Chromium & Opera Browsers & Links with Chrome & Google

[taipan4000]

Given that the Chromium & Opera web browsers are "effectively" forks of the Chrome browser software, when people use either Chromium or Opera do these browsers send user data to Google the same way Chrome does?

[grahammechanical]

Opera web browsers are "effectively" forks of the Chrome browser software,

I am not convinced that is true. There was an Opera web browser long before Google was even thought of.


Later versions of Opera gave the user the choice of seeing banner ads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_ad) or targeted text advertisements from Google (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google). With version 8.5 (released in 2005) the advertisements were removed entirely and primary financial support for the browser came through revenue from Google (which is by contract Opera's default search engine).[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(web_browser)#cite_note-17)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(web_browser)


On 12 February 2013, Opera announced it would drop its own Presto engine in favour of WebKit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit) as implemented by Google'sChrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome) browser, using code from the Chromium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)) project. Opera Software also planned to contribute code to WebKit.[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(web_browser)#cite_note-ars-prestowebkit-30) On 3 April 2013, Google announced that it would fork components from WebKit to form a new rendering engine known as Blink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blink_(layout_engine)); the same day, Opera confirmed that it would follow Google in implementing Blink.

The use of WebKit does not make it a "fork" of Chrome.


WebKit's HTML and JavaScript code was originally a fork (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(software_development)) of the KHTML (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KHTML) and KJS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KJS_(KDE)) libraries from KDE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE),[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit#cite_note-6) and has now been further developed by individuals from KDE, Apple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc.), Google (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google), Nokia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia), Bitstream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_browser), BlackBerry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_Ltd), Igalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igalia), and others.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit#cite_note-7) OS X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X), Windows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows), Linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux), and some other Unix-like (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix-like) operating systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system) are supported by the project.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit#cite_note-webkitsite-8) On April 3, 2013, Google announced that it had forked WebCore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebCore), a component of WebKit to be used in future versions of Google Chrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome) and Opera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(web_browser)) under the name Blink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blink_(layout_engine)).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit

None of this proves that Webkit and WebCore based browsers are some sort of spyware. Open source code from all kinds of open source software projects are used In Ubuntu all the time. This is what the Ubuntu Web Browser (A.K.A., Browser) is based on.

http://www.chriscoulson.me.uk/blog/?p=196

Regards.

[craig10x]

I'm pretty sure i read that Opera is now using a chromium base for their browser...

[coldcritter64]

I'm pretty sure i read that Opera is now using a chromium base for their browser...

Maybe this ...


On 28 May 2013, a beta release of Opera 15 was made available,[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_%28web_browser%29#cite_note-32) the first version based on the Chromium project.[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_%28web_browser%29#cite_note-33)[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_%28web_browser%29#cite_note-34) Many distinctive features of the previous versions were dropped, and Opera Mail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_Mail) was separated into a standalone application derived from Opera 12.[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_%28web_browser%29#cite_note-35)
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_%28web_browser%29

[taipan4000]

Thanks for the all replies. In hindsight, referring to Opera & Chromium as being "effective" forks of Chrome was a poor choice of words on my behalf but I wanted to write the question quickly and that's why the word effectively was enclosed by quotation marks. Yes, me using the word fork was definitely the wrong thing to do. If nothing else, I now know more that I did before I posted the poorly worded question.

[vasa1]

... If nothing else, I now know more that I did before I posted the poorly worded question.
Even non-Chromium-based browsers can send information to Google (or anywhere else). It depends on the sites you visit, the search engines you use, etc, etc, etc.

Just for fun, you could install something like Ghostery (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ghostery/) or Lightbeam (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/lightbeam/) to know how visiting a site can be recorded.

BTW, I know it's extremely unfashionable to say so, but I'm unaware of being affected by all the information my ISP, the State, Google or any other organization has acquired about me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcSlowAhvUk

[Frogs Hair]

Been using Opera developer and unlike other chromium based browsers I've tried it's not tied to the chrome web store for themes and extensions but this has little to do with the tracking the search engine uses.


Even non-Chromium-based browsers can send information to Google

Agreed

[Tar_Ni]

Given that the Chromium & Opera web browsers are "effectively" forks of the Chrome browser software, when people use either Chromium or Opera do these browsers send user data to Google the same way Chrome does?

