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CowPie
March 25th, 2005, 07:17 PM
I think the forums might be too diffused now. I posted a desparate cry for help in repository support, but no replies... :( I know organization is a necessity, so I think merging the forums would be a good idea with a " [ network ] [repository] " for indicating network, repository, etc..

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=21981

ubuntu-geek
March 25th, 2005, 08:05 PM
Its only been a short time since you posted your question in the respository section. There isnt any dedicated staff on this site.. I'll go reply and lets see if we can get this worked out for you.

jdong
March 25th, 2005, 08:28 PM
Originally, that's what we were doing. However, threads would get buried 3 pages deep in a matter of hours, so we were forced to organize better.

Paul Sinnett
March 26th, 2005, 06:52 PM
I'm currently using the RSS feed to see new messages on multiple forums. But I think there are too many items comming in for one feed. Would it be possible to split up the RSS feeds similar to the forums? Then I can read only from the ones that interest me.

lothar_m
March 26th, 2005, 07:41 PM
I'm currently using the RSS feed to see new messages on multiple forums. But I think there are too many items comming in for one feed. Would it be possible to split up the RSS feeds similar to the forums? Then I can read only from the ones that interest me.

Very good idea.

Cyberkef
March 26th, 2005, 10:54 PM
Would it be possible to split up the RSS feeds similar to the forums? Then I can read only from the ones that interest me.
You can use something like this:
http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=rss2&forumids=48 (RSS of UbuntuForums Site Help only)

If you would like the content to be generated for multiple forums you can seperate the forumids by commas.
Or just make multiple rss links with different "forumids" in your rss reader of the forums you want to read :)

Hope this helps you out ;)

ubuntu-geek
March 26th, 2005, 11:14 PM
You can use something like this:
http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=rss2&forumids=48 (RSS of UbuntuForums Site Help only)

If you would like the content to be generated for multiple forums you can seperate the forumids by commas.
Or just make multiple rss links with different "forumids" in your rss reader of the forums you want to read :)

Hope this helps you out ;)
Thanks Cyberkef, saves me the time from posting the info :)

Paul Sinnett
March 27th, 2005, 02:47 AM
Cool, thanks for the tip.

Is there a list of which forum id belongs to which forum anywhere?

Also this only allows me to see new threads and not updates to existing threads. Is there another flag to get individual messages rather than whole threads?

Cyberkef
March 27th, 2005, 01:07 PM
Heh, no problem :D


Is there a list of which forum id belongs to which forum anywhere?

An actual list, no.
But you can get those ID's very easy :)

Each forum has a link in this style:

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=15 (this is Warty 4.10 FAQs & HOWTOs)

Just hover your mouse over the forums in the forumindex, and you can see the links in your statusbar!

The forumID is the number after the "f=" ;)


Also this only allows me to see new threads and not updates to existing threads. Is there another flag to get individual messages rather than whole threads?

I'm not sure about this, but I think there's no special flag to enable that :-k

bailout
March 28th, 2005, 01:10 AM
I was just coming here to post a similar thread so I will just add my second vote for fewer forum sections. Iknow the problem of too few but I think the segregation has gone too far and results in posts going unseen and unanswered. This will just result in people cross-posting the same question in different forums or using the more popular forums anyway.

There certainly doesn't seem to be the traffic to justify this number of seperate sections.

ubuntu-geek
March 28th, 2005, 03:49 AM
I would have to disagree. If we meshed everything into one huge forum we would still have the same problems. What it boils down to is, people don't read and don't post in the correct sections hence unanswered threads, people don't search to see if there has already been a solution to their problem hence duplicate and unanswered threads.

The reason Hoary and Warty sections are seperated is so we as moderators and visting end users can help others in a timely fashion. If we meshed Warty and Hoary questions into one huge forum can you imagine the chaos? I can.

As far as traffic, this forum generates almost 4 to 5 gigabyte of transfer daily, 300-400 users are online at almost all times and almost 13,000 users with around 2,000 unique forum members visiting daily.

It all goes back to the first things I mentioned. Read and Search.

We will not remove or merge any forums at this time as the current layout works and flows well.

Xian
March 28th, 2005, 04:10 AM
I posted a desparate cry for help in repository support, but no replies... :(
There really needs to be a visible link in the top bar for 'No Replies'. Perhaps right next to the 'New Posts' link that is already present and very useful.

Xian
March 28th, 2005, 04:20 AM
It all goes back to the first things I mentioned. Read and Search.
Totally agree with this point. However, using this LINK (http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=421963) I was able to pull up at least 500 threads that were started between today and 3/17 and have no replies. Taking into account the known issues that can result in many of these, that number is still just way too high considering the level of knowledge that is present at this forum.

