Is Windows 10 driving people to install Linux?

[Max_Kunstler]

Have you guys seen any articles about Windows 10 driving people to use Linux instead of Windows?
Are there any statistics showing that it caused usage of Linux to increase?
That's the effect it had on me. I was planning on moving to Linux before Win 10 was released, but
I was procrastinating on it. But then I heard about Win 10 and all its privacy invasions, and that's what
caused me to stop delaying and finally install Linux.

[papibe]

Not a support question. Moved to The Cafe

[Geoffrey_Arndt]

In our local computer club, a few members still run XP . . . the majority run Win 7, and a few now run Win 10 saying they really like it overall. But none of these folks are in the least concerned about privacy. The attitude is something like "but internet access has to be monitized" . . . .

I remember years ago, hearing the phrase . . "if you build a better mousetrap, the world will beat a path to your door". Not true when it comes to OS's . . . the average user is afraid of the OS and doesn't want to interact with it. (So Google is on to something with the Chromebook - - - so simple, "even a Cave-Man can run it" (or something like that)).

[portalhavoc]

Yes. I think it is. And you know, Ever since Windows 8 came out in 2012. More and more people have been switching to Linux.

I admit that I do have Windows-powered machines in my house. But they run on Windows 7 and I sometimes do play around with Ubuntu on VirtualBox ever once in a while.

[mc4man]

I think you made a good choice, hope you get along well with it.
As far as win 10 I'd think the vast majority of current & future users will be just fine with it & enjoy whatever it is that they do.

Re: privacy, I don't think the bulk of computer or IoT in general users really care about privacy. There may be a fair amount that say they do, but out of that, relatively few that take seriously for whatever reasons they may have.
Hundreds of millions of people do whatnot on their smartphones so can't imagine privacy is a concern.

On the other hand there's security & convenience, people will gladly give up stuff for that.

[QIII]

I just killed all the privacy invasive stuff.

And no, I doubt it will drive people to Linux. It is a vast improvement over Win 8 and even edges out Win 7 in my mind. If anything, it will keep people in the Microsoft fold.

That's fine. People should use what works for them and not be subject to haranguing by Linux users trying to get them to switch. Why switch anyway, when you can use both?

[wyliecoyoteuk]

For my job, I support a mixed bag of Windows, Linux and Mac, with iPads, Android, chromebooks etc..
At home. all my machines run Linux, but at work we have been testing win10, and although I think it is really 8.2 service pack1, I think it is quite good, better than 8 or 8.1.
Once you have turned off all of the reporting rubbish, that is.
Not good enough to make me want to use it at home, but good enough to keep users on Windows in general.

[mikewhatever]

Probably not. People don't mind "privacy invasions", so I doubt they'll think anything is wrong with w10.

[MartyBuntu]

. . . the average user is afraid of the OS and doesn't want to interact with it.


I don't think the majority of users even care to interact with their OS.
The want to interact with their preferred applications and if the quality and responsiveness is maintained between OS releases, that's all that matters.

[Frogs Hair]

I saw one suggestion to install Ubuntu on the MS forum after particularly bad Win 10 upgrade experience. It's worth taking a look at that forum if you're interested in some of the problems users are having with the upgrade.Besides disabling invasive settings , installing your own mail client and browser are a good idea in Win 10. I use the MS mail account strictly for a garbage account and do not list any contacts in the MS mail client.

[RichardET]

Windows 10 is a hog, but I doubt it will be a harvest feast for Ubuntu.

[Geoffrey_Arndt]

The danger to being complacent, . . . even "acquiescent" about using only a Windows, MacOS, IoS, Android or similar locked OS is loss of control, . . . (aka - User Lock-In)

Isn't it better to be a home owner than a perpetual renter? Or just a "leaser" of both the OS and the Software & Services . . . ??? :confused::icon_frown:

Informed users in science, education, and business don't want lock-in with the added costs and constraints, but the consumer isn't really offered much choice because consumer based computing (pc, phone, tablets) is now just a platform for mass marketing and excess commercialism (i.e., weather.com used to be about 80/20 re useful content to marketing. It now seems to be 40/60 - - so most screen content has been relegated to crap content . . . just one example of 100k websites or so).

Beware of the "Boiling Frog" syndrome. (as in Biology class)

[mystics]

It'll be driving a few people, but I imagine most, if not all, of those people already had long-standing dislike of Microsoft and were just looking for a final motivation. As for a mass exodus over to Linux: No, I don't think that will happen. At the very least, Windows 10 is receiving much better reception than things like Vista or Windows 8, so if those couldn't kill Windows to build up Linux, Windows 10 isn't going to.

Besides, it isn't like Linux is the only alternative. I'd imagine that Windows hate leads more people to Mac OS X than to Linux.

[MartyBuntu]

There was no noticeable mass migration to Linux when Windows XP went EOL, so I highly doubt Windows 10 refugees will show up in these forums in great numbers.

[MartyBuntu]

I'd imagine that Windows hate leads more people to Mac OS X than to Linux.

I'd say that's fairly accurate.

[SeijiSensei]

Every new version of Windows generates this question, and every time the answer is the same. The effect on Linux adoptions will be trivial. Vista was a mess, but there wasn't any noticeable migration to Linux then.

The vast majority of "computer users" these days are staring at Android or iOS devices. People in offices and gamers are using Windows. Most other people are using the operating systems on the computers they buy, Windows or OS X. If it's Windows 10, they'll adapt.

[C_Mac]

Hello,

I am a new Linux user and it is directly related to the launch of Windows 10. I had 2 PC's running Windows 7, I never made the switch to Windows 8 or 8.1, and when I read the controversial user agreement for windows 10 (I believe the language of the agreement has been changed) I just got a bad feeling about the current state of affairs regarding technology and spying. Some people may say that I've got my tin foil hat on, but I would rather be proactive opposed to reactive when it comes to how I interface with my technology.

[Welly Wu]

Windows 10 and Office 2016 will drive more people to use Microsoft's hardware and software products and services in my opinion because most of their co-workers, family, and friends will recommend them in due time. Windows 10 adoption is very fast and it is off to a great start. It will eclipse all previous versions of Microsoft Windows in the next few years and solidify Microsoft's grip over the desktop and notebook PC markets.

[coldraven]

I was quite an expert at XP, I had been using Microsoft from MSDOS 2.0. But when Vista arrived I moved to Linux based distros. The reason was that I did not want an OS that used my resources to check to see if I was breaking the law. If you have a spare half an hour then this is very informative, it gave me the impetus to abandon Windows forever. I very much doubt that Microsoft have changed their spots with Win 10.
https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

[HermanAB]

The odd person may switch to Linux, but millions of people have switched to Apple Macs since Vista hit the market years ago and each time MS stumbles, more people switch to Apple.

As for myself, if a family member asks for computer support, I tell them that I don't do Windows and some elderly people I give little Apple laptops to, then I don't have to be bothered with support.

The main market for Linux is on servers, super computers and embedded devices. That means, everything except desktops. The result is that the installed base of Linux is at least 10 times larger than Windows, yet most people are unaware of it, even while typing a text on their Android phone, from behind their Linux WiFi router...

The thing to bear in mind is that Linux is only one of the kernels available for UNIX. I really don't care whether people use Linux, BSD or Mac, they are all the same underneath anyway. If I look around me now, I am typing on a Macbook Pro (on the Ubuntu forum yes!), next to me is my Linux laptop sleeping, down the hall is my wife's Linux laptop playing some old TV shows on Youtube and in my computer bag is my BSD laptop snoozing...

[monkeybrain20122]

Windows 10 adoption is very fast ..

No doubt has a lot to do with the 'free' upgrade. People get lured into such things. It is a bit early to say it is a great success until people find out what they have gotten into..
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/17/windows-10s-pirated-software-searches/

EULA reads “We may automatically check your version of the software and download software updates or configuration changes, including those that prevent you from accessing the [Windows] Services, playing counterfeit games, or using unauthorised hardware peripheral devices.”

Well even if you have no pirated software it is just outrageous that your OS polices your computer use in such a way (and a lot of Windows users do have pirated software) And software that prevent you from accessing Windows service can be something you install to protect your privacy.

[Welly Wu]

Some customers have accepted this EULA whether they read it in full or not. This is going to be the new normal for commercial software for the foreseeable future. What do you expect? It's Windows 10. If you don't like it, then don't use it.

I still need Windows 10 Pro and other Microsoft software products. There are too many Windows software products that don't work with Codeweavers CrossOver in Ubuntu. So, this settles it for me.

[monkeybrain20122]

Some customers have accepted this EULA whether they read it in full or not. This is going to be the new normal for commercial software for the foreseeable future. What do you expect? It's Windows 10. If you don't like it, then don't use it.

But they will find out the effects.


I still need Windows 10 Pro and other Microsoft software products. There are too many Windows software products that don't work with Codeweavers CrossOver in Ubuntu. So, this settles it for me.