Actually, it is Chrome and Opera that use Chromium as a basis. Chrome is basically a rebranding of Chromium + embedded flash player and the auto-updater for Windows & Mac.

Both Chromium or Opera doesn't send data to Google per se, but beware that once you use any Google services (including Google Search shipped as default in Chromium) then it no longer matter what browser your are using. So, yeah Chromium is open source and the source code can be verified has been free of any kind of trackers but the same cannot be done with Chrome as it is proprietary. Opera neither but since the compagny is based in Norway and their record on privacy is not bad, I think their browser can be more 'trusted' than Google Chrome.

Another option might be the SRWare Iron browser. It's a German compagny providing an open-source browser based on Chromium. The Iron Browser aims to be a private alternative to Google Chrome and is available for Linux Ubuntu.

From their website:

''Google's Web browser Chrome thrilled with an extremely fast site rendering, a sleek design and innovative features. But it also gets critic from data protection specialists , for reasons such as creating a unique user ID or the submission of entries to Google to generate suggestions. SRWare Iron is a real alternative. The browser is based on the Chromium-source and offers the same features as Chrome - but without the critical points that the privacy concern.''

The Link: http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php

[vasa1]

I will never use SRWare Iron.

[Tar_Ni]

I will never use SRWare Iron.

Any particular reason?

The browser is not very popular on Linux, since Chromium can be easily installed by the laymen. But on Windows & Mac, if one wants to get away from Google but does not want to give up the comfort of using a Chromium browser, I think it is a good alternative. I am now more of a Firefox user myself so I don't see the need of using it, but the idea of a 'Chrome without Google' out the box is not without interest.

[vasa1]

Any particular reason?
...
Oh, several. If you search wilderssecurity.com, you'll find links on the subject from a few years ago.

My personal one is that I haven't experienced any downside by being "tracked" by Google so far; if I do, I'll stop :)

I suspect quite a lot of the hype against tracking or profiling comes from agents of companies whose business model is being affected by Google's ad-based model.

To repeat, I'll never use SRWare Iron. I'll also never recommend it to others.

BTW, the home page for that browser is quite ad-filled. There's even a googleads.g.doublclick.net ad :) Nice business model that :)

[Tar_Ni]

Oh, several. If you search wilderssecurity.com, you'll find links on the subject from a few years ago.

The main critic I can find about SWRIron is that you could in fact tweak Google Chrome to achieve the same privacy standard. While it may well be true, there is still a part of Chrome's source code which remains unknown and it is still a matter of trusting Google that there is nothing shaddy to it. What SWIron do is simply fetching a stable built of Chromium for you, removing any single element tied to Google and offering it out of the box for download rebranded as the Iron browser.


My personal one is that I haven't experienced any downside by being "tracked" by Google so far; if I do, I'll stop :)

Their very business model is based on tracking and data mining which I find very concerning. The right for privacy is not something I am willing to give up. Thankfully there are alternatives.


I suspect quite a lot of the hype against tracking or profiling comes from agents of companies whose business model is being affected by Google's ad-based model.

I agree that it is ironic that they should use Google's ads program on their website. However, if the idea is to make some useful money (similar to the Mozilla foundation in shipping Google's search engine as default) to help finance this project than I can understand better the point of doing this. The Iron browser does provide a built-in adblocker though and at some point Iron came with Ghostery too if I remember. So, these ads quickly disappear. ;)


To repeat, I'll never use SRWare Iron. I'll also never recommend it to others.

A matter of opinion. I personally wouldn't recommend Google Chrome to anyone who care about privacy.

[Daveski17]

I used to use SRWare Iron (on Windows), in fact I used it before I ever used Chrome. There's nothing wrong with it as a browser, and in my experience most of its detractors are Google fanboys, who for some reason like to cast aspersions on it. My only gripe with Iron is that it was a tad buggy. I have Firefox as my default browser on Ubuntu but I quite like Chromium as back-up. I also have a Nexus 7 tablet and have no real problem using Google services, bearing in mind the tracking issue.

