OS X and Linux and IOS

[Billy_Martinez]

There's been something that's been bothering me about OS X and Linux. Apple has been stealing a lot from IOS and OS X over the years, and for some reason no one seems to be saying anything about it. People always make a big deal about Microsoft stealing from people, but when Apple steals it's ok. For example, in OS 10.5 (Leopard) Apple introduced spaces into its OS. Spaces was created by Linux developers way before Apple started using it. If I was part of the team that developed spaces, I would have sued the hell out of Apple because if I made something that was meant to be used for free and then someone else took that thing and made money off of it, I would feel entitled to the money that made from that my product. How does someone get away with making money off of something that was meant to be free?

Apple took Samsung to court and won the law suit because they were able to convince the jury that Samsung stole their design for the iPhone. Ok, what about the latest releases and features of iOS? iOS looks a lot more like android now. Apple came out with the cartoonish design for its icons which android had first. Android phones had their own version of Apple Pay way before Apple implemented that feature into its phones. Also, you can't argue that Apple doesn't charge its customers for the new versions of their operating systems that are released because yes its free to upgrade to the new versions of OS X and iOS, but its only free to people that have Apple products. The company charges a lot of money for it's hardware and that cost covers the price of the hardware and the OS.

[Billy_Martinez]

Another thing that i would like to add is that Mission Control looks a lot like Gnome. The developers of Gnome should take apple to court and show the jury how similar Gnome is to Mission Control and get money for their creation. The Linux community has it all wrong. For some reason on Youtube I keep seeing all of the videos that are comparing Linux to Windows, as if Windows is the top competitor of Linux. Believe it or not Apple is the Linux communities biggest competitor because Apple is taking open source software and making money off of it when it was meant to be free. Linux could grow and become the most used OS on Desktops and Laptops, but Apple is blocking that from happening by stealing from the Linux community.

[marcus_s]

Good artists borrow. Great artists steal! -- Steve Jobs

That should tell you about the philosophy Apple is using. But this is not specific to Apple. Everyone's been doing this, and it shows.

Evidently, there are some features "inspired" from Linux, or more specifically, Compiz features. "Spaces" in OS X Tiger 10.4 was heavily inspired by Compiz' desktop wall - without wobbly windows. The list is endless. Fact however remains that most features seen in OS X today are not invented by Apple - it's just their take on it.

Remember that Apple bought NeXT Computer to acquire the source code of NeXTSTEP, and built OS X from it. So every Mac in existence is still Steve Jobs' own creation (NeXTSTEP. Ever wonder about all the "NS..." in their classes? Yeah). So in essence a Mac runs the super-advanced version of NeXTSTEP. OS X therefore wasn't stolen... but it in a way it was.

As mentioned before, "Mission Control" does look like the "Dash" in GNOME 3. But also, Windows 10's semi-translucent bar looks a bit like a black bar from some desktop environment with a black theme. So everybody's taking from everybody these days. No one admits it, everybody loses their minds over it... so what?

There isn't much you can do about it... as legally speaking there are visual differences. This alone is enough not to sue someone - although the features look similar. This is the problem. Oh well.

[Billy_Martinez]

That should tell you about the philosophy Apple is using. But this is not specific to Apple. Everyone's been doing this, and it shows.

Evidently, there are some features "inspired" from Linux, or more specifically, Compiz features. "Spaces" in OS X Tiger 10.4 was heavily inspired by Compiz' desktop wall - without wobbly windows. The list is endless. Fact however remains that most features seen in OS X today are not invented by Apple - it's just their take on it.

Remember that Apple bought NeXT Computer to acquire the source code of NeXTSTEP, and built OS X from it. So every Mac in existence is still Steve Jobs' own creation (NeXTSTEP. Ever wonder about all the "NS..." in their classes? Yeah). So in essence a Mac runs the super-advanced version of NeXTSTEP. OS X therefore wasn't stolen... but it in a way it was.

As mentioned before, "Mission Control" does look like the "Dash" in GNOME 3. But also, Windows 10's semi-translucent bar looks a bit like a black bar from some desktop environment with a black theme. So everybody's taking from everybody these days. No one admits it, everybody loses their minds over it... so what?

There isn't much you can do about it... as legally speaking there are visual differences. This alone is enough not to sue someone - although the features look similar. This is the problem. Oh well.

Yea but Apple loves to sue people for stealing from them even though they steal too. I never hear about people taking Apple to court even though they should.

