there are rabid fanboys here also ) that he is considering quitting PCLOS altogether over it.

There are many who agree in spirit the article is a bad move by the magazine and I am one of them.

PCLOS is as good a distro as any other and so is Ubuntu. I think most of the things that make pclos very good come from Mandriva. It has a lot of accessibility tools that just make it easier for users who want to use the machine, not spend all their time tweaking it.

Ubuntu which gets much of it's "stability" from debian to begin with inherited such good traits as well. some productivity tools would be nice, such as a good tool to find and mount NFS shares on a network.

anyway. The writer was just some guy trying to impress everyone else at pclos by mking it look like he knows what he is talking about and still be a rabid fanboy. NO distro needs rabid fanboys..

Big Bear

Wiebelhaus
September 4th, 2007, 01:22 PM
You can't just dismiss something because it says something you don't want to hear. The truth is, he has a point. Ubuntu is slower than windows and other distros out of the box... and it doesn't run well with less than 1GB RAM.

I agree. reported what his results were , you can't fault PCLOS for linking an article that strokes their phallic , If Ubuntu was praised in a mag while others were bashed it would be linked on the front page of this site and 5,000 forum sigs.

igknighted
September 4th, 2007, 01:41 PM
Wow, biggest thread of misinformation ever...

1) I have to say, this is the first time I have ever seen Ubuntu criticized for being "too hard". Every other distro bashes it for being "too dumbed down"...

2) If the roles were reversed as the above poster said, and someone posted an article where Ubuntu was accepted before PCLOS it would be very popular around here, don't deny it.

3) Ubuntu doesn't need 1gb RAM. 256 isn't quite enough, but 384mb should be fine. If you have >384mb ram and are having slowness issues, you have hardware compatability issues to look into.

4) I have to say, I agree with the article. Ubuntu ISN'T windows. We (and PCLOS is equally guilty) try to shove it on windows users as a replacement... it isn't. It is simply a different OS. If someone wants a different OS then Ubuntu is a great choice. It is easy to learn and very powerful. Same with PCLOS. But neither is windows. Neither is an alternative for someone who isn't willing to LEARN a new OS. As such, the goal should never be to make linux like windows, but rather to make it easy to learn LINUX. This is where the fanboys (not the distros themselves, mind you) always get it wrong.

Ozor Mox
September 4th, 2007, 01:48 PM
1) I have to say, this is the first time I have ever seen Ubuntu criticized for being "too hard". Every other distro bashes it for being "too dumbed down"...

Just goes to show you can't please all of the people all of the time!


4) I have to say, I agree with the article. Ubuntu ISN'T windows. We (and PCLOS is equally guilty) try to shove it on windows users as a replacement... it isn't. It is simply a different OS. If someone wants a different OS then Ubuntu is a great choice. It is easy to learn and very powerful. Same with PCLOS. But neither is windows. Neither is an alternative for someone who isn't willing to LEARN a new OS. As such, the goal should never be to make linux like windows, but rather to make it easy to learn LINUX. This is where the fanboys (not the distros themselves, mind you) always get it wrong.

I don't know, I agree with you to some extent about this, but overwhelmingly I've seen Ubuntu pushed as an alternative to Windows, not a replacement. In most of the threads I've seen where a new Ubuntu user has ranted on about how this doesn't work the way they expected and that was better on Windows, the general response is, in a non-aggressive way, Windows is probably a better choice for you.

igknighted
September 4th, 2007, 01:49 PM
I am citing the unwillingness of the FSF nuts to allow Ubuntu to distribute some items which would make it a lot more newbie friendly because of their philosophical rhetoric. And Shuttleworth seems to be so scared of them he bows to their rants

By "the FSF nuts" are you refering to the FSF themselves, or by the more zealous members of the Ubuntu community?

Ubuntu has kind of back themselves into a corner. On one hand, for them to be the best distro for their goal, they really need to include free software. On the other hand, they have explicitly stated from the start that they are a free software distro. This is something that Mark personally believes in. Its his money, he has every right to use it to support whatever philosophy he wants. It'll be interesting to see where they go with this.

igknighted
September 4th, 2007, 01:56 PM
I don't know, I agree with you to some extent about this, but overwhelmingly I've seen Ubuntu pushed as an alternative to Windows, not a replacement. In most of the threads I've seen where a new Ubuntu user has ranted on about how this doesn't work the way they expected and that was better on Windows, the general response is, in a non-aggressive way, Windows is probably a better choice for you.

But by and large, that attitude comes from this feeling that Ubuntu is like windows, but free. People do not come ready to learn a new OS. We do our best, but often the attitude isn't right. The problem is the press we get (from users) on sites like DIGG, where if you read it religiously you would swear the whole world used Ubuntu and it was the best OS ever. Same with word of mouth... people build up this expectation that is let down because linux is not windows, it is different, and after being told how easy it is, many are unwilling to learn.

Old Pink
September 4th, 2007, 02:39 PM
The guy's clearly 13 years old, you can tell from the writing style. PCLInuxOS has a crap name, tries to copy Microsoft Windows in many areas, isn't as well put together as Ubuntu, looks ugly by default, and has a "Donate" button on the desktop.

I mean, I'd use it if there was a choice between that and Windows, for example, I'm not strongly against any distribution, but in reality his view of Ubuntu is perverted.

SunnyRabbiera
September 4th, 2007, 03:10 PM
actually i think PClinux is put together quite good, just as good as Ubuntu, but opinions will vary.
so you know everyone I will be making a complaint post about the article on the PCLOS forum, really it makes the distro look bad.

MissionImpossible
September 4th, 2007, 03:33 PM
actually i think PClinux is put together quite good, just as good as Ubuntu, but opinions will vary.
.

PCLOS, IMO, is a Claytons distro (a distro when you are not having a distro), you are obviously a PCLOS Proselytism Missionary (your lot are dutifully all over the linux forums).

"...Limit of PCLOS as a wannabe-Top10 distro...."

[Taken from PCLOS Forum.....for fair use only]
Sr. Member
****
Re: Roadmap 2007
Reply #53 on: May 13, 2007
Although I agree, this is a lot to ask of the small team at PCLinuxOS
I'm not asking anything. I'm just commenting the first post of this thread,
where Tex himself announces updated ISOs for PCLOS 2007.
*
It's a small, tight-knit group

This is unfortunately also the big limit of PCLOS as a wannabe-Top10 distro.
Distrowatch numbers don't really count that much, PCLOS is still far from
the biggies and certainly not the #3 distro in the world.

No top distro stays 6 months without updates for its latest stable version.
No top distro lacks a 64-bits version. No big distro needs so much time to
fill its software repository. No big distro lacks so many server-oriented
packages in the repo. No big distro lacks some sort of system of security
advisories. No big distro stops making packages for the previous release
as soon as the newer release is out.

The single and only reason explaining all of these limitations is lack of
manpower.

[....]

----------------------

*Proselytism is the practice of attempting to convert people to another opinion, usually another religion.

MissionImpossible
September 4th, 2007, 03:43 PM
Some interesting backround info on PCLOS origins - enjoy! :-)


ocilent1
Administrator

Re: Fedora 7 (Moonshine)
Reply #23 on: June 05, 2007

Quote from: matereo on June 01, 2007
Perhaps PcLOS could be...better if it was Fedora rather than Mandriva based..."

"...We (us developers) were seriously considering re-basing to Fedora at the end of last year...However, due to the complexities of porting the Mandriva tools over to the new base, time constraints and a shortage of developers, we decided the best way to move forward was to simply fork the Mandriva core and build on it (again).

I gotta admit though, I am always still tempted by the thought of re-basing to Fedora..... If we could successfully merge Mandriva's "Drak" tools with Fedora, I believe it would be a very users friendly and solid distro.....

I have always liked the way Fedora develops and operates....Merging Mandirva's brilliant control center (IMO, the best in the business) and Fedora's base system would go a long way to making a great (stable) distro...."

http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=58


145 pclos (by Texstar on 2007-07-04 from United States)
I believe pastor ed was referring to the old code base when PCLinuxOS forked
from Mandrake 9.2 and over the past 3-4 years one rpm was updated from the other when possible and extra packages added that were unique to PCLinuxOS.

Last year we did a rebase against an updated Mandriva to get an updated code base to work from mainly gcc and glibc due to time and resource limitations [Basically admiting to failure to be a true fork - NOT a real distro!]. We haven't reached a point where we can hire people yet. I wanted to go to a Fedora base but others wanted to stay with a Mandriva base [as you can see above, "ocilent1" explains the real reason was lack of resources and NOT that "others wanted to stay with Mandriva"].... As time goes on the split between the two will be more profound than it is today. [until the next re-base is needed?:-)] DW Weekly Comments section


*Proselytism is the practice of attempting to convert people to another opinion, usually another religion [in our case to another distro, a half-baked one, imo!].

igknighted
September 4th, 2007, 03:46 PM
PCLOS, IMO, is a Claytons distro (a distro when you are not having a distro), you are obviously a PCLOS Proselytism Missionary (your lot are dutifully all over the linux forums

Woah... that was uncalled for. Sunny has been a very respected member of Ubuntuforums for quite some time (over 2 years longer than you, in fact). So please, do explain why you have the right to call sunny out for sticking up for his/her distro of choice, or else apologize.

RomeReactor
September 4th, 2007, 03:53 PM
It would--and does, actually--reflect poorly on a community to bash another based solely on the contents of a forum post. That forum post became an article on the PCLOS magazine, and while I don't know if it's officially sanctioned or not, that may not matter so much, seeing as their community appears to have adopted it pretty widely. Some posters in the thread mentioned by bigbearomaha seem to be of the opinion that the lack of immediately available codecs is somehow a terrible blunder on the part of Ubuntu's developers, and don't take into account the ideology behind such decisions. Then there's also the fact that the original poster was actually encouraged by another member of the forums--who appears to be an editor for the magazine--to submit the post as an article. In any case, the article was published. It may have benefited from less abrasive wording, but then again the decision to leave it as such was made by the magazine's editorial staff, not by their community as a whole. That many of the posters on the thread agreed with the contents is another matter, to the detriment of their community's image.

I'm sure we're not entirely exempt from a somewhat similar conduct ourselves (in general), but that is mainly due to a very small but vocal minority of posters here who decide to express their opinions of other distros--and other OSs--in a demeaning and sometimes rude way, usually resulting in getting admonished by other posters or perhaps even a moderator. There are posts like that around here somewhere...

I feel this post may be blatantly obvious and redundant, but just wanted to have my say.

Also, I agree with igknighted's post above.

MissionImpossible
September 4th, 2007, 04:00 PM
Woah... that was uncalled for. Sunny has been a very respected member of Ubuntuforums for quite some time (over 2 years longer than you, in fact). So please, do explain why you have the right to call sunny out for sticking up for his/her distro of choice, or else apologize.

Well, I am sorry if I made a wrong call, but I see him over at the PCLOS forums as a prominent PCLOS promoter. So thats how I drew my conclusion, but it was a random choice as I was just looking for a PCLOS supporter to tag my post onto.

Sorry Sunny!
:-)

Zootropo
September 4th, 2007, 04:01 PM
Is this an official magazine? Becaus its design looks so amateurish...

bigbearomaha
September 4th, 2007, 04:07 PM
I would like to reiterate here, what I said in the PCLOS forums. It's all about Linux. Ubuntu is Linux, PCLOS is also, Mandriva, RedHat and Debian are all Linux. as well as many others.

Ubuntu and all the others are only different presentations of Linux. you like this to be the default instead of that? provide these instead of those? it's all Linux. they all run the same apps and share the same kernel( perhaps a different version, but you know what I mean)

I support Linux and I like different presentations (Distros) for different reasons. I like Ubuntu, Mint, PCLOS, CentOS, Fedora and Debian. those are my main ones.

All of the distros have something that could be improved upon and all of the distros have something that is "better" and something"worse" than each of the others.
Depending on what user base or purpose they are trying to reach.

Linux is a wonderful thing and the sooner we all focus on that, the better Linux will be.

Big Bear

Anthem
September 4th, 2007, 04:11 PM
I am citing the unwillingness of the FSF nuts to allow Ubuntu to distribute some items which would make it a lot more newbie friendly because of their philosophical rhetoric. And Shuttleworth seems to be so scared of them he bows to their rants
You're misinformed.

It's not legal to distribute those codecs in many parts of the world, including America. Small distros don't worry about it because they're too little to get sued, but Ubuntu would get sued in a second.

It's not blind ideology, it's also practicality.

And it's not like I'm hugely pro-FSF, but Mark has made the right call with this.

igknighted
September 4th, 2007, 04:13 PM
I would like to reiterate here, what I said in the PCLOS forums. It's all about Linux. Ubuntu is Linux, PCLOS is also, Mandriva, RedHat and Debian are all Linux. as well as many others.

Ubuntu and all the others are only different presentations of Linux. you like this to be the default instead of that? provide these instead of those? it's all Linux. they all run the same apps and share the same kernel( perhaps a different version, but you know what I mean)

I support Linux and I like different presentations (Distros) for different reasons. I like Ubuntu, Mint, PCLOS, CentOS, Fedora and Debian. those are my main ones.

All of the distros have something that could be improved upon and all of the distros have something that is "better" and something"worse" than each of the others.
Depending on what user base or purpose they are trying to reach.

Linux is a wonderful thing and the sooner we all focus on that, the better Linux will be.

Big Bear



+1, I agree completely. And lets grow up too. Ubuntu users are as guilty as PCLOS users, and all are equally as guilty as Gentoo and Fedora users, each in their own way. Linux is linux. Lets support FOSS software (heck, even if it's BSD or Solaris), and let everyone improve in the process.

vexorian
September 4th, 2007, 04:14 PM
You can't just dismiss something because it says something you don't want to hear. The truth is, he has a point. Ubuntu is slower than windows and other distros out of the box... and it doesn't run well with less than 1GB RAM.
Nice "facts", although I got 768MB of RAM and ubuntu boots faster than windows.


What puzzles me, is the high ranking of PCLinuxos on Distrowatch. Other distro-popularity surveys have shown that its not that popular. And another thing Ive noticed is that their Forum is certainly NOT as popular as one might expect - right now there are some 19 users and 25 guests - and at the same time on the Ubuntu forum there are 468 members and 3628 guests..
I am guessing it is easy to game distrowatch.

jrusso2
September 4th, 2007, 04:19 PM
You're misinformed.

It's not legal to distribute those codecs in many parts of the world, including America. Small distros don't worry about it because they're too little to get sued, but Ubuntu would get sued in a second.

It's not blind ideology, it's also practicality.

And it's not like I'm hugely pro-FSF, but Mark has made the right call with this.

First of all Ubuntu is not an american distro. They have no obligation to follow american law.

Second of all adding things like the intel wireless firmware to the cdrom, the atheros firmware and the broadcom firmware is not illegal and would make it easier to use.

vexorian
September 4th, 2007, 04:26 PM
First of all Ubuntu is not an american distro. They have no obligation to follow american law.

Second of all adding things like the intel wireless firmware to the cdrom, the atheros firmware and the broadcom firmware is not illegal and would make it easier to use.
I don't want your propietary codecs and drivers by default.

Not like the restricter manager didn't exist, installing all that stuff is a click away... don't make such a drama about it.

Including them by default is not exactly the philosopher's stone, it is not new at all, there were distros doing so ages ago, so if it is PLOS' only merit I am going to have to yawn.

RomeReactor
September 4th, 2007, 04:32 PM
First of all Ubuntu is not an american distro. They have no obligation to follow american law.

Second of all adding things like the intel wireless firmware to the cdrom, the atheros firmware and the broadcom firmware is not illegal and would make it easier to use.