As for Google tracking, take a butcher's hook at these links:

http://donttrack.us/

http://dontbubble.us/

There are always alternative search engines.

[Tar_Ni]

There are always alternative search engines.

Startpage (by Ixquick) works magic for me. It's very hard to give up Google Search, what Starpage does is to remove all identifying informations and submit your search quiery anonymously to Google. They send you back the results privately, without recording any kind of data.

For more on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJupFsVaS5M

[Daveski17]

Startpage (by Ixquick) works magic for me. It's very hard to give up Google Search, what Starpage does is to remove all identifying informations and submit your search quiery anonymously to Google. They send you back the results privately, without recording any kind of data.

For more on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJupFsVaS5M

Yes, Start Page is my default search engine on Firefox.

[vasa1]

Is the source code for SRWare Iron accessible to anyone? Is SRWare Iron 100% open source? What license does it come under? I'm asking out of academic interest since I have absolutely no interest in using it but others maybe interested in knowing the truth.

[Daveski17]

Is the source code for SRWare Iron accessible to anyone? Is SRWare Iron 100% open source? What license does it come under? I'm asking out of academic interest since I have absolutely no interest in using it but others maybe interested in knowing the truth.

Is SRWare Iron's source code accessability really relevant in reality? Is Google Chrome 100% open source? What is the issue with the licence and is that really relevant? I'm only asking out of curiosity. I have used Iron in the past, there is no conspiracy and it is freeware. Just what is the 'truth' about SRWare Iron?

There is no subterfuge or conspiracy here. Use Iron, don't use Iron. I don't fully understand the reasoning fuelling the bizarre mythology surrounding SRWare Iron as a browser. I am familiar with the Google fanboy aspersions cast upon it particularly on the Wilders Security Forums, but I used Iron as a browser for at least three years and I'm still technically a member of their forums. Which, incidentally, I found helpful and informative. At least it cleanly and fully uninstalls on Windows, which is more than can be said for Chrome.

The only 'truth' about SRWare Iron is that it can exhibit small but annoying bugs. I would recommend it as a browser, bearing that small flaw in mind.

[vasa1]

Is SRWare Iron's source code accessability really relevant in reality? Is Google Chrome 100% open source? What is the issue with the licence and is that really relevant? ...
Google Chrome is certainly not open source. Some people prefer Chromium on that ground. Why shoudn't accessibility to code be relevant? Why should licensing terms not be relevant? Both these issues determine which software is made available by default in at least some distros.

[Daveski17]

Google Chrome is certainly not open source. Some people prefer Chromium on that ground. Why shoudn't accessibility to code be relevant? Why should licensing terms not be relevant? Both these issues determine which software is made available by default in at least some distros.

Maybe, but I don't see any conspiracy or subterfuge with SRWare Iron, after all, it is freeware and does what it says 'on the box'. I had no qualms about running it, apart from some persistent bugs.

[vasa1]

Maybe, but I don't see any conspiracy or subterfuge with SRWare Iron, after all, it is freeware and does what it says 'on the box'. I had no qualms about running it, apart from some persistent bugs.I'm not sure I implied subterfuge or conspiracy. It's just that I won't use it because there are other browsers with clearer provenance. If someone recommends it, I'll point out what I think about it and all of us can go on our own ways :)

[Daveski17]

I'm not sure I implied subterfuge or conspiracy. It's just that I won't use it because there are other browsers with clearer provenance. If someone recommends it, I'll point out what I think about it and all of us can go on our own ways :)

I honestly don't understand the fear, uncertainty and doubt combined with the associated and often subtextual mythology surrounding SRWare, and particularly Iron, or its unnecessary and essentially redundant perpetuation. Much of this was originally instigated by Google fanboys who had the same aversion to the (now defunct) 'Scroogle' search engine.

Perhaps it was the German government's reaction to much of Google's scraping policies that originally initiated the development and forking of the Iron browser from Chromium in Germany. This seemed to prompt and encourage invective against the SRWare developers from devoted fans of Google.

This inevitably resulted in a rather bizarre underhanded asseveration by some that SRWare Iron was not being quite honest about something, and that somehow its integrity could be doubted because of this.

