WOuld you buy a System76 laptop?

[cptrohn]

Or have you?

What would you say your experience was like as a customer? Build quality ect?

What are your thoughts?

[porcini_m.2]

Yes, I'm a happy customer:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2196805

[mips]

No, you can get the same thing for cheaper seeing as they just sell rebranded laptops.

[sammiev]

^
! +1

[1clue]

If they sold any good ones I'd consider it. As yet I haven't seen anything high-end from there at all.

[buzzingrobot]

Yes, if I wanted a laptop with those specs and if the warranty was worth the cost difference versus going the DIY route. Frankly, not having to worry about a vendor refusing to exchange a machine if it breaks one week after purchase because i put Linux on it would be comforting.

For years, the Linux community has said, "if only vendors preinstalled Linux...". Well, now a few are, and we should not expect them to be cheaper than a raw machine sans OS. The community already has enough of a reputation as a haven for cheapskates cloaking inside a blanket of ideology.

[Dave_L]

I bought a netbook from them three years that I'm happy with. The battery and charger are a little flaky, but I normally keep it connected to A/C power.

Be aware that they only support the latest Ubuntu release, and not the LTS version. So if you're using the LTS, and you ask for help with a problem, they're likely to tell you to upgrade to the latest version and see if that fixes it.

From their CEO:

And yes, please don’t worry too much about the guy that doesn’t want his computer to change for two years. He’s fictional if you really think about it.
http://carlrichell.com/post/44549453930/lts-should-die

[cptrohn]

If they sold any good ones I'd consider it. As yet I haven't seen anything high-end from there at all.

The Galago Pro sounds pretty nice though. Haswell Processor, Iris graphics.

[cptrohn]

Yes, I'm a happy customer:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2196805

I like it, actually that machine is the reason why I started this thread. I am thinking about getting one.

Have you tried any steam games with it? I am looking at it as an ultraportable desktop replacement.

Do you connect it to an external monitor by chance? I would love to try one out with one of the new 29" ultrawide monitors.

[porcini_m.2]

I like it, actually that machine is the reason why I started this thread. I am thinking about getting one.

Have you tried any steam games with it? I am looking at it as an ultraportable desktop replacement.

Do you connect it to an external monitor by chance? I would love to try one out with one of the new 29" ultrawide monitors.


I have not tried any games on it. Nor have I ever tried to attach an external monitor, so I tried just now, however it doesn't have a jack for the type of cable my monitor has. The only jacks it has for that is an HDMI port and another one I don't recognize - I'm attaching a photo.

[1clue]

The Galago Pro sounds pretty nice though. Haswell Processor, Iris graphics.

I'm sorry, I'm 48 years old. A 1080p monitor is awesome, but 14 inches is ridiculous. I want bigger screens. Plural. As in, can drive 3 or more 1080p or 1080x1200 monitors of at least 17", but preferably larger.

Frankly I haven't seen the laptop I would get next. I'm trying to figure out how to get non-mobile processing power and screens into a laptop bag. This would have the added advantage that I could actually build my system, which is one of the reasons a laptop sucks so bad.

[cessanfrancisco]

I would probably not buy one. I just can't justify the price tag when I can throw something together myself, with similar specs, at a fraction of the cost. Besides, I like getting under the hood and learning about computers through troubleshooting and making adjustments. And finally, I like the idea of reusing old hardware to lessen the impact on the environment, as well as not directly supporting Asian sweatshops.

[pqwoerituytrueiwoq]

I'm sorry, I'm 48 years old. A 1080p monitor is awesome, but 14 inches is ridiculous. I want bigger screens. Plural. As in, can drive 3 or more 1080p or 1080x1200 monitors of at least 17", but preferably larger.

Frankly I haven't seen the laptop I would get next. I'm trying to figure out how to get non-mobile processing power and screens into a laptop bag. This would have the added advantage that I could actually build my system, which is one of the reasons a laptop sucks so bad.
the intel GPU on the haswell CPUs is able to run 3 1080p displays for productivity purposes, inches don't matter only the resolution, you just need a laptop with enough display/hdmi/dvi/vga/mini-hdmi ports
i think most people who use 3 screens have room for a desktop

[cptrohn]

I have not tried any games on it. Nor have I ever tried to attach an external monitor, so I tried just now, however it doesn't have a jack for the type of cable my monitor has. The only jacks it has for that is an HDMI port and another one I don't recognize - I'm attaching a photo.
Thats a mini display port, you can get an external connection via HDMI, VGA or DVI using one. The place with the best prices to get 1 is monoprice.

