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View Full Version : Difference between new users and veterans



Tristan_Williams
August 20th, 2014, 04:42 AM
Obviously, there are new Linux users, and seasoned vets.
And of course, they are going to use slightly different terminology, explanations, and methods of doing things.

So what, specifically, have you seen new users say or do, that a seasoned user would never say or do, or maybe say/do in a different way?
What about things that experienced users say and do, that new users don't?

I'm looking for specific phrases, specific ways of doing things, and specific explanations

tgalati4
August 20th, 2014, 04:58 AM
New users have no idea how easy it is to completely wipe their system with a few commands. Veteran users forget how easy it is to completely wipe their system with a few commands.

New users seem to have trouble with installation based on popular page hits: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AAA (I compiled this list back in February, but I doubt that it has changed much.)

Veteran users seem to have trouble with upgrades and regressions based on rants in the forums. Many problems happen when trying to perform an in-place upgrade on a critical machine and it breaks (no graphics, no internet, crashes, etc). It may take more time to perform a backup, complete wipe, manual partition setup, and clean install; but there are less problems. Newbies and veterans alike complain about in-place upgrades.

Some veterans have impressive neckbeards.

QIII
August 20th, 2014, 05:34 AM
I have a goatee.

Irihapeti
August 20th, 2014, 05:40 AM
Some veterans can forget what it's like to be a beginner and not "just know" the things that veterans know.

Beginners have made a few mistakes. Veterans have made lots of mistakes, but some forget that.

Both new users and veterans underestimate the usefulness of backups.

(....which reminds me, I'd better go and back up my system now.)

CantankRus
August 20th, 2014, 06:23 AM
I have a goatee.
Could have sworn you had a donkee.... :p

T.J.
August 20th, 2014, 08:31 AM
I can honestly say that I am a Linux veteran after 14+ years of use. Beside the obvious commentary that I'm sure you've heard before, the following is probably true:

1. Veterans do not give a crap about comparisons between Linux versus Windows after a while. We don't waste time on it.
2. All versions of Linux have issues. Use what works best for you - but always be ready to say "I don't know" if you don't.
3. Veterans work with FOSS (free opensource software) not FLOS (free Linux operating system) as the new kids do. We are more interested in making solutions that work, rather than just solutions that work only for Linux. We work in the real world, where software needs to be used by actual users to be useful.
4. Linux veterans, for the most part - believe in elegant and simple solutions, because they are easy to fix. That is why some object to some of the solutions like Systemd that tie into everything and the kitchen sink.
5. Probably the most obvious sign of a veteran: they are not afraid of working with code.

lisati
August 20th, 2014, 08:38 AM
Some of the veterans here started on computers that used punched cards and/or paper tape. Many beginners are unlikely to have had the opporunity to experience such a machine.

grahammechanical
August 20th, 2014, 03:34 PM
New users have the sense not to post in a thread like this. Old users do not have ...... :)

pretty_whistle
August 20th, 2014, 04:32 PM
Impressive neckbeards? Hahaha.....

Frogs Hair
August 20th, 2014, 08:56 PM
I have no neckbeard nor do I eat dead skin from my feet on camera , but I learn something new everyday and therefore am still a beginner in many ways. ;)

Old_Grey_Wolf
August 20th, 2014, 10:43 PM
Some new Linux users try to do things on Linux the way they did them on Microsoft Windows. Veterans gave up on that years ago, or never expected it to work the same in the first place.

Some new users have difficulty understanding the difference between disk drives and partitions. Veterans are familiar with the difference.

New user: I installed Ubuntu on my C drive and it deleted my D drive. :mad: How do I get my photos, ... back.


Some of the veterans here started on computers that used punched cards and/or paper tape. Many beginners are unlikely to have had the opportunity to experience such a machine.

Some veterans here started using computers before Microsoft, Apple, or Linux existed. ;)

Old_Grey_Wolf
August 20th, 2014, 11:01 PM
...

Some veterans have impressive neckbeards.