Maybe you. Many Windows users I know have these "software products" (why am I writing like a commercial?) because they got them from torrents (which may be disabled in Win 10 according to EULA) Unlike you who seems to have money to burn most humble users are not going to dish out big bucks for these 'products' :) It is not like they come with the OS.

[monkeybrain20122]

Actually I know several friends who have already jumped ship. Switched to Mac most of them. I only offered to switch one to Ubuntu (which was accepted) because I don't have the time to support many people.

[Welly Wu]

Next July, people that upgraded are going to either pay for Windows 10 or they are going to downgrade if it is possible.

Don't think for a minute that Windows 10, Mac, or even Linux are going to protect your privacy while connected to the Internet. Privacy is nearly dead and almost everybody that has touched a device that connects to the Internet has an digital trail of some kind.

Microsoft is doing the right thing by disabling pirated software within their company's portfolio. It does not touch third party software products outside of Microsoft yet.

The right thing to do is to pay for Microsoft hardware and software products if a user needs to use them for work or personal usage. The same is true for Mac hardware and software products and services. I see very little incentive for the majority of Apple and Microsoft customers to jump ship to Linux because their favorite software isn't always available and they don't want to go through a learning curve with FOSS.

Perhaps you should examine yourself by evaluating your biases against tech giants. I just don't see how you contribute to further the discussion much less elevate it by constantly haranguing the same companies for doing legal business worldwide. It's not like you even put a dent in their bottom lines.

I'm trying to be civil minded and following the rules here, but it's not easy.

Windows 10 is the platform by which Microsoft is going to pull itself out of the deep hole that Ballmer created with Windows 8 years ago and there will be more Microsoft stuff that pushes this company ahead of the competition. Some tech journalists give Windows 10 the edge over Mac Yosemite in their published reviews and they are right. It's more innovative and natural to use a new Windows 10 PC than a Mac. I think it is worth paying for it because I have not seen any Linux distribution that comes even close to Windows 10, Office 2016 beta, or Skype. There are a lot of Microsoft employees that deserve to be paid and rewarded for their hard work and for listening closely to customers' complaints about Windows 8 during the software development cycle.

Until you try and pay for it yourself, you are entitled to your own opinions, but I do not share your viewpoints as a Microsoft customer.

[monkeybrain20122]

Well even if 100% privacy is not possible it is not a justification for zero privacy. It is an absurd argument. By the same argument why not live in a fish bowl? As said before Win10 is different in that it is not a browser. With things like Chrome you are not tracked by google once you close the browser (disconnect gdrive etc if necessary). This is your OS and it spies on you whenever you turn on the machine. And I think most people do have a somewhat different privacy standard for the PC than for the phone.


Microsoft is doing the right thing by disabling pirated software within their company's portfolio.


So you think it is right for your landlord to do random B&E into your place and go through all your stuffs to check if you have taken his light bulbs or something?

I may not make a dent in MS's profit but at least I don't contribute to it. Unlike some people basically writing commercials for it and touting its business model in a Linux forum, of all places.I happen to think that predatory monopolies that abuse users are bad for society, whatever shiny toys they make to get you hooked. And Why would I 'pay for it'? I don't use any MS 'product' (except for skype which I use only with my parents and will switch them to jitsi next time I visit) I would rather make generous donations to FOSS and give to charities if I have that much cash to burn.

[Welly Wu]

So, there it is. The status quo in this world is largely well maintained.

For me, the word spying connotes a special unique understanding since I worked at NSA years ago. Windows 10 is not deliberately spying on its customers the way that NSA and other law enforcement and intelligence agencies worldwide actively spy on their citizens and foreign nationals. Windows 10 doesn't even come close to that definition. I see Windows 10 as a cooperative trust between Microsoft Corporation and their customers worldwide. It is a transaction or business deal whereby Microsoft gets unique data from customers and customers get innovative services in return. Don't mistake that Apple is not paying close attention and they are going to copy some features and brand it as their own creations. Mac OS X and especially iOS spy on their users with less security systems in place than Windows, yet Apple convinced tech neophytes that Macs are more secure than Windows which is plainly wrong.

Google Chromebooks collect information and data when you connect to the Internet. The key questions are who is interested in you and what kind of resources do they have to select you as a target regardless of which device and software you use? Going offline does not protect your privacy. At NSA, we could penetrate targets that were disconnected within high security fortresses even if computers were not networked together using old trade craft techniques for insertion to exfiltrate the information and data that we wanted to collect, store, and analyze. I can't get into sources and methods in a public forum, but it does happen worldwide among countries especially coming from BRIC nations.

Enough.

[QIII]

Next July, people that upgraded are going to either pay for Windows 10 or they are going to downgrade if it is possible.

Not quite correct. The deal is that if you upgrade within the first year, you don't have to pay anything. If you upgrade after that grace period you will have to pay to upgrade just as you have had to with previous upgrades.

The wording was confusing, so Microsoft clarified that some time ago.

[Bucky Ball]

Microsoft is banning torrenting in a bid to outlaw piracy? No, just other pirates. That takes the cake.

It would be a great idea for people to do some research on Microsoft's history and get things straight. So many posts here as if Microsoft came down with the last shower and they are just trying to make a buck.

Open your eyes people! I have no problem with companies making a buck. I do have problems with is companies bullying smaller players out of the market 'because they can', eliminating competition by any means possible, stealing intellectual property, lying ... etc. etc. blah blah. It's all there if you care to do your research. There's mountains of source material outlining MS's ethical cesspit. Fact, not belief, the latter being the bulk of what gets posted about MS here and elsewhere.

That stuff bothers me more than their data-mining activities, not that I agree with that, either. I use open-source for ethical reasons. I don't like cheats and worse.

You could start with an oldie called 'What Just Happened?' by James Gleick.

[monkeybrain20122]

Microsoft is banning torrenting in a bid to outlaw piracy? No, just other pirates. That takes the cake.

No, apparently the torrent sites ban Win10 http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/windows-10-users-banned-from-torrenting-by-piracy-sites-because-of-worries-that-microsoft-spies-on-downloads-10468903.html

[Welly Wu]

This is going to blow over in the next couple of weeks. Windows 10 is reaching its peak in terms of growing its user base and there is no way that torrent websites can ignore Windows 10 users forever if they want to make money to keep the lights on. C'mon, do you think that this ban will last forever! It's still early days for Windows 10. Let the dust settle first.

[MartyBuntu]

Windows 10 and Office 2016 will drive more people to use Microsoft's hardware and software products and services in my opinion because most of their co-workers, family, and friends will recommend them in due time. Windows 10 adoption is very fast and it is off to a great start. It will eclipse all previous versions of Microsoft Windows in the next few years and solidify Microsoft's grip over the desktop and notebook PC markets.

Office is moving to a subscription based cloud service and Windows 10 hasn't broken any records for adoption rate. The damage was done with Metro.

[Welly Wu]

Over 75 million people use Windows 10 in less than three months after its launch date. I don't see Canonical putting up those numbers yet. In fact, PC gamers are upgrading to Windows 10 at a much faster rate than Linux users with SteamOS. The Microsoft Office 365 subscription has a lot of value added bonuses that I like to pay for each month including 60 minutes of Skype Unlimited World, 1 TB of OneDrive, and a few extra Office 2013 and later 2016 software products that are not available in the retail box version of Office 2013. The biggest benefit with Office 365 Home is that I can share it with up to five other users or PCs with my subscription. It's a better business model since Office is a bread and butter software product for the company.

Don't get me wrong. I'm still using Ubuntu right now on my desktop PC. I don't plan to switch desktop or mobile operating systems for the foreseeable future. Windows 10, Office 2013, and Skype changed my opinions about Microsoft Corporation and it's for the better. It's amazing what the company was able to pull off.

[buzzingrobot]

No effective and accurate way to measure Linux adoption rates, or even existing use, exist, particularly regarding usage by mainstream desktop users who pay for their own systems.

Anecdotal reports, played and replayed around the web, don't count for much.

*Any* significant upgrade/change to *any* significant software inevitably goes wrong for some users, and some of those users inevitably get annoyed enough to move elsewhere and then tell the world about. We saw it in Linux when Gnome 3 replaced Gnome 2, when Ubuntu adopted Unity, etc. More than a decade ago, some Mac users threw a collective hissy fit when Steve Jobs rolled out OS X.

Windows 10 usage surpassed XP and 8/8.1 within its first month. I doubt Microsoft is in panic mode.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

...I don't see Canonical putting up those numbers yet. In fact, PC gamers are upgrading to Windows 10 at a much faster rate than Linux users with SteamOS...

I am an old man and doesn't play games; therefore, I don't understand what Windows 10 has to do with people using SteamOS. What does that sentence mean?