SO you say it has an HDMI and a mini display port as well? Thats interesting to say the least. Hmmm.

[cptrohn]

I would probably not buy one. I just can't justify the price tag when I can throw something together myself, with similar specs, at a fraction of the cost. Besides, I like getting under the hood and learning about computers through troubleshooting and making adjustments. And finally, I like the idea of reusing old hardware to lessen the impact on the environment, as well as not directly supporting Asian sweatshops.

I work on computers everyday for a living. I'm the exact opposite, I DON'T want something to work on at home.

[cptrohn]

the intel GPU on the haswell CPUs is able to run 3 1080p displays for productivity purposes, inches don't matter only the resolution, you just need a laptop with enough display/hdmi/dvi/vga/mini-hdmi ports
i think most people who use 3 screens have room for a desktop

Actually thats one of the frustrating things about Linux\Ubuntu is with the mutliple monitor support on laptops. PC's and Macs both work well with Display Link adapters that have their own video cards built in that run through USB 3.0 lettting you connect up to 6 displays as long as you have the ports to support it. Never been able to get one running with any Linux distro, even though Fedora touts they work out of the box (but has never worked for me personally)

[mdrag13]

Hm, not sure that their strategy about LTS is a plus ...supporting rolling releases and agile development principles might not fit users which don't need latest & greates features, but seek a stabile platform that requires a minimum of maintenance over a longer period of time ..

[cptrohn]

Hm, not sure that their strategy about LTS is a plus ...supporting rolling releases and agile development principles might not fit users which don't need latest & greates features, but seek a stabile platform that requires a minimum of maintenance over a longer period of time ..

I agree with that, I stayed on 12.04 for years and just recently updated to 13.10 to get familiar with newer features so that I can prepare for 14.04.

From what I have been reading though the 6 mos release cycles at Ubuntu are probably ending soon though.

[pqwoerituytrueiwoq]

I work on computers everyday for a living. I'm the exact opposite, I DON'T want something to work on at home.but a home built PC can look pretty cool
249415
BTW if that is how you feel can i have your job then you will have no issue making your own pc

Actually thats one of the frustrating things about Linux\Ubuntu is with the mutliple monitor support on laptops. PC's and Macs both work well with Display Link adapters that have their own video cards built in that run through USB 3.0 lettting you connect up to 6 displays as long as you have the ports to support it. Never been able to get one running with any Linux distro, even though Fedora touts they work out of the box (but has never worked for me personally)
most i ever used was 2 screens, which is as many as my intel sandy bridge laptop GPU supports

[rewyllys]

. . . . Be aware that they only support the latest Ubuntu release, and not the LTS version. So if you're using the LTS, and you ask for help with a problem, they're likely to tell you to upgrade to the latest version and see if that fixes it. . . .
ZaReason (http://zareason.com/shop/home.php) will sell yiou a laptop with any version of Linux that you want. So also do Emperor Linux (http://emperorlinux.com/), and their machines include Lenovo laptops.

[1clue]

the intel GPU on the haswell CPUs is able to run 3 1080p displays for productivity purposes, inches don't matter only the resolution, you just need a laptop with enough display/hdmi/dvi/vga/mini-hdmi ports
i think most people who use 3 screens have room for a desktop

Of course I have room for a desktop. That's not the point, I want to bring this thing with me.

If I had my way I'd have 6 monitors and still fit it into a laptop bag. I don't care if it has batteries or not, but 12 cores would be nice. And 64g ram.

[cptrohn]

Of course I have room for a desktop. That's not the point, I want to bring this thing with me.

If I had my way I'd have 6 monitors and still fit it into a laptop bag. I don't care if it has batteries or not, but 12 cores would be nice. And 64g ram.


This!

The desktop still has it's place in the world, but mobility is now and the way of the future. I'm currently on a custom desktop that I built but it's more than time to turn this into a server and get a high end laptop for mobility purposes for professional purposes etc and then just bring it home and dock it up to the monitors for the desktop experience.

[cptrohn]

but a home built PC can look pretty cool
249415
BTW if that is how you feel can i have your job then you will have no issue making your own pc

most i ever used was 2 screens, which is as many as my intel sandy bridge laptop GPU supports

heh heh,

You probably wouldn't want my job. I'm on call 24/7/365, it makes it hard to have a life.

[1clue]

I really don't understand what's wrong with the computer industry. The only computer that you can buy right off the shelf that really interests me is a Mac Pro, maxed out. That means 12 cores, 64g RAM and a 1T solid state drive with a high speed interface. And 20gbps IO, and support for 6 displays right out of the box. And you also almost have to consider a massive external RAID array too, with the 20gbps thunderbolt 2 interface.