I have a full round beard. I use hair trimmers to trim the hair on my neck for the benefit of those 6 feet tall or under that can see my neck when they are looking up at me. :lol:

QIII
August 20th, 2014, 11:09 PM
I trim my flowing ear hair and nose hair regularly ... unless I'm in the mood for braiding it.

Old_Grey_Wolf
August 20th, 2014, 11:20 PM
I trim my flowing ear hair and nose hair regularly ... unless I'm in the mood for braiding it.Thanks for reminding me. Just took care of it. :lol:

PondPuppy
August 21st, 2014, 12:02 AM
As a newbie... New users are happy when they succeed in installing a multi-boot system.

Perhaps veteran users are happy when they succeed in getting a new user out of bad trouble?

Buntu Bunny
August 21st, 2014, 12:15 AM
New users have the sense not to post in a thread like this. Old users do not have ...... :)

LOL. I must be somewhere in between.

Irihapeti
August 21st, 2014, 12:20 AM
Not sure what I am, since I don't have the sense not to post in a thread like this. :)

But I do agree that there's nothing quite like knowing that you helped someone out of a difficult spot.

uRock
August 21st, 2014, 02:43 AM
A newbie looks at my bean count and thinks I might know what I am talking about.

A veteran sees my bean count and knows that I'm just a newbie who likes to talk a lot.

I normally grow a beard for the Renaissance Festival in October and keep in until Christmas. Speaking of which, why do companies think one has to be clean shaven to be "professional"?

PJs Ronin
August 21st, 2014, 03:01 AM
I'm of veteran age but with newbie Linux experience so I'm screwed both ways.

However, I do have the obligatory 'seniors' goatee and a killer ponytail nurtured since 2000.

CantankRus
August 21st, 2014, 06:27 AM
I have a full round beard. I use hair trimmers to trim the hair on my neck for the benefit of those 6 feet tall or under that can see my neck when they are looking up at me. :lol:
From my calculations you must be 6'4".
The distance from the eye to chin is about 4 inches so you have to be 4 inches taller than a 6' person for them to see under your chin.
):P :p

snidely2
August 21st, 2014, 07:21 AM
new users get frustrated a lot;
veteran users get . . . frustrated . . . a lot

the difference is which stumbling blocks you've overcome and whether you can help someone else,
because some of these stumbling blocks (issues) have been around for a while.

tgalati4
August 22nd, 2014, 12:16 AM
My barber offers to trim my ear hair. I didn't realize that it's a real condition (http://otoscopy.hawkelibrary.com/album05/6_15).


sudo cut my_earhair

I always thought ear hair was an extension of a neckbeard, but apparently it is not.

JKyleOKC
August 22nd, 2014, 03:24 AM
Some veterans here started using computers before Microsoft, Apple, or Linux existed. ;)At least one here began before Unix itself existed, stealing time on the company mainframes...

But he's still a newbie in many areas, and will be learning until the day he dies.

CantankRus
August 22nd, 2014, 03:33 AM
My barber offers to trim my ear hair. I didn't realize that it's a real condition (http://otoscopy.hawkelibrary.com/album05/6_15).


sudo cut my_earhair

I always thought ear hair was an extension of a neckbeard, but apparently it is not.


mv ~/head/left-ear/hair ~/head/top/

stalkingwolf
August 22nd, 2014, 02:59 PM
one of the weirdest comments from a newbie to me is "i want to learn/know everything" . After a short time they as I did realize you will never know everything . It is impossible Linux evolves to fast . Maybe all the basic stuff and the things that are important to you.

Elfy
August 22nd, 2014, 05:58 PM
veterans install what they need, newbies install the whole repo and wonder why their disk is full

Bashing-om
August 22nd, 2014, 09:44 PM
A newbie installs and installs nevermind/don't-know the consequences
A veteran cleans up the messes behind him -> before moving on.




did I do that !

Old_Grey_Wolf
August 22nd, 2014, 11:22 PM
At least one here began before Unix itself existed, stealing time on the company mainframes...

