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mooreted
July 30th, 2014, 05:11 AM
Getting back into the forums and doing what little I can to help solve problems when I can, I notice that often someone will ask a question, a couple of people will ask for more information, sometimes the poster will provide it, sometimes they won't. Then, for no apparent reason, the poster just stops communicating altogether. You never hear from them on that thread again. I wonder where they go.

QIII
July 30th, 2014, 05:33 AM
I think some folks just expect us to have a crystal ball and be able to devine both their exact problem and the answer in one fell swoop.

If that doesn't happen, we just become unhelpful geek snobs asking geeky techno-questions.

Or something like that...

:)

mooreted
July 30th, 2014, 05:45 AM
My crystal ball is in the shop. :(

QIII
July 30th, 2014, 05:53 AM
My son uses mine to prop the door open at his shop...

He owns an art glass shop.

senortout
July 30th, 2014, 05:57 AM
My crystal ball is in the shop. :(

Hello, first poster here, for the most part. I have picked up stuff here and there, know what you are saying...about noobies. Here is a stupid noobie type sorta question. When will the 14.04.1 upgrade be offered on the update manager? And why is it so difficult to get a straight answer to that simple question? Why also did I decide to wait until July24 as Ubuntu suggested I do? and just for giggles, go to this link in our wiki and 'splain to me how confusing that page might be to a new user. A clue here....information is duplicated on that page I linked you to....someone should clean up that wiki page at least! Life is confusing enough already. Here is the link I spoke of.
http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04.1/

ps. I really appreciate all the work that has gone into Ubuntu, I just wish I were smart enough to help in some small way. 12.04.4 Ubuntu has been an extremely solid O.S. and I am looking forward to 14.04.1 in the near future.

Warren Hill
July 30th, 2014, 10:31 AM
ps. I really appreciate all the work that has gone into Ubuntu, I just wish I were smart enough to help in some small way. 12.04.4 Ubuntu has been an extremely solid O.S. and I am looking forward to 14.04.1 in the near future.

There are lots of ways you can help. If all you do is read these forums and ask for more information where you think it will help others solve the question, or offer advice when someone asks a question you are able to help on. You are helping.

You don't need to be a developer to help.

:guitar:

coldraven
July 30th, 2014, 11:30 AM
Getting back into the forums and doing what little I can to help solve problems when I can, I notice that often someone will ask a question, a couple of people will ask for more information, sometimes the poster will provide it, sometimes they won't. Then, for no apparent reason, the poster just stops communicating altogether. You never hear from them on that thread again. I wonder where they go.

I too wondered that. I toyed with the idea of asking for a /dev/null section of the forum where all those abandoned threads could go.
The most annoying are those from shills who make only one posting saying "I installed Ubuntu and it destroyed my hard drive/photos/puppy" and then never return.
The downside would be their feigned anger when they're sent to the bin.

My crystal ball is wrapped in black silk to keep the magic in :)

buzzingrobot
July 30th, 2014, 12:44 PM
I imagine some people don't know this is a volunteer community effort.

Some folks may get the right answer and never post a follow up. Their problem's solved and they go away. Or, it isn't solved and they go back to Windows.

There are limits to what can be done here. Many initial questions lack information, and posters can get frustrated trying to provide more information about something that is pretty much entirely new and foreign to them. I'm sure many times incorrect info is posted, through no fault of the poster.

And... people change things -- add PPA's that replace core packages, follow outdated howto's, etc. -- and often forget about it or assume it doesn't matter. I'm convinced that perhaps the biggest reason Things Don't Work, and advice from here doesn't seem to fix matters, e.g., a busted update, is because the user has changed something. Software isn't clairvoyant.

The Cog
July 30th, 2014, 01:00 PM
When will the 14.04.1 upgrade be offered on the update manager?
It was once, and never will again.
The update manager offers the latest of each of thousands of packages. 14.04.1 is a snapshot of that collection taken at some point in time and frozen into an installer ISO image. Within hours of that snapshot, one or more packages will have been updated again and the update manager will now be offering that, not the outdated one in 14.04.1.