Yes, Ubuntu is not an American distro, but American users have to follow American law. Ubuntu takes into account its intended users' rights: the legality of certain codecs and libraries is cloudy at best in the US and other countries, so by adding them to the CD they would be effectively putting some of their intended users in trouble. So they thought of everyone while making that decision.

dca
September 4th, 2007, 04:36 PM
Yes, Ubuntu is not an American distro, but American users have to follow American law. Ubuntu takes into account its intended users' rights: the legality of certain codecs and libraries is cloudy at best in the US and other countries, so by adding them to the CD they would be effectively putting some of their intended users in trouble. So they thought of everyone while making that decision.

Exactly, it's not that it's cloudy, it's downright illegal because nobody pays the license fee(s) req'd to read/play an MP3 or whatever file... As the billion dollar lawsuit from Alcatel against MS proved...

vexorian
September 4th, 2007, 04:36 PM
has a "Donate" button on the desktop. aw god, was giving it the benefit of doubt, but now, please don't bring the PCLinuxOS topic to me ever again. /unsubscribes from thread

igknighted
September 4th, 2007, 04:38 PM
First of all Ubuntu is not an american distro. They have no obligation to follow american law.

Second of all adding things like the intel wireless firmware to the cdrom, the atheros firmware and the broadcom firmware is not illegal and would make it easier to use.

Ubuntu is linux for every human being. What kind of message would they be sending if they distributed software that was illegal in many countries?

Oh yeah, and all the atheros stuff IS included (all my atheros wifi cards work OOTB at least...)

igknighted
September 4th, 2007, 04:41 PM
Exactly, it's not that it's cloudy, it's downright illegal because nobody pays the license fee(s) req'd to read/play an MP3 or whatever file... As the billion dollar lawsuit from Alcatel against MS proved...

MP3 actually could be legally distributed (either with fluendo codecs for gstreamer or realplayer... which isn't foss, but canonical could get permission to distribute if they wanted to). Beyond that, Ubuntu would have to pay for the codecs to distribute them.

I think by and large (especially with mp3), it is a choice not to support a proprietary codec (even if the decoder is free, legal and foss).

mocoloco
September 4th, 2007, 04:58 PM
I agree with many others who've posted that PCLOS is a great distro. Back in the Hoary era I had a hard time getting everything working with Ubuntu, so I moved to PCLOS and loved it. It was my "main" distro for a while, but I kept trying several.
One reason I eventually started to shift away was it had the feel of a "one-man-show". Now there are many great projects that have the small time informal feel, but to me they seem to be small potatoes trying to look big, instead of just kicking back and being what they are.
Maybe that didn't make sense and obviously it's just my opinion. As Ubuntu matured I found it fits my needs. There's also more software that I use available in the repos.
This magazine is just another example of what to me is an "ameturish" presentation of an otherwise great distro.

jrusso2
September 4th, 2007, 05:13 PM
I thought the magazine was pretty good for a free magazine. There are a lot of useful tips in it.

Anyways I am not the one running Ubuntu but there are lots of ways that it could be made more newbie friendly.

And they will continue to lose new users to things like PCLinuxOS and Linux Mint who give the new users what they want. Even Freespire could do well if they were able to get decent developers.

mikewhatever
September 4th, 2007, 05:20 PM
First of all Ubuntu is not an american distro. They have no obligation to follow american law.

Second of all adding things like the intel wireless firmware to the cdrom, the atheros firmware and the broadcom firmware is not illegal and would make it easier to use.

Not sure when was the last time you checked on Ubuntu, but Intel wireless firmware is included in Feisty. I happen to use it daily.

As for the PCLOS magazine article, it seems, in order to like something, quite a few people must dislike something else. Usually, Windows and MS get under fire, so it's beyond my understanding how Ubuntu is to blame, but there are threads frankly bashing Ubuntu on PCLOS forums.

TheOtherLinuxFreak
September 4th, 2007, 07:55 PM
Nonsense, I have it running on 512MB and integrated graphics with Beryl, no slowdowns at all.

same here except for compiz fusion

plb
September 4th, 2007, 08:05 PM
"dissing" other distros is pretty common..what's the problem? lol. Seriously though, never heard of distrowars? How about the great KDE vs GNOME debate which the linux founder has partaken in from time to time lol or the vi vs emacs...so many to choose from.

igknighted
September 4th, 2007, 09:31 PM
"dissing" other distros is pretty common..what's the problem? lol. Seriously though, never heard of distrowars? How about the great KDE vs GNOME debate which the linux founder has partaken in from time to time lol or the vi vs emacs...so many to choose from.

Just because they happen doesn't mean shouldn't strive to avoid them. Not much good comes of that infighting. Plus, the more and more widespread linux becomes, these flamewars and developer spats that were merely geek rivalries will have real-world effects on billion dollar businesses and home users everywhere. Look at the mess Beryl/Compiz turned into. We are passed the time where we can act childishly, now we need some solidarity.

Blondie
September 4th, 2007, 09:56 PM
The article is pretty daft, especially the 1GB comment, though I consider PCLinuxOS to be one of the distros Ubuntu could learn some things from - for example my five button mouse works "out of the box" on PCLinuxOS. Some other newbie friendly things relate to the fact that, like Linux Mint, it doesn't hold back on the proprietary stuff. Saying that PCLinuxOS is more newbie friendly than Ubuntu is a defensible position, but that article was crap.

Anthem
September 4th, 2007, 11:22 PM
Anyways I am not the one running Ubuntu
Then why are you here? To complain about a distro you don't use and don't know much about?

devnet
September 4th, 2007, 11:22 PM
Could not dissagree more! But, it is true that Ubuntu has no need to be on top of those too-easily manipulated DW rankings. Especially given the fact that Ubuntu has a fairly large foundation backing it along with Canonical. PCLos cannot match Ubuntu support no matter what it does, and this will always be its thorn in the side that will drag it down. Additionally, PCLos really is nothing more than an over glorified Mandriva with some small modifications. This is nothing more than a testament to how good Mandriva is really. IMO, Texstar should just join the Mandriva project if they offer him a spot and merge the two projects. Ubuntu also follows a similar track with Debian and probably would serve the Linux community much better if it merged with the Debian project, assuming they were to become receptive to the changes the Ubuntu project represents. The undisputable fact is that neither PCLos nor Ubuntu are better than their parent projects.

Don't go around spreading lies and false statements unless you have proof to back them up. PCLinuxOS is not Mandriva with small alterations anymore than Ubuntu is straight Debian with alterations.

In case any of you were wondering, I am a PCLinuxOS developer...and I despise people telling lies about any Linux distro out there. If you're going to state your opinion, do so...but don't act as though what you're saying is the absolute truth of a matter...these threads are searchable and can be found by many Linux converts out there...act accordingly.

For those that can't get past the Mandriva PCLinuxOS thing, I thought I had blogged about this and it had garnered enough attention...I guess not. http://linux-blog.org/index.php?/archives/220-Laying-to-Rest-the-MandrivaPCLOS-Debate.html

ryno519
September 4th, 2007, 11:24 PM
First off...you're a moron.

Take note, ladies and gentlemen. If you don't want to be taken seriously or have your posts read, start them off with this sentence. An important lesson on how not to represent your side of an argument.

WishingWell
September 4th, 2007, 11:30 PM
Ubuntu will pass PCLos when Gutsy is released, this is not the first time it's been passed on DistroWatch and it won't be the last either.

The rankings are just ridiculous, i could make a script and spread it which would make FreeBSD pass all Linux distributions in a month or so.

devnet
September 4th, 2007, 11:35 PM
Take note, ladies and gentlemen. If you don't want to be taken seriously or have your posts read, start them off with this sentence. An important lesson on how not to represent your side of an argument.
I think moron is appropriate for someone making statements without researching facts. After all, a person with a mental capacity greater than 12 wouldn't make statements without some truth in them...but here we are.

Rip apart what I said with whatever gusto you want to...tell me I'm also a moron for calling someone a moron...but nothing chaps my hide more than seeing someone say something about a Linux distro that isn't true. I've defended countless distros out there when people have the audacity to do so, Ubuntu included.

jrusso2
September 5th, 2007, 12:02 AM
Then why are you here? To complain about a distro you don't use and don't know much about?

I do use Ubuntu, I am not the one running it though. I also use Debian and PCLinuxOS, Freespire 1. and 2. and Linux Mint.

I am advocating for ease of use for new users. I have been using Linux for 11 years and I have used most of them at one time or another.

But since Ubuntu wants to claim to be for new users, then I think they should do a better job in the ease of use department. And I would be most happy to show them how if they were willing which I don't think they are.

the_darkside_986
September 5th, 2007, 12:06 AM
I read some of the magazine, and it is very silly. I mean, it insults Ubuntu because it supposedly requires use of the commandline and then later there is an article about how to edit your fstab file... that is irony.

greymongrey
September 5th, 2007, 12:07 AM
It is never appropriate to call someone a moron. It is called flaming and it is a no no in internet protocol. It will get you tossed from many internet forums, and rightly so.

fdhdghdg
September 5th, 2007, 12:39 AM
So both PCLinuxOS and Ubuntu have evangelistic users that likes to read (and what not to) Distrowatch statistics. I'm not even going to try to understand it.

Discrediting Ubuntu in a PCLinuxOS magazine (other thread) published by the same evangelistic users doesn't really make PCLinuxOS shine either. But it makes sense as far as the readers are concerned.

Then again if you can put the words "radically simple" on the official bootsplash just to **** people off then you must be capable of almost anything.

mikewhatever
September 5th, 2007, 12:42 AM
What!? No GUI editor for fstab in PCLOS? What's a new user supposed to do?

ThinkBuntu
September 5th, 2007, 12:54 AM
I don't care if Mac users start sacrificing humans, I will continue to use it as a superior OS. If I were a Zenwalk user, which I was for a while (and am considering dual-booting once I upgrade my HD from 60GB in this Mac), it would be the same. A bunch of fools have really nothing to do with what tool I choose to use for work.

For instance, people get killed with claw hammers, but I still use claw hammers to hammer nails.

So, in short, unless the PCLOS user mentioned earlier (who wants to quit because of "fanboyism") finds the community of users to be integral to an OS' worth, he's being silly in my opinion. Software is still just a tool.

LaRoza
September 5th, 2007, 12:57 AM
Software is still just a tool.

True.

gumjo
September 5th, 2007, 01:18 AM
I tried PCLinuxOS, and I really liked the Control Centre it had to offer. Let's not forget it has many features that Ubuntu/Kubuntu is still lacking and is adding (such as GUI for monitor resolutions), and it's a better distro out-of-the-box (with Mplayer pre-installed and the essential codecs already installed). That said, it's no Ubuntu. It didn't detect my wireless connection even though every Linux distro I have tried did it automatically. That and the repositories are very outdated, and the fact that I have to pay for the latest version repo means I'll never be trying it again (same reason I'm not going to try Mandriva). For the record, the Distrowatch rankings are NOT an indication of the distros usage. It's simply a popularity chart, and even that which the developers themselves claim is not very accurate. Whenever a new version is released or is nearing release, a distro gains in clicks and popularity. It's nothing more than that, a click counter.

mikewhatever
September 5th, 2007, 01:21 AM
Here's what the DistroWatch Weekly publisher has to say about the Hit Ranking

Granted, the DistroWatch Page Hit Ranking doesn't mean all that much and we have been saying this for years.
quoted from http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070827

In my understanding, the only thing that thing is there for is to spark vain curiosity and boost the site's traffic. It's a pity, linux users pay attention to such a trifle, no matter which distro is on top.
I've tried pclinux a few months ago, running from the live cd, and was quite pleased. It gave an impression of a solid, good looking distro, and I wish it all the best development wise, no matter what its number on distrowatch is.

greymongrey
September 5th, 2007, 02:22 AM
The PCLOS people have done themselves a disservice by allowing the article to be published, because it simply makes them look bad, even if it's a view only held by a few in their community.


I wish it was a few. I love PCLOS and I dual boot it and Ubuntu, but I can't stand the attitudes in their forums. Which one is better, for you boils down to a matter of preference. Some days I use one, some other days the other. I love the Gnome desktop but prefer the KDE apps.

But dissing each other does nothing but help the Evil Empire.

JAPrufrock
September 5th, 2007, 02:24 AM
dunno, checked out their web site and it doesn't look like they offer a 64bit os. For me using a 32 bit os would be like going backwards.

mikewhatever
September 5th, 2007, 02:40 AM
I wish it was a few. I love PCLOS and I dual boot it and Ubuntu, but I can't stand the attitudes in their forums. Which one is better, for you boils down to a matter of preference. Some days I use one, some other days the other. I love the Gnome desktop but prefer the KDE apps.

But dissing each other does nothing but help the Evil Empire.

Ah, music to my ears, thank you. I truly hope a sensible attitude will prevail on pclinux forums, because, hopefully, most members are there for support and sharing and care next to none about bashing. Some evidence for it is there too http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=28540.45

sloggerkhan
September 5th, 2007, 02:55 AM
Looking through that 'magazine' makes me feel sorry for them. In many ways it doesn't really do a good job of reflecting and portraying their community in a positive way.

aktiwers
September 5th, 2007, 04:18 AM
Im with you devnet. I only heard good about PCLinuxOS and the only reason I havent installed it yet is because of lag of time.

As long as the OS is free and opensource, this kind of news are always good! :)

MissionImpossible
September 5th, 2007, 09:37 AM
Don't go around spreading lies and false statements unless you have proof to back them up. PCLinuxOS is not Mandriva with small alterations anymore than Ubuntu is straight Debian with alterations.

In case any of you were wondering, I am a PCLinuxOS developer...and I despise people telling lies about any Linux distro out there. If you're going to state your opinion, do so...but don't act as though what you're saying is the absolute truth of a matter...these threads are searchable and can be found by many Linux converts out there...act accordingly.

For those that can't get past the Mandriva PCLinuxOS thing, I thought I had blogged about this and it had garnered enough attention...I guess not. http://linux-blog.org/index.php?/archives/220-Laying-to-Rest-the-MandrivaPCLOS-Debate.html

IMO, a good read of the DW Weekly (edition 31, July 2007) comments section would clarify things much better than your blog does. Look especially for comments by Adam Willamson!

Here are a couple of excerpts from that edition (107 is excerpted for its humorous aspect):

107 • stop it (by pclos user on 2007-07-03 from Netherlands)
i am a proud PCLinuxOS user since a long time. why can't people let us alone?
nobody is interested in this source and credits and sharing stuff. the makers of our wonderful distro are cool people who are proud to call themselves the ripper gang!!! and they don't care about gpl and codecs and patents because it just works. thats why we are the best distro out there, and we are number one here on distrowatch.
:-)

139 • SRPMS (by Texstar on 2007-07-04 from United States)
Changelogs were stripped to save space. Nothing more than that. No bad intentions, no malice towards anyone and not trying to hide anything...We are proud to say PCLinuxOS comes from a Mandriva base...

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070702&mode=31

daverich
September 5th, 2007, 11:01 AM
i wanted to try pclinuxos, but it wouldn't even complete the installation process.

again a linux distro is thwarted by hardware problems :(

kind regards

Dave Rich

daverich
September 5th, 2007, 11:28 AM
also just read up the latest magazine they put out where they state that ubuntu requires users to use the terminal to set it up properly.

I reckon that depends on your hardware, i wouldn't say ubuntu *requires* it as such, i've not touched it on this install (apart from running compiz/metacity)

Kind regards

Dave Rich

rh1zome
September 5th, 2007, 12:06 PM
Just want to chime in with a few points.

First, the required blurb about (GNU/)Linux being one particular implementation of the idea of software freedom. Should't the real issue be the extent to which your distro is striving to give you that freedom, and not whether under the current release of PCLinbuntuHatDriva it takes an extra five minutes to locate the required codec for Toy Story 7, or whatever?

DistroWatch is fun, but it's predominantly an English language web site (try selecting one of the translation languages - not much content is available translated!), and so is unable to accurately reflect the interests of speakers of Portuguese, Chinese, Hindi, Urdu, and the many, many other language communities that in total contain literally millions of users of Linux.