Many beginners are unlikely to understand that a computer can work without what we know as an operating system. I was a good finger mumbler in the day. ;)

uRock
August 22nd, 2014, 11:27 PM
Many beginners are unlikely to understand that a computer can work without what we know as an operating system. I was a good finger mumbler in the day. ;)

Lol, I had a calculator back then. Does that count?

Old_Grey_Wolf
August 22nd, 2014, 11:33 PM
Lol, I had a calculator back then. Does that count?

I had a calculator back then as well called a K&E side rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule#mediaviewer/File:Slide_rule_scales_front.jpg).

QIII
August 22nd, 2014, 11:34 PM
Slide rules were an improvement from all the finger techniques.

Irihapeti
August 22nd, 2014, 11:53 PM
I'm just waiting for someone to say they had an abacus, a chisel and mallet and a hunk of marble. :)

Not me, I'm not quite that old...

Bashing-om
August 23rd, 2014, 12:08 AM
I had a calculator back then as well called a K&E side rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule#mediaviewer/File:Slide_rule_scales_front.jpg).

Hey I just looked ! I found my Picket no 121 slide rule in the drawer ->


even after all these years

sisco311
August 23rd, 2014, 12:56 AM
I'm just waiting for someone to say they had an abacus, a chisel and mallet and a hunk of marble. :)

Not me, I'm not quite that old...

Hmm..., I have two abacuses:

255741

JKyleOKC
August 23rd, 2014, 01:07 AM
I'm just waiting for someone to say they had an abacus, a chisel and mallet and a hunk of marble. :)

Not me, I'm not quite that old...I do still have one, but I never used it for anything serious and today I have no idea where it is.

sisco311
August 23rd, 2014, 01:38 AM
I do still have one, but I never used it for anything serious and today I have no idea where it is.


In the 2nd grade I used them for learning purposes only; and now, 23 years later, I'm bright enough to use one of them for foot massage:

<image censured> :)

QIII
August 23rd, 2014, 01:44 AM
I was happy when they came up with bronze. Those iron abacuses were heavy.

tgalati4
August 23rd, 2014, 03:53 PM
I had a bamboo abacus that I used in grade school in Hawaii. All the cool kids had one. In middle school I was using a couple of different slide rules including a circular one. Then I got a 4-function calculator with "Big Green Numbers and Little Rubber Feet"--a radio jingle that was popular at the time--way, way before the Web.

chili555
August 23rd, 2014, 04:07 PM
Some veterans can forget what it's like to be a beginner and not "just know" the things that veterans know.

This is, in fact, my pet peeve. When I started in Linux in 1934 or some such, I asked a few questions on a forum and got answers such as, "RTFM, dummy," and "What a noob!" I detest such treatment.

When I see such treatment, I do my best to get the offender arrested and put in prison for a year; if not, then banned and, finally, if not, at least warned. I am proud that I see such treatment only rarely here.

sammiev
August 23rd, 2014, 04:25 PM
This is, in fact, my pet peeve. When I started in Linux in 1934 or some such, I asked a few questions on a forum and got answers such as, "RTFM, dummy," and "What a noob!" I detest such treatment.

When I see such treatment, I do my best to get the offender arrested and put in prison for a year; if not, then banned and, finally, if not, at least warned. I am proud that I see such treatment only rarely here.

1934? hehe

Mike_Walsh
August 23rd, 2014, 06:26 PM
Some new Linux users try to do things on Linux the way they did them on Microsoft Windows. Veterans gave up on that years ago, or never expected it to work the same in the first place.

Some new users have difficulty understanding the difference between disk drives and partitions. Veterans are familiar with the difference.

New user: I installed Ubuntu on my C drive and it deleted my D drive. :mad: How do I get my photos, ... back.




