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Viper550
July 25th, 2006, 04:51 PM
Place: #ubuntu-desktop
Time: today

It's long, but VERY funny, when I join in later is when the funniest part begind...

<gammamute> hey how do I make a website with ubuntu-desktop?
<tseng> you can try bluefish or nvu
<gammamute> what are those?
<tseng> html editor
<tseng> s
<tseng> I use vi
<gammamute> oh. how do I do it with php in ubuntu-desktop?
<tseng> that probably isnt your speed.
<tseng> I am not sure what you are asking for
<tseng> a php ide?
<gammamute> ??
<tseng> or a php-able webserver
<gammamute> no, just how to make a website with php in ubuntu-desktop
<tseng> sigh.
<tseng> do you want to write php code?
<gammamute> no, I want to make a website.
<tseng> or run the webserver, or both
<tseng> "I want to make a website" involves alot of things
<tseng> I think you are better off finding a tutorial on php
<tseng> it really isnt in the scope of ubuntu-desktop at all
<gammamute> it doesnt help with web development?
<tseng> I edit php on my ubuntu desktop, I host it on my ubuntu server
<tseng> I would like to help you, but you keep speaking in generalities
<tseng> have you ever built a php site before?
<gammamute> oh. you should be in #untuntu-server.
<tseng> I should?
<gammamute> i dont know much about php
<tseng> I think your first step then should be to study up on PHP
<gammamute> what about ubuntu?
<tseng> ubuntu-desktop doesnt have a php IDE
<tseng> what about ubuntu, exactly?
<gammamute> i dont know what that is
<gammamute> IDE
<tseng> you are extremely unclear on what you want from us
<tseng> Integrated Development Environment
<gammamute> I want to make a website.
<tseng> to make a website you write code
<tseng> it runs on a webserver
<tseng> there is no magic point of entry
<gammamute> I don't understand.
<tseng> there are 100 steps in making a website
<gammamute> What does any of that have to do with making a website?
<tseng> you ask me "how can I make a website with ubuntu"
<tseng> oh god
<Viper550> Just get nvu
<gammamute> I dont know what that is.
<Viper550> Or, ask your question in #ubuntu, we deal with the actual desktop, not what you do with it!
<gammamute> or what i would do with that
<gammamute> if you deal with the actual desktop, and not what you do with it....what exactly do you do?
<gammamute> do you polish it?
<mdke> gammamute: you need to find a basic tutorial about websites. This channel is for talking about how to make the ubuntu desktop better
<Viper550> Yes, making it usable
<gammamute> oh. well. I'm finding it very difficult to make a website with it.
<Viper550> Nice, clear, concise, simple! If you don't like the default layout, ask us, if you like making websites, go to #ubuntu
<mdke> gammamute: that is because making a website is very difficult
<mdke> you need to read a tutorial and maybe do some classes and so on
<gammamute> so ubuntu desktop, an OS, doesn't make websites? how long has it been in development?
<jsgotangco> gammamute: do you know HTML
<gammamute> jsgotangco: he's a fine fellow.
<Viper550> Ubuntu Desktop ISN'T THE OS!!!
<mdke> gammamute: no operating system makes websites. There are some programs to do that, one of which is nvu
<jsgotangco> Viper550: chill
<jsgotangco> gammamute: i meant HTML, the markup language
<gammamute> why isnt it part of the os, though?
<gammamute> to make it easy for people like me?
<dholbach> thi is not a support channel
<mdke> gammamute: because making websites is not thought to be a common enough activity. You can easily install a program to do so
<seb128> dholbach is right
<seb128> that's not the chan to speak about website
<dholbach> you can search for "html editor" in synaptic or apt-cache
<gammamute> mdke: if that was true, then why is myspace HUGE?
* Viper550 saves the log of this (which is what you are now reading)
<gammamute> it gets the most hits
<dholbach> this channel is about developing the ubuntu desktop
<gammamute> of any site in america
<dholbach> now please give it a rest
<gammamute> all i want is to make a website with ubuntu-desktop.