Laptops are getting smaller, not bigger. Most of the people with money are my age: 50-ish. We don't see as well as we used to. What good is a 13-inch "retina" display? My retina does pretty well just seeing a 1920x1080 17" laptop screen anymore. Resolution is what I'd always hoped it would be, but the @$%@% laptop companies are making them so small you can't use them. I need to spread out.

Consider this: Go to laptopscreen.com or someplace similar, find a 1920x1080 laptop model with a nice big screen (or 1920x1200) and then buy 6 LCD panels. And then buy the display drivers for them, wire it all together and you could technically take something like a Mac Pro with you and fit it all into a large laptop bag. BTW newegg also has a 6-display graphics card for not all that much money. If you could find an equally impressive motherboard you could build the same thing, although I haven't seen anything 20gbps in the PC market yet.

If you do something like that, you could have your multi-monitor luggable and take the displays with you.

[grier-devon]

I am going to be buying my first system76 laptop here in the next two months maybe less just depending on when my tax return comes in. I have been relatively lucky with Ubuntu working on my computer in terms of everything "working out of the box" experience, my current Vaio works very well with Ubuntu, literally everything from the webcam to all the ports work out of the box. Now this year I had brought a few computers to Ubuntu for friends to family and this experience was not the same on newer computers. This is not to say Ubuntu is not supporting modern hardware but why would I want to work to get everything working or work to try and find another computer with the same level of compatibility as my current Vaio?

As for desktop it just depends on what kind of person are you, if we are talking about a person who builds there own stuff then it would probably be better to go through the forum to find supported hardware and build. But if your like me and feel comfortable with working on computer but you would rather just buy a pre-build then yes I would go system76 again.

A few reasons other then hardware compatibility for me considering system76 is 1, they do support the Ubuntu community and open standards as much as possible which is more then any other company you will find and 2, most of there computers are Sager which that company has a huge reputation for quality machines. I know a majority of the laptops are for sure sager.

[grier-devon]

1clue: Last time I checked the Mac Pro is more server then anything else, honestly 98% of people do not need a quarter of the hardware in the Mac Pro and when they do it is called a server, a high one at that point. Which there is your answer for what is wrong with the computer industry, not every OEM is going to offer hardware in a configuration like that on the personal computer when it is something that just does not sell cause a majority of the world hardly uses the computer for anything more then a web browser and mini games, <- This explains the explosion of Chromebooks and the Tablets industry.

EDIT: On another note why would System76 (our original topic) a company which has a smaller piece of pie then the rest of the market with being limited to Ubuntu build something as you describe which is even a smaller market? Your point does not make sense since I would bet 99% of the member of this forum wouldn't use a computer as you describe which yet proves why system76 is a good option to the Mac Pro unless we discuss needing servers.

[1clue]

@grier-devon:

You're right, of course, but some of us still use a computer for big stuff and want it to be transportable. I make heavy use of virtual machines, and worse yet I need to take those with me from time to time. I also have a big need for lots of desktop space, it seems that the more monitors I have the more I need.

I hate to buy another Apple product (I have this habit...) but AFAICT this is a pretty good buy. I know you can get the same chip on a board for less, but it's not that compact, and you don't get the I/O speeds. I wish thunderbolt 2 were common in the PC world, and that it had good Linux drivers.

[pqwoerituytrueiwoq]

heh heh,

You probably wouldn't want my job. I'm on call 24/7/365, it makes it hard to have a life.middle of nowhere, unemployed and single :(. grass is greener on the other side
i know i am a bit off topic, sorry for that.

as for the topic, the stuff system76 has is a bit too far on the high end, a Pentium dual core (or i3 on the high end) with a intel GPU is good enough for me when it comes to mobile hardware
as for desktops, i would not buy one from anyone too much fun to build your own :)

[1clue]

1clue: ...
EDIT: On another note why would System76 (our original topic) a company which has a smaller piece of pie then the rest of the market with being limited to Ubuntu build something as you describe which is even a smaller market? Your point does not make sense since I would bet 99% of the member of this forum wouldn't use a computer as you describe which yet proves why system76 is a good option to the Mac Pro unless we discuss needing servers.

I can't speak to the market for the nano-computer industry. That's not me. I might get a tablet at some point, but it would be only to enhance my normal computing, or maybe to be a fancy remote control.

Mac Pro is not just server hardware. The video section is awesome on these, and high end engineering workstations or video editing would be wonderful applications.

