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anaconda
April 8th, 2014, 05:06 PM
For your own legal safety.

In Ubuntu you don't really need antivirus, but and it is a big BUT. Nowdays many banks etc.. have rules, that say, if something goes wrong with your internet-bank you are responsible for your losses unless you have an updated antivirus-program on your machine

So for your own safety if you use a netbank or similar you indeed should have antivirus installed. (they don't understand the differences of windows and linux and coudn't care less.)

And one day, there will be active viruses for ubuntu too. and then you will be better protected if you already have a system, which can detect them.

Besides, why make it too tempting to make viruses for ubuntu, If a virus developer does get a ubuntu machine infected he/she can be relatively sure that the virus/trojan can function undetected for a looooooong time, that is, if majority of users do not have antivirus installed.

I recommend installing clamtk (antivirus which uses clamav)

Why not? It doesn't cost anything, doesnt slow your machine (like in windows) and only takes a few MB's from your disk...

Same thing with firewall. Except that iptables -firewall is already installed on all ubuntus.
I still prefer to install firewalld and firewall-applet on my system

Any thoughts?

stalkingwolf
April 8th, 2014, 05:16 PM
I have used clam tk for a couple years or more. There are viruses out there that can effect linux systems.

mamamia88
April 8th, 2014, 11:44 PM
For your own legal safety.

In Ubuntu you don't really need antivirus, but and it is a big BUT. Nowdays many banks etc.. have rules, that say, if something goes wrong with your internet-bank you are responsible for your losses unless you have an updated antivirus-program on your machine

So for your own safety if you use a netbank or similar you indeed should have antivirus installed. (they don't understand the differences of windows and linux and coudn't care less.)

And one day, there will be active viruses for ubuntu too. and then you will be better protected if you already have a system, which can detect them.

Besides, why make it too tempting to make viruses for ubuntu, If a virus developer does get a ubuntu machine infected he/she can be relatively sure that the virus/trojan can function undetected for a looooooong time, that is, if majority of users do not have antivirus installed.

I recommend installing clamtk (antivirus which uses clamav)

Why not? It doesn't cost anything, doesnt slow your machine (like in windows) and only takes a few MB's from your disk...

Same thing with firewall. Except that iptables -firewall is already installed on all ubuntus.
I still prefer to install firewalld and firewall-applet on my system

Any thoughts?
Um if my bank told me that crap I'd get a new bank.

WogBoy
April 8th, 2014, 11:48 PM
People who use the now unsupported Windows XP will find that if something happens to their account the banks and credit card companys will just say " sorry you are using an un secure system tell somebody who cares"
As we all know they will use any tiny detail to not have to pay up.


Um if my bank told me that crap I'd get a new bank.
And you may find that most if not all banks etc require you to have an upto date operating system with approved security installed.

Warpnow
April 8th, 2014, 11:57 PM
And you may find that most if not all banks etc require you to have an upto date operating system with approved security installed.

I've never heard this ever before and searching through several bank sites found no evidence of it.

1. How would they prove what antivirus you have installed?
2. How would they prove a virus was responsible?

They are legaly required to not hold fraud against you. Its theft, and is insured by the government as such from my understanding. Identity thieves steal your mail to get sensitive info but the bank can't argue you didn't put a padlock on your mailbox.

craig10x
April 9th, 2014, 12:45 AM
If banks did that, it would have to be specifically mentioned in the bank's disclosures and i have NEVER seen that...and if they added it on in more recent times, again...they would have to send you a supplementary notice stating it...
Have never received such from any of the banks and credit unions i have accounts with...and i doubt anyone else here can say they have gotten such a notification either...

SurfaceUnits
April 9th, 2014, 06:30 AM
here is a bank's mobile security statement