<gammamute> i love ubuntu-desktop
<gammamute> but
<dholbach> gammamute: please read what i said
<seb128> gammamute: you can use any text editor to do a website
<gammamute> its support channel is very mean.
<Viper550> ubuntu-desktop is just the desktop
<gammamute> what do desktops do?
<seb128> that's a matter or you learning how to make the site
<seb128> it provides softwares for you to use
<Viper550> gives you the interface
<dholbach> gammamute: you can search for "html editor" in synaptic or apt-cache
<seb128> like a text editor
<seb128> it doesn't teach you to type on a keyboard
<seb128> or write a website
<seb128> that's something you have to do by your own
<gammamute> oh, I dont want to learn any code.
<seb128> so you can't do a website
<jsgotangco> great
<seb128> that's like wanting to write a book without learning to write or type
<Viper550> http://www.nvu.com/index.php
<gammamute> hey, can ubuntu desktop be used for a binary proxy server with secured access?
<Viper550> ubuntu-desktop is just the core desktop, you need apache to do that
<gammamute> really? apache does that??
<Viper550> Yes.
<gammamute> cool. i didn't know that. I always thought it was restricted to port 80.
<seb128> gammamute: desktop = apps you use on a desktop, that's not the chan to speak about proxy, server, website
<gammamute> I dont understand.
<dholbach> seb128: did you start on any of gnome-session, gdm, control-center?
<gammamute> why dont you have a wysiwyg visual editor built in to the desktop for developers?
<seb128> dholbach: yeah, all of them, go and triage bugs now :p
* seb128 runs
<dholbach> gammamute: please try #ubuntu or #ubuntu+1
<seb128> dholbach: no, joke aside you can do all of them :)
<dholbach> gammamute: this is a channel about development of ubuntu desktop
* Viper550 thinks this would make a good Saturday Night Live skit
<gammamute> but I want to talk about the desktop
<ajmitch> hi pitti
<seb128> gammamute: do you have any good one to suggest?
<dholbach> gammamute: then talk about DEVELOPMENT of the ubuntu desktop
<gammamute> yeah i have a good one to suggest
<gammamute> why dont you have a wysiwyg visual editor built in to the desktop for developers?
<seb128> gammamute: why one?
<seb128> which
<seb128> gammamute: which one?
<tseng> you mean nvu?
<Viper550> He wants something like nvu included
<gammamute> no
<gammamute> yea
<tseng> we cant include everything.
<gammamute> VISUAL editor, not code
<pitti> hey
<gammamute> PHP visual editor
<dholbach> hey pitti
<tseng> you cant have a php visual editor
<seb128> gammamute: apt-get install nvu and you are done
<seb128> gammamute: we don't ship devel tools on the default desktop because there is not enough space on a CD for that
<seb128> wb pitti
<Viper550> Go to #ubuntu, you might get more help there
<gammamute> well, you dont need EVERYTHINg included to be hot. a kick ***, simple FTP client, a visual php editor (like dreamweaver is for html) and a google bar that searches your hd all right there on the desktop.
<tseng> you could write an open source visual php editor
<gammamute> see?
<tseng> and make you own ubuntu install cds with all that stuff
<tseng> ubuntu is a general purpose os
<tseng> so is windows or mac.. it doesnt come with dreamweaver
<gammamute> yeah, I can see that's helped its publicity so much, too.
<gammamute> tseng: go A step above
<gammamute> Aspire.
<seb128> gammamute: the CD is already oversized without those
<Viper550> Dreamweaver is COMMERCIAL software, you can't just include anything in an operating system
<gammamute> yeah, because its loaded with crap no one ever uses.
<dholbach> Ok
<seb128> like a music player?
<seb128> or a web browser?
<jsgotangco> dholbach: go for it
<seb128> or a mail agent?
<dholbach> That's enough. There's a process for getting things included on the CD. It's very simple.
<gammamute> viper: I meant an 'ubuntu' ve
<dholbach> Take the discussion to the Mailing list, then look on the wiki for Inclusion.
<gammamute> nah, I dont really care that much. you already have the ideas.