[night_sky2]

With things like Chrome you are not tracked by google once you close the browser (disconnect gdrive etc if necessary). This is your OS and it spies on you whenever you turn on the machine. And I think most people do have a somewhat different privacy standard for the PC than for the phone.
One can desactivate updates in Windows 10 Pro and Enterprise if one is so paranoid about data mining from Microsoft.

Also, it's not uncommon that even when closing the browser, there are still Chrome processesses running in the background. Google ships Chrome with the ''continue running background apps when Google Chrome is closed'' - a feature buried deep in the Chrome settings - on by default. There are also automatic updates, which is a potential source of concern for privacy-minded users.

[monkeybrain20122]

Also, it's not uncommon that even when closing the browser, there are still Chrome processesses running in the background. Google ships Chrome with the ''continue running background apps when Google Chrome is closed''.

This only applies if you install specific google apps which have to be on all time. They do warn you when you install and ask you if it should go ahead. I remember seeing that and chose cancel so that was it (so it is opt-in, you don't have to install the apps). Also I think there is a visible Chrome tray icon if Chrome is running in the background in this scenario so it is not hidden (but I can't confirm this, only from reading related articles. I use Firefox mainly and don't install any Chrome app or extension except adblock)

[Geoffrey_Arndt]

At it's most basic level, MS Windows has again crossed the boundary of unethical behaviour into illegal behaviour.

When a software company has the ability to influence the OEM's in such a way to restrict fair trade practices, that is still illegal in the USA and other countries.

Why is it tolerated that certain Toshiba, HP, Asus design their firmware & bios/uefi such that it will disable or even brick a machine if some tries to install an alternate OS?

Does anyone here recall what transpired in Gabon Africa after Mandrake invested a LOT of effort and funds to reach a contract with the govt of that country? And how within a week of being visited by the regional head of MS that contract was nullified?

Just one example (of very many).

[QIII]

I think there are probably very few of us who would champion Microsoft as a paragon of fair play and just business practices.

However, the post was not about Microsoft. It was about Windows and whether Win 10 would push people to install Linux.

[mystics]

But they will find out the effects.

I doubt it. Most people I know are minimally aware, if they are aware at all, about privacy issues, and most of them who are aware don't bother to consider some of the issues, both ethical and practical, surrounding it. Privacy is an issue that has a few people highly dedicated to it, but most people seem to be ignorant or ambivalent. Do you really think Google could survive otherwise? I don't see Microsoft being singled out as the only company that can't get away with this.


I am an old man and doesn't play games; therefore, I don't understand what Windows 10 has to do with people using SteamOS. What does that sentence mean?

As far as I can tell around certain gaming circles, Steam OS is seen as a bid to move PC gaming over to Linux. In fact, that is partly Valve's motivation: They were concerned about the potential for the Windows Store to cut into their profits, so they wanted to try to shift PC gaming over to a platform where they control the market.

But comparing Windows 10 to SteamOS at this point is quite unfair. Windows 10 has a full version. SteamOS is still in Beta and won't be officially pushing a full version with hardware out until November. Comparing the two at this point is like comparing the U.S. adoption rate of a new iOS version to Ubuntu Touch.

[Welly Wu]

It was not a fair comparison between Windows 10 and Steam OS, but I have my reservations about whether the latter will survive or even thrive during this holiday season. DirectX 12 is the hotness for PC gamers right now and future PC games that use it are coming at the end of this year. It like getting a free graphics card with Windows 10 if your PC and GPU support DirectX 12. The problem that I see with Steam OS is that there is a lack of hardware to support it and Valve can only do so much to engender the tiny niche market to flourish on its own. They still have to compete with Sony and Microsoft on Playstation and XBox with Steam machines and that's a tough sell. Cracking into established markets with a single large company is usually fraught with unique challenges.

I'll still continue to buy SteamOS + GNU/Linux PC games, but I'm in the minority even here at UF. Windows 10 is going to accelerate the PC gaming market further along and it will lead to more profitable and larger market share as PC OEMs and ODMs build and sell gaming desktop and especially notebook PCs each year with new features and capabilities. The growth of eSports is phenomenal and Windows 10 will be the platform to drive future innovations in hardware and software design and technologies.

This is why I think that the times are good for Microsoft now for more growth and expansion. I just don't see why people would want to switch to Linux because of Windows 10. In fact, I think Linux usage will decline because of Windows 10. Few people like me want to wait longer for major AAA PC game titles to be ported over to Linux with far fewer titles to start with in the first place. Once Office 2016 ships later this month, I think that it will be clear to more people that both go together perfectly and this will further accelerate the worldwide adoption of Windows 10.

Windows 10 is a killer software product on its own merits. It will be the gold standard by which previous Windows versions are judged.

[flocculant]

It will be the gold standard by which previous Windows versions are judged.

For the moment, 11 will be along shortly - are we going to get your pronouncements on that too? If so - can we have links to your words on Microsoft forums for completeness.

Will Windows 10 then be a pointless exercise in the march of Microsoft?

[craig10x]

There isn't going to be any windows 11...windows 10 marks the start of windows as a basically rolling model...in fact, in the near future, they are just going to call it windows...

[Nathan_McCrina]

I am only an anecdote, but after Windows 10 was released and I read about the privacy issues I installed Ubuntu on my home computer. I have slowly become disillusioned with the direction software is going and I don't see the need to be constantly sending data to various corporate conglomerates, however anonymous or innocuous it is. I liked Windows 7, but I knew that I would never install Windows 10 so I might as well start running Linux full time now as later.

However, I have been using Linux off and on since 2006 so I didn't even think twice about installing it. Many people who otherwise might share my views might be less confident in switching or may not even be aware of their options.

[night_sky2]

There isn't going to be any windows 11...windows 10 marks the start of windows as a basically rolling model...in fact, in the near future, they are just going to call it windows...
We don't know that yet. I am quite convinced that free upgrades are becoming the norm rather than the exception but Windows will still need to be sold in it's conventional mediums as install DVDs and USBs for PC builders. That is not gonna change. But for the average Windows user it might become basically a rolling model. I am sure that each release will still have a name though to avoid confusion, like Windows 10.1, 10.2 ect.

[night_sky2]

I am only an anecdote, but after Windows 10 was released and I read about the privacy issues I installed Ubuntu on my home computer. I have slowly become disillusioned with the direction software is going and I don't see the need to be constantly sending data to various corporate conglomerates, however anonymous or innocuous it is. I liked Windows 7, but I knew that I would never install Windows 10 so I might as well start running Linux full time now as later.
What some people like Monkeybrain20122 don't realize is that Windows 10 is a hybrid OS. It's part local, part cloud.

The cloud is the future of computing. As a matter of fact, it's happening now. Google is now selling computers that works pretty much only in the cloud and quite
a few people buy into it. One of the downside of the cloud is privacy issues. But this is where we are going and Microsoft is only following a trend, lest the Firm
should be left behind. Windows 10 is a modern OS that is geared towards the cloud but that can still serve well the traditional local function dear to power users.

[monkeybrain20122]

What some people like Monkeybrain20122 don't realize is that Windows 10 is a hybrid OS. It's part local, part cloud.



I do realise that. It is the Windows users who don't and they would be in for a shock.


Google is now selling computers that works pretty much only in the cloud and quite
a few people buy into it.

But a Chrome book is typically cheaper and it doesn't pretend to be anything else. Google is upfront about it being just a gateway to Google's cloud, so buyers know, there is no deception and hence no false expectations. It is interesting to know the percentage of computer users who use the Chrome book as their sole computers (not counting phones) and what their use cases are, doubt that many use it for playing games or graphic, music making e.g.


The cloud is the future of computing. As a matter of fact, it's happening now. One of the downside of the cloud is privacy issues. But this is where we are going and Microsoft is only following a trend, lest the Firm
should be left behind. Windows 10 is a modern OS that is geared towards the cloud but that can still serve well the traditional local function dear to power users.

I think it is just hype.No doubt MS would want everything becomes cloud based so it can charge you everytime you want to look at your pictures and you are compelled to pay your monthly subscription just so that you can access your apps and data. How is that good for users?

Most people want to have control over their data and applications they install. The cloud becomes even less attractive if internet connection is slow or not very reliable, how about losing access to all your files and applications when wifi is down? (not uncommon around here even in the downtown core of a big city in a first world country and with one of the biggest ISP) Also if you go for cloud (there are legit uses of course) why not go for something platform agnostic instead of being locked into MS only?

[monkeybrain20122]

We don't know that yet. I am quite convinced that free upgrades are becoming the norm ...

Since when? This is just an early bird offer and after the grace period you will still have to pay to upgrade. I think it is a promotion but mostly a way to clean up old clutters such as XP, Vista and Win 7 which MS no longer wants to support because Win 10 is sort of a demarcation which represents a new money making scheme(Win 8 is a disaster anyway) So it is not like the cloud is so hot with users, but MS is herding them in that direction. Now it is the carrot, the stick may follow shortly (cutting off support for old versions) Unlike the pre 8 versions MS can make money by selling OS, services and data all at once and lock down the users even more. When things move to the cloud and subscription the company are in control at the expense of the users. So it can't wait to rush and lure everyone to 'upgrade', but once that is accomplished I see no reason for further freebies.

