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View Full Version : Windows 10 gets broken - Ooooooooops



richlion2
August 11th, 2015, 12:02 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/11/windows-10-broken-update-endless-reboot-loop

hattpa
August 11th, 2015, 12:18 PM
That's only one of many problems for Windows 10

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/05/windows_10_wipes_child_safety_settings_upgrade/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/03/windows_10_privacy_defaults/

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/30/technology/windows10-wifi-sense/

and on and on with different concerns and problems.

Microsoft are doing what they do best, release buggy software and restrict our freedom to use our computers

portalhavoc
August 11th, 2015, 12:24 PM
What can I say? Windows can get broken easily. :P

Maybe this website will help solve your problem. :lol:

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop


P.S. I never really trusted Microsoft anyway. Despite growing up with Windows XP. (Ubuntu wasn't even out yet when I first went onto the internet in 2003/2004.)

hattpa
August 11th, 2015, 02:01 PM
What can I say? Windows can get broken easily. :P

Maybe this website will help solve your problem. :lol:

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop


P.S. I never really trusted Microsoft anyway. Despite growing up with Windows XP. (Ubuntu wasn't even out yet when I first went onto the internet in 2003/2004.)

Some of us old fogies can remember the days even before XP...I go back to DOS 3.2 :icon_frown: probably the best thing to come from microsoft.

First got on the internet in 1995 using a14400 baud modem, and I wouldn't mind betting there are a few here who go back a bit more

tgalati4
August 11th, 2015, 02:37 PM
I think Windows 3.1 was the most stable version of Windows ever released.

v3.xx
August 11th, 2015, 02:55 PM
Had we went with CPM instead of DOS, I wonder where we would of been today. Maybe 512 bit instead of 64 :)

HermanAB
August 11th, 2015, 07:55 PM
Well, I found a FTP authentication bug in Win10 that goes back to 2005. So you really should not expect too much from the latest MS toy. They try their best to make people think that they are releasing something shiny and new, but it is really just incremental changes to the same old crusty code, with a few new bugs added just for fun.

lisati
August 11th, 2015, 08:42 PM
First got on the internet in 1995 using a14400 baud modem, and I wouldn't mind betting there are a few here who go back a bit more

*cough* Paper tape, punched cards, line printers...... :D

portalhavoc
August 11th, 2015, 08:56 PM
*cough* Paper tape, punched cards, line printers...... :D

That stuff is way before my time. (I'm only 14. I was born during a time where people were getting rid of their old dial-up modems and replacing them with high speed broadband cable modems.)

CharlesA
August 12th, 2015, 06:23 AM
Well, I found a FTP authentication bug in Win10 that goes back to 2005. So you really should not expect too much from the latest MS toy. They try their best to make people think that they are releasing something shiny and new, but it is really just incremental changes to the same old crusty code, with a few new bugs added just for fun.

Edge seems to be decent so far, but I only use it for my school's website since it seemed to like IE more than Firefox (at that time at least, they've done some updates since).

I can remember using a 286 running DOS or Win 3.1 and using it to look up a card catalog at school. Pretty crazy to think how far we have advanced technologically in 20 years.

lisati
August 12th, 2015, 06:28 AM
I recall having a reboot loop on XP after installing XP's SP3 on one machine - turned out that the Ubuntu dual-boot installation I'd just done was a red herring; that particular machine's OEM copy of XP needed a patch before installing SP3.

Had we went with CPM instead of DOS, I wonder where we would of been today. Maybe 512 bit instead of 64 :)
I read somewhere, many years ago now, that some of DOS's features were inspired by some of CP/M's features, e.g. the need for .COM programs to start at offset 0x100 rather than 0x00.

mastablasta
August 12th, 2015, 07:11 AM
well one only needs to look at these forums unsolved threads or bugzilla to see the issues plaguing Ubuntu.

and updates breaking desktop and such are nothing uncommon on Linux.

mystics
August 12th, 2015, 07:41 AM
Edge seems to be decent so far, but I only use it for my school's website since it seemed to like IE more than Firefox (at that time at least, they've done some updates since).