It's clear that Canonical spreads its resources over not only tailored versions of the main package (Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu, etc) but more importantly, over a huge number of different language communities, many containing hundreds of thousands of Linux users (India, Brazil, etc). At the risk of sounding sycophantic, I think Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical are doing a fantastic job of pushing Linux out to *all* language communities, and in doing so are remaining very close to the spirit of what free software is all about. Frankly speaking, how many distributions have made concerted efforts to promote Linux among speakers of African languages, for example? Or how many are spending resources in tailoring Linux editions for educational use?

We need to keep in mind the full spread of the Ubuntu project. Ubuntu has taken some inevitable flack from members of the free software 'sneering classes' for its promotion of an ideal as much as for being a particular piece of software, but in my view it's important to bear in mind that this is a key aim of the project. It's not just about a particular operating system based on a particular kernel. I'm looking forward to the day when I have free-as-in-speech BIOS code, and a free-as-in-speech graphics chipset, etc. Of all the distros/communities out there today, which ones are most likely to deliver that? Personally, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ubuntu's colourful logo is one day emblazoned on my motherboard components, or my mobile phone, or my compost-powered, two-seater hover vehicle, or... you get the point I'm sure.

As Ubuntu (the project) casts its net increasingly wide, it will face the challenges that all large projects and communities face, those of cohesion, of a large number of fickle users, of resources, of direction, and so on. In my view, Ubuntu as a broadly distributed project, as a community and as an ideal, is doing fantastically well and is using its resources to very noble ends. It needs and deserves our help and our support.

I wish PCLinuxOS the very best. A lot of users are clearly very impressed with the distro. That's great. I use Ubuntu not because I think the software is inherently better than that of other distros (I know too little about other distros to make that judgement) but because I like what the project stands for and what it is striving to achieve. Those guiding the project are making concerted attempts to take Linux to the masses, in *all* languages -- and instead of merely paying lip-service to 'inclusiveness', are putting their money where their mouths are and really are helping to make Linux (and free software) available to all.

Apologies for the rather long post!

izanbardprince
September 6th, 2007, 01:22 AM
I think that Ubuntu has some of the most helpful forums. If I had to rank,

Gentoo
Arch
Debian
Ubuntu
Zenwalk


Gentoo is falling apart over internal politics, Portage is silly.

Haven't tried Arch.

Debian is great, if you want to download 23 CD's so that you have all the system install packages locally, and don't mind spending time choosing packages, or getting slapped with a default setup thats way too huge.

Haven't tried Zenwalk.

Matthew Wiebelhaus
September 6th, 2007, 01:35 AM
I wold have chose it and in fact I will if they gutsy dosent work with ipw3945
the other thing was I like gnome and they didnt have a very good package system

maybeway36
September 6th, 2007, 02:19 AM
Gentoo is falling apart over internal politics, Portage is silly.

Haven't tried Arch.

Debian is great, if you want to download 23 CD's so that you have all the system install packages locally, and don't mind spending time choosing packages, or getting slapped with a default setup thats way too huge.

Haven't tried Zenwalk.

Or you could use the netinst CD and install a system with almost nothing, then apt-get install gnome-core or apt-get install kde-core

Macintosh Sauce
September 6th, 2007, 06:39 AM
this is just complete non-sense , PCLOS is the best KDE Distro out , Period.

Any success or recognition those folks get is well deserved.

Exactly, because Texstar and the Ripper Gang have done a fantastic job with PCLinuxOS 2007. It is easy on the eyes graphically, and also quite up to date IMO.

xat_
September 7th, 2007, 01:03 AM
Oh, would you look at that.

Linux is winning.

;)

SunnyRabbiera
September 7th, 2007, 01:22 AM
Well, I am sorry if I made a wrong call, but I see him over at the PCLOS forums as a prominent PCLOS promoter. So thats how I drew my conclusion, but it was a random choice as I was just looking for a PCLOS supporter to tag my post onto.

Sorry Sunny!
:-)

I am a girl

and yes I am a PCLOS supporter but I am also a Ubuntu supporter...
at least you apologized as I dont appreciate way you tried to burn me out...
but apology accepted.

inigmatus
September 7th, 2007, 10:04 PM
PCLinuxOS has remained on my system longer than any other distro, including Mint (which I fell in love with before Feisty came out).

PCLinuxOS is blue. Ubuntu is Brown.

Really that's the first reason I choose PCLoS over Ubuntu. I choose Mint over Ubuntu for this reason too, but I kept PCLinuxOS over Mint because of something very crucial: My next step was to find a reason not to keep PCLinuxOS.

But I couldn't. I still haven't!

My Radeon 9600 Pro 128MB ATI card worked with the pre-installed Beryl out of the box, along with GoogleEarth 3d rendering. Ubuntu couldn't do this, neither could Mint.

All the necessary codecs, and other things just worked. I haven't had to configure anything in PCLoS for the stuff I was using. I love the GNOME look and feel, but hate the interface. KDE's functionality and greater program list is what had me looking for the best KDE distro, and after trying so many other distros, I have found that it is undoubtedly PCLinuxOS that is the best KDE experience.

Besides, PCLinuxOS is blue. Ubuntu is brown. Blue makes an OS feel cool, crisp, new, fresh, up to date, futuristic, complex. Brown makes an OS feel baked, mellow, dry, stale, muddy, old, basic.

Yes I know how to change fonts, icons, themes, etc. But out of the box, PCLinuxOS didn't need any changing for my tastes in look and feel - and that is important in this tightly competitive market for new Linux users who experience the same.

pluviosity
September 7th, 2007, 10:36 PM
PCLinuxOS is blue. Ubuntu is Brown.

Really that's the first reason I choose PCLoS over Ubuntu.

...

Besides, PCLinuxOS is blue. Ubuntu is brown. Blue makes an OS feel cool, crisp, new, fresh, up to date, futuristic, complex. Brown makes an OS feel baked, mellow, dry, stale, muddy, old, basic.


Not to upset anyone, but the old saying "Beauty is only skin deep" comes to mind.

I have little experience with PCLinuxOS, but honestly, does the fact that it is blue make it THAT much better? I mean, if blue were the color that brings out the best in a computer, there would be no Blue Screen of Death! And I, for one, have yet to experience a Brown Screen of Death. :popcorn:

ThinkBuntu
September 7th, 2007, 11:17 PM
For the sake of argument:

Brown makes an OS feel natural, organic, human, simple, robust, rich, and warm.

danny joe ritchie
September 7th, 2007, 11:43 PM
I'm happy for PCLinuxOS and their recent rise to the top on Distrowatch,they have a nice system and I hope that they do well with it in the future!
I've purchased a couple of their cd's and they have a lot going for them,but I think that I will stick with Ubuntu or Debian for a while !
Don't get me wrong , I like PCLinuxOS ,OpenSuse and many others out there ,but right now only debian based distro's have a package management system that's even close too being easy for ( windows converts) newbies.
I don't care too much about color as long as I have a clean desktop that is easy to use, lets not knock Ubuntu for being brown
because we all know that the color can be changed if you don't like
it the way it is!
I wish the best for linux as a whole, good luck!

inigmatus
September 7th, 2007, 11:44 PM
Not to upset anyone, but the old saying "Beauty is only skin deep" comes to mind.

I have little experience with PCLinuxOS, but honestly, does the fact that it is blue make it THAT much better? I mean, if blue were the color that brings out the best in a computer, there would be no Blue Screen of Death! And I, for one, have yet to experience a Brown Screen of Death. :popcorn:

No, but it was the reason I tried PCLinuxOS. What was make or break was my attempt to find a reason to dump PCLinuxOS after the fact. So far I haven't found a reason to dislike it.

So yes, I choose the lady based on looks, and kept her as she hasn't disappointed me in her quality. That's the point I was making. Personally I don't like Mandriva, and prefer Debian, but for now it's winning the "usability out of the box" contest.

If only Ubuntu could fix up her default looks, and if Mint could do the same, they might be even more popular than ever.

Yet I seem to be hooked on KDE's intuitive interface. If only KDE and GNOME would consider a merge of talent...

executor
September 7th, 2007, 11:47 PM
Oh, would you look at that.

Linux is winning.

;)

+1

nonewmsgs
September 8th, 2007, 12:07 AM
i wanted to congradulate pclinux too. maybe ill even give it a try next weekend.

and for the fellow on the second page who said that he wanted ubuntu but went to pclos as well as other pclinux users, i dont fault you for having a sister distro, and im proud to have you as my linux brothers and sisters.

nonewmsgs
September 8th, 2007, 12:10 AM
one other thing, i prefer the blue to the brown too, but i have changed the wallpaper. :KS

kirios
September 8th, 2007, 07:51 AM
http://www.google.com/trends?q=pclinuxos%2C+ubuntu

No further comments.
Tried several variations of "PCLinuxOS" with the same result on Google Trends :-)
http://www.google.com/trends?q=pclinuxos%2C+pclinux%2C+pc+linux%2C+pc+li nux+os%2C+ubuntu&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

To quote from the Distrowatch feature again:
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070827#feature

No matter which indicator we take for the most representative, one thing is clear - Ubuntu is the top desktop Linux distribution at the moment. Beyond that assertion, it's anybody's guess;
No further comments!

rh1zome
September 8th, 2007, 11:52 AM
For the sake of argument:

Brown makes an OS feel natural, organic, human, simple, robust, rich, and warm.

I'll second that! :)

Npl
September 8th, 2007, 04:16 PM
Hmm, never heard of PCLinuxOS, DLing as Im posting this.

From a quick glance I already see 2 things:
1) its based on KDE - and that means Qt. I consider Qt being more performant and generally more "professional" looking than GTK+. (and, one of my most-used apps, Opera being based on Qt is another plus)
2) only x86-binaries - big thumbs down from me. I`ll eventually buy a PS3, so I`d prefer to have the same distro there.

Old Pink
September 8th, 2007, 04:48 PM
Windows XP is older, less feature packed and less capable than Ubuntu, it has every right to boot faster, not that, in my experience, it does.

If you put 95 and XP on a 1GB, 1Ghz, 100GB computer (for example) you know 95 will boot quicker. Just because there's less technology to boot.

XP may beat Ubuntu to the desktop in some strange cases, although it doesn't, and even if it does, you can't word process, instant message, photo manipulate or do an awful lot without extra software. If you were to bring XP up to date with Ubuntu, and pack it full of similar software, you know it'd boot slower.

Vadi
September 8th, 2007, 06:34 PM
You can't just dismiss something because it says something you don't want to hear. The truth is, he has a point. Ubuntu is slower than windows and other distros out of the box... and it doesn't run well with less than 1GB RAM.

I'm sorry, but I'm running Fiesty here on a 512MB machine, with Compiz and all it's shiny effects, on an ATI Radeon 7500 (32mb ram) just fine.

nanog
September 8th, 2007, 11:24 PM
Its really ironic that I had gone to the main web site to download an iso and give it a try. The thing that is shocking to me is that this fanboi tripe was approved for posting on their main web site. Its also interesting that their founder Texstar exhorted his followers to go on the offensive against Ubuntu in response to a negative review of PCLOS:

Textstar's call for jihad (http://www.thepcspy.com/blog/pclinuxoss_militant_leadership)

What a bizarre one-sided distrowar.

Makes one wonder whether there is truth to the rumours that PCLOS evangelists are artificially inflating distrowatch rankings.

starcraft.man
September 8th, 2007, 11:53 PM
Its really ironic that I had gone to the main web site to download an iso and give it a try. The thing that is shocking to me is that this fanboi tripe was approved for posting on their main web site. Its also interesting that their founder Texstar exhorted his followers to go on the offensive against Ubuntu in response to a negative review of PCLOS:

Textstar's call for jihad (http://www.thepcspy.com/blog/pclinuxoss_militant_leadership)

What a bizarre one-sided distrowar.

Makes one wonder whether there is truth to the rumours that PCLOS evangelists are artificially inflating distrowatch rankings.

That is ridiculous. I would have hoped the leader behave a bit more calmly. Certainly not calling for "hammering" their blogs and banning the reviewer from IRC. That story (and pic) certainly seem to put the publication of the article in their mag into some perspective.

To be blunt, that doesn't seem to be a community I would want to be a part of. I don't even know if I wanna recommend that distro now.

Side note: I think it's been well established the distrowatch rankings are rather useless when it comes to real life. Far more scientific surveys have been proven completely devoid of merit.

bigbearomaha
September 9th, 2007, 12:09 AM
First off, that blog and post is way old. Why dredge things up if they have been settled. If you read the comments there, both Tex and the blogger have "made up" if it's good enough for them, then what's it to the rest of us?

I am surprised to see this thread still active. one would think it would be old news by now.

Big Bear

nanog
September 9th, 2007, 12:46 AM
bigbearomaha, could you please supply a link that this was amicably settled. apologies, but one can't be too trusting on the "internets".

Still, I think it is relevant to the distro-bashing that is at least tacitly approved by this distro. After all, the e-magazine is prominently featured on the front page of their official web site.

lisati
September 9th, 2007, 12:57 AM
"PClinuxOS 2007 is my all-time favorite and I wanted my people to test it and give me some positive feedback."


Aaaargh! Fishing for POSITIVE feedback!:confused:

danny joe ritchie
September 9th, 2007, 02:07 AM
I think that the Ubuntu and Debian folks might want to get used to this kind of stuff!
There are a lot of good distro's out there, but most of them will never be accepted by the average pc user!
The average windows user will laugh at the thought of dealing with rpm
files or Yum repositories!
90% of the people out there do not have the time to learn something completely new,I know that I don't.
If PCLos wants to blow their horn, let them blow 'till they're blue in the face, I'm not very impressed!
If they want to attract windows users they need to get up to speed, how about a package manager that is easy to use ?
How about a hardware manager like Yast?
I like PCLos,Suse and Fedora, but I really don't see where anybody has room to diss Ubuntu or Debian, from where I stand some of them need to shut up and listen if they want to be taken seriously!

bigbearomaha
September 9th, 2007, 02:13 AM
bigbearomaha, could you please supply a link that this was amicably settled. apologies, but one can't be too trusting on the "internets".

Still, I think it is relevant to the distro-bashing that is at least tacitly approved by this distro. After all, the e-magazine is prominently featured on the front page of their official web site.



Its really ironic that I had gone to the main web site to download an iso and give it a try. The thing that is shocking to me is that this fanboi tripe was approved for posting on their main web site. Its also interesting that their founder Texstar exhorted his followers to go on the offensive against Ubuntu in response to a negative review of PCLOS:

Textstar's call for jihad (http://www.thepcspy.com/blog/pclinuxoss_militant_leadership)

What a bizarre one-sided distrowar.

Makes one wonder whether there is truth to the rumours that PCLOS evangelists are artificially inflating distrowatch rankings.

in the link that was referred to, if you follow the comments, they ( Tex and the blogger ) settled it amongst themselves.

Big Bear

nanog
September 9th, 2007, 02:24 AM
OK I waded through those posts...I feel dirty.


Oli posted:
This page is a protest against people who think power comes without a measure of responsibility or accountability. There are ways to handle things and this highlights the worst.

This isn't aimed at anybody specifically... Texstar has apologised through an anonymous comment and that's where we're at.

Sorry but this does not sound settled to me.

If the leader of PClos want to be taken seriously he should behave responsibly. IMO, pulling the ubuntu-bashing article and publically apologizing for his inflammatory language would be a good start. Linux is way too much of an underdog for this kind of internecine poop.

bigbearomaha
September 9th, 2007, 02:36 AM
Sorry but this does not sound settled to me.

If the leader of PClos want to be taken seriously he should behave responsibly. IMO, pulling the ubuntu-bashing article and publically apologizing for his inflammatory language would be a good start. Linux is way too much of an underdog for this kind of internecine poop.

It's not my place to "cover for Tex or any distro, I look at it all as Linux.

But to say that it isn't in the best interest of Linux to carry this on, why then still make an issue of it. there is no such thing as a perfect distro, all Linux distros have areas that can be improved on. as I said earlier.
perhaps the best thing we can do is let trivial things like these go away, the more attention we give them, the more things like this people will commit, merely to get the attention. and to take my own advice, I end my participation in this particular thread.