MOBILE BANKING Customer Education / Awareness

1. LOCK YOUR PHONE
“Lock” your phone with a PIN or security code, which makes it more difficult for others to access the device. If you leave your phone at the coffee shop or in your car and its stolen your data is safer.
2. DON’T SAVE PASSWORDS
Enter your password every time you need to access accounts rather than storing them automatically. When banking on your cell phone, it is essential to protect the data you access from it. Manually entering user Ids and passwords might be more time-consuming, but you’ll thank yourself if your phone is ever stolen.
3. SUBSCRIBE TO REMOTE WIPING PROGRAMS
Some phones have remote wiping services that can be used to erase all data if your phone is ever lost or stolen. Since banking on your cell phone can leave personal information on the device, these services create peace of mind.
4. LOOK AROUND
Don’t try banking on your cell phone in a crowded area where anyone could look over your shoulder. If you must do this in public, sit or stand with your back to a wall, and look up from time to time. This isn’t a foolproof method, but maintaining awareness of your surroundings will help protect sensitive data.
5. TEXT WITH CAUTION
Some banks allow you to communicate with them via text message, receiving alerts and account information. Keep in mind, however, that your bank will never ask you to send them personal information, such as your account or social security number via text.
6. DOWNLOAD WITH CAUTION
Banking on your cell phone is easy when your bank offers a free application that allows you to manage your accounts. But before you download an app, make sure it is actually created by and for your bank. Verify sources and go to the institution to get the app.
7. AVOID HACKS
There are tons of articles all over the Internet about how to hack phones, but this is a bad idea if you’re using mobile banking. Hacks create vulnerabilities in the security system of your phone, which could leave it open to hackers who wouldn’t have otherwise been able to gain access.
8. FOLLOW NORMAL SECURITY PROCEDURES
One of the dangers of banking from your cell phone is the ease with which you can access account features. It becomes second nature, an afterthought, and this is where people get in trouble. Follow basic security procedures whenever you us mobile banking features. Don’t give your passwords to anyone, use complex passwords, and store your phone in safe place.

SurfaceUnits
April 9th, 2014, 06:35 AM
same bank's online statement



Online Banking
Online Banking gives you more power as a banking customer than ever before! It's easy to use, and before long you'll be using it nearly every day. If you have any questions, call, email, or stop by and see us and we'd be happy to help you.

Keeping Your Information Safe
Our Online Banking is among the safest systems in the industry. After signing in, we provide a secure messaging system equipped with the strongest encryption available. Furthermore, our server is firewall protected.

mastablasta
April 9th, 2014, 09:30 AM
furthermore even the3 up0date antivirus software does not guarantee 100 % protection. there are many antivirus software with variosu degree fo detections of various malware. some might detect one version but not the other while others will detect the other but not the one detectable by previous antivirus.

clamav does not have high detection rate and often has false positives.

my bank also has additional proteciton where you need to type a code from messger encoded on paper if you transfer money to a new account. and that code you need ot type is unique each time you create new transfer.

an finally it's like blaming a customer when their safe deposit box was robbed because they werent there day and night to protect it themselves. we pay each month to the bank to keep our money safe. and that 's what they are expected to be doing . otherwise there is no point in putting money in a bank is there? i mean interest rates fur us commoners are usually garbage anyway...

monkeybrain20122
April 9th, 2014, 11:12 AM
In my school they have similar requirement to access the university's network, but it is understood that it is only for Windows. Mac and Linux users are not required to have any AV but Windows users have to install not just any Av, but Norton (I don't know how they check, but this is the rule)

I doubt that the banks are even thinking of Linux, as these institutions tend to assume that everyone uses Windows (now maybe Mac) These are the places where you can still find IE only online services.

Btw clamav (and all the AV installable on Linux for that matter) scans only for Windows virus, so the point of installing it is what?

monkeybrain20122
April 9th, 2014, 11:19 AM
People who use the now unsupported Windows XP will find that if something happens to their account the banks and credit card companys will just say " sorry you are using an un secure system tell somebody who cares"
As we all know they will use any tiny detail to not have to pay up.


And you may find that most if not all banks etc require you to have an upto date operating system with approved security installed.

They can and should ban XP, period.

SurfaceUnits
April 9th, 2014, 12:49 PM
This is bogus. Every web browser at the recent "hack our browser" gathering was compromised in short time.

Bank of America's Remote Check Deposit

What are the system requirements for Remote Deposit Online? The standard Digital Check CheXpress scanner or any compatible scanner will run on Microsoft Windows XP, Vista or Windows 7 & 8 and Macintosh (Mac) 10.8.2.

