Question and Request to Spread the Word about Bestbuy

[jonathan71381]

I purchased a computer with Windows 8 on it. I purchased it with the intent of putting Linux on it. Then I tried to take it back during the 15 day return policy, and they refused the return stating that I had voided the warranty? REALLY? Does Linux void the warranty for real? Then, the GeekSquad guy said that if I put Windows 8 back on the machine, then he would be able to tell? Is there really something in the BIOS that stores how many times, you put which operating system on the machine? I just want everyone to know that in spite of a Bestbuy Salesman telling you its okay to put Linux on the machine, the store may not accept it as a return, and corporate doesn't care so be careful with that. Please spread the word! Do not buy a computer from Bestbuy if you want to put Linux on it, because they will not accept the return if you don't like it and you will be stuck with it.

[lisati]

Thread moved to The Cafe.

[squakie]

If you made all the backup media right away when you got your PC, you should be able to restore it back to "as-delivered" using those. It *should* appear just as it did when you bought it. They should take it then, however - if they are already familiar with what you have done they might not accept it. It's important to read warranty information very carefully - for a lot of PCs installing Linux (or any other OS) and/or messing with the partitions as they were delivered will void the warranty. It's hard for any seller to honor a warranty when the conditions have not been observed. Do I personally agree with this? No. But the manufacturer makes PC model based on hardware and software support (drivers et al) for a specific OS. Sure, the hardware should run Linux - possibly even better than it runs Windows. But their warranty, and what can be upheld by the seller, is that it be unmodified from the original configuration. Good luck!

[craig10x]

squakie is right..i once bought a laptop from best buy and wiped windows and put on ubuntu but it was an amd and at that time, wasn't playing well with it, so returned it and had no problem getting a refund...but the difference is that before i did that, i made the restore discs and put windows back on the computer, so they were none the wiser....so, one would have no problem with a return with them as long as you take that extra step before either wiping out windows or dual booting linux with it...

After returning that one, i made a new purchase with them of one with intel and was very happy and still using it, in fact....

[Copper Bezel]

Yeah, whereas I actually waited out the return period on my latest machine before installing Ubuntu. It's not unreasonable - you should at least make the effort to put things back as you found them, and a bad kernel could technically cause potentially hardware-affecting problems, like overheats. So, yeah, it's important to just be conscious of that. But you're right that buyers should be aware of that problem, no matter what the salesperson says, and act accordingly. I'm sorry you had to eat this purchase - that's always rough. = /

[RichardET]

I purchased a computer with Windows 8 on it. I purchased it with the intent of putting Linux on it. Then I tried to take it back during the 15 day return policy, and they refused the return stating that I had voided the warranty? REALLY? Does Linux void the warranty for real? Then, the GeekSquad guy said that if I put Windows 8 back on the machine, then he would be able to tell? Is there really something in the BIOS that stores how many times, you put which operating system on the machine? I just want
everyone to know that in spite of a Bestbuy Salesman telling you its okay to put Linux on the machine, the store may not accept it as a return, and corporate doesn't care so be careful with that. Please spread the word! Do not buy a computer from Bestbuy if you want to put Linux on it, because they will not accept the return if you don't like it and you will be stuck with it.

So tell us which machine. What was the price? Will BestBuy sell you windows restore disks? What were the issues which you didn't like about it, that you wanted to return it?

[sudodus]

So tell us which machine. What was the price? Will BestBuy sell you windows restore disks? What were the issues which you didn't like about it, that you wanted to return it?

+1

jonathan71381,

Assuming you are stuck with the machine, let us make the best possible use of it :-)

Let us know

- what machine it is (as many details as possible)
- what you intend[ed] to do with it
- which version of Ubuntu you tried and how you tried to run it live and install it

- what works (with Ubuntu and/or Windows)?
- what does not work

and there any many people here who will try to help.

[WinterMadness]

I purchased a computer with Windows 8 on it. I purchased it with the intent of putting Linux on it. Then I tried to take it back during the 15 day return policy, and they refused the return stating that I had voided the warranty? REALLY? Does Linux void the warranty for real? Then, the GeekSquad guy said that if I put Windows 8 back on the machine, then he would be able to tell? Is there really something in the BIOS that stores how many times, you put which operating system on the machine? I just want everyone to know that in spite of a Bestbuy Salesman telling you its okay to put Linux on the machine, the store may not accept it as a return, and corporate doesn't care so be careful with that. Please spread the word! Do not buy a computer from Bestbuy if you want to put Linux on it, because they will not accept the return if you don't like it and you will be stuck with it.