Reminds me of sections on my school's housing website. A few years ago, the only web browser they supported was IE. Thankfully, by the time I joined, they had finally added Firefox support. Last I checked, they still didn't support Chrome, but I think they may have added that this summer.


well one only needs to look at these forums unsolved threads or bugzilla to see the issues plaguing Ubuntu.

and updates breaking desktop and such are nothing uncommon on Linux.

The difference being, we don't have to take the updates if we hear about the problems in time. I'm pretty sure most people understand that updates for any piece of software can break something. The thing is, in many cases, we have the power to put off the update if we know it has known issues that break things we want or need. Windows 10 doesn't offer that to every user, and problems like this just show why such a system is a bad idea.

CharlesA
August 12th, 2015, 07:57 AM
Reminds me of sections on my school's housing website. A few years ago, the only web browser they supported was IE. Thankfully, by the time I joined, they had finally added Firefox support. Last I checked, they still didn't support Chrome, but I think they may have added that this summer.

I think it was something like that to start with where they had features that worked better in IE than the other browsers. Besides, if I have problems with the site, support always has me clear the cookies/cache so all my saved junk goes bye bye :p

monkeybrain20122
August 12th, 2015, 08:14 AM
The difference being, we don't have to take the updates if we hear about the problems in time. I'm pretty sure most people understand that updates for any piece of software can break something. The thing is, in many cases, we have the power to put off the update if we know it has known issues that break things we want or need. Windows 10 doesn't offer that to every user, and problems like this just show why such a system is a bad idea.

And the worst case scenario, clean up and reinstall. Don't have to buy a new license even though official update blows your system (or to go through lots of aggravations to get the fee waived) Keep a separate /home and clone the / (typically small) helps to recover. BTW, it is not so common that a routine Ubuntu update would screw the whole system like that. Break some apps, perhaps.

Keep in mind that MS has a lot of man power and resources. Practically all hardware manufactures, OEMs and big software vendors (like Adobe) are working with it (or for it) and it charges a lot for *leasing* its OS. Kind of poor excuse to say Linux updates also mess things up from time to time.

mastablasta
August 12th, 2015, 08:53 AM
The difference being, we don't have to take the updates if we hear about the problems in time. I'm pretty sure most people understand that updates for any piece of software can break something. The thing is, in many cases, we have the power to put off the update if we know it has known issues that break things we want or need. Windows 10 doesn't offer that to every user, and problems like this just show why such a system is a bad idea.

agree 100%. and I think this is why enterprise edition has option to turn off auto update and tracking of data sent to "trusted" partners (whomever they might be). now I imagine our company's 5000+ PCs doing the loop... :D
also imagine company leaking design data to competition. we'd be out of business in a year.

I am not sure why MS thought users might find this acceptable. but then again there is Android who is also collecting.

buzzingrobot
August 12th, 2015, 12:22 PM
Re: DOS 3.2 -- A very good DOS, but even the best DOS couldn't do much. Just one thing at a time. DOS was a deadend.

AT&T and others made efforts during the heyday of DOS to market Unix-based PC's. And Microsoft sold it's Unix for PC's -- Xenix -- for a considerable number of years. PC Unix never really gained any traction as the advantages of Unix as an operating system didn't really matter to the business-oriented PC user.

Windows 3.1 was a 16-bit GUI overlay that ran on DOS. The fact that it was very successful is evidence that technical sophistication doesn't sell hardware or software.

Auto-updates for Home Edition users of Win10 makes sense to me. Few consumers have any legitimate ability to be in charge of their own updates. As in Ubuntu, users often alter their system in some way that's going to cause update trouble in the future, then blame Windows or Ubuntu when that happens.

Users also have a responsibility to not let their machines become malware distribution points that attack other users. Mandatory updates should mitigate that.