If anyone would be interested in discussing "distro ethics" in general, It hink as long as it remained a rational conversation, I would be interested.

Big Bear

nanog
September 9th, 2007, 02:51 AM
I think there are pretty well-established norms when it comes to distro ethics.

Although "Do not use a proprietary kernel" is arguably commandment #1
I suspect that, "Do not bash linux distros" would be in most people's top 10.

A few moments with google and this just gets uglier:

Check this out:

Irate user quits PClos and keeps snapshot of thread (http://xenh12-linuxcity.blogspot.com/2007/09/bad-smell-of-censorship-part-1.html)

see post from xenh12 in this blog:

PClos user irate about magazine article (http://jon-reagan.blogspot.com/2007/09/pclinuxos-2007.html)

Apparently, the PClos admins were begging to include the inflammatory forum post in their magazine.

I don't view discussing this topic as damaging to linux. IMO, what is truly damaging is allowing this kind of immature behavior to go unanswered. Its bound to offend many new users.

nanog
September 9th, 2007, 03:21 AM
How pclos handles dissent. Also, texstar refuses to criticize magazine review. (http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=31152.0)


The original post. (http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=28540.45)

I've lost my appetite for this thread. I've also completely lost my appetite for PClos.

Vadi
September 9th, 2007, 03:29 AM
Every reality has it's extremists...

Pitbull11188
September 9th, 2007, 03:35 AM
Let your experience determine the validity of the article.


Personally I run ubuntu on a machine with a 2.6ghz p4 and 512mb ram and it flys. I also use a modified version on a 1.6ghz p4 with only 128mb and it flys.

It's all a matter of what you expect your machine to do, and how much work your willing to put in to make it run that way.

Frak
September 9th, 2007, 05:13 AM
Well, PCLOS is going to get beaten down with PR for this one.

Old Pink
September 9th, 2007, 12:54 PM
You can't just dismiss something because it says something you don't want to hear. The truth is, he has a point. Ubuntu is slower than windows and other distros out of the box... and it doesn't run well with less than 1GB RAM.You couldn't be more wrong.

Currently on 256Mb 700Mhz secondary legacy system.

Working perfectly, alot faster than any Windows setup I've experienced.

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7619/shotnj2.th.png (http://img394.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shotnj2.png)

Wiebelhaus
September 9th, 2007, 02:06 PM
You couldn't be more wrong.

Currently on 256Mb 700Mhz secondary legacy system.

Working perfectly, alot faster than any Windows setup I've experienced.

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7619/shotnj2.th.png (http://img394.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shotnj2.png)

I beg to differ

as you can see I'm using almost 500 megs.

in the second shot you can see I'm running Amarok , GAIM , Liferea and firefox.

if there's any doubt check the third shot of the running processes with the ones with the most usage on top.

Wiebelhaus
September 9th, 2007, 02:08 PM
matter of fact , looking at that now , looks like firefox is hella heavy , jesus christ man..


even without firefox , I'm using more ram than you have while sitting idle with a few apps running , this could not be considered "Multi tasking" more like average usage , when I am multitasking at work with Ubuntu I'll have all four desktops loaded with apps , granted winblows would be dying in a fire , but someone saying U)buntu is the lightest or light by any measure isn't a fact , Xbuntu yes , which is why we have it and if your a linux connoisseur you'd most likely be using Puppy.


BUT , If i was confronted with a machine at work that was old and the person wanted or was strong arm talked into by me I would install Xbuntu.

aysiu
September 9th, 2007, 03:31 PM
I beg to differ

as you can see I'm using almost 500 megs.

in the second shot you can see I'm running Amarok , GAIM , Liferea and firefox.

if there's any doubt check the third shot of the running processes with the ones with the most usage on top. I don't think you understand how RAM use works in Linux.

Read this:
http://gentoo-wiki.com/FAQ_Linux_Memory_Management

Frak
September 9th, 2007, 03:50 PM
Linux does the same with RAM as Mac does, it preloads. That's why it uses so much, because unused RAM is wasted RAM.

EDIT
Sorry it caches, but there is an app that preloads for you. Got my thoughts mixed up :P

Wiebelhaus
September 9th, 2007, 04:19 PM
I don't think you understand how RAM use works in Linux.

Read this:
http://gentoo-wiki.com/FAQ_Linux_Memory_Management

I see , thanks for the link.

n3tfury
September 9th, 2007, 04:22 PM
nice "magazine". pathetic.

newbie2
September 10th, 2007, 05:18 AM
PCLOS is an excellent distro for neophytes. It's configuration control-panel surpasses anything I have encountered anywhere else for most tasks. It is the first Linux distro I would confidently give to a non Linux person and expect them to be able to manage.

Unfortunately it doesn't get everything right (DNS for example). It has a few issues that don't make it an ideal choice for a server. Many of its problems are also problems for Ubuntu.

This month I took the plunge into the Linux world as an alternative to a dying RISC OS platform that I have stuck with for much longer than some. I needed an alternative but NOT windows with Macs looking tempting but expensive. I purchased a nice Acer laptop with Vista (I need M$ world stuff for my career change Sad but realistic!). Anyway here's what happened:

1. Installed Ubuntu.
2. Looked OK except for the 1024x768 display on a 1440 x 900 laptop! - restricted drivers hmmm
3. Spent a couple weeks reading everything, googling, installing, re-installing,sudoing!,crashing!
4. I could either have a full screen with no window furniture or low res and fully functioning windows. This was doing command line stuff that nobody should ever have to do if Ubuntu/Linux was to be a serious alternative to Windows.
5. Back to Vista cleared all the partitions and merged them back together.
6. Installed Pclinux.....whoa a full resolution screen!
7. Accessed my audio and video files on my XP server via SMB....now I'm getting impressed
8. Accessed my Canon printer on the same XP server....very impressed.
9. Software selection - extensive and excellent
10 Configuration tools excellent. It even has a RISC OS option for the window furniture.

So in my opinion, based simply on my first experience:
Ubuntu 70%
PCLinuxOS 98%
http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=58&topic=25327.15
:rolleyes:

Nano Geek
September 10th, 2007, 05:20 AM
I beg to differ

as you can see I'm using almost 500 megs.

in the second shot you can see I'm running Amarok , GAIM , Liferea and firefox.

if there's any doubt check the third shot of the running processes with the ones with the most usage on top.I've found Liferea to have several memory leaks. It starts out small but it works its way up to 200 mb on my computer! Try turning that off and I bet you memory usage will go down considerably.

Frak
September 10th, 2007, 05:32 AM
http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=58&topic=25327.15
:rolleyes:
And this type of FUD is what gets people. Ubuntu doesn't include anything proprietary, for good reasons.

PCLOS is ILLEGAL to use in the U.S.
In my book, that makes Ubuntu the winner over PCLOS, by law.

IMHO, I don't like PCLOS, its bloated, slow. And Mandriva is somewhat unstable on my rig. PCLOS is even more unstable (caused my processor to go into self preservation mode)

And I'm starting to realize that PCLOS members are very elitist, and if they aren't...

First impressions people ;)

GSF1200S
September 10th, 2007, 05:41 AM
All resentment aside, I really like the theory of PCLinuxOS. Ive actually installed it on my lappie before. I prefer KDE over Gnome, I love apt, it definitely starts faster than Ubuntu, and it is very easy to understand. In THEORY, PClos should have been for me.

When I installed it, I immediately received a message that my sound didnt work. Ubuntu detected and setup sound out of the box. My wireless didnt work (as it hadnt in Ubuntu edgy), and compiling the madwifi drivers didnt fix the issue (pclos must have out of date HAL). When installing Feisty, my wireless worked at the COMMAND LINE (installed Ubuntu alt kernel) without having to change anything. I noticed the root login option, which I didnt like at all.

Oh and bootup/shutdown time? Id like to see PCLOS come within 10 seconds of my ubuntu alt+ kde core install.

PCLOS still has a lot to work on, and I dont appreciate that article either- you dont see Ubuntu articles tearing on PCLOS like that. They could take a lesson or two on civility. That said, I see PCLOS as the KDE equivalent to Ubuntu- a great community (though decidedly less active than this one), a solid and fast distro, and a massive online database of articles.

Frak
September 10th, 2007, 05:44 AM
As I see it, Ubuntu has alot of power, and in my views, they are not abusing it, only building up.

But it looks to me as if (in that article) that a little too much power can go to the head.

aysiu
September 10th, 2007, 05:44 AM
PCLinuxOS didn't work for me (same sound problem GSF1200S had), but I appreciate that it works for other people.

I don't know why people try a distro once on a particular hardware combination and then decide to write off or idealize the distro based on that one situation.

Clearly, based on what I've read about others' experiences, sometimes PCLinuxOS is the "superior" distro, and sometimes Ubuntu is the "superior" distro. And sometimes they have a tie.

Just use whatever works for you. If Ubuntu works for you, great. If PCLinuxOS works for you, also great. If some other distro works for you, still great. If you prefer Windows or Mac OS X, no problem.

Use whatever works for you and stop bashing other operating systems or pretending a "scientific" experiment on one machine gives you the right to make vast generalizations.

GSF1200S
September 10th, 2007, 05:49 AM
PCLinuxOS didn't work for me (same sound problem GSF1200S had), but I appreciate that it works for other people.

I don't know why people try a distro once on a particular hardware combination and then decide to write off or idealize the distro based on that one situation.

Clearly, based on what I've read about others' experiences, sometimes PCLinuxOS is the "superior" distro, and sometimes Ubuntu is the "superior" distro. And sometimes they have a tie.

Just use whatever works for you. If Ubuntu works for you, great. If PCLinuxOS works for you, also great. If some other distro works for you, still great. If you prefer Windows or Mac OS X, no problem.

Use whatever works for you and stop bashing other operating systems or pretending a "scientific" experiment on one machine gives you the right to make vast generalizations.

Oh yeah, and thanks to you sir.. I couldnt remember where id read about KDE core. It really is awesome, so thanks for the idea..

Frak
September 10th, 2007, 05:53 AM
PCLinuxOS didn't work for me (same sound problem GSF1200S had), but I appreciate that it works for other people.

I don't know why people try a distro once on a particular hardware combination and then decide to write off or idealize the distro based on that one situation.

Clearly, based on what I've read about others' experiences, sometimes PCLinuxOS is the "superior" distro, and sometimes Ubuntu is the "superior" distro. And sometimes they have a tie.

Just use whatever works for you. If Ubuntu works for you, great. If PCLinuxOS works for you, also great. If some other distro works for you, still great. If you prefer Windows or Mac OS X, no problem.

Use whatever works for you and stop bashing other operating systems or pretending a "scientific" experiment on one machine gives you the right to make vast generalizations.
But you know, Aysiu, we're always right because we have the All-Compatable-6100 from Binford ;)

multifaceted
September 10th, 2007, 06:47 AM
I agree with the grammatical errors, that says a lot about someone's opinion... and we all know the proverbial saying about other people's opinions...

AdamWill
September 11th, 2007, 09:06 AM
That and the repositories are very outdated, and the fact that I have to pay for the latest version repo means I'll never be trying it again (same reason I'm not going to try Mandriva).

You do not have to pay to access the Mandriva repositories.

There is a repository accessible only to Club members and people who buy boxes, yes. It contains packages that we can only legally distribute to paying customers - ones that aren't under a license that permits unlimited redistribution. The *most* significant packages in this repository are Acrobat Reader and the Flash browser plugin, which I'm sure you know you can easily get elsewhere.

Apart from those, every free / open source package in Mandriva, and every non-free package that can be redistributed without restrictions, is in our public repositories, accessible to all free of charge.

OoooMatron
September 12th, 2007, 08:48 AM
PCLos is ok but it uses KDE and KDE is bloody horrible. It also has a million applications installed and about 500,000 levels of menu items which makes it awkward and confusing.

People go on about the customisation ability of KDE but what they forget is that once you start using the apps is still looks like ****. It might look really sleek when you see a fancy desktop screenshot but that's not the full story.

What annoys me is that article does not compare a new Ubuntu installation to a new Windows installation. Consideirng most people are clueless what to do with windows once it's been freshly installed I seriously doubt they would be going on about how easy windows was when it doesn't playback flash, mp3, xvid and other proprietary code they are not allowed to include in the default install. Not to mention drivers for all the devices not on the windows CD.

And then where do the new windows users go to once they realise NO applications are installed because it's not an OEM install containing all the bloatware , adware and cut down software crap?

I use Ubuntu because this distribution gives me what I want and none of the others do for my needs.

KDulcimer
September 12th, 2007, 10:20 PM
Hello, folks.

I'm KDulcimer from the PCLinuxOS community.

I want to point out one thing: The PCLinuxOS Magazine is a community project and its opinions are not necessarily those of the official developers of PCLinuxOS. In fact, it is my belief that the opinions expressed in that article do not resemble the opinions PCLinuxOS developers hold towards Ubuntu.

The article was a reprint of a forum post.

[personal opinion, not the opinion of others in the PCLOS community or developers]
While I thought the forum post was interesting and certainly not inappropriate for the PCLinuxOS forums, I thought the mag article was inappropriate.
[/personal opinion]

To repeat: The opinions expressed in the Magazine ARE NOT the opinions of PCLinuxOS or its developers.

karellen
September 12th, 2007, 10:31 PM
Hello, folks.

I'm KDulcimer from the PCLinuxOS community.

I want to point out one thing: The PCLinuxOS Magazine is a community project and its opinions are not necessarily those of the official developers of PCLinuxOS. In fact, it is my belief that the opinions expressed in that article do not resemble the opinions PCLinuxOS developers hold towards Ubuntu.

The article was a reprint of a forum post.

[personal opinion, not the opinion of others in the PCLOS community or developers]
While I thought the forum post was interesting and certainly not inappropriate for the PCLinuxOS forums, I thought the mag article was inappropriate.
[/personal opinion]

To repeat: The opinions expressed in the Magazine ARE NOT the opinions of PCLinuxOS or its developers.

well I think that sums it all...
as they are people who bash pclinux on ubuntuforums there are people who bash ubuntu in pclinuxforum/community magazine

Frak
September 12th, 2007, 10:59 PM
Wait, there is no administration on the Mag at all?

Glad the Fridge is admin controlled.

KDulcimer
September 12th, 2007, 11:35 PM
The Mag has a very low staff. Probably no more than 6 or so.

OoooMatron
September 13th, 2007, 07:11 AM
Hello, folks.

I'm KDulcimer from the PCLinuxOS community.

I want to point out one thing: The PCLinuxOS Magazine is a community project and its opinions are not necessarily those of the official developers of PCLinuxOS. In fact, it is my belief that the opinions expressed in that article do not resemble the opinions PCLinuxOS developers hold towards Ubuntu.

The article was a reprint of a forum post.

[personal opinion, not the opinion of others in the PCLOS community or developers]
While I thought the forum post was interesting and certainly not inappropriate for the PCLinuxOS forums, I thought the mag article was inappropriate.
[/personal opinion]

To repeat: The opinions expressed in the Magazine ARE NOT the opinions of PCLinuxOS or its developers.


Well that seems reasonable. I do think that now PCLinuxOS is one of the major recognisable brands in the Linux community that they should try to hold more control over the use of their name and the content of articles provided using the name. I don't want to sound all corporate or anything :lolflag:

I was a PCLinuxOS user before I jumped ship to Linux and I understand that most of the forum members (from last year, at least) do not hold as critical opinions as that article seemed to imply.

I have great respect for Tex and the community there,and while it wasn't for me (at the time - although it was so close to being perfect for me) it's great that there is another distribution equal or better in certain areas to Ubuntu. I hope both development teams learn from each other and continue to make Linux popular and easy to use.

Nano Geek
September 13th, 2007, 02:58 PM
Hello, folks.