Minimum Requirements:

Windows XP or Windows 2000 (32-bit only) Service Pack 3 or higher
512 MB memory
1.6 GHz Pentium III
1.5 GB free space on hard drive required to install or operate
100 Kilobits per second upload speed
Microsoft Vista (32-bit or 64-bit) Service Pack 1 or higher
1 GB memory
1 GHz Pentium III
1.5 GB free space on hard drive required to install or operate
100 Kilobits per second upload speed
Microsoft Windows 7 (32-bit or 64-bit edition)
2 GB memory
2 GHz Pentium III
1.5 GB free space on hard drive required to install or operate
100 Kilobits per second upload speed
Microsoft Windows 8 (32-bit or 64-bit edition)
2 GB memory
2 GHz Pentium 4
1.5 GB free space on hard drive required to install or operate
100 Kilobits per second upload speed
Mac OSX 10.8.2 (Mountain Lion)
2 GB memory
Full 64-bit processor
1.5 GB free space on hard drive required to install or operate
100 Kilobits per second upload speed

Supported Web Browsers:

Microsoft Internet Explorer versions 7, 8, 9 and 10
Mozilla Firefox up to version 19




I don't see an anti-virus requirement in there

If you are a victim of identity theft, you are not legally responsible for any debt some Nigerian ran up

SurfaceUnits
April 9th, 2014, 01:49 PM
STOP USING THE INTERNET NOW!!!!!! I'm signing off forever after I post this


‘Heartbleed bug’ threatens web traffic

By Hannah Kuchler in San Francisco

A flaw has been discovered in an encryption method used on about two-thirds of all websites, including Google (http://markets.ft.com/tearsheets/performance.asp?s=us:GOOG), Amazon (http://markets.ft.com/tearsheets/performance.asp?s=us:AMZN), Yahoo (http://markets.ft.com/tearsheets/performance.asp?s=us:YHOO)and Facebook (http://markets.ft.com/tearsheets/performance.asp?s=us:FB), potentially exposing web traffic, user data and stored content to cyber criminals (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b3049218-abbc-11e3-90af-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=intl).



High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs (http://www.ft.com/servicestools/help/terms) and Copyright Policy (http://www.ft.com/servicestools/help/copyright) for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/89c12940-bf42-11e3-a4af-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz2yOQTd2k9


The “heartbleed bug” (http://heartbleed.com/) was found in the OpenSSL software by a team of security engineers last week, leaving technology companies scrambling to fix their systems before it was announced on Monday night.

www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/89c12940-bf42-11e3-a4af-00144feabdc0.html

SurfaceUnits
April 9th, 2014, 04:07 PM
Well I had signed off forever but I saw this and needed to report it

Security issues with TCP/IP reassembly (http://go.techtarget.com/r/28060302/16947326) An obscure process called TCP/IP reassembly may pose an enterprise network security risk. Learn about this TCP/IP packet format security issue. (SearchSecurity.com (http://SearchSecurity.com))

Now i'm signing off forever

Elfy
April 9th, 2014, 06:19 PM
Do you want us to disable your account?

mattlach
April 9th, 2014, 06:19 PM
It's generally a good idea to run AV every now and then, even if on Linux and you don't think you are vulnerable.

I run ClamAV every once in a blue moon just to make sure I haven't downloaded anything. It may be very unlikely (though not impossible) that my Linux box would be affected, but I also share files with windows users, and run a Windows VM for programs that won't run inn Linux.

We can't continue to rely on security by obscurity forever. That was the mistake Apple made.

monkeybrain20122
April 9th, 2014, 07:43 PM
It's generally a good idea to run AV every now and then, even if on Linux and you don't think you are vulnerable.

I run ClamAV every once in a blue moon just to make sure I haven't downloaded anything. It may be very unlikely (though not impossible) that my Linux box would be affected, but I also share files with windows users, and run a Windows VM for programs that won't run inn Linux.

Well then let the Windows users install AV on their ends, and install AV in your VM guests.


We can't continue to rely on security by obscurity forever. That was the mistake Apple made.

You think it is just because of obscurity that Linux is more secure? This is a most persistent myth.

mattlach
April 9th, 2014, 08:06 PM
You think it is just because of obscurity that Linux is more secure? This is a most persistent myth.

It's not just obscurity that is the reason. There are many factors, including more eyeballs on open source code, more transparency regarding bugs and fixes, a more sound fundamental user and permissions design from the ground up, etc. etc. but no system is invulnerable.

Obscurity is a pretty big part of the advantage these days - however - as Windows has come a long way in fixing the fundamentals. UAC starting with Vista was a HUGE leap forward. Of course, most people don't use it properly (running all their day to day stuff in an administrator account...)

If it's on a network, it can be compromised (or as Stuxnet taught us, it doesn't even have to be on a network) regardless of platform, or operating system particulars.

monkeybrain20122
April 9th, 2014, 08:11 PM
If it's on a network, it can be compromised (or as Stuxnet taught us, it doesn't even have to be on a network) regardless of platform, or operating system particulars.