I suspect that impatience is the cause of most abandoned threads - either the poster found an answer elsewhere, worked it out for themselves, or gave up trying to solve the problem. And didn't bother to come back and tell everyone else.

mooreted
July 30th, 2014, 02:24 PM
Hello, first poster here, for the most part. I have picked up stuff here and there, know what you are saying...about noobies. Here is a stupid noobie type sorta question. When will the 14.04.1 upgrade be offered on the update manager? And why is it so difficult to get a straight answer to that simple question? Why also did I decide to wait until July24 as Ubuntu suggested I do? and just for giggles, go to this link in our wiki and 'splain to me how confusing that page might be to a new user. A clue here....information is duplicated on that page I linked you to....someone should clean up that wiki page at least! Life is confusing enough already. Here is the link I spoke of.
http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04.1/

ps. I really appreciate all the work that has gone into Ubuntu, I just wish I were smart enough to help in some small way. 12.04.4 Ubuntu has been an extremely solid O.S. and I am looking forward to 14.04.1 in the near future.

I've been using Linux since 2002 and I still find things that are confusing. Some things are written by developers who's knowledge is miles above my own and they seem to speak some strange language that makes my head hurt while other things are written by volunteers that don't seem to get checked by moderators. Linux isn't like Windows. A lot of people are just regular types contributing their own time. They don't have managers or a QA department; they have to do everything by themselves.

As for me: I read that 14.04.1 had come out, but the update manager never actually stated that it was installing it. I had to look it up on my computer just to see if it installed. The reason I couldn't give you a straight answer is that I don't know. Generally, as long as things keep working, I don't worry about it.

As to helping out: There are some really smart people on these forums, but most of us are just normal computer users helping each other out. You might be new, but you will still be able to help others. The best way to learn something is to teach someone else how to do it.

grahammechanical
July 30th, 2014, 02:34 PM
My second greatest frustration is the poster who does not give any information about the hardware, version of Ubuntu or the problem. My greatest frustration is not knowing if my suggestions worked.

As for holding back the upgrade notification to the release of 14.04, that is due to early upgrades to 14.04 breaking people's systems. As we noticed on this forum. So, the upgrade has been held back until now to fix things. Even so, it is still late.

As regards the upgrade from 14.04 to 14.04.1 that will come through by running a normal update using Update manager. I have tested this, so I know it is true. There is no notification and there seems little to tell the user that they are running 14.04.1. Run this command


lsb_release -a

And see what you have got.

Regards.

pretty_whistle
July 30th, 2014, 05:07 PM
I suspect that impatience is the cause of most abandoned threads - either the poster found an answer elsewhere, worked it out for themselves, or gave up trying to solve the problem. And didn't bother to come back and tell everyone else.
I agree. I think that applies to all of them.

ibjsb4
July 30th, 2014, 06:12 PM
Getting back into the forums and doing what little I can to help solve problems when I can, I notice that often someone will ask a question, a couple of people will ask for more information, sometimes the poster will provide it, sometimes they won't. Then, for no apparent reason, the poster just stops communicating altogether. You never hear from them on that thread again. I wonder where they go.

My crystal ball is working just fine, just polished it :D

The OP is clueless on how to do this. Or is given terminal commands, enough to scare anyone new without proper instruction.

senortout
July 30th, 2014, 06:29 PM
My second greatest frustration is the poster who does not give any information about the hardware, version of Ubuntu or the problem. My greatest frustration is not knowing if my suggestions worked.

As for holding back the upgrade notification to the release of 14.04, that is due to early upgrades to 14.04 breaking people's systems. As we noticed on this forum. So, the upgrade has been held back until now to fix things. Even so, it is still late.

As regards the upgrade from 14.04 to 14.04.1 that will come through by running a normal update using Update manager. I have tested this, so I know it is true. There is no notification and there seems little to tell the user that they are running 14.04.1. Run this command


lsb_release -a

And see what you have got.

Regards.

Well, I have not upgraded to 14.04 yet, so I do know what I am using but just so I touched all bases, I just checked, still at 12.04.4. I did not upgrade as I was advised not to (or, rather, acquired the sense that it was better to wait for 14.04.1, when more of the bugs would be worked thru)

mooreted
July 30th, 2014, 11:47 PM
My crystal ball is working just fine, just polished it :D

The OP is clueless on how to do this. Or is given terminal commands, enough to scare anyone new without proper instruction.

I'm clueless about a great many things, just ask my wife.