I can only describe what market I am part of, which is somebody who basically needs to take a whole IT department with him. For me, you're pretty much right: I mostly need virtualization servers, and maybe a compile farm. If I had a really snapping fast quad core workstation with lots of video support, augmented by a few virtualization servers, and everything with crazy fast networking that would fill my bill nicely.

Getting back to the topic, if System76 offered a laptop that I considered adequate, I would most certainly buy one there. Desktop systems, not so much. I tend to be pretty fussy about my hardware and generally have disagreements with whoever built the prefab stuff.

[grier-devon]

@1clue: I get it I am just saying there is nothing wrong with the industry as you asked which was what I was talking about in my last post. I could see your point on desktop space since I dual monitor when I am home with my laptop with an external 21.5" LCD. This is no reason though to dismiss system76 since if people need a laptop with desktop space then they could go with.....
Kuda Professional $1878
17.3" 1080p Full High Definition Matte Display ( 1920 x 1080 )
4th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-4900MQ Processor ( 2.8 GHz 8MB L3 Cache - 4 Cores plus Hyperthreading )
16 GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz - 2 X 8 GB
240 GB Intel 530 Series mSATA Solid State Drive
1 TB 7200 RPM SATA II
8X DVD±R/RW/4X +DL Super-Multi Drive
Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 802.11 ac/a/b/g/n Wireless LAN + Bluetooth

Just like how the Mac Pro is rare in the PC industry here is a laptop which I could easily say 80% of Ubuntu users could not max out and this is a notebook which gives you portable performance that Apple can not. Does that mean there is anything wrong with Apple? No, but this is a perk to the PC market where I could make the fair argument that apple does not build a fair desktop replacement out of there laptops.

On a side note I would love this computer, talking about powers for days.

[andyfied]

I think that's a mini display port socket (standard on Apples). AFAIK it's the same as HDMI.

[RichardET]

System76 is interesting, and I almost bought one, but they are too expensive compared to an equivalent Windows machine, which I then reformat Linux. I was given a "new" "free" Lenovo B590 which is a core i3 2nd generation, with 4 GB RAM and a 320 GB HD, 15.5 inch screen, with UEFI BIOS. I added an extra 4 GB of RAM for $90 and reformatted it Ubuntu 13.xx; Works beautifully! An equivalent System76 would be about $800 easily.

ps: I bought my copy of Ubuntu - I am not a "cheapskate"!

[Dave_L]

System76 is interesting, and I almost bought one, but they are too expensive compared to an equivalent Windows machine, which I then reformat Linux.
...

In the past, I've installed GNU/Linux on computers that "came with Windows". There were always two or three issues that I was never able to completely resolve; not deal breakers, but minor or major annoyances.

So I decided that I would get a computer that had GNU/Linux preinstalled, with everything tested and guaranteed to work. I heard about System76. Even though the prices were a bit high, I decided it was worth the extra cost to avoid the aggravation of being stuck with a problem I couldn't solve.

[mips]

In the past, I've installed GNU/Linux on computers that "came with Windows". There were always two or three issues that I was never able to completely resolve; not deal breakers, but minor or major annoyances.

So I decided that I would get a computer that had GNU/Linux preinstalled, with everything tested and guaranteed to work. I heard about System76. Even though the prices were a bit high, I decided it was worth the extra cost to avoid the aggravation of being stuck with a problem I couldn't solve.

It's not hard to do a bit of googling beforehand to see how well linux runs on certain hardware for other people. I have zero issues with my hardware and i did not have linux in mind at the time of purchase.

[Dave_L]

It's not hard to do a bit of googling beforehand to see how well linux runs on certain hardware for other people. I have zero issues with my hardware and i did not have linux in mind at the time of purchase.

It's not that simple.

Reviews don't discuss every hardware component of a computer and every software feature.

A person may use Linux on a particular computer with no issues from his point of view. Someone else using Linux on the same platform may find that features that he needs don't work. That wasn't in the review because the first person doesn't care about those features.

And then there are combinations that you're not going to find in reviews. E.g., external drive model X connected to computer Y with graphics board Z and CPU upgrade W.

[grier-devon]

It's not hard to do a bit of googling beforehand to see how well linux runs on certain hardware for other people. I have zero issues with my hardware and i did not have linux in mind at the time of purchase.

Yeah and why not just support a company which support open source and Ubuntu anyway, so it cost you a little more but at least support a vendor who only supports our favourite operating system.