I'm KDulcimer from the PCLinuxOS community.

I want to point out one thing: The PCLinuxOS Magazine is a community project and its opinions are not necessarily those of the official developers of PCLinuxOS. In fact, it is my belief that the opinions expressed in that article do not resemble the opinions PCLinuxOS developers hold towards Ubuntu.

The article was a reprint of a forum post.

[personal opinion, not the opinion of others in the PCLOS community or developers]
While I thought the forum post was interesting and certainly not inappropriate for the PCLinuxOS forums, I thought the mag article was inappropriate.
[/personal opinion]

To repeat: The opinions expressed in the Magazine ARE NOT the opinions of PCLinuxOS or its developers.However, the PCLinuxOS magazine should not allow such a biased "review" to go to print. Publishing something like that looks extremely unprofessional, and the article itself has several dozen grammatical errors in it.

You might want to proof read it before you print it.

MissionImpossible
September 15th, 2007, 02:12 AM
Page Hit Ranking

Rank Distribution H.P.D*
1 PCLinuxOS 2522>
2 Ubuntu 2517<
3 openSUSE 1418<
4 Fedora 1284=
5 Sabayon 1198=
6 Mint 1011<
7 Debian 1001<
8 MEPIS 863<
9 Mandriva 746<
10 Damn Small 665

Info from DW
About PCLinuxOS
PCLinuxOS is an English only live CD initially based on Mandrake Linux that runs entirely from a bootable CD.


PCLinuxOS
PCLinuxOS was first announced in 2003 by Bill Reynolds, better known as "Texstar". Prior to creating his own distribution, Texstar was already a well-known developer in the Mandrake Linux community of users for building up-to-date RPM packages for the popular distribution and providing them as a free download. In 2003 he decided to build a new distribution, initially based on Mandrake Linux

-------------------
From Wikipedia

History

The precursor to PCLinuxOS was a set of RPM packages created to improve successive versions of Mandrake Linux (now Mandriva Linux). These packages were created by Bill Reynolds, a packager better known as Texstar[1]. From the year 2000 to 2003, Texstar maintained his repository of RPM packages in parallel with the PCLinuxOnline Web site.

In 2003 Texstar created a fork of Mandrake Linux 9.2 (which was released in October 2003). ......Texstar has since developed that fork independently into a full-fledged distribution. The initial releases were successively numbered as "previews" i.e. p5, p7, p8 up to p81a, then p9, p91, p92.....In August 2006 three new CDs/ISOs, numbered 0.93a, were released.....


With the advent of PCLinuxOS 2007, also known as .94, there has been an entire shift to a more modern code which will require a complete reinstall to this version..... A new logo has also been designed for the new version, and is incorporated in the boot screen. A new login screen has been designed, entitled "Dark". PCLinuxOS 2007 final version was released on 2007-05-21.

What they OFFICIAILY DON'T TELL YOU is that PCLOS could NOT keep the "fork" going but RE-BASED AGAIN on MANDRIVA 2007!!!

THUS, PCLOS = CLAYTONS FORK!!!
WHY keep claiming that they are a fork and not be honest about the fact that they are MANDRIVA BASED?

Compare SimplyMEPIS honesty and clarity about their makeup/base (http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6170488551.html)

samjh
September 15th, 2007, 02:30 AM
Now, how is PCLinuxOS a "broken fork"?

Most people who have tried it seem to like it (including me, although I prefer Kubuntu). It's by no means "broken".

Happy_Man
September 15th, 2007, 02:32 AM
Well, good. This way, Ubuntu devs will have to work in order to make their software No. 1 again.

Nano Geek
September 15th, 2007, 02:34 AM
I highly suspect that someone is cheating in PCLinuxOS's favor. Yes, I know that you will say that it's not a big deal, but that's the first place people come to see who has the best distro. Besides, remember that Ubuntu "review" in the PCLinuxOS magazine? That shows that they aren't afraid of trying to hurt the competition to get an edge.

I think Distrowatch should look into this.

ryno519
September 15th, 2007, 02:41 AM
I heard some group say that DistroWatch rankings are laregely useless in ranking the popularity and quality of a GNU/Linux distro. I think it was... DistroWatch that said that.

Andrewie
September 15th, 2007, 03:29 AM
Other then hurting fanboys pride, does this mean anything? I guess if someone is new to linux, and they do search and happen come across distrowatch, I guess they'll use PClinuxOS. The title of this thread more then proves that the Ubuntu "pride" was hurt.

23meg
September 15th, 2007, 03:36 AM
Other then hurting fanboys pride, does this mean anything?

It just means we'll get another 400-odd post thread where people will argue to death over personal preferences, hearsay and misinterpreted statistics until harassment begins and the thread gets closed.

Nano Geek
September 15th, 2007, 03:39 AM
Other then hurting fanboys pride, does this mean anything? I guess if someone is new to linux, and they do search and happen come across distrowatch, I guess they'll use PClinuxOS. The title of this thread more then proves that the Ubuntu "pride" was hurt.That's one thing. Another is that it appears that PCLinuxOS is cheating. Every other survey shows them far down in the list of the most popular distributions, yet on Distrowatch they are soaring about everyone else.

Somethings not right here.

Andrewie
September 15th, 2007, 03:47 AM
That's one thing. Another is that it appears that PCLinuxOS is cheating. Every other survey shows them far down in the list of the most popular distributions, yet on Distrowatch they are soaring about everyone else.

Somethings not right here.

I thought they already got caught

Nano Geek
September 15th, 2007, 03:50 AM
As far as I know, they haven't.

23meg
September 15th, 2007, 03:56 AM
I thought they already got caught

That was Linspire.

Nano Geek
September 15th, 2007, 04:04 AM
That was Linspire.I hadn't head that Linspire had cheated before.

Huh

MissionImpossible
September 15th, 2007, 05:04 AM
I highly suspect that someone is cheating in PCLinuxOS's favor. Yes, I know that you will say that it's not a big deal, but that's the first place people come to see who has the best distro. Besides, remember that Ubuntu "review" in the PCLinuxOS magazine? That shows that they aren't afraid of trying to hurt the competition to get an edge.

I think Distrowatch should look into this.

DW, DesktopLinux and a number of other linux vested interests don't want Ubuntu to become too dominant and are trying (in their own ways) to cut it down to size, IMO!

The way it looks to me, PCLOS and DW PHR is being, and will be, used to "prove" that Ubuntu is not as popular as all the recent (especially the current Lenovo (http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=98#) one) PC OEM polls indicate.

Looking at the latest Lenovo poll figures, it is evident that MANDRIVA (on which PCLOS is based) is making a big surge upwards. Mandriva, adding PCLOS together, looks like it will be claiming No 2 spot soon. I leave the rest of the speculation/s to the reader. :-)

Latest figures from the Lenovo poll (http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=98#):

What Linux distribution would you most like to see supported on a ThinkPad?

[Ubuntu group]
# Ubuntu
20002 - 43% of all votes
# Kubuntu1
2458 - 5% of all votes
# Xubuntu1
230 - 0% of all votes
# LinuxMint1
185 - 0% of all votes

[Debian group]
# Debian
5149 - 11% of all votes
# SimplyMEPIS1
117 - 0% of all votes
# Sidux1
90 - 0% of all votes

[Mandriva group]
# Mandriva1
3597 - 8% of all votes
# PCLinuxOS1
523 - 1% of all votes


[Red Hat group]
# Red Hat
475 - 1% of all votes
# Fedora1
2294 - 5% of all votes
# fedora1
109 - 0% of all votes

# Anyone that refuses to carry binary-only drivers, so that all others will also benefit, as it will require documented hardware1
2666 - 6% of all votes


[SUSE group]
# SUSE
1431 - 3% of all votes
# SLED
244 - 1% of all votes
# OpenSUSE1
998 - 2% of all votes

[Gentoo group]
# Gentoo1
1607 - 3% of all votes
# gentoo base system only with a working kernel (.config) and a working xorg config.1
238 - 1% of all votes

[BSD group]
# FreeBSD
1063 - 2% of all votes
# OpenBSD1
428 - 1% of all votes

# Slackware1
735 - 2% of all votes


# archlinux1
707 - 2% of all votes


# Any user-friendly Linux distribution.1
401 - 1% of all votes


Total Votes: 46592 Started: September 4, 2007 1 = Added by a guest

23meg
September 15th, 2007, 05:12 AM
Well, good. This way, Ubuntu devs will have to work in order to make their software No. 1 again.

I don't think a single developer cares about Distrowatch ranking, out of the 30% or so that know what exactly it is.

MissionImpossible
September 15th, 2007, 05:22 AM
I don't think a single developer cares about Distrowatch ranking, out of the 30% or so that know what exactly it is.

Some distros use DW rankings for marketing (official promotion)
An example is:

"....After the release of SimplyMEPIS in August, MEPIS climbed
to #6 at distrowatch.com and eventually hit #1 in January 2005...."

Nano Geek
September 15th, 2007, 05:24 AM
DW, DesktopLinux and a number of other linux vested interests don't want Ubuntu to become too dominant and are trying (in their own ways) to cut it down to size, IMO!

The way it looks to me, PCLOS and DW PHR is being, and will be, used to "prove" that Ubuntu is not as popular as all the recent (especially the current Lenovo (http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=98#) one) PC OEM polls indicate.

Looking at the latest Lenovo poll figures, it is evident that MANDRIVA (on which PCLOS is based) is making a big surge upwards. Mandriva, adding PCLOS together, looks like it will be claiming No 2 spot soon. I leave the rest of the speculation/s to the reader. :-)Either way, it looks like someone's cheating and I hope that they come to their scenes and stop it soon.

23meg
September 15th, 2007, 05:30 AM
Some distros use DW rankings for marketing (official promotion)
An example is:

"....After the release of SimplyMEPIS in August, MEPIS climbed
to #6 at distrowatch.com and eventually hit #1 in January 2005...."

I was talking about Ubuntu developers, and developers are almost never involved in marketing.

Incense
September 15th, 2007, 05:31 AM
I hadn't head that Linspire had cheated before.

Huh

Yeah they did last year.It had something to do with Linspire redirecting info from their homepage to DW somehow. I don't think PCLOS is cheating though. They have been holding a solid number 2 slot for a long time. It is a great distro, you really can not deny that.

K.Mandla
September 15th, 2007, 05:35 AM
I heard some group say that DistroWatch rankings are laregely useless in ranking the popularity and quality of a GNU/Linux distro. I think it was... DistroWatch that said that.
LMAO! :lol:

Really, folks. Every few months someone gets all wound up over who's in first on Distrowatch. Remember this?

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=318109

So let's review:


It's not scientific.
There's always an ebb and a flow, which tends to rise and fall with releases for each distro (imagine that!).
It shouldn't matter what distro you use, and everyone knows that. I run two or three at home, plus another one when I feel adventurous. And I'm typing this from XP. (Blasphemer!)

Now everybody hold on tight while this gets shuffled of to the Other Distro arena. ... Please fasten your seat belts. The captain has activated the no smoking sign. ... :mrgreen:

Gremlinzzz
September 15th, 2007, 05:39 AM
:confused:second best!:( BRB have to go download some thing.

BoyOfDestiny
September 15th, 2007, 05:42 AM
I hadn't head that Linspire had cheated before.

Huh

More like Conspire huh? (ah puns...)

But more seriously, I stopped visiting Distrowatch once I installed Ubuntu. I stopped "distro hunting" so to speak. Perhaps I'm not alone here?

I had tried knoppix, mandrake, gentoo, kanotix, debian, then ubuntu. I've stuck with it since Warty... To keep from getting bored, I run the alpha releases :)

danny joe ritchie
September 15th, 2007, 05:50 AM
I don't care much for PCLOS, or Windows, I guess thats why I'm on an Ubuntu forum right now !!!!:lolflag:

wolfen69
September 15th, 2007, 06:42 AM
it's funny how ive tried probably 60 distros and pclinuxos is the only one that wont install for me. i have VERY generic "every distro has my drivers" computer parts. it wouldnt even install on my friends toshiba laptop either. go figure.

MissionImpossible
September 15th, 2007, 07:28 AM
Looking at the latest Lenovo poll figures, it is evident that MANDRIVA (on which PCLOS is based) is making a big surge upwards. Mandriva, adding PCLOS together, looks like it will be claiming No 2 spot soon. I leave the rest of the speculation/s to the reader. :-)

Latest figures from the Lenovo poll (http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=98#):

What Linux distribution would you most like to see supported on a ThinkPad?

[Debian group]
# Debian
5149 - 11% of all votes
# SimplyMEPIS1
117 - 0% of all votes
# Sidux1
90 - 0% of all votes

[Mandriva group]
# Mandriva1
3597 - 8% of all votes
# PCLinuxOS1
523 - 1% of all votes


The SURGE is ON! In approx 2 hrs, Mandriva has logged in over 250 votes.

# Mandriva1
3850 - 8% of all votes

----------

Is there some kind of vote stacking going on?
LOL

MissionImpossible
September 15th, 2007, 07:35 AM
PCLinuxOS is now N 1 in DistroWatch over 6 months!!!! (http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=58&topic=31577.msg242250#msg242250)

The above is a thread topic over at PCLOS forums, where "Texstar" and Company are accepting the award and giving thank you speeches!:lolflag:

Lord Illidan
September 15th, 2007, 07:58 AM
I don't know Texstar, and I haven't used pclinuxos for a very very long time, but this sums it up :

We've been actively removing these kind of threads in the past and will do so in the future but I think we'll let this one stay for now just to say thank you to everyone who has been along for this wonderful ride. Thanks to the Ripper Gang for all their hours of work. Thanks to Mandriva for letting us utilize their codebase for PCLinuxOS and all the people who have given so much of their time helping us enjoy Linux technology and share it with friends who might like it as well. Linux market share wont come from a single distribution but from the entire Linux community. I'm glad there is a Ubuntu, Suse, Mandriva, Fedora, Mint and Mepis as well as all the other flavors of Linux. It is all Linux and it is all good. So thank you again from the bottom of my heart for allowing us to be part of this wonderful revolution. --emphasis is mine.Hear that? I see no problems with PCLinuxOS as being in the first place...I remember Ubuntu rocketing to DW 1st just as quickly. It has remained at 1st for a long long time, now it just has an added incentive to improve.

AFAIK, Yoper was also accused of DW hijacking, but I don't really care about the stats. The distro should speak for itself.

MissionImpossible
September 15th, 2007, 08:14 AM
The SURGE is ON! In approx 2 hrs, Mandriva has logged in over 250 votes.

# Mandriva1
3850 - 8% of all votes

----------

Is there some kind of vote stacking going on?
LOL
# Mandriva1
4008 - 8% of all votes

Looks to me like as if there is a script running for Mandriva, their vote is increasing at a constant rate and has now reached over 4000. Is it a case of "Dirty Deeds, Done Dirt Cheap?:(

http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=98#

Tux Aubrey
September 15th, 2007, 08:22 AM
Looks to me like as if there is a script running for Mandriva

Another cron job? Heaven forbid!

Warren Watts
September 15th, 2007, 08:28 AM
Yes, I know that you will say that it's not a big deal, but that's the first place people come to see who has the best distro.

I have never understood this kind of logic. Automobile manufacturers use it all the time. Just because something is the "best selling (insert product here) in america" or "rated number one in page hits on DistroWatch" doesn't make it the best. It just means more people have expressed an interest in it.

"The Best" is a subjective term at best anyway. What is best for one person may not be suitable at all for another.

I say hooray for PCLOS. What is good for them is good for the Linux community. Maybe it will encourage some new converts to Linux. Maybe they will stay with PCLOS, maybe they will branch out and try other distros.

I know I haven't stuck to just Ubuntu; I am using Archlinux and Wolvix as well. They each serve their own purpose and there isn't any best.

So lets get over who is at the top, and hope that having someone new at the top of the DistroWatch list encourages more people to try Linux!