SantaFe
July 31st, 2014, 01:37 AM
My crystal ball is in the shop. :(
255165

Mine comes with instructions "In Case Of Emergency Break Glass with included hammer"! HOW??? :D

QIII
July 31st, 2014, 01:47 AM
I think in the case of what you have there, your instructions actually read "In case of hammer, break emergency with glass."

pretty_whistle
July 31st, 2014, 02:40 AM
lol

SeijiSensei
July 31st, 2014, 05:48 AM
I've found this behavior sufficiently annoying to start this thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1927042) about it. My signature is a meager attempt to do something about rude OPs who walk away.

pretty_whistle
July 31st, 2014, 06:47 AM
I think it cuts both ways sometimes. One time, recently, I posted a question in general help and later in that thread I asked another support question which required me to start another thread for it but no one told me this. I was just left there waiting for an answer I wasnt going to get. No one told me I needed to start another thread for the new question. After a couple days I figured it out myself after noticing everyone abandoned the thread.

I wonder how many times that happens to people.

mooreted
July 31st, 2014, 06:50 AM
I've found this behavior sufficiently annoying to start this thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1927042) about it. My signature is a meager attempt to do something about rude OPs who walk away.

Well, I was just using a little tongue in cheek. I don't think you should be annoyed or take it personally when people don't reply to your posts. It's not a personality contest, you won't win the accolades of the greater community, you aren't less of a person if you don't get the response you expect.

I think you are taking this process too seriously. It's just a place to hang out and share knowledge and opinions. There is no reward for being here except the occasional happiness you feel when you solve a problem and help a fellow geek, or get a laugh at a particularly bad joke.

Put your feet up, grab a beer, take a deep breath and don't take yourself so seriously. Chillax, bro. :D

Warren Hill
July 31st, 2014, 01:42 PM
The point of wanting a response is to give oneself confidence one is still giving good advice. Nothing else.

Lets say I had a problem in Ubuntu 11.04 which I solved, either by my self or with help, and someone comes along with the same problem today in 14.04.

If I give advice based on by experience in 11.04 and I get a reply either that it worked or it didn't. I've leant something and will know whether to give the same advice in the future.

It also helps others trying to help as they can see if a problem has been fixed or is still on going.

mooreted
July 31st, 2014, 02:29 PM
It would be nice if more people did that, but if you go into any situation with a certain expectation you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I prefer to just give the best advice I can and hope that it works. It's nice when people respond, but it's the Internet. I try not to expect too much.

QIII
July 31st, 2014, 04:32 PM
I think it cuts both ways sometimes. One time, recently, I posted a question in general help and later in that thread I asked another support question which required me to start another thread for it but no one told me this. I was just left there waiting for an answer I wasnt going to get. No one told me I needed to start another thread for the new question. After a couple days I figured it out myself after noticing everyone abandoned the thread.

I wonder how many times that happens to people.

We try to catch that and move the new question to its own post, pretty_whistle. But there are only so many of us and a lot of posts to read... :)

pretty_whistle
July 31st, 2014, 08:55 PM
We try to catch that and move the new question to its own post, pretty_whistle. But there are only so many of us and a lot of posts to read... :)

:)

I wouldn't have minded doing it myself. :) It would've helped if someone there said something though. :)

bashiergui
August 2nd, 2014, 04:06 PM
Once upon a time when I first joined a vbulletin forum, I posted several questions. However the default was to NOT subscribe or email me my own thread. It took me a while to figure out how to get back to my own threads. What's the default here on UF? If noobs don't get subscribed and emailed their own threads by default, then I'd suggest a lot aren't abandoned, just lost.

pretty_whistle
August 3rd, 2014, 12:21 AM
Once upon a time when I first joined a vbulletin forum, I posted several questions. However the default was to NOT subscribe or email me my own thread. It took me a while to figure out how to get back to my own threads. What's the default here on UF? If noobs don't get subscribed and emailed their own threads by default, then I'd suggest a lot aren't abandoned, just lost.

I didn't think of that. True, very true.

bashiergui
August 3rd, 2014, 12:48 AM
I concur with whoever said most of the noob questions could be answered by a google search. However, I'd also add that it takes a certain level of expertise to know what to google to get useful results. For instance, when I first played with linux, the display was all pixelated and wonky. I Googled "screen stripy and pixelated" and shockingly enough, I failed to resolve my problem. It wasn't until I had posted a thread and gotten answers that I knew the problem was an incompatible graphics card.

Anyway when you're dealing with someone that doesn't know what to google, they probably also have no idea how forums work. Just a little perspective from the outside looking in.

sffvba[e0rt
August 3rd, 2014, 11:13 PM
My 2c worth to add to all of the valid points already made; we live in a world of instant gratification. For a lot of users just having to ask someone about something that they expect to "just work" is already too much, and for those that do ask on a forum it can often result in a wait that is too long and they simply revert to what they used before be it Windows, a mac or another distro and never look at the forum again.