[mystics]

It was not a fair comparison between Windows 10 and Steam OS, but I have my reservations about whether the latter will survive or even thrive during this holiday season. DirectX 12 is the hotness for PC gamers right now and future PC games that use it are coming at the end of this year. It like getting a free graphics card with Windows 10 if your PC and GPU support DirectX 12. The problem that I see with Steam OS is that there is a lack of hardware to support it and Valve can only do so much to engender the tiny niche market to flourish on its own. They still have to compete with Sony and Microsoft on Playstation and XBox with Steam machines and that's a tough sell. Cracking into established markets with a single large company is usually fraught with unique challenges.

It'll be interesting to see how it functions for sure, but I'm not writing it off just yet. Most PC gamers I know have an eye on SteamOS and Valve's hardware. And in terms of breaking in to new gaming-related markets, there are few companies as well-positioned as Valve to succeed against tough competition.

The problem that I see, though, is what faces Linux in general for gaming: There's a vicious cycle where Windows is where people are, so that is what is supported, and because it is the one supported, that's where people are. If Valve wants to get a mass move over to SteamOS and Linux, they'll need to either cut off competitor OSs (which I doubt they'll do) or rely on gamers to give up some entertainment for a cause. And when it comes down to it, gamers have proven time and time again that when given the choice between ideals and entertainment, they will always choose entertainment. Ironically, Valve sort of benefited off of this as I doubt people would have accepted Steam's DRM otherwise.

In the end, it should be interesting to see how well it does. Part of me wants to agree that it will probably not cause a massive shift in gaming, but I'd rather not go all-in against the chances of a company with a loyal fan base that could rival even Apple's in terms of dedication.

[Bucky Ball]

Reinforcing what QIII has posted: This thread is about whether Win10 will draw people to Linux. One last time: Stay on topic, please. Thanks. This has nothing to do with whether Win10 or Steam or anything else will flourish this summer. It is about Win10 driving people to Linux. Just repeating that so it is clear. :)

Please stay on TOPIC. Thanks.

[mikodo]

This has nothing to do with whether Win10 or Steam or anything else will flourish this summer.

Which summer is that?

Kidding, I know you live "down under".

:)

[yoshii]

I routinely read about other OSes, including those that I don't run. It's a bit like reading security sites to learn about the security flaws in various softwares. It's good to know. Right now there's plenty of info buzzing around about Windows 8 and 10 hassles.

But as for actual experience, troubles with Windows 7 is what landed me in Linux happy user land. I buy used computers and every time I bought one it had Windows 7 on it, and each time Windows ended up corrupted from one thing or another. I got really sick of it and it was a bigger problem than I ever had with Windows XP SP2. Windows XP SP2 was decent for my music production needs, but I couldn't find a place to buy it anymore for cheap and it's past it's support lifetime anyhow. So Ubuntu Studio became my next project and with Wine I can still run most of what I need for my Digital Audio Workstation. I still use VST's and VST instruments and Windows freewares and Reaper and FL Studio. I had a little bit of experience with Puppy Linux, including Puppy Studio, so Ubuntu Studio was a godsend. It particularly worked out because I also prefer Xfce and that's what Ubuntu Studio comes with. I wish fewer sites would complain about Unity when it's not even in the equation for many Ubuntu distros.

Anyways, I'm happy and I didn't have to spend 150 dollars on a questionable Windows XP from amazon. All I spent was a few dollars on blank DVD's to burn Ubuntu onto with plenty extras to spare for trying out other liveCD distros for fun. I'm actually quite enthusiastic about Linux and read distrowatch almost daily. Except for some the threads like this one, I'm actually rather sick of hearing about Microsoft OSes when there's much more exciting things happening in Linux userspaces. But I suppose when people come looking for dual-boot solutions, they end up coming to Linux for answers since it's hard to do from within Windows.

[mc4man]

Reinforcing what QIII has posted: This thread is about whether Win10 will draw people to Linux. One last time: Stay on topic, please. Thanks. :)

Please stay on TOPIC. Thanks.
That's likely been firmly established as a resounding No.

discussions about privacy are always going to be verbose & of no great value, to each there own
(- I've got shades on my windows, tinted windows on my car & as far as electronic activities the best privacy going - as an individual creature I'm absolutely of no interest in an individual/personal sense.

[coldraven]

@Welly Wu
Would you buy a car that was restricted to 50mph? You might need to break the speed limit if someone is chasing you or you need to get someone to a hospital or maybe just for your own pleasure. If the car was offered for free I might decide that it was a reasonable deal to be limited in what can I do with it.
Windows is not free and I am not going to pay for something that restricts my freedom. Windows 10 costs a lot of money yet comes with nothing useful, not even a game of Solitaire. Go back to my previous post on this thread (#19) and follow the link. When you have read it you will understand why Microsoft panders to Hollywood and not the users who paid for their product.

[mikodo]

I wish fewer sites would complain about Unity when it's not even in the equation for many Ubuntu distros.

Yep, what all you said. Then again ...


there's much more exciting things happening in Linux userspaces.

I wish we would hear more about Unity, and the soon to be upcoming Ubuntu 16.04. That's what, I think about a lot these days.

I may even dual-boot it with my "main squeeze", Xubuntu just, to watch it evolve.

digressing again ... wish I had a main squeeze

[Skaperen]

it's not driving me to install linux ... i don't have W10.

[SeijiSensei]

OT, but anyway....


Would you buy a car that was restricted to 50mph?
I rented a Ford Edge the other day and wondered why it told me I was reaching my "maximum speed limit" when I broke 72 mph. (The speedometer went up to 140.) Turns out it had a programmable "MyKey (https://owner.ford.com/how-tos/sync-technology/myford-touch/in-vehicle-settings/use-mykey-to-help-encourage-responsible-driving.html)" device. One key has "admin" privileges and can set restrictions in terms of top speed and maximum volume on the other one. I switched keys at the next rest stop.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

Personally, I don't think Windows 10 is driving people that were not considering the switch already to move to Linux.

No-one I know that uses Microsoft Windows has decided to switch to Linux because of Windows 10. None of them have upgraded to Windows 10 yet; because, they are waiting for the bugs to be worked out first.

I have one computer that I am thinking of upgrading to Windows 10; however, I am waiting on reports of people's experiences with hardware compatibility before I would actually do so. I haven't purchased a new computer in the years since I retired, and the computer I am thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 is a 'Frankenstein' build running Windows 7.

[mikodo]

OT, but anyway....


I rented a Ford Edge the other day and wondered why it told me I was reaching my "maximum speed limit" when I broke 72 mph. (The speedometer went up to 140.) Turns out it had a programmable "MyKey (https://owner.ford.com/how-tos/sync-technology/myford-touch/in-vehicle-settings/use-mykey-to-help-encourage-responsible-driving.html)" device. One key has "admin" privileges and can set restrictions in terms of top speed and maximum volume on the other one. I switched keys at the next rest stop.

Haha!

I leased only one vehicle, (for 3 years), fifteen years ago or so. That goes against my grain as, I like older cars that I find cheaper to run, and when I was young, would fix myself. This lease suited us where we living at the time. Northern Canada, the roads were atrocious and my wife and I would have to drive ~400 miles sometimes to reach the dealer and, getting parts for an older car, in the middle of nowhere in the north, was a pain. That car took a beating. But, it was new and lasted those years.

I often wondered if, when I took that car to the dealer to give it back if I would chastised for driving it so fast, during those long distances. I figure they can read the computer that tells them things like the average highway speeds. I dunno though, back then.

[Geoffrey_Arndt]

See this latest re Win 10

http://www.howtogeek.com/227827/windows-10-is-great-except-for-the-parts-that-are-terrible/

Thank the Maker I'm retired and don't have to run win 10 at behest of an Employer (ran it daily for over 20 years)

[monkeybrain20122]

See this latest re Win 10 . . . . http://http://www.howtogeek.com/227827/wind...-are-terrible/

Thank the Maker I'm retired and don't have to run win 10 at behest of an Employer (ran it daily for over 20 years)

Your links doesn't work. Here it is. http://www.howtogeek.com/227827/windows-10-is-great-except-for-the-parts-that-are-terrible/

Well the residential MS cheerleading team would show up and say that it is a great feature demanded by "consumers" (as evidenced by upgrades and sales) and "the trend of the future". They would then declare that FOSS is "falling behind" for not having implemented it and being hostile to the idea so that soon it will become irrelevant blah blah. :)

[Geoffrey_Arndt]

Thanks for correcting the link MB20122 . . was in too much of a hurry (again). ps: I'll also go back and correct the original.