SunnyRabbiera
September 15th, 2007, 08:35 AM
PCLinuxOS is now N 1 in DistroWatch over 6 months!!!! (http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=58&topic=31577.msg242250#msg242250)

The above is a thread topic over at PCLOS forums, where "Texstar" and Company are accepting the award and giving thank you speeches!:lolflag:

Come on give me a break, Texstar honestly has no beef with ubuntu, he clearly stated good intentions and I quote:

I'm glad there is a Ubuntu, Suse, Mandriva, Fedora, Mint and Mepis as well as all the other flavors of Linux. It is all Linux and it is all good. So thank you again from the bottom of my heart for allowing us to be part of this wonderful revolution.

He only gives credit to where it is due, to the ripper gang who provide packages and a few others, it is by no means a gloat.

And personally the "broken fork" bit is unneeded, seriously if PCLinux works for people then let them use it!
I know I use PClinux because it works, and I like ubuntu because it works... just because something tops distrowatch does not make any other distro inferior or superior and this sort of sniping really sets us behind.

MissionImpossible
September 15th, 2007, 08:35 AM
Another cron job? Heaven forbid!

Hi mate,

Just keep an eye on that poll and you will see what I mean. It just keeps ticking on at a constant rate (it has clocked about 400 - 500 votes in the last few hours).

I am not that technically knowledgeable to know how its done but it sure looks pretty nifty, considering it needs to generate separate ip numbers for each vote.

Just lost my faith in ALL polls and rankings!:(

Cheers

SunnyRabbiera
September 15th, 2007, 08:39 AM
Come on puh leeze, just because you might be a Ubuntu zealot doesnt mean you have to play at this sort of thing.
I am a neutral party here and really this kind of topic cheeses me off...

Lord Illidan
September 15th, 2007, 08:39 AM
Or perhaps people actually use Mandriva?

SunnyRabbiera
September 15th, 2007, 08:46 AM
well hey Mandriva is a good distro, I am not fond of some things on it but we all due Mandy a lot of credit for paving the way for desktop distros, a lot of the current desktop distros (even ubuntu) owe quite a bit to it.

karellen
September 15th, 2007, 08:46 AM
I don't really care about PCLinuxOS. from my experience it was the only distro in which I couldn't make my pppoe connection to work. so I said bye,bye in no time

SunnyRabbiera
September 15th, 2007, 08:47 AM
well hey its all about whats works for you in the end, if PCLOS didnt work for you then its fine... no distro is a mountain, even ubuntu has its flaws.

MissionImpossible
September 15th, 2007, 08:48 AM
And personally the "broken fork" bit is unneeded, seriously if PCLinux works for people then let them use it!

Hi Ms Sunny,
Read carefully and you shall see that I am right about the "broken fork"! I am NOT talking about the Distro os but about their claim to be a fork of Mandrake (which they no longer are!).

Also, I find it laughable that they (especially Tex and other devs) take DW page hits seriously!:lolflag:

Cheers

Lord Illidan
September 15th, 2007, 08:54 AM
What I don't like about Mandriva is how they fired their founder, Gael Duval. Ironically, his latest project, Ulteo is running on Ubuntu.

MissionImpossible
September 15th, 2007, 09:08 AM
The SURGE is ON! In approx 2 hrs, Mandriva has logged in over 250 votes.

# Mandriva1
3850 - 8% of all votes

----------

Is there some kind of vote stacking going on?
LOL
In my first post on poll stats in this thread, Mandriva had approx 3600 votes, and now there are 4200 votes ( approx 600 in about 3 hrs).
# Mandriva1
3597 - 8% of all votes

Current stats
# Mandriva1
4199 - 9% of all votes

I DO NOT believe this is a normal vote but that it is an automated script!
OBSERVE and see for yourselves!

Probably this is how PCLOS DW PHD was accomplished as well?

Food for thought!

K.Mandla
September 15th, 2007, 09:16 AM
Yawn. If people were as concerned about how many more PCs are running Microsoft products, perhaps we would make some headway against Windows.

Infighting is pointless, particularly over an indicator that is, as you show, easily influenced and often fluctuating. Why not invest some of this energy into promoting Linux of any kind, rather than bickering over Ballmer's scraps?

Lord Illidan
September 15th, 2007, 09:21 AM
Yawn. If people were as concerned about how many more PCs are running Microsoft products, perhaps we would make some headway against Windows.

Infighting is pointless, particularly over an indicator that is, as you show, easily influenced and often fluctuating. Why not invest some of this energy into promoting Linux of any kind, rather than bickering over Ballmer's scraps?

+1

orange2k
September 15th, 2007, 09:30 AM
What matters to me is community support: when it comes to Ubuntu forums, there are always a LOT of people hanging around (around 3000 or more at any given time) ready to help you out. When you take a look at PCLinuxOS forum, you will see no more than 50 people - and Most Online Ever: 511 (June 30, 2007, 01:47:52 PM)...
I think these numbers are more relevant than Distrowatch ranking...

Bothered
September 15th, 2007, 09:33 AM
When gutsy is released I'm pretty sure ubuntu will move back to the top.

I must say I'm a little surprised though. Is PCLinuxOS really that popular already?

RedDwarf
September 15th, 2007, 09:34 AM
What matters to me is community support
If the distro is good enough you will not need any kind of support. ;)

Warren Watts
September 15th, 2007, 10:33 AM
What matters to me is community support: when it comes to Ubuntu forums, there are always a LOT of people hanging around (around 3000 or more at any given time) ready to help you out. When you take a look at PCLinuxOS forum, you will see no more than 50 people - and Most Online Ever: 511 (June 30, 2007, 01:47:52 PM)...
I think these numbers are more relevant than Distrowatch ranking...

To me an extremely valid point. If it weren't for this forum, I doubt I would have been as successful as I was in setting up and maintaining Ubuntu. I have Wolvix installed on one of my other PC's, and the lack of a large user base really does cripple my using the disto on a day-to-day basis. It's a really nice distro; it's fast and efficient on my older hardware, but because of the small user base, I struggle when I have a question or I try adding applications not in their repositories.

So a large user base is most definitely a huge plus especially if you are trying to attract new users to the world of Open Source.

DreadPirateRoby
September 15th, 2007, 11:15 AM
Distrowatch rankings don't mean much beyond who's in the top ten and who isn't. Personally, I only end up reading a distrowatch listing for more info on something I don't know too much about or to find reviews of a new release. Both Ubuntu (actually Xubuntu) and PCLOS are being used in my case, but I probably haven't viewed either listing in months.

PCLOS could be getting a boost from simply being the relatively little known "new guy" in a Linux world that pretty much already knows what to expect from Ubuntu and it in turn could be recieving extra attention from the uninitiated due to a press that has some times used the words "Ubuntu" and "Linux" interchangeably.

Tracking any sort of linux usage is sketchy enough with more serious attempts and It ultimately wouldn't be worth getting bent out of shape over even if distrowatch did indicate who was using what as long as they were happy with it.

.02

Gremlinzzz
September 15th, 2007, 02:39 PM
I'M back don't know what it is with people always wanting to be number 1.Anyways i just installed PCLinuxOS and i need a little help.:lolflag:

karellen
September 15th, 2007, 02:54 PM
What matters to me is community support: when it comes to Ubuntu forums, there are always a LOT of people hanging around (around 3000 or more at any given time) ready to help you out. When you take a look at PCLinuxOS forum, you will see no more than 50 people - and Most Online Ever: 511 (June 30, 2007, 01:47:52 PM)...
I think these numbers are more relevant than Distrowatch ranking...

+++++1 to this
Ubuntu has probably the largest forums in the whole Linux world

gabhla
September 15th, 2007, 03:00 PM
I think we should compliment PCLOS. It's a great distro - one of the better ones out there and they've pulled up from the bottom all the way to the top in the DW rankings. But, so? I remember when Ubuntu came from nowhere.

Obviuosly PCLOS is very popular, and for good reason. So is Ubuntu. Personally, I use Kubuntu, (because I like KDE). In my own rankings, Ubuntu would be the number one Gnome distro and Kubuntu the number one KDE distro, with Mepis and PCLOS close behind. But, that's just me.

I think we should be happy for the folks over at PCLOS. Besides, this is merely a ranking...it's not politics, footballl or the game of life.

orange2k
September 15th, 2007, 03:15 PM
I think we should compliment PCLOS. It's a great distro - one of the better ones out there and they've pulled up from the bottom all the way to the top in the DW rankings. But, so? I remember when Ubuntu came from nowhere.

Obviuosly PCLOS is very popular, and for good reason. So is Ubuntu. Personally, I use Kubuntu, (because I like KDE). In my own rankings, Ubuntu would be the number one Gnome distro and Kubuntu the number one KDE distro, with Mepis and PCLOS close behind. But, that's just me.

I think we should be happy for the folks over at PCLOS. Besides, this is merely a ranking...it's not politics, footballl or the game of life.

+1
Besides that, we all share the same programs, no matter KDE or Gnome...
I prefer Amarok to Exaile and K3b to Gnome baker...
Competition is good: Linux emerged because of lack of competition...
And now it takes a fight with the BIG players...
Competition among distros: a good thing - if one gets better, the other improves, too...
In the windows world there is no competition: just MS vs MS - and we can all see how this turned out...

Nano Geek
September 15th, 2007, 03:16 PM
I don't think PCLOS is cheating though. They have been holding a solid number 2 slot for a long time. It is a great distro, you really can not deny that.I don't mind that they are in first place if they got there honestly, what I'm upset about the fact that it looks like they are cheating. Remember awhile ago that article in their magazine about Ubuntu? They basically said that Ubuntu stunk and PCLinuxOS was the best.

They also rose very quickly in the ratings, and the reviews I've seen say that it still has some rough edges. And in every other poll, they are far behind Ubuntu and openSuse.

I'm not saying that I know that they are cheating, but it looks suspicious to me.

Gremlinzzz
September 15th, 2007, 05:07 PM
We live in a suspicious world. but i don't believe that they cheated i tried the newest version of PCLinuxOS when it was first released i didn't like it.I do see why they moved up like mint every thing is installed out of the box.There are allot of people running from the evil windows so they need a system that just works. Its all Linux so its all good.
:guitar:

Andrewie
September 15th, 2007, 06:28 PM
I don't mind that they are in first place if they got there honestly, what I'm upset about the fact that it looks like they are cheating. Remember awhile ago that article in their magazine about Ubuntu? They basically said that Ubuntu stunk and PCLinuxOS was the best.

They also rose very quickly in the ratings, and the reviews I've seen say that it still has some rough edges. And in every other poll, they are far behind Ubuntu and openSuse.

I'm not saying that I know that they are cheating, but it looks suspicious to me.

you know that Ubuntu came out of nowhere too right

tashmooclam
September 15th, 2007, 06:44 PM
I was wondering, when they get millions of those "yellowsheepriver" $150 linux boxes and Sinomanic laptops in the hands of the Chinese, then the most used OS may be "Future Alpha" Linux (homegrown Chinese) or Thinix.
Off the subject. My favorite name for a Linux version is "Miss Dragon"
"Say, that's an interesting little laptop you have there." "Yeah, it cost me $250." "Can you run XP on it?" "Well, right now I am using 'miss dragon' and writing a document with 'red office'" .:)
All of these developments will help Ubuntu I believe since other ideas for GUI and desktop environments will be forthcoming. Ubuntu may be able to cherry pick the most useful ones someday.

SunnyRabbiera
September 15th, 2007, 07:15 PM
We live in a suspicious world. but i don't believe that they cheated i tried the newest version of PCLinuxOS when it was first released i didn't like it.I do see why they moved up like mint every thing is installed out of the box.There are allot of people running from the evil windows so they need a system that just works. Its all Linux so its all good.
:guitar:

actually 2007 to me is a great release, and so was the previous version.
Of course its default colors and such leaves a lot to be desired but I am enjoying my time with it.
I might keep PCLOS, I might not, the only reason right now I am using it is that feisty didnt work for me... Dapper and Edgy worked fine but feisty really sucked for me and it is a sad day when a alpha/beta quality version upstages it (already gutsy is looking much better then Feisty, as honestly I feel feisty was rushed out before it was ready due to the many issues I had with it)
I am definitely keeping my eye out on gutsy and the next LTS version of ubuntu but for now i stay where I am at.

Gremlinzzz
September 15th, 2007, 07:52 PM
Its all Linux so its all good.
:guitar:

RedDwarf
September 15th, 2007, 10:15 PM
Remember awhile ago that article in their magazine about Ubuntu? They basically said that Ubuntu stunk and PCLinuxOS was the best.
They made a test that anyone would see isn't very scientific, so what? Up to where we know the quotes in that article are real.
I mean, there is a guy in the Ubuntu forums that insists in saying that "looks like PCLinuxOS is cheating"... and you know, this guy hasn't a single evidence. But since this guy isn't saying anything false, just giving their opinion... where is the problem?
It is very possible that there exists 10 guys that don't like Ubuntu, and that's all they said. If someone made wider conclusions from this... he/she is wrong.

Distrowatch ranking doesn't means anything, a test that only uses 10 samples/guys and is conducted by a PCLinuxOS user doesn't means anything, your suspicions doesn't means anything...

DreadPirateRoby
September 15th, 2007, 11:25 PM
The pclos magazine is a community project. Members of the dev team occasionally contribute, but they're not the ones who have the say of what makes it in and what doesn't. The guys I know of that are involved in the project seem nice enough and the magazine has published some good articles in the past, but I don't think the decision to include the piece on ubuntu was very well thought out. It should also be noted that the ubuntu article was taken from a thread in the forums there and later edited for inclusion in the magazine, not originally written for the mag.

There are more than a few favorable reviews and comments about pclos around and of course, they are well deserved.

PCLOS has less technical users in mind (more so than ubuntu I'd say) and these people are pretty likely to hear of distro watch as a good source of linux information while never really having a clue about these polls elsewhere. Also, in the case of the lenovo thing, I don't think the community is as excited about a possible OEM deal (or polls for that matter :roll:) as the people on the ubuntu end. I for one voted for mandriva since they could use the business and stand a better chance of including all the frills.

exploder
September 16th, 2007, 12:12 AM
Does it really matter who is number one? Ubuntu and PCLinux are both good distributions.

Ubuntu is very successful with gnome, while PCLinux is very successful with KDE.

There is really no need for this thread. User's of both distro's are always going to argue that their choice is better.

I use what works for me regardless of what any magazine or article says. I do not like distro bashing, however I do not have to pay any attention to it either. You should do the same.

Midwest-Linux
September 16th, 2007, 01:37 AM
Red Hat put Linux on the map, but Ubuntu put Linux on the world stage.

aysiu
September 16th, 2007, 01:54 AM
I've merged a few of these similar threads together.

karellen
September 16th, 2007, 07:07 AM
http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/20081
could this be related to the PCLinuxOS/Ubuntu switching places in the top rankings?

ebozzz
September 16th, 2007, 07:34 AM
Weed is not a drug that causes hallucinations.

That depends on the weed. :);-)

kirios
September 16th, 2007, 07:47 AM
It's amusing that so many people seem to take the Distrowatch rankings seriously when even Ladislav Bodnar admits that they are meaningless.
In an editorial which highlighted the discrepancy between the Distrowatch server log analysis and the Page Hit Ranking, Ladislav Bodnar wrote

Granted, the DistroWatch Page Hit Ranking doesn't mean all that much and we have been saying this for years.
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070827#feature

Ladislav also concedes that the Page Hit Ranking could mislead new users who visit Distrowatch:

141 • RE: 129 (by ladislav on 2007-09-12 00:52:02 GMT from Taiwan)

is it possible that the Page Hit Ranking could be a bit misleading for new users who are trying to choose a distro? Being featured prominently on the home page and all

"Yes, no doubt about it. But what's the alternative? An alphabetical list of 500 distributions? I somehow doubt that it would more helpful. As a matter of fact, I think that the current list based on page hits is useful to new visitors; we are seeing the rise of user-friendly distributions like PCLinuxOS or Linux Mint which don't yet have much mindshare outside of this web site, but which might be better first-time Linux choices than some other, more famous distros out there."
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070910&mode=37#comments

Note that he doesn't attempt to explain why these 'user-friendly distributions' don't have much mindshare outside of Distrowatch.

afonic
September 16th, 2007, 11:49 AM
I am an Ubuntu and Arch user but never load their pages in Distrowatch, there is just no need to - you know all the info there if you use the distro.