A similar situation happened with me. I talked to about 5 sales people before I talked to someone who actually knew what linux was. Some of the awesome responses I got were:
"Why wouldn't linux work on it?" (implying that linux is something that runs on top of windows, and no not like a VM)
"No you cant return a computer without an operating system"

You have to realize something here. Sales people dont know anything. They are trained to make up answers. I finally got the leader of the geek squad who actually knew what an OS was and he told me to simply put windows back on before I return it. I decided to get his name just incase they tell me im lying when I return it.

Dont trust people who want your money. If someone isnt helping you out of the goodness of their own heart then theres no honesty.

[LillyDragon]

That is pretty sad, WinterMadness, I thought it was a given for them to ask someone else onsite who actually knows what the customer wants. I've seen that a lot at RadioShack. I also talked to one at a Walmart once asking if they carried art tablets in-store, and she thought I meant tablet computer, but she still went and asked another employee who knew; very nice about it. So I don't see how lying to the customer with made up answers would net them more sales; sounds like it does exactly the opposite.

As for the other topic, I plan on building a PC, but I also still want a secondary mid-end box with Windows 8 on it. So reading this now, I'll definitely look at their PCs online first and check if their hardware works with Linux. (Assuming I want to dual-boot it with Ubuntu later on.) Having to return anything sucks enough as it is.

[SeijiSensei]

So I don't see how lying to the customer with made up answers would net them more sales; sounds like it does exactly the opposite.

Not having to deal with the return is probably a lot cheaper than the effect of a small change in a customer's future purchasing patterns.

[Copper Bezel]

Maybe, maybe not, but that line of thinking is basically the death of customer service as we know it.

[craig10x]

When i returned my first laptop, the geek squad at Best Buy checks out the return...basically, all they do is boot it up and if windows appears, they are satisfied...and i didn't tell them, of course, that ubuntu HAD been on there...i simply restored windows so that the computer was as i bought it and told them it works fine but it didn't meet my needs...case closed...refund issued...THAT is the way you do it...you don't TELL THEM you are going to or did change the OS on the computer....common sense applies here... ;)

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

It is not just Best Buy that wants Windows intact for a return or warranty repair. That is why I always make restore disk(s) when I first get a computer. I understand that Windows 8/8.1 use USB and it is 3 - 6 GB depending on the bloatware/trial-ware.

[irv]

Have you ever taken a USB drive to Best Buy and asked to try a live Linuux on a pc before you bought it to make sure it worked? I did. After telling the sale person to get a tech they final let me try it. Before long I had a crowd gathered around and ended up giving a demo of Ubuntu. Got a lot of questions like, "where can I get a USB like that?" After answering the questions, I then showed them how to run it off the USB in a VirtualBox or VM. Told them to down load a program in Windows, "LiLi USB Creator" and it would setup the VirtualBox for them. Here are the screen shots.
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[forrestcupp]

When i returned my first laptop, the geek squad at Best Buy checks out the return...basically, all they do is boot it up and if windows appears, they are satisfied...and i didn't tell them, of course, that ubuntu HAD been on there...i simply restored windows so that the computer was as i bought it and told them it works fine but it didn't meet my needs...case closed...refund issued...THAT is the way you do it...you don't TELL THEM you are going to or did change the OS on the computer....common sense applies here... ;)Exactly. If you've restored it to its original configuration and you don't tell them what you did, there's no way they're going to know. I think the Geek Squad guy was just trying to scare the OP out of installing Linux.


Have you ever taken a USB drive to Best Buy and asked to try a live Linuux on a pc before you bought it to make sure it worked? I did. After telling the sale person to get a tech they final let me try it. Before long I had a crowd gathered around and ended up giving a demo of Ubuntu. Got a lot of questions like, "where can I get a USB like that?" After answering the questions, I then showed them how to run it off the USB in a VirtualBox or VM. Told them to down load a program in Windows, "LiLi USB Creator" and it would setup the VirtualBox for them. Here are the screen shots.
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That's awesome.