Enterprise users pay to control their own environments, and that includes the ability to stage and push updates on their own schedule. *Users* in those enterprises have no more say in how and when updates happen than Win10 Home users.

Data collection: If you want Cortana or Siri or Google to do something like remind you to call your mom when you walk in the front door after work next Tuesday, then you need to allow your software to be as "invasive" as it needs to be to enable all that. Or not. Just remember that nothing is free.

CharlesA
August 12th, 2015, 05:16 PM
Data collection: If you want Cortana or Siri or Google to do something like remind you to call your mom when you walk in the front door after work next Tuesday, then you need to allow your software to be as "invasive" as it needs to be to enable all that. Or not. Just remember that nothing is free.

I think that's the whole thing behind it. You pay for convenience or whatever with your information. Some of that information should have a higher "price" than others. Your name vs your location, for example - your name might not be unique, but if you allow the collection of your location data, it can paint a picture of where you go, who you might be seeing, etc.

As far as the automatic updates go, it seems like a good idea overall, but I don't really like the idea of being unable to postpone those updates. With that said, I run Windows 7 Pro on my main machine, so upgrading it to 10 would give me the "Pro" edition, which handles updates differently from the "Home" edition. Overall, I think it is a better solution to ensure as many users are possible are up-to-date with patches instead of having to rely on the user to allow the install, just ignore it even if it keeps nagging them, or even turn off automatic updates if it gets on their nerves.

Old_Printer
August 16th, 2015, 03:06 AM
This might be interesting, or maybe not. I think I did a clean install of Windows 10 by accident, with full activation when it was all done. A friend brought over his laptop for a restoration. The problem was, his machine didn't have a recovery partition. He bought it a couple of years ago from one of his friends. Her name was on the install and he simply added an additional admin account for himself. Anyway, this thing barely crawled. The Norton subscription was well passed being expired. I download AVG just to help get some of the malware or tracking bugs off of it. AVG wouldn't even complete the installation and I ended up in loop with it. Weird.

It took about five minutes to get to the control panel to see what was all installed on it. It was loaded with factory software and such, but nothing presented itself as being nasty. I didn't want to use any of my Windows 7 keys, and besides, I didn't have a key to match his version that was listed under My Computer / Properties. To make things worse, the license sticker was gone from the bottom of the machine. I figured I might as well see if I can get Windows 10 on it and maybe the installation would clean up the issue. I had a USB drive that I loaded with the Windows 10 download from MS. It took a while, but I had the installation complete and the activation was inherited. Cool, but it still crawled like a snail.

I was pretty convinced I would need to format the drive and load one of my Windows 7 platforms, losing one of my keys. Before I did that, I remembered a feature that was present on one of my other Windows 10 installs while booting. I don't remember the exact choice right at this moment, but I believe, at booting, I could go either to Windows 10 or System Recovery. I chose Recovery. I then chose to revert to a previous build. What previous build? Beats me, but I had nothing to lose. I clicked on it. About 30 to 40 minutes later the swirling and waiting produced a perfect Windows 10 installation that was very quick and responsive, had inherited the activation from the original Windows 7 install, and also displayed a completely fulfilled Device Manager. Cool. I went to the Control Panel and discovered that only two programs were installed. There was the ATI display driver and something else, whatever it was. All the rest of the software was gone. The owner told me up front that there was nothing on the machine to worry about losing.

I don't know what happened, but it looked clean to me. It sure runs smoothly. I had to input his name and everything while reverting to the "previous build." Whatever happened, the machine now has a full version of Windows 10 with no trouble from the ugly mess that existed before the install.

Old_Printer

rebusgadfly
August 21st, 2015, 10:31 PM
I was part of the windows insiders program since its conception. WIn10 made a lot progress but that is not saying much. It is the buggiest piece of garbage. I got so feed up with microsoft 10 that I dropped out of the program and took the plunge to Linux. I am so happy with the switch. It feels like home.