Distrowatch ranking is just based on hits in some distro's page, so imo it just represents which new distribution has the more enthusiastic new users (and possibly young in age!).

Sure it is normal for Ubuntu or Suse to be in the top5 but if you see of all those distros like PCLinuxOS, Sabayon, Mint etc that don't even have 5% of the "market" share all together be in the top5 places while Fedora or even Debian are lower you understand that there are people that love these distros and refresh the page at least once a day to help it climb the ranking and get some press. I don't think it is bad, I am just saying people should stop taking the distrowatch ranking like some popularity contest.

That's all.

afonic
September 16th, 2007, 11:57 AM
I've tried PCLinuxOS but I was not that impressed. Sure it is a distro that makes stuff easy for the newbie but for me that Mandriva Control Panel is a nightmare for me (just like YaST) as it makes you take 5mins to change a setting you'd have changed in 5 seconds.

Besides that it looks OK and I guess it works fine out of the box for many new users out there but nothing too exciting. The repositories are very limited, the system speed is average, the release cycle pretty random.

However I don't think there is any reason that it would annoy me, I like all Linux distros as every single one of them brings something new and help improve the OS we are using.

Don't get into distro wars people, it's not a nice sport. :P

angryfirelord
September 16th, 2007, 02:33 PM
http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+pclinux%2C+pclos%2C+pclinuxos

Nuff said. ;-)

MissionImpossible
September 16th, 2007, 02:50 PM
It's amusing that so many people seem to take the Distrowatch rankings seriously when even Ladislav Bodnar admits that they are meaningless.
In an editorial which highlighted the discrepancy between the Distrowatch server log analysis and the Page Hit Ranking, Ladislav Bodnar wrote

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070827#feature

Ladislav also concedes that the Page Hit Ranking could mislead new users who visit Distrowatch:

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070910&mode=37#comments

Note that he doesn't attempt to explain why these 'user-friendly distributions' don't have much mindshare outside of Distrowatch.

I agree about NOT taking DW "Rankings" seriously! But even people who should know better seem to take them quite seriously, Tex and his gang, PC magazine journalists, and even lead developers of other distros ( eg MEPIS). Then again, it is used as a business tool by DW to generate extra advertising banner impressions. Also, small/minor distros NEED DW "Ranking" for marketing purposes and this, in turn, helps DW get more BANNER IMPRESSIONS (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=540683). In the end, it all comes down to VESTED INTEREST - MONEY!!!



kirios66 (http://forum.mandriva.com/viewtopic.php?t=70261&sid=e033cd8e565c60ee59bbed8b9fad52ac)
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 52
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:16 am
Ubuntu 20935
Mandriva 6856
Debian 5391 ...
Are you one and the same person?
Well, I watched a server yesterday clock about 200 votes per hour for Mandriva, until it clocked past 5400 (I monitored it from about 3600). If it can be done here, it can be done anywhere and by anybody with the right access and knowhow!

Tell Adam W NOT to get too excited about the poll!:lolflag:
http://www.happyassassin.net/2007/09/14/lenovo-poll-more-2008-work/

RedDwarf
September 16th, 2007, 03:16 PM
http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+pclinux%2C+pclos%2C+pclinuxos

Nuff said. ;-)
So PCLinuxOS Magazine was correct!!! Ubuntu is so bad that their users need to search for help in Google a lot.

Pleeeeeeeeeeease, stop linking to polls.

afonic
September 16th, 2007, 03:52 PM
I wanted to add that I find weird that some users urge to prove that the distro they use is the best / most popular / easiest whatever. Just chill out and enjoy your favorite one!

Midwest-Linux
September 16th, 2007, 05:34 PM
So PCLinuxOS Magazine was correct!!! Ubuntu is so bad that their users need to search for help in Google a lot.

Pleeeeeeeeeeease, stop linking to polls.

Ubuntu is very easy to install and use, even installed it on a Mac. Its not the best, I think Linux Mint Cassandra is tied with Freespire 2.0. Then again Linux Mint Cassandra is based on Ubuntu. Some will disagree that Freespire is not truely free as its tied with Linspire which is = Microsoft.




I would rate Puppy linux way up there, except after several tries installing it...I had no success. Though it works fine from the CD. The install instructions online says I need MS Dos 6.22. great...where do I get MS Dos 6.22 from? And why need Dos for a linux system. DSL ranks up there too, but I cannot install that either..... Two outstanding linux OS...Puppy and DSL, and can't install either.


ANY linux system that you use, is a step in the right direction.

kirios
September 16th, 2007, 06:30 PM
Are you one and the same person?
Well, I watched a server yesterday clock about 200 votes per hour for Mandriva, until it clocked past 5400 (I monitored it from about 3600). If it can be done here, it can be done anywhere and by anybody with the right access and knowhow!
Yes, that was me. I was kind of surprised that Mandriva suddenly had so many votes as the last time I checked it was less than 1000.

Lenovo's poll has at least one fatal flaw: I voted 3 times, including a vote for Linux from Scratch (!), which means the 50,000 votes polled so far could quite easily be the work of just a couple of thousand or so users. :)

RAV TUX
September 16th, 2007, 06:48 PM
This image speaks for itself:

http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=43625&d=1189964793 (http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C++pclinuxos&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0)
an image says a thousand words.

greymongrey
September 16th, 2007, 07:24 PM
Well, DW is a good site and I use it a lot to research distros. However, just because I click on a link doesn't mean I have installed it. So all DW can show is the interest in a OS. Common sense will tell you that Ubuntu and Fedora and Suse and Debian have a much larger install base than all the rest of the distros on DW combined. Most commercial based distros will have a larger base.

I have both PCLOS and Ubuntu. I find PCLOS easier to setup up. However, you can find more stuff for Ubuntu. I'm not sure either one of them is the best OS at the moment. I'm playing with Wolvix and I'm really impressed. Of the three, Wolvix wins by a mile. I'll be willing to bet there is other OSes on the DW list that are as good or maybe even better than the ones in the Top 5, yet they get little publicity.

Just my 2 cents, anyway.

amj
September 16th, 2007, 08:05 PM
Folks,

It's interesting to read the PCLOS FUD over here, which mirrors the Ubuntu FUD over in the PCLOS forums (by an unfortunately vocal minority).

And just as many people over here discussing the hideous KDE, the same way PCLOS fans dislike Gnome.

However, most of the folks over on the PCLOS camp are quiet fans of multiple distros, including Ubuntu and/or its variants/spin-offs.

Personally, I have PCLOS and Mint installed on my laptop. I tried a test version of Gutsy and liked what I saw. Once the released version comes out, I'm going to give a go, and decide whether to stick with Mint or move to Ubuntu (only have room for 2 distros on my drive, and I want one KDE and one Gnome).

If only all camps could put as much effort into moving linux as a whole forward as we do putting each other down, we'd be so much farther ahead.

Cheers,
AJ

greymongrey
September 17th, 2007, 01:11 AM
If only all camps could put as much effort into moving linux as a whole forward as we do putting each other down, we'd be so much farther ahead.


Ain't that the truth.

I have three OSes installed, PCLOS for KDE, Ubuntu for Gnome and Wolvix for Xfce. Whatever I'm in the mood for that day is what I use. I prefer Xfce the most and Gnome the least. However they all have their good points and their bad points.

Just use whatever makes you happy and let everyone else do the same.

angryfirelord
September 17th, 2007, 01:14 AM
So PCLinuxOS Magazine was correct!!! Ubuntu is so bad that their users need to search for help in Google a lot.

Pleeeeeeeeeeease, stop linking to polls.
...in order to cover up their Distrowatch inflation (kidding). :) Anyway, while the Control Center is nice, I've noticed that the PCLOS community (including some of the mods) take part in distro bashing and the forum doesn't seem to be professional. Also, I wouldn't take advice from a biased PCLOS user about other distros.

& since you failed to read my link, I wasn't pointing to a poll, I was showing that Ubuntu is searched a heck of a lot more often than PCLinuxOS is.

kirios
September 17th, 2007, 01:18 AM
This image speaks for itself:
an image says a thousand words.
It shows that 'ubuntu' is a much more common search query than 'pclinuxos'.
It doesn't tell you anything about usage statistics.

Distrowatch had an interesting comparison of their server log analysis and the Page Hit Ranking a couple of weeks ago.
http://http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070827#feature (http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070827#feature)

Sorry, Distrowatch seems to be inaccessible at the moment.
http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/20081

Is this really just a coincidence?

chrisch
September 17th, 2007, 01:22 AM
There is no question PCLinux is a fabulous OS. And of course there is no doubt that Ubuntu is the same. As far as OS's go they are neck and neck. The one thing that puts Ubuntu above everyone else is the community support, it is just fabulous. Keep up the great work all!

RAV TUX
September 17th, 2007, 03:27 AM
It shows that 'ubuntu' is a much more common search query than 'pclinuxos'.
It doesn't tell you anything about usage statistics.



Neither does DW, DW tells you nothing and the rating on DW means nothing. It is for entertainment purposes only.

kirios
September 17th, 2007, 03:41 AM
Neither does DW, DW tells you nothing and the rating on DW means nothing. It is for entertainment purposes only.
Umm... I think I've already said all I want to about Distrowatch's ranking a little earlier in this thread.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3373072&postcount=185
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3268416&postcount=85
And in another thread too:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3268474&postcount=4

Andrewie
September 17th, 2007, 03:47 AM
why does this matter? Ubuntu being second place on distowatch is going to effect the distro at all, it'll still be the same Ubuntu that you know and love.

kirios
September 17th, 2007, 04:36 AM
why does this matter?
It doesn't. :)

By the way, Distrowatch is still down.
http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/20081

kazuya
September 17th, 2007, 02:43 PM
It really doesn't. I always try other distros, but end up back in Ubuntu aka Mint. It is feature packed. All of the distros are great, depending on your level of knowledge on that distro. Ubuntu's greatness stems from familiarity, easy to use and get help on. However, anyone who is proficient at using Ubuntu for a period of time can essentially master another linux distro and have better or less enjoyment...

The rankings do not tell the true story, but they give some direction to the truth. Distrowatch is a very useful website. It is packed full with new innovations and open source information..

Ubuntu's greatness over most stems from its community. I have heard a newbie once say that on certain complicated tasks, he asks folks on the gentoo forum.. Truth is you have knowledgeable folks on all the platforms. The whole linux community is alive with information to help their users..

greymongrey
September 17th, 2007, 04:10 PM
We sure have a lot of posts about something that doesn't matter. :)

kirios
September 17th, 2007, 04:23 PM
We sure have a lot of posts about something that doesn't matter. :)
Yes! :)

This one's a bit worrying though:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3294318&postcount=1

angryfirelord
September 17th, 2007, 05:35 PM
It's not the Distrowatch ratings that bug me, it's the PCLOS community's attitude.

http://mag.mypclinuxos.com/html/Issues/200709/page02.html

Ubuntu 7.04:

Well, what to say about this distro? It's hyped that it's for the users who are switching from Windows. I gave it to my users for a day and here is how they responded. One guy told me that, "If this is what best Linux is, I'll never move from Windows because its not as user friendly as PCLOS & Dreamlinux". All ten testers reported that it is running slower than Windows on the same machines. It doesn't support any proprietary tools or software out of the box and for many things you need to know the Linux command, it expects you to go back to the command line and do some tweaking there. The experiences of my users were not good, they said it's not at all user friendly and it's slower and doesn't act like Windows at any point. It's not a replacement of Windows, they said. "It could be a stable OS but I'll never move to Ubuntu even if it's the only distro in the Linux world." They also said that they would prefer "Mandriva One over Ubuntu 7.04 because it's at least faster and it doesn't expect users to go to the command line."
So the overall review of Ubuntu was the worst from new user point of view and PCLOS wins here. My users say that in their opinion, Ubuntu is overhyped and that it's not for the normal user. It is for those users who know Linux very well and have high end systems with at least 1 gig ram.
That's the kind of attitude that turned me away from PCLinuxOS. Most people whom I've talked to & use Ubuntu as a Windows alternative have been pleased with it, even if they have to drop to the CLI once in a while. Yes Ubuntu isn't perfect, but it's a damn good distro.

GoodPanos
September 17th, 2007, 06:59 PM
I can't believe PCLinuxOS surpassed Ubuntu on distrowatch.com??!! :?

I've tried PCLinuxOS a few times on my Dell laptops and it just doesn't work right of the back. I always have to hit the forums to get almost everything working. Where as with Ubuntu it just works!! So I'm puzzled with distrowatch's results.

karellen
September 17th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Ubuntu:
the community: ++1
corporation support ( canonical): ++1
shipit: ++++++1

PCLinuxOS:
the community: 0
corporation support: Texstar
and I won't mention shipit

right now, there are 44 users and 45 guests on PCLinuxOS forum...
and here on ubuntuforums there are 859 members and 5679 guests
My point is being made, I hope

afonic
September 17th, 2007, 08:14 PM
pff, someone lock those threads.

AdamWill
September 17th, 2007, 09:02 PM
In my first post on poll stats in this thread, Mandriva had approx 3600 votes, and now there are 4200 votes ( approx 600 in about 3 hrs).
# Mandriva1
3597 - 8% of all votes

Current stats
# Mandriva1
4199 - 9% of all votes

I DO NOT believe this is a normal vote but that it is an automated script!
OBSERVE and see for yourselves!

Probably this is how PCLOS DW PHD was accomplished as well?

Food for thought!

Sorry to burst your paranoia bubble, but it's nothing like that. It's just that we (Mandriva) noticed this poll and sent out an email to our customer mailing list over the weekend, asking people to vote for Mandriva in the poll if they felt they'd like to see Mandriva on Lenovo systems. Given that there's a few hundred thousand people on our customer mailing list, it's not surprising that this resulted in rather a big increase in our votes. :)

AdamWill
September 17th, 2007, 09:11 PM
should've mentioned, if you check the comments, you'll see a big surge of Mandriva-related comments from obviously different users at the same time as the Mandriva vote surge, which wouldn't happen if it was a script.

ohan
September 17th, 2007, 11:12 PM
In my first post on poll stats in this thread, Mandriva had approx 3600 votes, and now there are 4200 votes ( approx 600 in about 3 hrs).
# Mandriva1
3597 - 8% of all votes

Current stats
# Mandriva
8391 - 16% of all votes

I DO NOT believe this is a normal vote but that it is an automated script!
OBSERVE and see for yourselves!

Probably this is how PCLOS DW PHD was accomplished as well?

Food for thought!

Lol !!! Mandriva doesn't use automated script, they have a community, like ubuntu...but PCLOS on dw...See the difference between Lenovo et DW for PCLOS...there is a sinkhole

afonic
September 18th, 2007, 12:00 AM
Instead of keep saying and saying and saying about PCLinuxOS PLEASE note that Ubuntu is falling, not just PCLOS rising. Ubuntu used to be at 2600+ hits and now it is at 2500 and if you see last 30 days 2200 and falling.

So realize that these number change whether a new distro release is out as around that date the attention is maximized.

ALSO check the data from 2004 and see that PCLinuxOS is ABOVE Ubuntu, so do not say that it is the "new" distro, it is as old as Ubuntu at least.

angryfirelord
September 18th, 2007, 01:08 AM
Once Gusty is released, I'm sure we'll see Ubuntu's numbers surge rapidly again. I find that a month before a distro's release date is usually the time when the numbers are the lowest.

newmaxus123
September 18th, 2007, 03:17 AM
I would say

bang (http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+pclinuxos)

I thinq something wrong with distrowatch.

justin whitaker
September 18th, 2007, 03:28 AM
If only all camps could put as much effort into moving linux as a whole forward as we do putting each other down, we'd be so much farther ahead.