Running AV is not likely to help, especially if your AV scans for Windows virus (like clamAv)

mattlach
April 9th, 2014, 08:18 PM
Running AV is not likely to help, especially if your AV scans for Windows virus (like clamAv)

Well, yes, ClamAV's definitions are for Windows viruses (as those are what people know about) but if - however unlikely - a Linux one were to pop up, I'm sure it would make it's way into the ClamAV definitions. And it still helps protect my Windows VirtualBox VM.

monkeybrain20122
April 9th, 2014, 08:28 PM
Well, yes, ClamAV's definitions are for Windows viruses (as those are what people know about) but if - however unlikely - a Linux one were to pop up, I'm sure it would make it's way into the ClamAV definitions. And it still helps protect my Windows VirtualBox VM.

There are cross platform exploits that would compromise Linux systems, but those are not 'viruses', rather more general malware often activated through social engineering or other system vulnerabilities. No AV will protect you from that (speaking of which an openssl security hole was discovered a few days ago and it was immediately patched with an Ubuntu update, keeping system up to date is more important than running any AV for security IMO)

As for VM and sharing files, I refuse to do anything on my Linux end to babysit Windows. I configure my system for performance and space based on my Linux use cases, not considerations of Windows. I have Win7 in VM which I only use once in a blue moon, and I run an av there just in case. But I wouldn't install any 'protection' on my Ubuntu system proper because of it, the point about VM is that it does its things on a more or less isolated box.

buzzingrobot
April 9th, 2014, 09:26 PM
... I refuse to do anything on my Linux end to babysit Windows.

Same here. Inevitably, most of my email exchanges are with Windows users. If they are using an AV to scan their mail, my use of ClamAV would be a moot point. If they aren't using an AV, they own that risk.

SurfaceUnits
April 9th, 2014, 11:16 PM
Do you want us to disable your account?

Not necessary Good Buddy. I got my ears on and my CBoIP coming at ya, loud and proud
I'm unhackable.



Posted from my Browning Sabre on Channel 9

rrnbtter
April 10th, 2014, 07:10 PM
Greetings,

This is bogus. Every web browser at the recent "hack our browser" gathering was compromised in short time.

Bank of America's Remote Check Deposit

What are the system requirements for Remote Deposit Online? The standard Digital Check CheXpress scanner or any compatible scanner will run on Microsoft Windows XP, Vista or Windows 7 & 8 and Macintosh (Mac) 10.8.2.

This is all interesting but I can deposit a check with my Bank of America apk on my Android Tablet, and don't need a scanner. A box appears on the screen, the camera activates and you point the camera at the check and align it with the box on the screen and click. Then do the same with the other side. Enter the required info and make deposit.

SurfaceUnits
April 10th, 2014, 07:34 PM
^^That eqipment is for business accounts with multiple locations.
BTW What antivirus are you running on the tablet?

rrnbtter
April 10th, 2014, 08:26 PM
Greetings,
@SurfaceUnits
I'm using 360 AV on a 10" Hannspree with front and rear cameras. Also, looking back at your post it does appear to imply commercial. Sorry for the confusion.
IMO the safety in Linux comes from the locked root and the channel software. Once you leave that safety net you are on your own. To my knowledge there has only been thirty-five viruses written for linux since it's inception. Half of those were written by college labs as experiments. Other than the one being discussed in this thread there hasn't been one reported since 2006. You could say that the variety of linux versions has something to do with it but more than likely a secure root password will do the job. I have intentionally opened Windows viruses in my email and they just lock-up. Exe's don't work in Linux too well.

SeijiSensei
April 10th, 2014, 08:55 PM
If banks did that, it would have to be specifically mentioned in the bank's disclosures and i have NEVER seen that...