Ubuntu seems so clean and simple compared to the glare and glitz of Win7, 8 and even 10. Who needs all that absolute distracting adverts off the menu? Just unreal, it's bad enough to put up with that in a browser, but now also on the desktop itself?

With Canonical, it was so easy to shut off dash-web search "persistently". I've read that's much harder in Windows 10.

[yoshii]

I really with people would stop giving lip service to Windows 10 just because it's new.

[bcschmerker]

Thanks for the lowdown on who's migrating whence-to-whither and whether buggy components are hastening the migrations. I have a "never the twain shall meet" approach to different operating systems. My Hot Rod gPC started its service as a bone-stock Everex® TC2502 (1.5 GHz VIA® C7-D CPU, CN700/VT8237R+ chipset, UniChrome™ GPU) running a derivative of XUbuntu® 7.10 with the Enlightenment E17 desktop, went through two rebuilds (the second forced by an ECS® mobo with nVIDIA® nForce® 785 chipset that wouldn't stay powered up with any PSU!) and has packed a Gigabyte® GA-MA78GM-S2HP (Advanced Micro Devices® Athlon II® X2 5600+, 780G/SB700 chipset) and Antec® TruePower® New™ 750 Blue™ power since 2011, running Ubuntu® 12.04-LTS since May 2012 and LinUX Kernel 3.13 since September 2014, with two old Fujitsu® Enhnaced-IDE hard drives that will be replaced by up to four Western Digital® Scorpio Red® HDD's in custom shock mounts - the Hot Rod has to endure Central Valley (CA, USA) summers when ambient temperatures occasionally exceed the maximum safe operating temperatures of many hard drives for desktops. (Although the Creative Laboratories® SB0350 PCI 2.2 audio card recently gave up the ghost, the 2012-retrofitted Mitsumi® FA404 combination disquette drive (IBM 5150-compatible interface via Winbond® super-I/O) and USB 2.0 card reader is at the ready.) Gigabyte Technology has an upgrade BIOS, Release F6D, still available for the GA-MA78GM-S2HP; but I am also researching the componentry thereon for a contingency Coreboot build (Coreboot already fully supports a related model, the GA-MA785GMT-UD2H, as of 2 July 2015).

I previously ran a Vista box, an eMachines®/Acer® EL1210-09 (Advanced Micro Devices® Athlon 64® LE-1620; nVIDIA® nForce® 785 IGP chipset) initially packing Microsoft® Windows® 6.0.6000 and taken through two Service Packs, until the stock Hitachi® HDD gave up the ghost (thermal failure of critical logic-board circuitry); I am now running it with a Western Digital® Scorpio Black® HDD in a custom shock-mount, a Shuttle® PSU retrofit, and an Asus® EN210/DI/512MD3, as a testbed with UbuntuGNOME® 14.04.3-LTS for a projection computer project and will probably have to upgrade it to LinUX Kernel 4.1 (slated for release with Ubuntu® 15.10; PPA: kernel-ppa/ppa) to get the reclocking support for the nVIDIA® C77 integrated GeForce® in the nF785 and the GT218 in the EN210 that I find necessary to run currently-available projectors at native resolution.

My current Winbox is an Asus® CM1630-06 consumer mid-tower (Advanced Micro Devices® Athlon II® X2 220, 760G/SB700 chipset) upgraded with an Antec® TruePower® New™ 750 Blue™ PSU, Asus® EAH6850DC/2D1S/1GD5 video (Advanced Micro Devices® RV980 Barts Pro™ GPU), and Asus® XONAR® audio (C-Media® special-flavor CMI-8788 with output relay controls), running Windows® 7.0.8001 will all important updates to 1 September 2015. Depending on how well the EL1210 performs with Kernel 4.1, I may rebuild the CM1630 with two Western Digital® Caviar Red® HDD's for Ubuntu® 15.12a1 (pipeline for 16.04-LTS), as I think it hamstrung for Win 10 due to the stock BIOS. (As of August 2015, Coreboot is not confirmed to support any system 'board with the Advanced Micro Devices® RS760G northbridge with integrated ATi® RS600 GPU.)

The next Winbox may be an all-in-one, depending on availability of the Intel® 6th-Generation Core Processors™ in a 21" to 22" size format, with a Logitech® gaming keyboard (probably the G510s, which packs integrated USB audio for a headset) and laser mouse. I am not in a rush to acquire a fully Win 10-ready rig, as the OS still has priority bugs to fix as of this Post.

[RichardET]

Based on this work, one might be best to "rethink" moving from Windows to Linux - based on security issues.

https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-13/dc13-presentations/DC_13-Potter.pdf

[craig10x]

In my case, Windows 10 drove me to installing Windows 10, after testing it in preview, i liked what i saw so i ended up upgrading and then clean installing Windows 10 on my laptop... :D
I think it's the best version they have ever put out and will get even better as the updates continue to come in...I think it has a different "feel" to it then previous versions that is a vast improvement...

[QIII]

The article linked above seems itself to have a smell of zealotry.

The BSDs are more secure than anything else -- provided they are used properly. That much is true.

I have always said that we should not claim that Linux is much more secure while thumping our chests and raising our noses in the air.

Security isn't fire-and-forget. It's an on-going process for ANY OS.

As for critical/high vulnerabilities compared with Windows -- a meaningless statistic without knowing what level of criticality is used as the metric before a vulnerability is labeled. One OS may have a lower bar before a problem is labeled as high or critical.

[craig10x]

@QIII: Just wanted to mention that i use the default virus scanner (windows defender) on my windows 10 install and i think it does a marvelous job of protection. I was a little nervous, coming from linux but it does a quick scan every morning automatically and i haven't had anything in over a month of using it. It is also does real time protection as well and i feel very safe with it. Also, virus definition updates come in on a daily basis (in fact that is the most frequent update that comes in other then when they send over a large package of stuff)...

[QIII]

Oh, I'm definitely liking Win 10 myself -- after killing all the privacy problems.

From what I see, I doubt very much that Win 10 will cause a stampede of lemmings over the cliff into the waiting arms of Linux.

[night_sky2]

@QIII: Just wanted to mention that i use the default virus scanner (windows defender) on my windows 10 install and i think it does a marvelous job of protection. I was a little nervous, coming from linux but it does a quick scan every morning automatically and i haven't had anything in over a month of using it. It is also does real time protection as well and i feel very safe with it. Also, virus definition updates come in on a daily basis (in fact that is the most frequent update that comes in other then when they send over a large package of stuff)...
You don't really 'need' an internet security suite on Windows. The built-in tools like Windows Defender & Firewall are sufficient when coupled with common sense and safe habbits. You can also prevents threats at the browser-level with extensions like Adblock, uBlock, NoScript ect.

What I like the most at this point from Windows 10 is the polished look. It's very pretty. I like Web Search feature too as I can now launch Google search in Firefox straight from the desktop. The OS is also rock solid for me so far on a 7 years old Dell Laptop. Not a single crash or anything like that. All in all, Microsoft really pulled this off.

[MartyBuntu]

I'm 11+ years into having Linux as my only install on my workstation and laptop.

There's nothing Microsoft can do to pull me back. I wish them no ill will, but I'm happy where I am.

[craig10x]

I agree night_sky2 with you 100%...i think they really pulled it off with this one...It's very attractive and kind of even fun and kind of warm and friendly to use, as it were (which wasn't really true of the older versions i thought)...
A real home run :D

I also like the way it self maintains...auto updates, once a week defrag check (and hasn't needed to do any so far) and daily defender scan...I can just sit back and enjoy...;)

[RichardET]

The article linked above seems itself to have a smell of zealotry.

The BSDs are more secure than anything else -- provided they are used properly. That much is true.

I have always said that we should not claim that Linux is much more secure while thumping our chests and raising our noses in the air.

Security isn't fire-and-forget. It's an on-going process for ANY OS.

As for critical/high vulnerabilities compared with Windows -- a meaningless statistic without knowing what level of criticality is used as the metric before a vulnerability is labeled. One OS may have a lower bar before a problem is labeled as high or critical.


One big + in Ubuntu's favour is hardware support - almost no recent video beyond NVIDIA works with FreeBSD and wireless support is also at times limited.

https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/best-laptop-for-freebsd.50847/#post-298577

[mikodo]

There's nothing Microsoft can do to pull me back. I wish them no ill will, but I'm happy where I am.

+1

I'm happy that some here that need Windows are, happy with version 10. Am I happy for MS? Nope. I couldn't care less.

I'm excited for, what Ubuntu 16.04 is going to issue in.

[Geoffrey_Arndt]

So, after running both hardware and software that I own, why would I want to go back to renting my own hardware and MS's OS - - - for a marginally better veneer than some older Linux DE's, but not necessarily all nix DE's (is Win10 really more attractive and functional than Unity or Gnome3 or Cinnamon)? Not from what I've seen - - especially with the live tiles that are like annoying animated gifs. Pass me the Aspirin please.