QFT.

Look, on a very basic level, a Linux distribution is a kernel, a console, the GNU toolchain, Xorg, and some window manager or desktop environment.

Other than that, they mainly differ in subtle ways (package management, tweaks here and there), but really, they are more similarities than differences.

Lets all focus on moving the chains instead of taking each other down.

MissionImpossible
September 18th, 2007, 07:57 AM
Sorry to burst your paranoia bubble, but it's nothing like that. It's just that we (Mandriva) noticed this poll and sent out an email to our customer mailing list over the weekend, asking people to vote for Mandriva in the poll if they felt they'd like to see Mandriva on Lenovo systems. Given that there's a few hundred thousand people on our customer mailing list, it's not surprising that this resulted in rather a big increase in our votes. :)

See below!


Lol !!! Mandriva doesn't use automated script, they have a community, like ubuntu...but PCLOS on dw...See the difference between Lenovo et DW for PCLOS...there is a sinkhole

Well, I never said it was anything official from Mandriva. But someone, I am convinced, was clocking 3 hits per min for well over 10 hrs! 3x 60 = 180
Anything over 180 was real people responding to the call to vote, IMO.

I kept an eye out for the stats, though I did not record everything on an hour by hour basis, the average was roughly 200 hits per hour. That average is too consistent for coincidence!!!!

sat 15 sept (aest)
3850 (4:20 pm) ---> + 668 (approx 222 per hour) 4518 (7:20 pm) ----> + 367 (approx 183 per hour) 4885 (9:20 pm) ----> + 190 5075 (10:20 pm)---> + 207 5280 (11:20 pm)


Yes, I would agree with you that Mandriva has a good community, and I would NOT mind at all if they get the contract.

As for PCLOS, to me, they are just noise pollution on the various Linux forums!
An example of this is this self-confessed polluter:


For over a year now i have been shamelessly (http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=58&topic=31577.msg242712#msg242712) pumping PCLinuxOS on various forums every chance i get.

kirios
September 18th, 2007, 09:44 AM
Well, I never said it was anything official from Mandriva. But someone, I am convinced, was clocking 3 hits per min for well over 10 hrs! 3x 60 = 180
Anything over 180 was real people responding to the call to vote, IMO.

I kept an eye out for the stats, though I did not record everything on an hour by hour basis, the average was roughly 200 hits per hour. That average is too consistent for coincidence!!!!
Let's review the situation:

Ubuntu clocks 8000+ votes over the first 3 days (September 7th -9th). No one on this forum tries to analyze the voting pattern.

Mandriva logs 7000+ votes over a similar period (September 14th-16th). Someone on this forum immediately cries foul.

:lolflag:

mattr01
September 18th, 2007, 02:08 PM
I have tried PCLinuxOS, but never really liked it.


As much as Ubuntu works for me and as much as I love and promote it, I really hate it when people use the word "Ubuntu" on Digg.com just to get to the front page. Programs are not released specifically for Ubuntu -- they are available for ALL Linux users. Procedures may be what you did in Ubuntu, but you can adapt them to other distributions if you know your way around a distribution.

I will go out and say that openSUSE is my second favorite distribution.

I am a regular digg submitter, and none of my stuff is put onto the front page. Unless it's from ars, engadget or some bigshot media company, it's hopeless.

buntunub
September 18th, 2007, 02:21 PM
PCLos is very far from being the "best" KDE distro out there. In point of fact there are dozens of distro's that fit into that category -- Sabayon, OpenSuSe, Arch, Kubuntu, SimplyMepis.. And thats just to name a few! Every single one of the aforementioned has PCLos beat in a good many functional area's, each of which are very important to their userbase. I can safely say now that I will never use PCLos strictly because of the negatively aggressive fanboy'ism that Texstar and the ripper gang seem to encourage (or at least dont actively discourage). I also find that PHR on DW to be highly suspect as well. Fact is, PCLos is nothing more than Mandriva with the bugs worked out, on a much older kernel patchset... The question, as always, remains... Why use PCLos, when you can use the real thing?.. Namely, Mandriva.

tak1150
September 18th, 2007, 03:02 PM
Google Trends (a tool from Google Labs) charts how often a search term is entered.
http://www.google.com/trends?q=PCLinuxOS%2C+Ubuntu&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all
Maybe PCLinuxOS isn't as popular as it appears to be on Distrowatch.

Very good point, denver38. I think the way you took the stats is more accurate than Distrowatch method.

When I am interested in something, I usually don't go to THE website very often, but I search for the keyword often on Google. Two thumbs up for the above post!

igknighted
September 18th, 2007, 04:29 PM
PCLos is very far from being the "best" KDE distro out there. In point of fact there are dozens of distro's that fit into that category -- Sabayon, OpenSuSe, Arch, Kubuntu, SimplyMepis.. And thats just to name a few! Every single one of the aforementioned has PCLos beat in a good many functional area's, each of which are very important to their userbase. I can safely say now that I will never use PCLos strictly because of the negatively aggressive fanboy'ism that Texstar and the ripper gang seem to encourage (or at least dont actively discourage). I also find that PHR on DW to be highly suspect as well. Fact is, PCLos is nothing more than Mandriva with the bugs worked out, on a much older kernel patchset... The question, as always, remains... Why use PCLos, when you can use the real thing?.. Namely, Mandriva.

Good point about the devs not doing anything to discourage this action, but I would not be so quick to throw specific people under the bus. There are a lot of things going on behind the scenes at PCLOS that the public is hardly (if at all) aware of.

Also, I'm not sure if it is a "bigs worked out" Mandriva, rather than a "re-dressed up to appeal to a different audience" Mandriva. Not that that is a bad thing, just that Mandriva itself isn't really buggy, it's just that it isn't targeted at the same users as PCLOS.

caucuz
September 18th, 2007, 09:44 PM
:) PCLinuxOS has overtaken the Isle of Man distro in hit rates, that generally indicates more people are installing PCLinuxOS than any other distro, and the gap is increasing.

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5743/untitlediu5.jpg

BDNiner
September 18th, 2007, 09:46 PM
how are these rankings determined? what is the web site where i can check this out?

PriceChild
September 18th, 2007, 09:48 PM
that generally indicates more people are installing PCLinuxOS than any other distro, and the gap is increasing.Do you know how those rankings are determined?

how are these rankings determined? what is the web site where i can check this out?distrowatch.com

Beau D.
September 18th, 2007, 09:50 PM
Clearly a troll post. If you base popularity or The amount of installed systems based on Distrowatch..than I am sorry. How about you check out google. And feel free to join in with something CONSTRUCTIVE. Notifying mods.

Beau D.

justin whitaker
September 18th, 2007, 09:51 PM
Ladislav says that the hit rates on his site are just for fun and are indicative of absolutely nothing.

Dropbear
September 18th, 2007, 09:51 PM
All it indicates is that PCLinuxOs is getting more hits per day than Ubuntu.

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070827#feature

igknighted
September 18th, 2007, 09:53 PM
Clearly a troll post. If you base popularity or The amount of installed systems based on Distrowatch..than I am sorry. How about you check out google. And feel free to join in with something CONSTRUCTIVE. Notifying mods.

Beau D.

Dude, chill out. He didn't make any judgements, just an observation that the distro that has been #1 for over two years has been overtaken. Ubuntu users love to make a huge deal of how long they have been #1 in the DW rankings, so I think it is a news item of considerable importance.

Then again, there are already several threads on this as it happened sometime around the middle of last week, so it is old news.

pluviosity
September 18th, 2007, 09:56 PM
Interesting:

If you google "linux," the first distro's page listed is Ubuntu's. I don't think PCLOS's is listed in the first 100 results :popcorn:

Gremlinzzz
September 18th, 2007, 10:07 PM
I started out using vectorlinux i didn't care who was most downloaded then and now that i use ubuntu i still don't care.
:guitar:

Dropbear
September 18th, 2007, 10:15 PM
I started out using vectorlinux i didn't care who was most downloaded then and now that i use ubuntu i still don't care.
:guitar:

If number of users is your reason for choosing an OS may as well use windows

greymongrey
September 18th, 2007, 10:18 PM
:) PCLinuxOS has overtaken the Isle of Man distro in hit rates, that generally indicates more people are installing PCLinuxOS than any other distro, and the gap is increasing.


As has been stated, this isn't about downloads but clicks. More people are interested in PCLOS. I go to DW a lot and click on a lot of distro pages but I don't download anything.

PCLOS is a good distro and deserves the attention. I have a feeling that when Gutsy arrives that Ubuntu will once again be on top.

Nano Geek
September 18th, 2007, 10:28 PM
As has been stated, this isn't about downloads but clicks. More people are interested in PCLOS. I go to DW a lot and click on a lot of distro pages but I don't download anything.

PCLOS is a good distro and deserves the attention. I have a feeling that when Gutsy arrives that Ubuntu will once again be on top.I find it interesting though that PCLOS as been rising constantly when every other disto has been falling.
Something funny is going on there.

Lord Illidan
September 18th, 2007, 10:35 PM
The same thing happened to Ubuntu when it got popular. I haven't used PCLOS but I hear it is a good distro, so kudos to them.

starcraft.man
September 18th, 2007, 10:38 PM
Not this again... Is popularity all some people think about? Not that distrowatch is even a real measure of that, it's just page clicks. It doesn't show user install base, downloads, reason for staying/departure or any other meaningful barometer. Just people who click the page...

karellen
September 18th, 2007, 10:41 PM
:) PCLinuxOS has overtaken the Isle of Man distro in hit rates, that generally indicates more people are installing PCLinuxOS than any other distro, and the gap is increasing.

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5743/untitlediu5.jpg

oh god, not another thread on this topic...](*,)

K.Mandla
September 18th, 2007, 11:28 PM
Please do not feed the first-post new-user inflammatory troll.

Moving to Other OS Talk.

me1on
September 18th, 2007, 11:30 PM
Google Trends (http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+pclinuxos) says otherwise. But why does it matter, anyways? If more people like PCLinuxOS better than Ubuntu, who cares? Just use what you like, and let others do the same.

K.Mandla
September 18th, 2007, 11:31 PM
Threads merged. Yawn.

angryfirelord
September 19th, 2007, 04:20 AM
Google Trends (http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+pclinuxos) says otherwise. But why does it matter, anyways? If more people like PCLinuxOS better than Ubuntu, who cares? Just use what you like, and let others do the same.
Exactly. I think the goal here is to try to get people to come out of the dark side, err I mean, Vista. ;)

wolfen69
September 19th, 2007, 07:38 AM
people need to shut the F up. who cares? the cream always rises to the top.

karellen
September 19th, 2007, 08:56 AM
I can't believe there's a 24-pages long thread about this matter...:confused:

MissionImpossible
September 19th, 2007, 09:10 AM
I can't believe there's a 24-pages long thread about this matter...:confused:
There is not such a long thread but a whole number of related (at least as far as the forum mods are concerned) ones that are just added (fused) together.

They, the mods, don't think its very cool to keep this subject (Ubuntu vs Pclos) running in various threads.

Officer Dibble
September 19th, 2007, 09:33 AM
I haven't read all 24 pages of this thread, but I know I'm not in it yet... ;)

Anyway, the amount of 'hits', which is essentially the amount of people who have simply visited a site, cannot be a sure guide to how many people are actually installing it and keeping it.

It's like saying that Windows is the best OS out there because so many people have it. As an experienced user of Windows over many many years I have no insecurity in my knowledge that Windows is not the best there is, it has been the most accessible, but not the best.

As the general populace become more computer savvy, their tastes are eventually going to coordinate with integrity and quality, which is what Linux has.

This word Distro... I am starting to dislike the context it is being placed in. Why not include an 's' with that word in keeping with the diversity of Linux? "Distro's" is more appropriate as it promotes the variety of choice that exists in the Linux community - something nonexistent in the Windows community.

What we should be discussing is how many Linux users there are and work towards increasing that base because of the opportunities that brings to all... all family's are of different sizes, so what! All distro's have different numbers of users, so what!! Linux is still better than Windows... :)

chameleonkid
September 20th, 2007, 12:22 AM
This word Distro... I am starting to dislike the context it is being placed in. Why not include an 's' with that word in keeping with the diversity of Linux? "Distro's" is more appropriate as it promotes the variety of choice that exists in the Linux community - something nonexistent in the Windows community.

What we should be discussing is how many Linux users there are and work towards increasing that base because of the opportunities that brings to all... all family's are of different sizes, so what! All distro's have different numbers of users, so what!! Linux is still better than Windows... :)

"Distro's" is possessive man. It should be Distros.

ruibernardo
September 20th, 2007, 12:26 AM
Yep, this thread is long, and I didn't read it all, but clearly Distrowatch is not a reference to the most popular distro in the last 6 month.

Me1on referred the Google trends graphic between PClinuxOS and Ubuntu (http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+pclinuxos). PClinuxOS is only a flat line, compared to Ubuntu...

If Google Trend is a better reference (although it wont be the definitive reference because it is almost impossible to have a definitive reference), when we compare Windows vs Ubuntu, Vista vs Ubuntu or Windows vs Linux (just add them to the graph, you may even add other distros too), the conclusion that Linux/Ubuntu might be underrated in the O.S. share market comes to my mind. Ubuntu is the most popular GNU/Linux for sure.

On the other side, this is only graphics showing the most searched topics in Google, so this is all relative.

Maybe the fact that PClinuxOS comes with "illegal" codecs and propriety software (another discussion here), makes people search less for them in Google.

Anyway, I think that PClinuxOS is overrated in Distrowatch and Ubuntu might be underrated on the O.S. share market. Maybe another reference might help to clarify this subject.

Dimitriid
September 20th, 2007, 04:13 AM
One should always appreciate healthy competition.

This is almost never going to happen. "Healthy" competition is just wishful thinking at best, but more likely bourgeoisie doctrine at its worst: in the end competing only detriments from the overall success of Linux as a whole.

Quite simply there is no need to "compete" as each Distro has specific goals aimed at developing specific features and accomplish different things with the kernel and the common appz. If a Distribution specifically aims to not really offer something different, at least on paper ( which means that at least strives to contribute ) then I do not care much for their contribution.

This is why people often needs to force people into cooperating with the different GNU licenses. Because those simply looking for "healthy competition" are not really interested in the advancement of software development, they are only interested in being the ones to catch the personal glory or the cash if they are selling their distro.. You can put whatever mask you want on it, if you're not striving to contribute to open software you're only being a destructive force causing division and deviating people from real advancements by seeking something other than the advancement of open software as a whole.

Whoever takes the attitudes described on this page, whatever the distribution he contributes to or supports, is fundamentally damaging for open software.

garenasix
September 20th, 2007, 04:34 AM
You can't just dismiss something because it says something you don't want to hear. The truth is, he has a point. Ubuntu is slower than windows and other distros out of the box... and it doesn't run well with less than 1GB RAM.


im using ubuntu 7.04 on a compaq deskpro 450 mHz with 256 mb RAM i also have windows XP on the same type box and can say for a fact that the ubuntu box boots and apps open faster then the bloted XP box

ubuntu found all hardware out of the box i had to update the bios for it to shutdown without hiting the kill switch to shut off the box and i had to uum use the evil command line and do some tweaking to get all media to work other then that i feel it runs as good if not better then XP or PCLinuxOS that i have ran on the same box befor

ooh and as for PCLinuxOS it didnot find my sound card out of the box ubuntu did i also got more media to work with ubuntu but there was some use of that evil nasty command line to do that oooh typing in a box and doing some cut and paste codes that i found in this very usefull fourm was soo tramatizing :)

ooooooh god that evil command line and root terminal :)

K.Mandla
September 20th, 2007, 04:38 AM
Since this has become a discussion of the relative merits of one distro over another, I'm moving it to Other OS Talk.