Paul Sinnett
March 28th, 2005, 11:49 AM
I'm not sure about this, but I think there's no special flag to enable that :-k

I found a couple of threads on modifications to the vBulletin software. This one gives you more options for selecting what gets syndicated. This would be great for people like me who prefer to have forum activity from many different sources gathered in one place. It also makes it standards compliant (apparently the default one isn't.):

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=69834

And this modification allows browsers like Firefox to detect that the page contains an RSS feed and automatically displays a button to install it. A lot of news sites do this (the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk) have this feature, for example):

http://www.vbulletintemplates.com/mods/showthread.php?t=6996

Paul Sinnett
March 28th, 2005, 06:02 PM
There really needs to be a visible link in the top bar for 'No Replies'. Perhaps right next to the 'New Posts' link that is already present and very useful.

Good suggestion. Looks like somebody just added that feature. =D>

ubuntu-geek
March 28th, 2005, 07:44 PM
Still tweaking as some of these forums will have 0 replies and that is ok. Everyone has to understand just because there are unanswered threads it isnt a bad thing. Some threads don't warrant a reply.

Not to be a grump, but instead of this thread going on about unanwered threads why don't we all just pitch in a help some of these users :)

Paul Sinnett
March 29th, 2005, 06:19 AM
An actual list, no.


Okay, let's do something about that:


Announcements
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=17,13,20)



Official Ubuntu Announcements
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=17)



Security Announcements
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=20)


Ubuntuforums News & Updates
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=13)


Ubuntu Warty Warthog 4.10
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=15,31,12,40,30,27,42,5,10,9,14,8,18,19,43 )



Warty 4.10 FAQs & HOWTOs
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=15)

Warty 4.10 Application Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=12)



Desktop Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=40)

Ubuntu Gaming
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=30)

Stumper Questions
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=27)

Other application support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=42)

Installation Help
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=5)

AMD64-Bit Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=10)

PPC/Mac Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=9)

LIVECD Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=14)


Warty 4.10 Hardware Help
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=8)



Networking
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=18)

Laptop Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=19)

X.org / XFree86 Configuration
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=43)



Ubuntu Hoary Hedgehog 5.04
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=58,50,65,51,66,53,54,55,56,60,59,61,57,62 ,63,64,21)



Hoary 5.04 FAQs & HOWTOs
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=58)

Hoary 5.04 Application Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=50)



KDE (Kubuntu) Desktop
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=65)

Gnome Desktop
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=51)

Other Desktops
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=66)

Ubuntu Gaming
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=53)

Stumper Questions
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=54)

Other application support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=55)

Installation Help
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=56)

AMD64-Bit Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=60)

PPC/Mac Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=59)

LIVECD Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=61)


Hoary 5.04 Hardware Help
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=57)



Networking
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=62)

Laptop Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=63)

X.org / XFree86 Configuration
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=64)


Hoary Hedgehog Development Release
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=21)


Ubuntu Development
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=29)



Ubuntu Development Mailing List
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=29)


Other Ubuntu Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=41,6,45,7,39,44,16,46,47,67)



Ubuntu Repository Support
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=41)

Ubuntu Users Mailing List Thread
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=6)

Ubuntu Server Talk
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=45)

Security Issues
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=7)

Programming Talk
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=39)



Packaging and Compiling Programs
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=44)


Ubuntu Screenshots / Art Talk
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=16)

3rd Party Ubuntu Projects
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=46)



Ubuntu Backports Project
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=47)

Menu Editor Project
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=67)



Ubuntu Community Cafe
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=11,38,48)



Community Chat
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=11)

Community Market Place
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=38)

UbuntuForums Site Help
(http://ubuntuforums.org/external.php?type=RSS2&forumids=48)


:!: Note: I haven't tested them all

PS: I put this on the wiki too.

Xian
March 29th, 2005, 07:23 AM
Not to be a grump, but instead of this thread going on about unanwered threads why don't we all just pitch in a help some of these users :)
Good show on putting up the link to 'Unanswered Threads'. The easier we make it for people to find these, the better the chance that some of them might get resolved, or at least addressed positively. In a forum of this size it is important to have an outlet to find threads that need attention before they get buried. Hopefully an increased number of members will give this issue some degree of increased attention.

defkewl
March 29th, 2005, 08:51 AM
I agree with you. I think there are too many forums. Even I don't go through each of them

kassetra
March 29th, 2005, 05:56 PM
I agree with you. I think there are too many forums. Even I don't go through each of them

What we've done is simply separated Hoary questions from Warty questions because otherwise whichever version is the "Current" version will bury the other questions - and because the answers can and usually are different for the same question.