[Warpnow]

I can see their perspective. Modifying the device, and they're going to have to send time returning it to its original state. Maybe insignificant, maybe not, depending.

Why not just restore the original OS and return it? There's absolutely no way they'd know if you do it right.

[craig10x]

Absolutely...that is what he should do, and of course return it to a DIFFERENT location where they haven't dealt with him...just tell them it works fine but he wasn't happy with it or didn't meet his needs...
Of course, this is assuming he made the restore discs before he put on ubuntu (assuming he wiped out windows and didn't dual boot)...of course, if he was dual booting, he still has access to making the discs on the "windows side"...

[Gilad_Pellaeon]

I'm actually suprised they don't check not only if windows is booting up but also if the recovery partition(s) are there as well which if I recall is often accessed via a hotkey at the BIOS screen at some point. Seeing as for some reason or another the industry has pretty much gone away from including actual physical media to reinstall Windows, or at least reinstall Windows along with all the manufactuer's bloatware and instead relies on partition's, I just see it as an inconvience for the owner of the PC.

[mips]

I don't see it as being unreasonable to expect a returned product to be in the same state as when it was offered at purchase. Be that an OS or a charger/power brick missing (amazing how many people leave out the charger).

How hard is it to restore a machine to factory defaults? It's a piece of cake. It's not on Best Buy that will do this but most retailers & distributors will have similar policies.

I purchased a laptop years ago (2005), installed linux on it and had ethernet port issue. I restored windows and returned it no problem. The thought of returning it in a different state with linux on it never even crossed my mind.


OP,

Do you still have time left in those 15 day return period? If 'yes' I would just restore windows and return it.

If not then give us the model details & problems so we can try and sort out your issues.

[forrestcupp]

I'm actually suprised they don't check not only if windows is booting up but also if the recovery partition(s) are there as well which if I recall is often accessed via a hotkey at the BIOS screen at some point. Seeing as for some reason or another the industry has pretty much gone away from including actual physical media to reinstall Windows, or at least reinstall Windows along with all the manufactuer's bloatware and instead relies on partition's, I just see it as an inconvience for the owner of the PC.
This brings up my question about the partitions. A lot of times when people install Linux and use the whole disc, they just wipe out all of the partitions and start from scratch, partitioning the drives how they want them, or how the installation disc wants them. So that's kind of part of returning it to its original state. If it came with a restore partition, and you wiped it out, you're probably not going to be able to get it back to the exact state it was in when you bought it, even if you do get the original OS and crapware reinstalled.

This is a pretty big lesson that you should test out a new computer for a while, and try out the LiveCD/USB first before you just wipe everything off and install Linux.

[craig10x]

If you take the time to make the 5 or so restore discs on windows BEFORE wiping it out and replacing with ubuntu, then by running those discs, an identical image will be restored to the computer as you received it from the store, crapware and all...the geek squad in Best Buy would have no way of knowing that anything had ever been altered or changed...That is what i did and that is why i had absolutely no problems returning it and getting a refund...they got back EXACTLY what was given to me in the first place...

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

I don't know why they check for Windows. I would hope they re-image the disk before they resell it. They don't know what may have been installed while you had it.

[Gilad_Pellaeon]

I don't know why they check for Windows. I would hope they re-image the disk before they resell it. They don't know what may have been installed while you had it.

Yeah but who's to say they might resell it? They may just throw it in the back to be thrown on a pallet with other computer's and shipped back as defective.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

Yeah but who's to say they might resell it? They may just throw it in the back to be thrown on a pallet with other computer's and shipped back as defective.

I would assume they refurbish and repackage. A lot of stores including Best Buy and Fry's sell refurbished and repackaged computers.

[Warpnow]

I don't know why they check for Windows. I would hope they re-image the disk before they resell it. They don't know what may have been installed while you had it.

They probably reimage it from the restore partition, which you may or may not wipe when you install linux.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

I know that it is not just Best Buy that wants Windows intact for a return or warranty repair. Why, I don't know. What they do with returned computers is off-topic for this thread and speculation on my part at least. It is time for me to try to stay on-topic. :)

[squakie]

Actually, you'd be surprised at how many devices do NOT get reset upon return. There have been many instances of this in the past.