I checked the Terms of Service for my bank's online services. The only mention of antivirus appears in the usual list of disclaimers for the service provider itself. They do not warrant that their online banking site will not download malware to your machine, and if it does, they are not responsible. There is nothing in the agreement that imposes any responsibility on the customer to have antivirus installed.

craig10x
April 10th, 2014, 10:47 PM
+1 SeijiSensei...exactly...have never seen anything directed at the customer as far as requirements on his/her side of the equation...

silex89
April 11th, 2014, 02:10 PM
I had a few problems with my bank in the past concerning online services. They often asked me if I was doing my online banking in a "good" machine with a "good" antivirus. I said to them I was using Linux (Arch at the time) and that I was doing my online bank movements on a virtual machine (linux based, of course ;) ) with a tuned-up version of Firefox on top of it that had add-ons and extensions that would ensure me a reduced risk index when performing operations. So they had to accept my computer was not the problem, but the thing they tried to make me understand is that there's threat all the time, no matter what type of OS or software you run. Virtual machines help to some extent for a paranoic person like me, but really that doesn't do anything else than just make me "feel" safe.

The same applies for an "ultrasecured" Windows system or some Apple system in the software perspective...

SeijiSensei
April 11th, 2014, 04:46 PM
So they had to accept my computer was not the problem, but the thing they tried to make me understand is that there's threat all the time, no matter what type of OS or software you run.

I'd be a bit skeptical of the opinions of the bank's staff. First, their job is to protect the bank from any type of litigation so their primary responsibility is to put the blame for any problems on you. Heartbleed shows that there certainly is "threat all the time," but to be honest I trust my PCs more than I trust most corporate systems. The last couple of days have seen a number of comments (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/11/business/security-flaw-could-reach-beyond-websites-to-digital-devices-experts-say.html?hp&_r=0) from companies like Cisco and Juniper that some of their products may be affected by Heartbleed. I can fix my own machines, but how can I know that the products on the other end of the connection are secure? And what kind of time frame are we talking about when it comes to overhauling proprietary systems on large corporate networks?

silex89
April 11th, 2014, 06:52 PM
I'd be a bit skeptical of the opinions of the bank's staff. First, their job is to protect the bank from any type of litigation so their primary responsibility is to put the blame for any problems on you. Heartbleed shows that there certainly is "threat all the time," but to be honest I trust my PCs more than I trust most corporate systems. The last couple of days have seen a number of comments (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/11/business/security-flaw-could-reach-beyond-websites-to-digital-devices-experts-say.html?hp&_r=0) from companies like Cisco and Juniper that some of their products may be affected by Heartbleed. I can fix my own machines, but how can I know that the products on the other end of the connection are secure? And what kind of time frame are we talking about when it comes to overhauling proprietary systems on large corporate networks?

^This. I completely agree with you. I couldn't say it better. I just learned about the Heartbleed bug on OpenSSL. The infrastructure implied in most bank's servers makes hard to see (or trust) they'll fix the issue, assuming they run a Linux-based server....

Kind Regards :)

SeijiSensei
April 11th, 2014, 08:53 PM
Actually, as I said, I'm more concerned about proprietary appliances that use the OpenSSL code. There aren't many banks using Linux, if any. Cisco routers are ubiquitous.

buzzingrobot
April 11th, 2014, 10:10 PM
...Cisco routers are ubiquitous.

Long list of affected products in this Cisco advisory: http://tools.cisco.com/security/center/content/CiscoSecurityAdvisory/cisco-sa-20140409-heartbleed.

SurfaceUnits
April 11th, 2014, 10:48 PM
The same applies for an "ultrasecured" Windows system or some Apple system in the software perspective...

I'm testing SpyWareBlaster's, SpybotS&D's, and ASC7's immunizations on an XP machine with BitDefender Free to see how they stand up over time.

xxx6
April 13th, 2014, 07:23 PM
There are viruses out there that can effect penguin systems

Do not think so 'pal'(thus between qm) !!!

simply paranoid...or...fud...who knows?

Khakilang
April 16th, 2014, 05:07 AM
I use anti virus on Linux is not just to scan Linux virus but Windows virus since I copy a lot of files to Widows installed computer and also my notebook is connected to the company's network. You cannot be sure if a Windows virus is lurking in your Linux computer waiting to pounce on a Windows PC.

QDR06VV9
April 16th, 2014, 01:50 PM
I use anti virus on Linux is not just to scan Linux virus but Windows virus since I copy a lot of files to Widows installed computer and also my notebook is connected to the company's network. You cannot be sure if a Windows virus is lurking in your Linux computer waiting to pounce on a Windows PC.
+1 I also use anti virus for that same reason.

SeijiSensei
April 16th, 2014, 11:47 PM
You can avoid that problem by not using Windows clients, of course.

matt_symes
April 17th, 2014, 11:56 AM
You can avoid that problem by not using Windows clients, of course.

Works for me™

:D