You don't have to go through each of them - you just find the one you want to help in or the one you want to ask a question in.

bailout
March 29th, 2005, 08:22 PM
you just find the one you want to help in or the one you want to ask a question in.

I think this is the problem, how people actually use forums rather than what seems to be a logical arrangement from an organisational pov. People rarely go to forums specifically to answer questions but just to browse. If they see a question they are interested in or know they can answer then they do so. With too many sub-forums there are just too few people browsing past topics and people will just go to the one or two sections they are interested in that day and miss questions in other forums that they could have helped answer.

To give an example, I browse a climbing forum and occasionally someone may post a computer question. I will see it and help if I can but if they had a dedicated computer forum on that site I wouldn't bother looking because I go there for climbing chat and elsewhere for computer stuff.

Obviously, there needs to be more than one forum here but I think there are too many small sub-forums that don't attract enough flow of browsers to get questions answered.

kassetra
March 29th, 2005, 09:00 PM
Obviously, there needs to be more than one forum here but I think there are too many small sub-forums that don't attract enough flow of browsers to get questions answered.

Well, I think we have the minimum number of forums we can possibly get away with... without having threads fly by at the speed of light.

So far, we don't have any problems with the number of sub forums, and I think it will start making a lot more sense when Hoary is officially released...

The forum arrangement isn't set in stone, but it is what we have chosen to go with for now. Obviously if we see problems, then we will talk about it and find some solutions, but for now, this is the way the forums will be arranged.

Paul Sinnett
March 29th, 2005, 11:14 PM
Well, I think we have the minimum number of forums we can possibly get away with... without having threads fly by at the speed of light.


I think you're both right. There are too many forums for people to easily find what they are looking for. But reducing the number of forums would actually make it more difficult. And the number of subscribers will probably swell again with the impending next release, so this problem isn't going away.

I think bailout is onto something with his example. I don't think it should be the primary purpose of these forums to solve problems - it should be a side effect. Maybe the forums should be split along different lines. Rather than trying to divide up people by their problems, we should divide them by their interests.

People with common interests will naturally work together to solve their problems. And once they have solved their problems, they still have their common interests so they might still be around when the next person comes along.

People with common problems will work together to solve their problems and then leave. After all, what is their to keep them around?

Something to think about anyway.

ubuntu-geek
March 29th, 2005, 11:17 PM
What would an ideal forum layout be to you based on the current on. I would like to see some peoples examples.

mark
March 30th, 2005, 04:20 AM
Unfortunately, I agree...there's too many divisions here. And, also unfortunately, I don't have a magic answer. I mean, how do you cover it all when you've got a realeased product (Warty), a soon to be released product (Hoary) and a "waiting-in-the-wings" product (Bendy)?

It may come down to having a heading for each of the releases (Warty, Hoary and Bendy, for example) and letting people drill down for the answers they're looking for. With the aggresive release schedule Canonical has committed to, it's a problem that will be on-going...

But, whatever you do, please maintain the "community" aspect - I continue to find the Ubuntu Community Cafe one of the most refreshing fora around...

Mark

panickedthumb
March 30th, 2005, 04:26 AM
This is one advantage Gentoo-ers have. Since there's no distinct release, they don't have to worry about this ;)

But as u-g said, we're taking suggestions, and trying to figure out the optimal plan. So suggestions are welcome if there are any.

Paul Sinnett
March 30th, 2005, 07:50 PM
What would an ideal forum layout be to you based on the current on. I would like to see some peoples examples.

That's a very good question. But one that, I think, very few people would be able to answer.

I can only answer your question by saying that I'd probably know it if I saw it. Not much use I know :sad:

But, I did once read about the problem of designing an efficient system of pathways for a new university campus which might help. The thing was, nobody could figure out an ideal system of paths and it was in danger of holding up the construction. So what they did was to postpone building the pathways until after the first term. They opened it in the winter, so the first time it snowed they took photos of the routes most of the students had been walking. Then they drew up their plans based on those routes.

Applying the same principle to these forums, what is that most interests the people here? The people in the best position to judge that are those of you who are moderators I think. So to turn the question around (in true consultant style ;) ) what subjects are most people talking about...?

jdong
March 30th, 2005, 08:12 PM
We are currently working on this issue in the background, and hope to roll out the new layout by Hoary's release.

Unregistered
April 8th, 2005, 11:59 PM
Great, thanks guys :) (plus my OTHER issue was fixed as well ;))

cowpie1
April 8th, 2005, 11:59 PM
Great, thanks guys :) (plus my OTHER issue was fixed as well ;))

sorry this was supposed ot be cowpie.