[mips]

Yeah and why not just support a company which support open source and Ubuntu anyway, so it cost you a little more but at least support a vendor who only supports our favourite operating system.

A little?

Secondly they take a product another company made, stick their badge on it after testing it with linux so I might as well buy the product from the manufacturer at a lower price.

People are free to choose what and whom they want to buy from, nobody should be 'guilted' into buying from anybody at a premium.

I would rather spend my money on other brands (Thinkpad, Asus, Dell) where I know what the build quality is like and I have next day on-site service for a period of 3 years if something fails, will System76 do this for me? This is definitely part of my future purchase requirements.

[1clue]

Oh come on.

It's really like this: If you accept whatever they install as usable, then you've simply paid them to install Ubuntu, and remove Windows-related badging from the box. And making sure everything works.

It's the same thing as hiring a computer guy to install it because you don't have the time. If that appeals to you, then system76 is good for you. If it doesn't then don't buy it. There's nothing wrong with the company doing what it does.

It also comes down to this: How much money do you make at your job? Can you research whatever laptop has compatible hardware, buy it, wipe it clean and install Ubuntu while paying yourself the wage you make, and come out cheaper than buying a System76 laptop? IMO the only way you could possibly answer yes to that while living in USA is if you are unemployed and not looking for a job. Even if you work for minimum wage, you're still going to take longer.

Consider this: It's probably not going to be just one wipe-and-install is it? You would try it, see how it works, want to change something and try it again. Maybe 6 or 7 times. That's how my Linux installs on new hardware typically go, before I get something I like.

[buzzingrobot]

There's an awful lot of overthinking in this thread. If someone wants to buy a System76 machine, what's the issue? Sure, you will pay a bit extra for the pre-installed Ubuntu. Given the never-ending river of posts here from people who can't get Linux installed correctly on their current hardware, I'd guess a lot of people would be happy to pay for that. (Unless their motivation for using Linux is that they don't need to pay for it.)

I've installed Linux on dozens of machines over the years. On a good many of those machines I would have been very happy to pay an extra $50-$100 to avoid hours noodling around trying to get everything working right. Money versus time is a calculation everyone makes.

While I think the notion of "supporting" businesses doesn't make much sense -- buy what you want -- it's a Good Thing for Ubuntu, and all of Linux, when small companies like System76 manage to stay alive selling pre-installed Linux hardware. People have been complaining for years about paying a Windows tax. Now, when machines can be bought with Linux on them, why cheap out?

The market System76 should be going after is not only Linux enthusiasts but also mainstream consumers who want to buy new hardware, don't want Windows again, and think they can't afford a Mac.

As far as I know, System76 buys OEM machines that don't have Windows installed.

[Roasted]

Last I looked at System 76, I compared identical specs to Lenovo and Dell.

If I recall...

System 76 - 960 dollars
Lenovo - 1,300 dollars
Dell - 1,100 dollars

Based on my findings (which are admittedly from a few months ago), that suggests that System 76 isn't a bad deal after all. Things may have changed, but if I were to buy a laptop, I'd probably go System 76 regardless. In recent years, I've had a tremendous amount of frustration with Lenovo. The very laptop I am typing from has a whitelisted wireless card. Come to find out... LOTS of Lenovos have whitelisted cards. Guess what? So does HP. Why on earth would I want to buy a laptop that doesn't allow me to replace the wireless card despite it being an insert-able chip like any other wifi card? When you boot up, it simply says unauthorized network card, please remove to continue.

I won't touch Lenovo again after that. Given the price comparison above, assuming it still stands true, I'd absolutely get a System 76 laptop.

[Roasted]

System 76 Galado UltraPro
Price (as customized) 1124.00
Ubuntu 13.10 64 bit
14.1" 1920x1080 IPS display
Intel Iris Pro Graphics 5200
4th generation i7 2.0 GHz
4GB DDR3 1600 MHz RAM
120GB Samsung 840 SSD
Intel BGN Wireless

Lenovo X1 Carbon
Windows 7 HP 64
Price (as customized) 1189.15
14.0 1600x900 LED backlit display
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Intel i5 2.7 GHz
4GB DDR3 1333 MHz RAM
128GB SSD
Intel BGN Wireless

So the Lenovo is a few bucks more, 8 GB more in the SSD (unsure of brand, but the Samsung 840 is pure <3 on the S76 unit), faster clock speed CPU but i5, not i7 (comparing dual core vs quad core there). Relatively comparable, and in fact, System 76 is a few bucks cheaper. I'm not overly familiar with Intel graphics, but HD 4000 vs Iris Pro 5200 makes me raise an eyebrow as well.