[Billy_Martinez]

So everybody's taking from everybody these days. No one admits it, everybody loses their minds over it... so what?
If Apple never took people to court for stealing, then I wouldn't care. But Apple loves to sue people for everything.

[grahammechanical]

I think that you will find that Apple and Samsung have been taking each other to court and making claims and counter-claims left, right and centre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electronics_Co.

In my opinion this matter has been made worse by the US authorities granting software patients based on claims of originality that are very insubstantial and failing to take into consideration prior work by others.

The situation is such that if you do not patent your ideas then someone like the Apple Corporation will come along and file for a patent for it and the US authorities will grant it. This danger was pointed out in computer journals many years ago.

Actually, there are times when the small (in comparison with Apple's financial resources) organisation takes Apple to court and wins.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34559232

Steve Jobs even stole the name of his company from the Beatles and the idea for a logo and solved the problem by buying the trademark.

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/apple-now-officially-owns-beatles-apple-corps-logo/

Regards.

[Billy_Martinez]

I think that you will find that Apple and Samsung have been taking each other to court and making claims and counter-claims left, right and centre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electronics_Co.

In my opinion this matter has been made worse by the US authorities granting software patients based on claims of originality that are very insubstantial and failing to take into consideration prior work by others.

The situation is such that if you do not patent your ideas then someone like the Apple Corporation will come along and file for a patent for it and the US authorities will grant it. This danger was pointed out in computer journals many years ago.

Actually, there are times when the small (in comparison with Apple's financial resources) organisation takes Apple to court and wins.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34559232

Steve Jobs even stole the name of his company from the Beatles and the idea for a logo and solved the problem by buying the trademark.

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/apple-now-officially-owns-beatles-apple-corps-logo/

Regards.

Bill Gates was the first guy to successfully market an operating system that worked on different types of hardware. The personal computer wouldn't exist today if it wasn't for Microsoft. You have two companies, one company forces you to use their hardware and the other one lets you choose your own so you have freedom with the second company. This is the reason why I don't understand the hate for Microsoft in the Linux community. Every time I search on youtube for videos on Linux distros I keep on running into these "Why I left Microsoft" videos or "Ubuntu vs Windows" videos. I see Apple as being more of a threat to Linux because they practice protectionism when it comes to their products. If Bill Gates never existed the personal computing world would look totally different today. Like I've said before the majority of the stuff that Apple has come out with has been copied from Linux and none of the people that developed that software ever got a dime from Apple for their creations and that's sad.

[buzzingrobot]

Pretty much the entire notion of open source is that software is derivative. Everyone copies everyone else. FOSS just means you don't need to start from scratch. ;)

Things like virtual workspaces weren't original to Linux. Even if they, or anything else, were entirely original to Linux, who would have legal standing to sue? How could you demonstrate financial loss as a result of someone "stealing" your idea for something if you weren't selling a product based on that idea and any of your code implementing that idea was released under the GPL or similar license?

Developers who want to sell their code ought to avoid writing FOSS code.

For that matter, pretty much everything in that kernel Torvalds wrote more than 20 years ago existed in Unix. That's why he wrote the thing, i.e., to have his own Unix to play with. So who wrote a Unix kernel that didn't use Unix code.

Apple, Samsung, Google, etc., typically sue each other over patent claims. It's their way of stiff arming the competition.

[mystics]

How could you demonstrate financial loss as a result of someone "stealing" your idea for something if you weren't selling a product based on that idea and any of your code implementing that idea was released under the GPL or similar license?

Not to mention, I don't think there's been a lot of patents filed on these things. A lot of what Apple and Microsoft use to base their court cases off of is patent violations.


Apple, Samsung, Google, etc., typically sue each other over patent claims. It's their way of stiff arming the competition.

Part of it is stiff arming, but I think part of it just comes down to working in a broken patent system. If you need to have questionable patents as protection against patent trolls, and if you need to protect those questionable patents to discourage more serious (and legitimate) patent infringement, then questionable patent lawsuits are bound to happen.

[bruakerche]

Remember that Apple bought NeXT Computer to acquire the source code of NeXTSTEP, and built OS X from it. So every Mac in existence is still Steve Jobs' own creation (NeXTSTEP. Ever wonder about all the "NS..." in their classes? Yeah). So in essence a Mac runs the super-advanced version of NeXTSTEP. OS X therefore wasn't stolen... but it in a way it was.