Funny?

matthew
July 25th, 2006, 05:02 PM
Painful. :)

dabear
July 25th, 2006, 05:11 PM
No, that's what we call A-N-N-O-Y-I-N-G!
Was he serious, or was he there just to troll?

Jucato
July 25th, 2006, 05:16 PM
I hate to laugh. I consider it um... amusing at best. I can't seem to quite "understand" that person. At one point, it seems that he's quite knowledgeable, asking stuff like "binary proxy server with secure access", but then goes asking questions that would be trivial to people who know about "binary proxy server with secure access" thingamajigs.
It's really quite "painful" to see these kinds of "questions". I mean, you can't help both being irritated by the guy, and at the same time, feeling sorry for him.

IYY
July 25th, 2006, 05:19 PM
Not the best. www.bash.org is where the best IRC conversations are at.

G Morgan
July 25th, 2006, 05:21 PM
Wow there was a lot of patience in that chat. I would have either snapped or quitely told him he should go back to Windows or find another distro, you don't need people like that when there are people that can actually be helped.

az
July 25th, 2006, 05:21 PM
Not funny.

Maybe s/he would have been less of a troll had some questions been made more straightforward to begin with.

When someone wants to "make a website" only a geek would suggest you learn PHP. I would think explaining what a CMS or any other kind of web application is would be more helpful.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WebServerHosting

"Joomla - Content Management System (CMS) that will help you build websites and other powerful online applications"

"Drupal can support a variety of websites ranging from personal weblogs to large community-driven websites"


And it's not really fair to say that it's not a support channel since most people were trying hard to dish out support before the thing turned sour when people were not understanding each other.

So yeah, not funny.

Jucato
July 25th, 2006, 05:26 PM
When someone wants to "make a website" only a geek would suggest you learn PHP.

They didn't suggest. He asked (line 7 of the conversation):


<gammamute> oh. how do I do it with php in ubuntu-desktop?


So yeah, not funny.
I quite agree. But most of the time, the humor of some is at the expense of others.

ShanghaiTeej
July 25th, 2006, 05:40 PM
Personally, I think the guy was just having a laugh.

mips
July 25th, 2006, 05:41 PM
I don't find this funny seeing it is at the expense of someone else.

Post is in bad taste if you ask me.

JoWilly
July 25th, 2006, 05:45 PM
At one point, it seems that he's quite knowledgeable, asking stuff like "binary proxy server with secure access", but then goes asking questions that would be trivial to people who know about "binary proxy server with secure access" thingamajigs.


Haha.

That fellow just didn't know what to do with his time and thought he'd have a good laugh at you.

Virogenesis
July 25th, 2006, 05:47 PM
Damn I would of used a kick ban within the first minute god please tell me this was a joke.

Jucato
July 25th, 2006, 05:47 PM
Haha.

That fellow just didn't know what to do with his time and thought he'd have a good laugh at you.

At me?

tseliot
July 25th, 2006, 05:50 PM
He said that he didn't want to learn any code and so they recommended to use NVU (more than once).

Weird. Is it a joke?

matthew
July 25th, 2006, 05:52 PM
Personally, I think the guy was just having a laugh.
Haha.

That fellow just didn't know what to do with his time and thought he'd have a good laugh at you.I think you two nailed it. The word is "trolling" as in fishing.


I don't find this funny seeing it is at the expense of someone else.

Post is in bad taste if you ask me.I wasn't actually laughing at the guy asking the questions (which, by the way, alternated between technically adept comments and absolute ignorance...sorry, that was too obvious for me to miss). I was thinking that the response and prolonged engagement seemed painful. I thought the people on the channel went over and above the call of duty to try to help someone that a more jaded (or maybe experienced) person would have simply written off and ignored much sooner.

Minyaliel
July 25th, 2006, 05:57 PM
I'm embarrassed on the behalf of that person. _Man_, even I ain't that stupid.

PingunZ
July 25th, 2006, 06:17 PM
Why didnt he get kicked ?

Onyros
July 25th, 2006, 06:23 PM
He was obviously trolling... How can you guys even feel sorry for him?