Which all seems to hinge on one aspect:

‘Iron is issued by SRWare under an "all rights reserved" license, indicating that it is made from a combination of proprietary and free software. Although SRWare claims "Iron is free and OpenSource" the source code hosted in RapidShare is blocked by the uploader.’ ~ Wikipedia

This just may be some misunderstanding in translation with the original German, as Iron is definitely freeware and based on an open source project (Chromium). Although, as stated above, it is a combination of propriety and free software. This isn't exactly hidden or obscured particularly.

It seems rather strange to me that SRWare's rectitude and integrity is publicly doubted because of this by some devotees of Google. So much so that they have even taken the time and trouble to compile blogs about it. I don't see why the SRWare developers are any different to Google in not wanting to release their source code to the general public.

The reasoning behind this decision is almost certainly to do with business competitiveness. In this light the clarity or lucidity of its provenience as a browser seems to be an odd issue to contemplate.

[vasa1]

... In this light the clarity or lucidity of its provenience as a browser seems to be an odd issue to contemplate.
That's your opinion. I would most certainly like to know "where" a browser comes from. It's also the reason I stay with a mainstream distro.

[Daveski17]

That's your opinion. I would most certainly like to know "where" a browser comes from. It's also the reason I stay with a mainstream distro.

In my opinion, SRWare Iron comes from Germany. Iron is offered in some distros, like Red Hat, I believe. I agree with you about mainstream distros though.

[vasa1]

In my opinion, SRWare Iron comes from Germany. ...
Good one. Enjoy :)

[Daveski17]

Good one. Enjoy :)

I don't actually run Iron any more. This was predominantly due to it often having several annoying bugs, rather than anything else.

I am still perplexed with the need for some people to perpetuate the mythology surrounding SRWare Iron. It serves no purpose and isn't backed with any evidence. I am at a loss to explain this phenomenon.

[Tar_Ni]

In my opinion, SRWare Iron comes from Germany. Iron is offered in some distros, like Red Hat, I believe. I agree with you about mainstream distros though.

It is more than an opinion, it is a fact. SRWare is a German compagny that produces software and PC systems aimed at more privacy and security. They are mostly known for the Iron browser outside Germany, but they produced freeware such as SecureWAMP, CryptXpert or ALE. See: http://www.srware.net/software.php

As for the source code, does anyone made a request to developpers to see it? Maybe they just assume that the tech-savvy will look at Chromium's code instead for practical purpose as they should be similar. All that SRWare do is stripping away the components associated with Google an rebrand it as Iron instead of Chromium.

The Iron browser is not popular on Linux for a very simple reason: Chromium is easily accessible and updates are provided on a consistent basis. Most people on a Linux system will choose that option as an alternative to Google Chrome. That is not so on Windows or Mac, which is where Iron becomes useful. Hunting for stable builts of Chromium is beyond the ability of many people online annd most builts 'right off the trunk' are tremendously buggy. It is not meant that the lambda user should use Chromium instead of Google Chrome... What SWRware does is basically doing the job for you, removing the links with Google and publishing the Iron release as a simple download on their website.

And BTW, the Iron browser is out there since 2008, about the same time that Google Chrome came out. I haven't heard about any privacy complaint regarding SRWare since then. They even tell you what to do if you don't trust them:

''Can i really check that Iron doesn't submit any private data, how you say?

Yes, you can. There are tools like Wireshark, which scan the whole network-traffic. We could not recognize any obvious activity. But you can proof this by yourself.
PS: We also disabled the DNS-Precaching by default, because this could perhaps used by spammers (see this Link (http://blog.chromium.org/2008/09/dns-prefetching-or-pre-resolving.html))''

From: http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron_faq.php

[Daveski17]

It is more than an opinion, it is a fact. SRWare is a German compagny that produces software and PC systems aimed at more privacy and security.

My brother is a software engineer and lived in Germany for a few years. He recommended Iron to me as a browser and still uses it himself on Linux. I've stated earlier where and why all the FUD has originated about SRWare. I used it as my default browser (Windows) for nearly three years. I only ceased using it when it went through a buggy patch. Along with Maxthon, it was the fastest browser I have ever used. I think it used to do very well in benchmark tests, regularly beating Chrome. Which is probably another reason the Google fanboys disliked it.