Some veterans here started using computers before Microsoft, Apple, or Linux existed. ;)

Well; I count myself a Linux newbie....only been using it since May. BUT; I agree with Old Grey Wolf's last statement. I've been using computers since the tail end of the 70's....Commodore's Vic-20 & C64 come to mind, as do Sinclair's ZX 80 & 81. In that respect, at least, I count myself a veteran. With machines in those days, to do ANYTHING at all, you had no choice but to write your own software...! :p

Consequently, I'm not really 'frightened' of the terminal.....just cautious.

BTW, I remember a friend in secondary school getting a four-function calculator for Xmas 1974. Within 3 months, he had got to the point where he couldn't add 2+2 without it... [-X

Regards,

Mike.

Irihapeti
August 23rd, 2014, 10:52 PM
BTW, I remember a friend in secondary school getting a four-function calculator for Xmas 1974. Within 3 months, he had got to the point where he couldn't add 2+2 without it... [-X


I recall seeing a cartoon in a magazine, which showed a job candidate at an interview. The rather exasperated interviewer was asking the question: "Look, _______, if I give you five calculators and then take away three of them, how many have you got left?" :)

tgalati4
August 23rd, 2014, 10:59 PM
And yes having gone through TI-30, 33, 57, 58, and 59 (http://www.datamath.org/) in high school--I could program the thing to calculate PI to 1,000 places and it only took overnight to do it. Now those calculators had small red numbers and tiny rubber feet. Neckbeards and linux were still 15 years away!

sudodus
August 23rd, 2014, 11:49 PM
Using one of these things at my father's office, I learned that 37*27=999

http://web.telia.com/~u13101111/odhner.html

Maybe 15 years later, my first contact with an electronic computer was via punched cards, and I said that I would never want to work with computers. It was way too frustrating.

bashiergui
August 24th, 2014, 12:23 AM
I trim my flowing ear hair and nose hair regularly ... unless I'm in the mood for braiding it.
I suppose I'm a veteran in the sense that I've got the benefit of aging eyesight that prevents me from noticing my nose and ear hair. I don't believe in anything I can't see.

The new user enjoys furry views.

QIII
August 24th, 2014, 12:39 AM
My nose and ear hair is grey, so I am sure nobody else notices it. Mrs. QIII seems to disagree.

I am also told the bald spot on the back of my head is getting quite large, but I don't care because I still sport a short military hair cut I can't see it anyway.

Mike_Walsh
August 24th, 2014, 12:53 AM
Who here remembers the early Casio calculators? My first example was the fx-17 scientific;

http://www.vintagecalculators.com/CasioFX17_1.jpg

I was fascinated by the way that the lower half of the last digit flickered in and out all by itself as it was running a calculation; I thought at the time it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen.

Later on, around 'A'-level time, I went through a whole series of the more advanced CBM calculators, including a P50, the programmable model. I was always attracted by the little red LEDs, and to a certain extent the green fluorescent ones; never had a lot of time for LCDs.

My old man had one of the very early Pulsar Mark 2 LED watches, which he paid better than 1300 for; and for that, you got time in hours + mins...and the date. This was what led to my own subsequent obsession with LED watches, to the point where I have quite a collection (some still working, some not), and my current, day-to-day one

http://www.led-watch.com/usspace.htm

is a modern take on the Pulsar, but with redesigned buttons, and a far superior battery life, courtesy of the modern CR2032. The early LED timepieces used to chew those mercury oxide batteries up like they were Smarties..! A friend had the first one in school; everybody wanted to see it work; his first set of batteries were flat in about 48 hrs...

Regards,

Mike.

Habitual
August 24th, 2014, 01:49 AM
I considered myself a veteran why I finally quit asking "users" what OS/Version they had before I agreed to fix their system, as I realized it doesn't matter.

A veteran will "look within" for the solution (man, READMEs, etc...).
A veteran will "read twice and execute once".
A "user" doesn't know the difference between a console and a terminal.
A "user" can only function with a GUI (desktop).
Veterans only need a console. The desktop doesn't matter.
"Users" only know "one way" to get any given task done.
A veteran understands there are many ways to skin a cat.