He was making fun of everyone else, and to me, that is quite obvious. Otherwise why would he ever, EVER ask about a binary proxy server with secure access? How does anyone who can't grasp the concept of making websites even think about something like that?

And that's not all... even the conclusion shows how much of a troll he actually was.

VirtuAlex
July 25th, 2006, 06:34 PM
He definitely needs help, but of different kind. Guy is just mental. If he was trolling it doesn't change anything - he's still mental.

az
July 25th, 2006, 06:36 PM
He was obviously trolling... How can you guys even feel sorry for him?

He was making fun of everyone else, and to me, that is quite obvious.

I dunno. I assumed there was a language barrier the firt time I read it. I also assumed that he was told that Ubuntu was great because the new version comes with a server installer.
He read up about PHP, reads up about serving web site and figures that's what he wants to do. He installs Ubuntu and wonders where the server is. Then asks for help.


<gammamute> hey how do I make a website with ubuntu-desktop?

<gammamute> what are those?

<tseng> I use vi
(I left that in because that's pretty much over the top!)
<gammamute> oh. how do I do it with php in ubuntu-desktop?

<gammamute> ??

<gammamute> no, just how to make a website with php in ubuntu-desktop

<gammamute> no, I want to make a website.

<gammamute> it doesnt help with web development?

<gammamute> oh. you should be in #untuntu-server.

<gammamute> i dont know much about php

<gammamute> what about ubuntu?

<gammamute> i dont know what that is

forrestcupp
July 25th, 2006, 07:28 PM
I think what is worse than this person's questions and remarks is the fact that there were too many people there that were trying to put their 2 cents in. It makes it very confusing to someone trying to get help when you have a bunch of people all at once trying to give their opinion or answer. I think if there was only one person who explained things in a competent way, instead of one hundred people, s/he might have understood quicker.

psychicdragon
July 25th, 2006, 07:38 PM
Wow, I can't believe such an obvious troll payed off that well. Respect to gammamute.

Aurdal
July 25th, 2006, 07:58 PM
Man, that is the most frustrating conversation I've ever read or been in.

Who ever said the guy was mental, I agree. He should've been locked up in one of those cells with soft fabric on the walls.

crispingatiesa
July 25th, 2006, 08:14 PM
Sounds like Ali G

Brunellus
July 25th, 2006, 08:18 PM
I think what is worse than this person's questions and remarks is the fact that there were too many people there that were trying to put their 2 cents in. It makes it very confusing to someone trying to get help when you have a bunch of people all at once trying to give their opinion or answer. I think if there was only one person who explained things in a competent way, instead of one hundred people, s/he might have understood quicker.
...that's the nature of IRC.

Redcard
July 25th, 2006, 08:35 PM
My first opinion on reading this was that it was a chatbot with an opening question programmed in. It seemed like all it did was question whatever response was given to it over and over.

Towards the end, though, we see his true colors as a troll. He apparently thinks Linux isn't ready, and was trying to get someone to admit that Linux "sucks" because it doesn't have Dreamweaver.

Any way you go about it, this guy is a troll. I'm all for the Ubuntu Spirit and all that jazz, but.. let's be realistic. There are some people for whom the main interest is to intentionally frustrate and annoy linux users.

Like on Digg where the Microsoft fanboys are digging down all comments on Firefox.

Viper550
July 26th, 2006, 04:41 PM
I'm starting to think I should have suggested Wine if he wanted to run Dreamweaver under Linux...

Gammamute
August 1st, 2006, 04:26 PM
Personally, I think the guy was just having a laugh.

YOU ARE CORRECT, SIR!

The rest of you are idiots. :) I am teh innernet god! Now, COWER!

Gammamute
August 1st, 2006, 04:35 PM
Man, that is the most frustrating conversation I've ever read or been in.

Who ever said the guy was mental, I agree. He should've been locked up in one of those cells with soft fabric on the walls.

I RESENT THAT!

matthew
August 1st, 2006, 04:41 PM
It was a stroke of genius to create a user just to post an amusing reply in this thread.

Now that the laughs have occurred I'll close the previously dead thread.