System 76 Gazelle Professional
Price (as customized) 902.00
15.6" 1920x1080 HD display
Intel HD Graphics 4600
4th gen i7 2.4 GHz
8GB DDR3 1600 MHz RAM
1TB 5400 RPM HDD
Intel BGN Wifi

Lenovo IdeaPad Y510p
Price (as customized) 899.00
Windows 8.1
15.6" 1920x1080 HD display
Nvidia GeForce GT755M
4th gen i7 2.4 GHz
8GB DDR3 1600 MHz RAM
1TB 5400 RPM HDD
Intel BGN Wifi

In this case, Lenovo is cheaper by 3 dollars. Lenovo has a GPU edge, but with the Lenovo having a change of being a whitelisted wireless card (and likely no upgrade path), that stacks on a -1 there. Pick and choose your battles, I suppose.




I'm sure there are cases where System 76 is indeed more expensive, but I can tell you this. Working with many of the big name tech vendors out there over the last few years, there is rarely a consistent "best bang for the buck" brand. It fluctuates from year to year. System 76 is no exception. I am however quite pleased with how nicely System 76 has stacked up in the handful of systems I compared. They are undoubtedly not "by default" more expensive. If you believe that, you need to look again.

[help_me2]

I would probably not buy one. I just can't justify the price tag when I can throw something together myself, with similar specs, at a fraction of the cost. Besides, I like getting under the hood and learning about computers through troubleshooting and making adjustments. And finally, I like the idea of reusing old hardware to lessen the impact on the environment, as well as not directly supporting Asian sweatshops.
Really? You're going to build your own laptop? Show us pics when you're done.

[help_me2]

System 76 Galado UltraPro
Price (as customized) 1124.00
Ubuntu 13.10 64 bit
14.1" 1920x1080 IPS display
Intel Iris Pro Graphics 5200
4th generation i7 2.0 GHz
4GB DDR3 1600 MHz RAM
120GB Samsung 840 SSD
Intel BGN Wireless

Lenovo X1 Carbon
Windows 7 HP 64
Price (as customized) 1189.15
14.0 1600x900 LED backlit display
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Intel i5 2.7 GHz
4GB DDR3 1333 MHz RAM
128GB SSD
Intel BGN Wireless

So the Lenovo is a few bucks more, 8 GB more in the SSD (unsure of brand, but the Samsung 840 is pure <3 on the S76 unit), faster clock speed CPU but i5, not i7 (comparing dual core vs quad core there). Relatively comparable, and in fact, System 76 is a few bucks cheaper. I'm not overly familiar with Intel graphics, but HD 4000 vs Iris Pro 5200 makes me raise an eyebrow as well.




System 76 Gazelle Professional
Price (as customized) 902.00
15.6" 1920x1080 HD display
Intel HD Graphics 4600
4th gen i7 2.4 GHz
8GB DDR3 1600 MHz RAM
1TB 5400 RPM HDD
Intel BGN Wifi

Lenovo IdeaPad Y510p
Price (as customized) 899.00
Windows 8.1
15.6" 1920x1080 HD display
Nvidia GeForce GT755M
4th gen i7 2.4 GHz
8GB DDR3 1600 MHz RAM
1TB 5400 RPM HDD
Intel BGN Wifi

In this case, Lenovo is cheaper by 3 dollars. Lenovo has a GPU edge, but with the Lenovo having a change of being a whitelisted wireless card (and likely no upgrade path), that stacks on a -1 there. Pick and choose your battles, I suppose.




I'm sure there are cases where System 76 is indeed more expensive, but I can tell you this. Working with many of the big name tech vendors out there over the last few years, there is rarely a consistent "best bang for the buck" brand. It fluctuates from year to year. System 76 is no exception. I am however quite pleased with how nicely System 76 has stacked up in the handful of systems I compared. They are undoubtedly not "by default" more expensive. If you believe that, you need to look again.

Oh stop it already. People don't want to hear logic. They just want to believe what they want to believe. I'm sure someone will come back with "yeah but....."

[RichardET]

Everyone can swap stories, but in Dec. 2012, I paid about $1200 for a Lenovo W530, 500 GB HD, 8 GB RAM, 2 GB NVIDIA KM1000 graphics, core i7 third generation. This laptop can handle up to 32 GB of RAM and I have since added two 8 GB sticks, so now I have 24 GB. I am still running Win. 8.1 on it due to the graphics card. I can run two or three VM's simultaneously, and my Win. 7 VM has 8 GB allocated. I run most Win programs on the VM. That way backups are a snap and I can simply swap the VM to another machine, and I am good to go, no re-installing of anything.