However, I think everyone is agreeing with my original reply:

- when you get a new PC, IMMEDIATELY follow the manufacturers process for creating restore disks. If you have those, you normally don't have to worry about partitions, etc., since you can use these disks when you replace a hard drive. The entire point is to restore it to how it was delivered via those disks prior to attempting a return.

[forrestcupp]

If you take the time to make the 5 or so restore discs on windows BEFORE wiping it out and replacing with ubuntu, then by running those discs, an identical image will be restored to the computer as you received it from the store, crapware and all...the geek squad in Best Buy would have no way of knowing that anything had ever been altered or changed...That is what i did and that is why i had absolutely no problems returning it and getting a refund...they got back EXACTLY what was given to me in the first place...

But will doing a system restore actually restore the partitions, too? Or will it just reinstall everything on the main partition that you have available?

[craig10x]

It wipes the disc clean and restores windows and it's original partitions just as it came when you opened the box originally...but the key point is making the discs....if you had to send it in to say toshiba (assuming that was the brand you bought) for service, you'd want to do it then too...don't think they would like receiving a computer for service with ubuntu installed on it...so the discs are a MUST...I have mine for the Toshiba 17" laptop i am typing on right now...and all i have on here is ubuntu 14.04...

Of course, if your hard drive went out...you wouldn't have to worry about it ;)

[kurt18947]

Have you ever taken a USB drive to Best Buy and asked to try a live Linuux on a pc before you bought it to make sure it worked? I did. After telling the sale person to get a tech they final let me try it. Before long I had a crowd gathered around and ended up giving a demo of Ubuntu. Got a lot of questions like, "where can I get a USB like that?" After answering the questions, I then showed them how to run it off the USB in a VirtualBox or VM. Told them to down load a program in Windows, "LiLi USB Creator" and it would setup the VirtualBox for them. Here are the screen shots.
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You insurgent You. :KS

[kurt18947]

It wipes the disc clean and restores windows and it's original partitions just as it came when you opened the box originally...but the key point is making the discs....if you had to send it in to say toshiba (assuming that was the brand you bought) for service, you'd want to do it then too...don't think they would like receiving a computer for service with ubuntu installed on it...so the discs are a MUST...I have mine for the Toshiba 17" laptop i am typing on right now...and all i have on here is ubuntu 14.04...

Of course, if your hard drive went out...you wouldn't have to worry about it ;)

It seems the risk would be if it wasn't the hard drive that failed but rather something on the motherboard, power regulation or something like that. If the warranty provider found Ubuntu or other O.S. on the hard drive and wanted to be difficult, could they take a position along these lines?


"We received your machine for warranty service. We found a failed power widget and replaced it. We then found an unapproved operating system installed. The unapproved operating system has not been tested on this machine and may permit/have caused power/thermal excursions beyond design limits of the power widget and caused its failure. Therefore warranty coverage is denied and the cost of the repair is $$$, payable now."


I don't know how likely the above scenario is but I've had experience with warranty providers being 'creative' in their denial of warranty repair. One way around this risk is to install a different hard drive in the new machine and install the non-standard O.S. on that. Then if there's a hardware issue, re-install the original hard drive before returning for warranty service. That may not be an inexpensive option though.

[aysiu]

If you take the time to make the 5 or so restore discs on windows BEFORE wiping it out and replacing with ubuntu, then by running those discs, an identical image will be restored to the computer as you received it from the store, crapware and all You can also run CloneZilla on it, and clone the entire drive (restore partitions and all) to an external drive.

[craig10x]

@aysiu: I wasn't aware of that...nice tip...i will have to look into that :D

[forrestcupp]

You can also run CloneZilla on it, and clone the entire drive (restore partitions and all) to an external drive.

Great point.

[aysiu]

Bonus on CloneZilla is that the size of the clone will be proportional to the used space on the drive (which, since it's a new computer, should be minimal).

[sudodus]

I started with Ghost, and learned to make compressed dd images with linux, found and used PING for some years, but it could not manage ext4, so I looked around and found Clonezilla, which is a great tool to make compressed images of drives.

Finally I would recommend that you test that you can restore your system from the image (a directory with several files). And to test it you need another drive of at least the same size as the original one.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

Finally I would recommend that you test that you can restore your system from the image (a directory with several files). And to test it you need another drive of at least the same size as the original one.

+1 That applies to any backup or disk imaging software. I have encountered quite a few people that found their backup solution wasn't doing what they thought it was doing.