And Kimosabe . . . . . who wants all those annoying desktop popups from every Tom, Dyck and Hairy vendor wanting to update hardware, software, etc. rather than a unified/centralized update such as Linux has . . . no thanks. Much of that, especially over time, is still embedded into even Win10. Plus if I want to share my bandwith with fellow Ubuntu users, it's my choice, not MS's decision to create a Win update P2P network from my hardware. http://www.howtogeek.com/227827/windows-10-is-great-except-for-the-parts-that-are-terrible/

[craig10x]

You can shut off the p2p network by hitting 1 off button...not a biggie, really...as far as the tiles, i added my most used (favorite) apps to the menu and it is sort of like having a dock on the start menu...a nice, fun way to launch a program...as far as the animated tiles, just a cute feature, not something to go nuts about, really...and you could always remove those particular tiles if you wish...

Hey, a lot of users here went crazy about the "amazon lens" even though all you have to do is hit 1 button to stop it...

Really, a lot of fuss about nothing....i also shut off some of the privacy stuff i felt was not needed... the useful ones like "location" i left on so to make certain apps i use (like the weather app) more functional...
Windows has it's advantages Linux has advantages...both have certain drawbacks...neither is perfect...

I really like what Canonical has done with ubuntu and linux is great, but on the desktop, it's just really never going to amount to more then a few percent of total users...

[RichardET]

Windows has it's advantages Linux has advantages...both have certain drawbacks...neither is perfect...

I really like what Canonical has done with ubuntu and linux is great, but on the desktop, it's just really never going to amount to more then a few percent of total users...

so what is your point? follow the masses?

[vasa1]

It's odd that the Linux desktop share seems to attract so much comment. I think sociologists may be able to explain why.

[RichardET]

Because other than "true" support, very few topics are "allowed" here.

[@Tornado]

I have noticed every time Microsoft makes a new OS product it always drives some to the Linux community. It seems that people are already fed up with the Windows so they move on.

[craig10x]

@RichardET: My point was that windows will always be the biggest player (about 85% of desktop) and Mac, Chrome Os and Linux approx the other 15% or so...just the way it is ;)
That is on the desktop/laptop of course i was referring...not for other things like servers, android phones, etc...

At least (to me) privacy issues not withstanding, i think they finally got it right with windows 10 and it's the first windows that i find nice (and different) enough to actually use very comfortably...

[RichardET]

The biggest plus for Linux is price; the next is performance; the next is probably security. But the first reason is usually hidden behind the price of a new computer, thus most users see Windows as also free. All other reasons for Linux are usually meaningless to most Windows users. For whatever reason, people seem attracted to computer games; again, not a reason to move from Windows. If you have a 5+ year old computer, Linux, or a *BSD might be the answer. Newer equipment is wasted on open source OS's, due to weaker hardware support. Of course, there is always the exception, but in order for Linux to compete with Windows w.r.t hardware support, Linux now incorporates all the same proprietary binaries that Windows does, and this fact seems to be a direct contradiction to the left leaning anti-corporate views promoted by most avid FOSS users - see the blog FOSS FORCE as an example.

I honestly think most Linux users are woefully ignorant of their own OS, and would be better off with Windows, but if someone truly loves unix-like OS's in place of Windows, and is a true believer in FOSS, and all its logical implications, then seriously, the only OS left which is pure enough is Theo's - OpenBSD.
I love it, but be prepared to expect certain performance/hardware limitations, which I doubt 90+% of either Linux or Windows users ever would consider in 2015.

But if you prefer the middle, and not the extremes, then I think that Ubuntu is a reasonably good compromise. Life is good.

[Geoffrey_Arndt]

When we talk about OS's, pros and cons, we now have more options than ever.

But consider this, the choices we have now are in no way a result of anything that Microsoft or Apple have "ever" produced - in any element of their business. Instead . . . Windows 10 is finally a better product largely because of two related factors:

> The perception by some at MS that real competition is finally knocking at the door . . . the Oxen are eyeing the Cart with a non-docile look. That made Satya & company take massive customer complaints more seriously than ever before. It's not at all like the days of yore when 100k customer complaints about lack of innovation in IE6, and complaints re lack of PDF support in Word were chucked into drawer 13.

> MS, Apple and other are following closely what the Open Source Community is up to. It's become an actual force, a type of competitor worth respect. Isn't it interesting how MS finally incorporated several aspects of Ubuntu & Android into their design of Win10? Although, as this is being written, MS exec legal staff is still shaking down thousands of companies who don't want a court fight (over potentially 100% bogus software patents).

It is at best short-sighted endorse or to support any monopoly, duopoly, or OEM cartel. The result is often poor product, service and the attitude "we really do know better". There are still valid reasons for running Windows, but no valid reason for exclusive use imho.

And lastly, I'm aware that many (but not all) of the annoying features can be turned off via check-boxes, radials, etc. (but are all changes persistent?? or even certain??? - - - when the system is a true black-box).

[MartyBuntu]

Windows 10 is finally a better product...


I hear that upon every Windows release...

"But seriously guys...this time...THIS TIME... Windows REALLY nailed it!"

whatever

[mumushi2]

I went for the best of both worlds, currently dual booting Ubuntu 14.04 LTS alongside my Windows 10. And so far I can tell you that Windows 10, is a big heaping mess, although it does fix some issues with Windows 8 and adds some nice features from windows 7. I feel more at home with Ubuntu. Lastly, I'm using windows 10 on my main rig which is working out so far, only a few problems. :/ but so far, good job Microsoft, you did good and made windows 10 better than 8. And yes, windows 10 made me install Linux for more, Gray area legal work.....

[RichardET]

I went for the best of both worlds, currently dual booting Ubuntu 14.04 LTS alongside my Windows 10. And so far I can tell you that Windows 10, is a big heaping mess, although it does fix some issues with Windows 8 and adds some nice features from windows 7. I feel more at home with Ubuntu. Lastly, I'm using windows 10 on my main rig which is working out so far, only a few problems. :/ but so far, good job Microsoft, you did good and made windows 10 better than 8. And yes, windows 10 made me install Linux for more, Gray area legal work.....

I agree that it seems Win. 10 is a bit bloated!

[night_sky2]

I agree that it seems Win. 10 is a bit bloated!

Please define 'bloated'.

[RichardET]

Please define 'bloated'.

"too much of a good thing!"

Look at Xubuntu - you install it and you have a complete OS with a lightweight GUI; why can't MS do this in 2015???

[d-cosner]

I define Windows 10 as bloated! Windows 10 used 12 GB of space for the operating system alone, this is not counting all the space it will use for restore points. Ubuntu used 4 GB of space and it came complete with applications! That's an enormous difference!

[buzzingrobot]

I define Windows 10 as bloated! Windows 10 used 12 GB of space for the operating system alone, this is not counting all the space it will use for restore points. Ubuntu used 4 GB of space and it came complete with applications! That's an enormous difference!

Well, it is if you have a 20-gig drive.

For myself, I've never measured how much space anything has ever required. Never really been concerned about "bloat", whatever that is. Certainly not to the point of deciding not to use something because it was "too big". If developers wrote everything in assembly and we didn't load up OS's with non-executable things like font files and images, we'd have even less "bloat".

Software expands to use the capabilities of the machines its developers use.

[mystics]

Look at Xubuntu - you install it and you have a complete OS with a lightweight GUI; why can't MS do this in 2015???

To be fair to Microsoft, it isn't like every flavor of Ubuntu is as lightweight as Xubuntu. Xubuntu is, along Lubuntu, generally the go-to recommendation for people trying to get a more lightweight version of Ubuntu than what things like Ubuntu and Kubuntu offer. If we want to make a fair comparison in this regard, it should probably be between Windows 10 and Kubuntu.

[RichardET]

MS is strange - they want to beat Apple, but the users of MS don't want Apple, obviously, or they would go that way. Users want XP in 2015 - that's Xubuntu.

[night_sky2]

"too much of a good thing!"

Look at Xubuntu - you install it and you have a complete OS with a lightweight GUI; why can't MS do this in 2015???
Because that's what a modern OS should look like. Look at Ubuntu, OS X Yosemite too.

Windows-certified computers are designed to be able to run the OS smoothly.

While I do like lightweight desktop environments, you have to realize that the computing world is evolving.

[monkeybrain20122]

To be fair to Microsoft, it isn't like every flavor of Ubuntu is as lightweight as Xubuntu. Xubuntu is, along Lubuntu, generally the go-to recommendation for people trying to get a more lightweight version of Ubuntu than what things like Ubuntu and Kubuntu offer. If we want to make a fair comparison in this regard, it should probably be between Windows 10 and Kubuntu.