An equivalent laptop from System76 in that period was more than 1200, significantly, by about 400. Of course, prices vary and my 3rd gen. system is now "out of date" and cheaper by default.

Do they (System76) ever run sales with retail prices slashed 20-30%?

As far as Linux goes, I have 3 VM's and I allocate 4 GB of RAM to them - 2 Ubuntu 64 bit and 1 openSUSE.

[buzzingrobot]

.. in Dec. 2012, I paid about $1200 for a Lenovo W530, 500 GB HD, 8 GB RAM, 2 GB NVIDIA KM1000 graphics, core i7 third generation...

I bought a W530 with the KM1000 a few months earlier, from Lenovo's site during a sale, spec-ing it to work well with Linux. Maxed memory out to 32 gigs.

My intent, though, was to use Win8 for several weeks to help a photographer friend with large backlog of routine processing that needed to be done in Windows. I hadn't really used Windows in several years. The quality of font rendering was so bad, not to mention Win8's dual personality, that in less than a week I'd wiped Windows, disabled Secure Boot, installed Linux, and been happy since. It is a very nice machine. So much so that I cannibalized the drives in my homebrew box for use in a fat external unit and put the remains in the closet.

Everyone has a price point. If someone wants to spend no more than X, can get a System76 for X, and doesn't want to do a self-install, more power to 'em.

[RichardET]

On the W530, I have tried, successfully, using UEFI, both Ubuntu 13.10 and openSUSE 13.10, and the unit is fine as a native Linux system, but the windows NVIDIA graphics driver is better than the Linux version, without question. So I put 8.1 back on it at least for now. The thing about System 76 was they did not sell a laptop which could take 32 GB of RAM for $1200. The units in my price range, maxxed out at 16 GB, using on-board graphics; most home premium style windows laptops sold at cheap retailers max out at 8 GB;

[buzzingrobot]

I won't be putting Windows back on, so disabling Secure Boot (not synonymous with UEFI) makes sense. I don't game and usually run with Intel video. For my purposes, the Nvidia doesn't improve the display and usually, evevtually, adds hassles of some sort.

I do want to reiterate how broken font rendering was in Windows on this machine, on either video. Not just not to my tastes, but broken: mis-shaped characters, artifacts, etc. Can't believe MS or Lenovo would ship such rubbish.

[RichardET]

I won't be putting Windows back on, so disabling Secure Boot (not synonymous with UEFI) makes sense. I don't game and usually run with Intel video. For my purposes, the Nvidia doesn't improve the display and usually, evevtually, adds hassles of some sort.

I do want to reiterate how broken font rendering was in Windows on this machine, on either video. Not just not to my tastes, but broken: mis-shaped characters, artifacts, etc. Can't believe MS or Lenovo would ship such rubbish.

I am just curious - why buy the laptop using a KM1000, which comes standard with the W530, when you could buy say a T series without it and perhaps save money?

[corbin.loftis]

I would rather build my own computer for cheaper, and with more options. If you know how to build your own computer, then I think that's the way to go. I'm building one right now for my new main computer, inside a BitFenix Prodigy Mini-ITX case!

16GB RAM
4TiB Hard Drive
3.5GHz Intel i3 Quad-Core Processor
BitFenix Prodigy Case
Gigabyte H77N-WIFI Mini-ITX Motherboard

~$600

[RichardET]

sounds good, but is the i3 really quad core?

[mips]

sounds good, but is the i3 really quad core?

No. Dual core with 4 threads.

[buzzingrobot]

I am just curious - why buy the laptop using a KM1000, which comes standard with the W530, when you could buy say a T series without it and perhaps save money?


1. As I mentioned, it was purchased with the intent to run Windows temporarily where, presumably, the Nvidia would support image work better than onboard Intel. (And, in fact, the difference was apparent. It was the stunningly broken font rendering that sent me running away from Windows sooner than planned. I hadn't used Windows in about 10 years and the display of text seemed to have degraded considerably since then, and it wasn't good to begin with.)

2. I couldn't know if I'd perceive no difference between onboard Intel and Nvida in my use of the machine in Linux until I'd actually used the machine in Linux. (I've only done trivial photo work on the Intel, so far.) This is also the first Linux laptop I've owned. I've been running Linux on homebrew boxes with discrete video cards for a long time.