[shantiq]

yes shame money is involved in all of this and lawsuits and the like; shame we can't all see this as humans trying to advance to get the best most performant computers and OS efficiency FOR MANKIND and not get bogged down in who started it nananana ... but hey this is the state of play we are in .... I LOATHE the way in which Apple has always "locked" its hardware and software really to keep the flock addicted to their wares; kind of a pusher way to relate to the clientele ....
...but and they always have had the best hardware the most solid ... have they stolen free open source ideas and licensed them yea probably ... did Gates steal from Apple to get started yes and well-documented it is ... see the film Jobs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_(film)) [excellent by the way]

Truth is we really do not operate in a vacuum; but to knowingly make money from someone else's labour sweat and inspiration is really low-consciousness behaviour; personally I am an artist and in Art this debate has been going on a long time ... who copies who and who is original ... This debate will not go away in Art or Computing ... but and I agree here sometimes it is so blatant maybe courts are needed


PS running 14.04 on a ten year-old Macbook and God is this a good way to extent the life of an old Mac

[mystics]

I LOATHE the way in which Apple has always "locked" its hardware and software really to keep the flock addicted to their wares; kind of a pusher way to relate to the clientele ....

To some extent, I think this gets over-exaggerated. I recently watched a video of someone who wanted to switch over to using Microsoft hardware but felt he couldn't because all of his stuff, mostly music, was stuck in the Apple ecosystem. While not an uncommon complaint, it always confuses me. Not only is iTunes (and iCloud) available on Windows, it's also possible to download everything from those two to a Mac (or Windows) and move the files to another ecosystem. Sure, Apple doesn't make that as easy as it should be, but the primary loss would just come with the apps, which comes with any OS switch. I, personally, have bought quite a few songs on iTunes that are now on my Google Play Music.

Really, a lot of it comes down to being careful and understanding routes to get out of an ecosystem. I've never jumped into an ecosystem without a plan to get out if/when something better comes along, and that continues to my current use of a lot of Google stuff. Sure, I will criticize Apple for not making it as easy as it should be, but I think a lot of the people who complain about being tied down really need to just do their research on how to make a switch.


Truth is we really do not operate in a vacuum; but to knowingly make money from someone else's labour sweat and inspiration is really low-consciousness behaviour; personally I am an artist and in Art this debate has been going on a long time ... who copies who and who is original ... This debate will not go away in Art or Computing ... but and I agree here sometimes it is so blatant maybe courts are needed

There's also an element of how people can be working on the same idea at the same time, turning it into an arms race of who finishes first. A recent example would be Apple and Google bringing health-related stuff to iOS and Android. Apple announced new health features and APIs for iOS 8 about three weeks before Google made the same announcement for Android 5.0. Predictably, all the Apple fans jumped on Google for stealing the idea from Apple. Of course, the more likely scenario is that both Apple and Google had been working on those features for quite some time, and it just happened that Apple had its tech conference before Google, so they got to announce it first.

So at times, I don't think it is a matter of people stealing from each other. It is a matter of many people having similar ideas around the same time given the current consumer wants and needs.

[shantiq]

yes mystic


There's also an element of how people can be working on the same idea at the same time, turning it into an arms race of who finishes first. A recent example would be Apple and Google bringing health-related stuff to iOS and Android. Apple announced new health features and APIs for iOS 8 about three weeks before Google made the same announcement for Android 5.0. Predictably, all the Apple fans jumped on Google for stealing the idea from Apple. Of course, the more likely scenario is that both Apple and Google had been working on those features for quite some time, and it just happened that Apple had its tech conference before Google, so they got to announce it first.


i guess that is what is termed Zeitgeist ; and people in different parts of the world will come up with similar ideas at the same time
but other times it is or looks as it is straightforward pilfering; a fine line :] sometimes crossed

[Morbius1]

This is what "Connect to server" looked like in Gnome2:
265273
This is how it has always looked in OSX:
265275
This is what it looks like in Gnome today:
265274

Looks like Gnome pilfered something from OSX to me. Of all the things to copy from Apple why do it on something that Gnome had right to begin with.

[Geoffrey_Arndt]

More of the Apple philosophy of the "walled-garden" . . . . a beautiful black-box OS . . . .

[RichardET]

Apple has been stealing a lot from IOS and OS X over the years, and for some reason no one seems to be saying anything about it.

What is this nonsense? How does Apple steal from itself? And who cares? How is it related to Ubuntu?

[bruakerche]

Copycat is more and more. You can't stop them unless you got a patent on that.