Full blown Ubuntu install takes about 5 G. Any *buntu is more lightweight than Windows. My Ubuntu 15.04 / partition is < 20G but that is after installing so much crap that I can't even keep track on (including third party stuffs and some very big software I compiled from source, the repo versions are a lot smaller because they are chopped up in pieces). For Win just the OS and maybe a few applications would exceed that.

[night_sky2]

With the average low-end laptop now having from 250 to 500 GB of hard drive space, I don't think it really matters if the OS takes 5 or ~18 GB upon installation.

Besides, you can get a full-blown 1TB external USB drive for about 50$ these days.

[RichardET]

Because that's what a modern OS should look like. Look at Ubuntu, OS X Yosemite too.

Windows-certified computers are designed to be able to run the OS smoothly.

While I do like lightweight desktop environments, you have to realize that the computing world is evolving.


If you "need" a specialized environment, which is resource hungry, say a 3D rendering environment doing storm models, fine, build that application.
But the day to day OS should not be that bloated, unless of course, you want to create full employment with useless support staff.

[buzzingrobot]

Still don't understand why there's all this fixation on "lightweight". ;)

If software runs too slowly on your hardware, you can either buy more capable hardware or find software that runs faster. The size of the files on disk has little or nothing to do with performance. There's no particular virtue in small file size unless you are stuck with antiquated hardware, or are one of those who creates a too-tiny partition for your OS and associated apps.

Few developers have any incentive to create software that's optimized for last decade's hardware. In the final analysis, software capabilities are shaped and bounded by hardware capabilities. Developers will leverage any new hardware capabilities, especially if they are commercial developers.

[Welly Wu]

Windows 10 is a credible threat to Linux and BSD. Microsoft adopted some of the features in OS X, Linux, and BSD to varying degrees and put them into Win10. It is approaching 100.00 million installations in less than three months. I don't see any Linux or BSD distribution with those kinds of numbers. Market share is important because companies are not going to waste their time and money to port software to Linux or BSD across the board.

Windows 10 is succeeding wildly beyond most people's expectations after Windows 8.1. It's going to be a very tough case for Linux and BSD users not to notice and to compete directly against it. Basically, Win10 leaves Linux and BSD in the dust bin.

[QIII]

OK. I now have an anecdotal case. Our network admin asked me to help him decide between installing Ubuntu or Mint at home because he does not want to upgrade to Win 10.

So there is at least one case.

But remember, we also have people here who throw their hands in the air and go back to Windows.

[Frogs Hair]

A certain % have returned to their previous versions of Windows due to problems and then there are those have installed more than once trying to get it to work properly. The number of installations is sounds impressive, but not compared to the number non windows devices that people use to access information and communicate.

[QDR06VV9]

But remember, we also have people here who throw their hands in the air and go back to Windows.
Sad but true!
You know the thing is they just did not jump on a windows machine and know the inner-workings or with skilled know how, It took a lot of effort and reading and calls to their
"So Called" support lines.
With that same commitment they would be very happy with a Linux OS.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Regards

[QIII]

Windows 10 is a credible threat to Linux and BSD. Microsoft adopted some of the features in OS X, Linux, and BSD to varying degrees and put them into Win10. It is approaching 100.00 million installations in less than three months. I don't see any Linux or BSD distribution with those kinds of numbers. Market share is important because companies are not going to waste their time and money to port software to Linux or BSD across the board.

Windows 10 is succeeding wildly beyond most people's expectations after Windows 8.1. It's going to be a very tough case for Linux and BSD users not to notice and to compete directly against it. Basically, Win10 leaves Linux and BSD in the dust bin.

I don't agree that this is a threat. It's a non sequitur -- specifically, it's the fallacy of affirming the consequent.

If people are leaving Linux, then they are installing Win 10. People are installing Win 10. Therefore, people are leaving Linux.

There is also an assumption that Win 10 installs are new Windows users. Those installations are probably virtually all upgrades from Windows to Windows -- by which I mean there is no market share change. That isn't any different than Ubuntu users uprading to the next release.

I don't think Win 10 will drive people to Linux in significant numbers, nor do I think Windows will poach Linux users.

[Mike_Walsh]

I have to admit, my take on all this is quite simple.

I've heard on many occasions, here on the Forums, 'use whatever OS and/or desktop works for you.' I would absolutely endorse that. After 15 months of attempting to make Skype work properly under Linux (several different flavours), I've re-installed Win XP Pro on an old laptop, simply for Skype.....because I have several acquaintances who have no intentions of trying to use anything else.....and the CD was sitting in the back of a drawer, gathering dust!

It's locked down tighter than a nun's chastity belt, and I don't use it for anything else other than Skype. But for everything else, it's Xubuntu and/or Puppy Linux for me; I can achieve everything I need to on a daily basis with these two excellent distros. I'm a convert, no doubt about it; but many people just want to use their apps and/or programs.....they couldn't care less about the privacy issues.

I honestly don't think MS have a thing to worry about. And I also think it's only 'geeks' like us on the Forums (who know enough about the nuts & bolts of the mechanisms), who even understand about the privacy issues, and 'remote-control' capabilities of Win 10.....enough, anyway, to be concerned about them.

The cloud is the direction everything is heading in, there's no doubt about it. But, like some other posters on this thread, I don't see why I should be charged, at some point in the future, to be able to view and use my own material. Which is why I shall always maintain at least one machine with my own local storage, for my own stuff.....hard drives are, after all, cheap enough to obtain nowadays.


Regards,

Mike. ;)

[Welly Wu]

The biggest stumbling block is learning something new and different and not necessarily about Linux. I would not want to pay for an Apple Mac Pro and have to learn OS X as a new user. I would also not want to buy a new Windows 10 PC and learn how to use it either even though I am more familiar with Windows than Mac. Do you blame the companies or the user? I'm not blaming myself for not wanting to buy a new Windows 10 desktop PC because it does not respect my privacy compared to Linux. At least with Ubuntu, I can turn off the invasive features with a simple click of a button. Windows 10 makes me fight against Microsoft to turn off some of those invasive features and it can not be turned off easily or completely.

It's not the fault of Linux that people don't want to learn it and go back to Windows. People are lazy and we expect a push button style of using our devices that is easy and simple. Nobody wants to have to work hard and commit to a different desktop or mobile OS when they already have devices that they are comfortable with. Blame the user.

Linux is not for everybody. It requires more focus and commitment to learning and it's not pervasive enough in most countries especially here in the USA where someone can go to a local linux user group and learn the ropes within a short commute. *NIX like OSes are not as easy as Windows and Apple products are expensive to learn their stuff in a walled garden. Yet, people love their Macs and they keep buying their stuff.

This is where market share plays an important role. Microsoft customers are going to get tier one help and support in this country. Almost every conceivable piece of hardware and software targets Windows. You can't fault people for being bombarded by advertisements and the tech media for pandering to their advertisers. It's an incredibly steep climb for Linux users to climb up and compete on technical meritocracy alone.

[Welly Wu]

QIII:

I seriously disagree. I have a tough time convincing my friends to stick with Linux even though I gave them hardware and software plus my support for it. Now, my friends are buying Windows 10 laptops or at least shopping around for a good deal. They don't get Linux and it can't run their favorite software. So, they will spend their own money to get a Windows 10 laptop because they want to play PC games and communicate with friends using Windows apps. This means that their Linux laptops are going in their closets to collect dust.

Windows 10 is going to be the death knell for Linux and BSD when people in our lives switch away from Linux because they are not hardcore Linux geeks like us here at UF. They just want a computer that meets their needs without costing them too much time and money or support. Windows 10 fits their bill nicely. This is going to be a consistent pattern in the foreseeable future. Even I have to admit that Win10 is the best version and it will be the final version. From now on, it's just going to be Windows if Microsoft has their way.

You got to be a dedicated Linux or BSD geek to keep using it. Otherwise, Windows or Mac are better suited for more people because the advertisers keep telling people what computer they should buy next.

[QDR06VV9]

Why are we trying to find Fault?
There is an old saying in our family "Fault lays where you place it."
To be really Honest here I don't care if People use or like Linux.
I will just use it anyway. And Always will.
Kind Regards

[Welly Wu]

runrickus:

People like you illustrate my point clearly. Yet, UF members are in the minority compared to Apple and Microsoft customers worldwide.

I just don't see any major changes to the status quo for the foreseeable future. Win10 is going to make Microsoft great again and cool. Apple customers are going to love their OS X and iOS and not budge. Linux and BSD users are going to stay in the low minorities.

Win10 will be the catalyst that Microsoft needs to regain the hearts and minds of PC users worldwide again. It will be the dominant platform by which trillions of dollars in future revenues and profits are generated for years to come. Outside of UF, people are upgrading or switching to Win10 at a faster rate than Linux and BSD users. Win10 is light years ahead of Ubuntu and I paid for it. If it were not for the invasive privacy concerns, I'd switch to it in a heartbeat.