3. If I need the Nvidia in the future, it's there to use. (If Linux offered transparent switching between Intel and Nvidia as demand warrants, without user intervention, as in Macbooks, that would be great. I'll look at "Prime" in 14.04, but I believe it still requires the user to make the switch.)

[1clue]

I would rather build my own computer for cheaper, and with more options. If you know how to build your own computer, then I think that's the way to go. I'm building one right now for my new main computer, inside a BitFenix Prodigy Mini-ITX case!

16GB RAM
4TiB Hard Drive
3.5GHz Intel i3 Quad-Core Processor
BitFenix Prodigy Case
Gigabyte H77N-WIFI Mini-ITX Motherboard

~$600

So, where would you buy these parts? AFAICT they don't just sell laptop parts so you can assemble your own.

Remember that the word "laptop" is in the thread title, so obviously the original poster is looking for a laptop.

[punkboy22]

So i've been outta the loop forever but just looked this system76 up and i like it especially if your going to strictly use Ubuntu.

[buzzingrobot]

So, where would you buy these parts? AFAICT they don't just sell laptop parts so you can assemble your own.

Remember that the word "laptop" is in the thread title, so obviously the original poster is looking for a laptop.

While I'm sure it's been done, building a homebrew laptop does seem a bit of a stretch. Drives, cards, etc., though, used in laptops are available.

Building a mini-atx machine gets you a pretty small box populated with laptop-style hardware.

I've built several machines. I've never found the savings to be all that compelling, but they are there, especially if you are patient and wait for sales/specials to show up for the hardware you're after. To me, the benefit is the ability to use a hardware mix that PC vendors usually don't offer.

Buy about one year behind the bleeding edge and you shouldn't have much trouble with drivers and such. (Do the research, tho.)

[1clue]

The thread title says "would you buy a System76 laptop?" So why do people keep talking about building one? The OP is obviously after a laptop, either System76 or something else.

All this talk of building something else is just random noise proving that whoever said it didn't even read the thread title before posting to it. If you need a laptop, it's pretty hard to drag a desktop around.

I build all my desktops, wouldn't have it any other way because I usually have something extremely specific in mind. Laptops are a different story altogether.

[cptrohn]

I'll make my decision soon,

I don't get why everybody is talking desktop builds here either? If I wanted a new desktop I would just build one. I don't want a new desktop, I don't want an 8track player either.

[1clue]

Browsing around, that Bonobo Extreme looks pretty good if you choose the last option for pretty much everything.

It also has a Thunderbolt port, I wonder what sort of support is available on Linux for that right now? I know there's chatter, maybe I'll go read some of it.

Really, the only person you have to convince is yourself. Listen to too many other people and you won't be happy.

You're obviously open to the idea, so if you've price shopped other systems in the same category and the difference is not too big for you, then go ahead. Informed consent, and all that. To me it definitely makes a difference that everything has already been installed and made to work, even if I intend to wipe it off and start over. At least you go in knowing it all DOES work.

[neu5eeCh]

They've always been the first place I've looked when searching for a new computer for myself or others. But it seems that I (and those who've come to me for advice) are utterly out of sync with the marketplace (can I stress that enough?). Everyone, including me, had to go elsewhere to buy a Netbook (radioshack, best buy, amazon, etc...). Even though the netbook is supposedly dead, I've bought one this last year (Aspire One), and so have 7 separate individuals. My wife *loves* her netbook (HP) and others are always asking where she got it and wish they could find one. I even had one woman buy a discontinued MeeGo laptop so I could install Xubuntu on it!

But yes, if System76 ever sold what I wanted, I would buy from them. Someday when I need to replace my one high-end laptop (which isn't so high end anymore) I'll seriously consider S76. You know, something like the <saliva>Bonobo extreme</saliva>.

[WinterMadness]

I bought one a couple years ago, and I really didn't like it. Granted, things may have changed but I had a panp7, and the touchpad would just go crazy at times and the mouse would just go all over the screen randomly despite me not moving my finger, the buttons near the touch pad were so hard to press that I wasnt sure if I was pressing on the button or the laptops case, the plug is proprietary or very uncommon (universals dont work on it) and it came with dead pixels, and they wouldnt replace it. I had another screen issue that resulted in a new screen that get this... had dead pixels...

EDIT: I also forgot to mention how the second ram slot was broken. I wanted to upgrade the ram on it, only to open it up to find that the top ram slot couldnt hold the stick, bottom one obviously worked otherwise the computer wouldnt run.

I WOULD buy a desktop from them because thats just a matter of hardware, which they clearly are fine with, but its the little things that add up where system76 fails in my opinion. For linux laptops, I'd go with zareason.