Robert W. had his accountants tell him that he needs TaxCut 2015 or TurboTax 2015 to manage his sister's estate and he needs Office 2013 or 2016 for his attorneys to send him Office documents to sign in two weeks. Veronica C. wants to use Win10 because her boyfriend is going to upgrade from Win7 to Win10 to play DirectX 12 PC games and she wants to use the same OS as her boyfriend to keep in touch with him. Vincent V. wants to upgrade to Win10 to play the latest Steam PC games. Larry wants a Win10 PC because he doesn't get Ubuntu. All of them are buying Win10 laptops in a month or so. All of them are ditching their Ubuntu Linux laptops by the end of this year or they will give them away to their friends that need a new PC but can not afford to buy one. Linux is a third or fourth rate OS with no value for my friends compared to Win10.

[Mike_Walsh]

Windows 10 certainly won't be driving me into the arms of Linux. I'm here already; I'm enjoying the scenery, the atmosphere.....and the company.

Win 10 may well be the dominant force for years to come. But, Skype aside, I haven't the faintest interest in any of MS's products. And unlike some of the posters in this thread, I don't have sizeable amounts of cash to throw around...


Robert W. had his accountants tell him that he needs TaxCut 2015 or TurboTax 2015 to manage his sister's estate and he needs Office 2013 or 2016 for his attorneys to send him Office documents to sign in two weeks. Veronica C. wants to use Win10 because her boyfriend is going to upgrade from Win7 to Win10 to play DirectX 12 PC games and she wants to use the same OS as her boyfriend to keep in touch with him. Vincent V. wants to upgrade to Win10 to play the latest Steam PC games. Larry wants a Win10 PC because he doesn't get Ubuntu. All of them are buying Win10 laptops in a month or so. All of them are ditching their Ubuntu Linux laptops by the end of this year or they will give them away to their friends that need a new PC but can not afford to buy one. Linux is a third or fourth rate OS with no value for my friends compared to Win10.

Illustrates my point nicely. Most people want what they're comfortable with.....and haven't the faintest intention of trying to learn anything new. And they all want to be like their friends; just 'part of the crowd'. And if they want to do business with companies of any sort, they have to use what those companies dictate.....since they're not going to change their set-ups to accommodate individuals. This is understood, and for the most part, accepted.

These are the folks who have helped to make MS the corporate giant it now is.


Regards,

Mike. :)

[monkeybrain20122]

Yes, once the pay for services hit home many would realise the Win10 'free' upgrade is a scam. The clippy was annoying, but Win10's intrusiveness is a 100 times worse. I agree with Qill that a lot of Win 10 adoptions are at the expense of Win 7 and 8 (Vista) because of the 'free' upgrade,--Trojan horses always work,--so overall Windows usage is likely to be the same (of course if you buy new machines the default would be Win 10. OEM deals should be outlawed in order to stop monopolies)

[QDR06VV9]

It is true that Value is seen in the Eye of the Beholder.
That dose not set it in concrete though.
All of The 50 plus installs for Friends are still going Strong, And I find Substitutes for Programs they need.(There is always a way)
None of them have hinted about Wanting Windows 10. Even though I gave it Props in the Beginning.
I like your passion though.

[monkeybrain20122]

Windows 10 is going to be the death knell for Linux and BSD
...
Win10 is light years ahead of Ubuntu and I paid for it. If it were not for the invasive privacy concerns, I'd switch to it in a heartbeat.



Please. Ever the master of hyperbole. I don't know how many people would take these assertions seriously. Oh and if you want to switch to Win 10, by all means. At least hopefully you won't be here posting your shopping lists if you no longer use Ubuntu. You may get some fans in MS's forums:)



Robert W. had his accountants tell him that he needs TaxCut 2015 or TurboTax 2015 to manage his sister's estate and he needs Office 2013 or 2016 for his attorneys to send him Office documents to sign in two weeks. Veronica C. wants to use Win10 because her boyfriend is going to upgrade from Win7 to Win10 to play DirectX 12 PC games and she wants to use the same OS as her boyfriend to keep in touch with him. Vincent V. wants to upgrade to Win10 to play the latest Steam PC games. Larry wants a Win10 PC because he doesn't get Ubuntu. All of them are buying Win10 laptops in a month or so. All of them are ditching their Ubuntu Linux laptops by the end of this year or they will give them away to their friends that need a new PC but can not afford to buy one. Linux is a third or fourth rate OS with no value for my friends compared to Win10.

Hahaha, this is just hilarious. Why Taxcut 2015 and not 2014 or 2012? And why Office 2016? I don't believe your regular users are so particular about versions. And I have no idea how all of these have to do with Win 10, these are Windows only programs. If you cannot do without them then you need Windows, whether Vista or Win 10. As for "All of them are buying Win 10 laptops" all retail laptops in the stores come with Windows so may as well be Win 10, it is not like you have to go out of your way to get a "Windows 10 laptop" (well unless you get a Mac) Oh I like the way you name names as if we are going to check to see if you made them up.

Win10 is a threat to Linux, but not because of what you think. It is because of the ongoing UEFI/secure boot shenanigans which make it difficult for novice to try out Linux or dualbooting. OEM should be outlawed.

[night_sky2]

Win10 is a threat to Linux, but not because of what you think. It is because of the ongoing UEFI/secure boot shenanigans which make it difficult for novice to try out Linux or dualbooting. OEM should be outlawed.
It's a myth, really. Major distributions such Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, OpenSuSe, Red Hat all support UEFI Secure Boot since they are using signed digital keys.

So I think it's fair to say that the novice will not have much diffculties installing Linux on his Windows 10 laptop.

[night_sky2]

I've heard on many occasions, here on the Forums, 'use whatever OS and/or desktop works for you.' I would absolutely endorse that. After 15 months of attempting to make Skype work properly under Linux (several different flavours), I've re-installed Win XP Pro on an old laptop, simply for Skype.....because I have several acquaintances who have no intentions of trying to use anything else.....and the CD was sitting in the back of a drawer, gathering dust!

It's locked down tighter than a nun's chastity belt, and I don't use it for anything else other than Skype. But for everything else, it's Xubuntu and/or Puppy Linux for me; I can achieve everything I need to on a daily basis with these two excellent distros. I'm a convert, no doubt about it; but many people just want to use their apps and/or programs.....they couldn't care less about the privacy issues.
You can still get security updates on Windows XP until 2019. Just saying. ;)

<snip>

[mystics]

To be really Honest here I don't care if People use or like Linux.
I will just use it anyway. And Always will.
Kind Regards

I have to agree.

It isn't like Linux suddenly woke up one day and realized that it was no longer the dominant consumer-level desktop OS. It's been a minor player for years. And if Linux has been able to survive this long as a minor desktop OS, I don't see Windows 10 changing that. It'll hardly be a death knell, just business as usual.

And as long as I can use Linux, I'll be happy. It doesn't matter if it only has 1-2% market share or 90% market share. As long as Linux users are pleased with Linux and Windows users are pleased with Windows, things will be good. And with Microsoft making more and more of their stuff available for non-Windows users, either natively or online, it doesn't look like we'll be seriously suffering for lack of Windows to run Microsoft products eventually.

[QIII]

night_sky2:

You can get those updates ... by making registry changes to masquerade as having a version you did not pay for.

From the Ubuntu Forums Rules (http://ubuntuforums.org/misc.php?do=showrules):


We do not support circumventing TOS, EULA, etc here.

I have removed your link. Please take the time to familiarize yourself with the Forum Rules.

Thanks.

[monkeybrain20122]

It's a myth, really. Major distributions such Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, OpenSuSe, Red Hat all support UEFI Secure Boot since they are using signed digital keys.

So I think it's fair to say that the novice will not have much diffculties installing Linux on his Windows 10 laptop.

Major distros 'support' secure boot because they pay for a MS key. That means they are at the mercy of MS, which can, theoretically revoke the key any time under some pretext. Why do you think it is OK that MS controls what you can boot on your hardware? Why would you think we should give it that power? What about not so 'major' distros which have not/will not play the game? Do their users not count? The principle is just wrong and I would be equally furious if Canonical tries to get its OEMs (e.g System76) to lock out smaller distros in this way.

Moreover, even with the key the process of booting under secure boot is not necessarily smooth, as many threads here show. Oldfred always posts a lot of links pertaining to problems encountered in specific models and their workarounds on these threads, they are not always straight forward.

Given MS's track record of trying to lock down hardware (look up "trusted computing') it is obvious what it tries to accomplish, but not all at once so that it won't get the opposition it did with trusted computing. Sorry, there is no "New Microsoft", it is just PR for naive people. It is the same monopolistic predator.If it succeeds it will be because of our complacency.

[QIII]

Here we are, talking about Microsoft again.

Once more, for those who missed it: The topic is whether Win 10 is driving people to install Linux.

Microsoft bashing is a no-go. Please bear that in mind.

[Irihapeti]

Thread closed, due to difficulty in keeping it on topic.